Playing with .38 Super in a 1911 pistol

[dano440]

Hello all,

I have been playing with a 38 Super 1911 with Cast lead bullets and was wondering if anyone else was or has been down this road. So far I have messed with 115 gr round nose bullet, 125 gr round nose bullet and 125 truncated cone bullet. I was using 700-X powder but was having pressure issues with it, and now I have switched over to Unique powder. I have not seen any stellar accuracy with any of my loads, the barrel has about 500 to 600 round though it so far, frame and slide has close to 1000 rounds fired through it. all of the bullet dia. have been .356". I seen some heavier bullets (example 147 gr. and 158 gr.) with dia. of .357" but I have not ventured down this path yet. So far with 125 gr. I have been up and down the whole scale with loads of unique and 5.6 gr. shot the best but it needs to be a lot better (note: loads were stepped in 0.1 increment) Also I have been very cautious about over all length (note: no to exceed 1.280").

Does anyone have any information or experiences they would like to share?

[dano440]

Additional information I have slugged the barrel and it was .355" all the way down, no noticeable loose areas in the travel while slugging the barrel. barrel is 5" and is a ROTO barrel. I know they are not of the highest grade but should be capable of hitting 10" plates and 30 yards consistently.

[dano440]

Yes I have done some searches on this site for "38 super", and just "super" with very little luck.

[KCSO]

I have a 38 Super Taurus 1911 that is VERY accurate and (suprise) 100% reliable. I have been shooting a 140 grain rn bullet from an old Ideal mould. Cast from 1/2 and 1/2 lino and WW the bullet runs 138 grains and is very accurate in the Taurus. I can shoot it as low as 950 fps with no loss of function and can push it up to 1200 with just a little leading for a max load. II like the heavier bullet a lot better than the lighter 9MM bullets II have tried. I size it ti exactly .357 for the Taurus .356 bore.

[bob208]

i think it was george note that found out it was better to have the supper headspace on the mouth like a .45 rather then headspace on the rim like it does now.

[dano440]

my barrel headspaces off the mouth rather than the rim. my cases are 38 super comp. they are rim less, (the semi-rim has been turned down) I trim my cases as soon as they make max trim length. that normally 3 to 4 firing some times longer pending on the load.

most of my bullet are around 15 to 18 br hardness

this 1911 was built from ground up. everything fitted slide & frame to all the components that went in to it, the only standard / generic part is the barrel and its not really off the shelf any more the lugs have been fitted, ramp polished, nation match bushing (hand fitted), muzzle dressed out, chamber touched up. This gun should (note: should) shoot like a house a fire, it just hasn't shown me that yet.

[rond]

I use Longshot and Lil Gun, 700X works well for me in 9mm but not 38 super.

[Grandpas50AE]

I use Lil Gun for jacketed, but for cast I use SR4756 - it is a really great powder for mid-range loads in .380 all the way up to .45 ACP in those ACP-type casings. My Kimber .38 Super is very accurate with cast boolits of 140gr. and 147gr. but I never found anything below 130gr that it would shoot well, cast or jacketed. After working up a target load with Penn hard-cast boolits in 147gr. TC, I decided I wanted a SWC for hunting/defense and got a mold from Accurate Molds for 140gr. SWC. The 16BNH from straight ACWW was too hard for my use, so I softened the mixture to about 12 by going 75/25 COWW to pure pb and 2% tin. Unfortunately the barrel had machine marks originally, and all cast boolits were leading some, so I am having the barrel replaced and will have to wait to resume load development.

[bobthenailer]

I have 2, 1911s in 38 super one with a Nowlin and the other with a Kart barrel both prefer bullets sized @.357 dia even though they slug @ .355 dia.

As far as cast bullets go i have 4 to choose from 125 to 145 gr, in general the TC nose profile is more accurate than RN and usually cast bullets in the 125 gr and higher are the most accurate.

Powder ! i have found ive gotten my absulate best accuracy with med fast to med burn rate powders such as WSF, WAP, HS6 & Powerpistol. the faster powders will work but not quite as accurate .

I have used WWsurplus 820 and LILgun as well with excellent results , they are really good for blasting out the lead buildup in the compensator! but use a higher # rated recoil spring when using.

[dragonrider]

I use to use W540 about 17 years ago, it has been discontinued I think.

[dano440]

I use Longshot and Lil Gun, 700X works well for me in 9mm but not 38 super.

I found this to be true for 700x, what do you think of the powder Lil Gun for cast bullets?

