homemade swaging dies

[rmatchell]

The more i read the more I want to get into swaging but the cost is holding me back. Being young, married, and getting ready to have our second kid i'm looking for a cheap start. I bought a rockchucker and keep thinking about starting out making .224 bullets out of 22lr cases because there are plenty of raw materials around. I'm thinking about buying a lee sizer and using it to derim the case, my biggest question is how would a person make a easy point forming die. My quick idea was to use a 1/8in carbide ball cutter and taper out to .224. Wondering what your guys thoughts would be. Unless I win the loto(which I don't play) ill be working on my own dies so any advice would be great.

[marten]

Easiest is to make your own 'D' bit reamer, there is no real 'quick' way to do it!

[kd185]

this guy made a 22lr derimming die out or a 22 bullet resizing die
sounds fairly easy if you have access to a lathe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ5KWdJKnRI&feature=plcp

[kd185]

these maybe an option
i have no dog in this fight so buy on your own terms

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERTERS-22-CALIBER-BULLET-SWAGING-DIE-MARKED-224-VERY-NICE-CONDITION-/190737913988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c68dd9884

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bullet-Swaging-Swage-Die-Set-7-8-x-14-TPI-224-dies-/121000845202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2c365f92

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derim-die-jacket-maker-swage-die-22LR-into-224-jackets-/121000846479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2c36648f

[DukeInFlorida]

The first link that kd185 listed is a Herters die That makes only swc style nosed bullets. was really developed for use with half jackets. Not state of the art

The second link is for the Coltac guy who's getting sued for internet fraud here by some of the other CB guys, for taking their tools nd money and disappearing with it.. I would avoid that guy at all costs.

Ditto on the third one. avoid at all costs.

Just my two cents worth.

[marten]

Half right, round nose not swc, Right about half jackets.
I have a set.

[Reg]

You are going to have to have access to a lathe or a lathe with a friend attached. There is just no way around it. It's very do able and there are several different ways you can go but that lathe is the kicker.

[DukeInFlorida]

I have two sets, similar. Both make rounded nose swc's. They are not real round nose. They are like normal swc's but with a curved front surface.

And, I am ENTIRELY right about the thief, Coltac. :popcorn:


Half right, round nose not swc, Right about half jackets.
I have a set.

[marten]

What you call a SWC is a result of the die / punch construction.
The die set uses two punches, one flat - one shaped, to achieve its swaged bullet.
The nose punch, of which I have 4, has a small 'lip' hence your mis-named semi wad cutter shoulder.
The reason that there is a 'lip' is to save the punch from damage rather than any intended SWC styling. Just because there is a small shoulder does not immediately make it a SWC.

Regardless of you being 'right', the vigour of your evangelism regarding Colt is a pain and really spoils the swaging thread. Please cool your heels regarding this as it is not particularly pleasant to read.
Did you actually buy anything from him? (Rhetorical question).

Now I'm not defending Colt but we have not had any explanation from him so you should keep keep it zipped until the facts are known, no one selected you as judge and jury and I imagine that you would feel aggrieved if the shoe was on the other foot.
I know that I do not 'have' to read your posts, and henceforth I will be using the ignore function - but it would be better for all if you could attempt to reign in the vitriol and the advertising that you seem so fond of.

[csmopar]

Regardless of you being 'right', the vigour of your evangelism regarding Colt is a pain and really spoils the swaging thread. Please cool your heels regarding this as it is not particularly pleasant to read.
Did you actually buy anything from him? (Rhetorical question).

Now I'm not defending Colt but we have not had any explanation from him so you should keep keep it zipped until the facts are known, no one selected you as judge and jury and I imagine that you would feel aggrieved if the shoe was on the other foot.
I know that I do not 'have' to read your posts, and henceforth I will be using the ignore function - but it would be better for all if you could attempt to reign in the vitriol and the advertising that you seem so fond of.

Um, wow, I don't have anything to do with Duke or colt, but I think you kind of made more of then what was warranted based on what Duke tried to do in this post. I can see he's attempting to warn off a new swager before that guy loses his money. I see no wrong with that and jumping down Duke's throat about it was over the line. Granted, I have not completely followed the Colt situation and that thread, I feel this was a harmless post not directed to stir an argument about it but to simply prevent another victim. I think further discussion needs to stay in the thread for it but at the same time, I'm glad Duke warned him.

[Hamish]

marten, there's nothing in the world like making ones self look foolish for jumping down someones throat for being in the right.

Take it for what you will.

[marten]

marten, there's nothing in the world like making ones self look foolish for jumping down someones throat for being in the right.

Take it for what you will.

As you like, but the continual banging on really does not help matters.
I do not feel at all foolish in asking to ease off of the incessant ego stroking abounding here. I would have preferred a considered response and then actually discussing swaging.

'In the right' is not proven, maybe America is sliding into the mire quicker than I thought, what happened to proving guilt? Or it is acceptable now to call someone a thief without recourse to legal proceedings? Or attempting to steer the course of, a possibly, impending action by a smear campaign?
There was a thread regarding selling bullets, where the minutiae of the legality was explored - obviously some double standards are acceptable.


