what do you think of this load for hunting

[Lloyd Smale]

I recently picked up a 16 inch tc carbine in 3030 and a 4570 barrel that i lopped to 18 inch. Makes for a real handy little gun. I posted some on the heavy 458 cast bullets ealier and came to settle on a load of 23 grains of h4227 and a 540 ballitcast wfngc that weights 554 out of #2 this load shoots into an inch at 50 yards and i figure thats fine for the purpose. The 3030 is a real experiment ive been playing with quite a few cast bullets from 100 grain 32s sized down to 170fn lyman gas checks and shooting them all at max velocitys and plinking levels. What i ran into is the 120 lbt lfngc. this bullet shoots one inch groups with 8 grains of unique and the same with a load i wont publish that is pushing it to 2500 fps plus. When sighted in at 100 yards with the hot load it shoots the plinker right to point of aim at 25 yards. Figured it would be an ideal combo as a guy could just load a light load to take small game and switch to the heavier load for more serious stuff. Now one more little take off on this gun. Ive also been playing with sabots and 22 jackted bullets. First testings were dismal. 3 inch 25 yard groups! Then i took the advice of someone on here and really pushed them. When velocitys closed on 4000 fps things changed. At first i about gave up as he first hot loads i tried were with military ball bullets and 100 yard groups were minute of barn door. Switching to hornady amax 50 grain bullets i shot a 5 shot group at 1.5 inch so it deffinately shows potential. Again I would never publish this load as it made me close my eyes the first time i pullet the trigger but as i was told by my adviser it showed absoultley no pressure signs of any kind. Now for the original reason for this post. Anyone have any experience with actually shooting a deer sized animal with something like a 120 lfn at these velocitys. I would think that cast out of #2 or 5050 ww/lyno it would hold together good enough to get to the vitals but id sure like to hear from someone that has actuall experience. Another addage to the post. I shot probably a 100 of these heavy loads out of that gun that day along with about 50 of the sabots and many other cast loads and never had on lick of leading. the cast bullets were sized to 310 and lubed with my variation of felix lube. the 120s that I really pushed were also tumble lubed. I dont know if the extra lube helped or not but figured it wouldnt hurt. Now if I could only find someone to design me a scope that has a flip lever and to sight settings as the 22s shoot about 2 feet from point of aim of the cast load. Id have one versitile little gun that would take care of alot of field situations.

[Bass Ackward]

LLoyd,

I have used a 30 caliber, 154 grain LBT Spitzer at 2600 fps muzzle on deer, bullets running 14 BHN. Broadside, shot is all and the bullet broke up. And as with other bullets of similar performance at this velocity range, nerve hits and breathing states come into play from reactions to hydrostatic shock.

It could fold like it was hit with the hammer of Thor if everything goes right. If you have my luck and yours acts as mine, and the meplat is going to put the shaft under even more stress than my spitzer, then bring your tennis shoes and a flash light.

[felix]

Lloyd, I think a fun way to determine how fast is fast for hunting is shooting the boolit at a fixed rock. If the rock splits and does not explode, then the boolit will hold up in an animal. If the lead just splatters, then you have a varmit boolit. Naturally, you have to pick the right kind and size of rock, and that just might be impossible. Lots of granite up your way, and that kind of target would prolly be a joke for a reasonable determination. Around here the rocks are comparatively soft. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

felix i actually shot some at rocks but they were large hard ones. It sure does smack them at a 100 yards though!

[Lloyd Smale]

thanks bass thats the kind of real world stuff i was looking for. Any ideal what kind of max velocity say a #2 bullet will hold up to. If at 14bhn it shattered theres ot much hope for even harder bullets.
LLoyd,

I have used a 30 caliber, 154 grain LBT Spitzer at 2600 fps muzzle on deer, bullets running 14 BHN. Broadside, shot is all and the bullet broke up. And as with other bullets of similar performance at this velocity range, nerve hits and breathing states come into play from reactions to hydrostatic shock.

It could fold like it was hit with the hammer of Thor if everything goes right. If you have my luck and yours acts as mine, and the meplat is going to put the shaft under even more stress than my spitzer, then bring your tennis shoes and a flash light.

[rhead]

[smilie=1: Would you be breaking any local laws to snag a fresh road killed deer? They make t he ideal medium for testing bullet performace and checking wound channels. Then you will KNOW what it will do on a Texas heart shot.:-D

[Bass Ackward]

thanks bass thats the kind of real world stuff i was looking for. Any ideal what kind of max velocity say a #2 bullet will hold up to. If at 14bhn it shattered theres ot much hope for even harder bullets.


I would say about 2200 fps max. Problem is, you start to drop out of the hydrostatic shock area and now your limited bullet weight becomes the issue. No free lunch. That's why the larger in bore diameter you go, the more options you get because you still have bullet weight.

To withstand impact at rifle velocities, you get much better results from the strength that comes from a larger shank diameter and rational meplat control than actual bullet hardness. At least that's my experience.

That's why I like 35 caliber. :grin: But rhead is correct, testing will be better than my opinion.

[felix]

Yep, a 280 grainer out of a 35 going 2400 will crack reinforced 12 inch hiway concrete blocks. Got proof. Two shots in the same location with 1900 fps will do the same. 50-80 yards out of Corky's Whelen. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

Im not a big cast bullet shooter in rifles other then the pistol caliber guns the .35 and 356 and the big bores like the 4570 and 444. Ive shot some 30s but not much and this whole thing is something new to me and i appeciate all the advise. I have to agree with on thing though. Its hard to beat the vesitility of a 35 when cast bullets are being used. I guess my thoughts in this little gun was to try to get the trajectory of a 165 308 out of the 120s and still be able to kill something reliably but i guess theres no free lunch.