[dano440]

from the most of the opinions I think I need to get a pound of Lil Gun and start trying it out, Sounds like I might be missing out on something here.

also sound like 130 grain or heavier seems to have some merit too.

sound like trip local shop to get some powder and a date with the lead pot casting some heavier bullets. (my wife will be happy... not)

thanks for the info.

[0verkill]

I've had better luck with heavier bullets. Lil' gun's been pointed out and I agree it's a good powder for the super. HS-6 has also performed well, but never near max, at least for me.

[barkerwc4362]

I use AA-7 in my Barsto barreled Commander. But I also shoot bullets on the heavier end of the spectrum. The lightest I shoot is the 133gr Lyman SWC. The heaviest has been the RCBS 158gr SWC GC. I also shoot the SAECO 145gr SWC, Lyman 147gr, and the RCBS 150gr SWC. I use some old Midway Super brass and Starline Super Comp brass.

Bill

[dano440]

I use AA-7 in my Barsto barreled Commander. But I also shoot bullets on the heavier end of the spectrum. The lightest I shoot is the 133gr Lyman SWC. The heaviest has been the RCBS 158gr SWC GC. I also shoot the SAECO 145gr SWC, Lyman 147gr, and the RCBS 150gr SWC. I use some old Midway Super brass and Starline Super Comp brass.

Bill

did you have to modify your extractor for the comp brass?

[bobthenailer]

Ive run 38 and 9mm super comp brass as well as 9x23 , 9mm largo , 38 TJ with no problems or modfications to either pistol.

[xacex]

I have been looking at those barrels you mentioned. The 38 super I have has a 9mm barrel I put in it because my feet are wore enough that the slide goes to far forward. The thought of welding a little to the feet to grind back down to fit has crossed my mind. Never having welded on a 1911 barrel has me apprehensive, but I did build the gun like you, from scratch and would like to do all work myself. Tig, and mig are in my shop, and it sounds like the mig would work better for a small tack of metal. The ROTO barrels are the other option, but I haven't heard much good, or bad. But if you cant get this thing to shoot it looks like I may start practicing my barrel welds. Is your chamber loose enough to fit 9x23 in? The barrel I have fits 9x23 loose, and 38 super tight, but it is not marked. Same carbonara blue that was on the colt slide.

[dano440]

Ive run 38 and 9mm super comp brass as well as 9x23 , 9mm largo , 38 TJ with no problems or modfications to either pistol.

Why I was asking on starline's website it say you might have to modify your extractor. so when you said you were using their comp bass I was curious .

[dano440]

I have been looking at those barrels you mentioned. The 38 super I have has a 9mm barrel I put in it because my feet are wore enough that the slide goes to far forward. The thought of welding a little to the feet to grind back down to fit has crossed my mind. Never having welded on a 1911 barrel has me apprehensive, but I did build the gun like you, from scratch and would like to do all work myself. Tig, and mig are in my shop, and it sounds like the mig would work better for a small tack of metal. The ROTO barrels are the other option, but I haven't heard much good, or bad. But if you cant get this thing to shoot it looks like I may start practicing my barrel welds. Is your chamber loose enough to fit 9x23 in? The barrel I have fits 9x23 loose, and 38 super tight, but it is not marked. Same carbonara blue that was on the colt slide.

I have not try any 9x23's in mine but, my super's seem to fit properly.
I do have a ROTO 45 ACP barrel I shoot in one of my other 1911's and it's camber is as tight as the Match barrel I have for it. I don't know if this helps you or not.

[bobthenailer]

I have used different brass but was reloaded with 38 super dies first

[dano440]

I have used different brass but was reloaded with 38 super dies first

I thought about trying some 38 TJ and 38 Comp brass from Starline they say the feed smoother with rims turned down (comp & TJ brass) I have not had any problems feeding due to rim hang ups.

hopefully this Sunday out at the club I will get a chance to fire mine with some new loads for it. I still have not laid my hands one any Lil' gun powder, but have of little bit I got from some friends so I could give it a try.

[dano440]

Well I managed to get out over the weekend and fire a few shells to see what would happen.
I tried some "Longshot" powder with 125 grain and 150 grain bullets, nothing impressive. Also tried some 158 with unique about 4.7 grains they seemed to be the most accurate out of the litter or at least they were all on the paper. It seems that this gun likes heavy bullets. I had my overall length a little to long (1.260")and they didn't feed with a damn. Reloaded some last night a 1.200" and just cycling the slide manually they seem to feed better.

well back out to the range again.