As I said I'm not defending anyone here, was just asking for some calm.

I don't have many posts here but I did want to share my engineering experience with you all, unfortunately some members really began to affect the once pleasurable visits here. It really is no 'fun' in this section any more.

Seeing that the swaging thread is now all about avoiding 'dead beats' or just advertising for BT maybe its time to leave you all to it.
Very little is ever shown on 'how to do it' - people talk about their 'secret methods' etc. 'scuse me I thought this was a forum dedicated on how to swage and make the dies etc? not just a commercial advertising spot.
IIRC there is a vendors sales section, why pollute things over here?

Have at it fellas! If you like the 'swaging' section like this, who am I to argue?


all the best
Marten

[DukeInFlorida]

You can "ignore" my posts in your settings if you choose. Hahaha.. Hope you don't miss any gems from my DECADES of reloading/casting/swaging.

I get lots of wonderful thank you's on all sorts of subjects, including saving people from losing their money. In the midst of my recently discovered Multiple Myeloma (look it up!), I will continue to pass along any and all wisdom to the community, as best I can, while I can.

Yes, the slight 'lip" on the edge does, technically, make that bullet style a nice swc. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that bullet sytyle. Just pointing out that the lip is there, so that a casual reader doesn't think it's the type of bullet with a normal curved ogive. It's a true SWC, but instead of a CONE, it has a round button nose.

I am not shill for BT Sniper.

I sat on the sidelines for a long time, and experimented with Berger/Herters, and other die sets waiting for the true winner to emerge from the pile. The ONLY one showing honest pride in workmanship, honest delivery of quality work for an honest price, and honest ongoing development has been BT Sniper. All the rest popped in for a quick buck, left people hanging, and disappeared. They should be forever banished from this and other forums. I can't say that strongly enough.

There are other great makers of good quality dies and presses, and you should seek out the knowledge to know which makers suit you best.

If you're on a really tight budget, my recommendation is to avoid the fly-by-night options. Statistically, you'll get screwed or at the very least be very disappointed. If you're on that tight a budget, you should probably stick with buying projectiles.

If you're at the upper level of need for accuracy, then go with the best dies, albeit expensive and with long lead times. The world champions use those expensive tools and wait years for delivery.

If you're in the middle ground, then there are a handful of makers who would suit you well. I have chosen BT Sniper as MY one and only go-to guy. I have worked with him, know him to be honest and hard working. He produces an excellent product. He has never lied or exaggerated about abilities. He continues to expand the offerings to suit the requests of his loyal customers. He's a small shop, yes. And, he's a stay at home dad. But... has anyone else on this forum, EVER......... impressed you as much as Brian has impressed me with the continuing development of swaging dies for the hobby?

That's why I get get VERY upset when the fly by night guys swoop in, trying to make quick buck here. Every time they have come in, someone gets screwed. Let the buyer beware.

[rmatchell]

Wow looks like I missed a lil bit on the thread in the last few days. I do have a update though I am buying the lee 224 sizer and going to turn the punch to fit the 22 case so far thats the easy part. I am tracking down some tool steel to make a point forming die. As I said this is a very low budget project and more of to see if I can even do it at all. I do have access to a mill and lathe so guess its time to work. Thanks again guys.

[newcastter]

I have converted a .224 sizing die to derim, but I use it to derim Mag and HMR brass before I send it through my derim die. You are going to have a problem with the size of the derimmed brass as it will be way to big in diameter I am guessing around .225 after spring back. It works for me because I then send it through my derim die that brings it back down to size. I would get a price on a .222 or .223 sizing die from Lee if that is going to be your sole derim die. Anyway I used a dremel tool with a coned stone bit and just tapered the mouth of the die until I got a smooth derim process otherwise it derims in a very sudden rough jolt with lots of force.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=688&pictureid=5034

[FWest]

I made my derim die from a drill bushing and a 7/8 -14 bolt. A bit ugly but works very well. Can post a pic if anyone want more details.

[rmatchell]

thanks for the information guys

[farmallcrew]

Drill bushing and a bolt.......interesting!!!

[BossHoss]

I made my derim die from a drill bushing and a 7/8 -14 bolt. A bit ugly but works very well. Can post a pic if anyone want more details.

I would love to see that too.


my 2 cents on the drama:

There is an alarming amount of scammers in every facet of every hobby.

Getting warned by the "Sage" on a board related to said hobby about the scammer or suspected scammer is priceless. However, it should be taken as a bump towards checking it out for yourself.


I for one appreciate the the heads-up, Duke.

As always Caveat Emptor.

[Utah Shooter]

I would not worry too much about it Marten. You would not be the first person that does not comment in the swaging section because of Dukes and others relentless bantering. It is a shame what I have learned from some of these guys that you cannot due to this. Most would be best off taking Dukes advice and not reading his posts.

[marten]

I would not worry too much about it Marten. You would not be the first person that does not comment in the swaging section because of Dukes and others relentless bantering. It is a shame what I have learned from some of these guys that you cannot due to this. Most would be best off taking Dukes advice and not reading his posts.

Thanks Utah, have used a board 'function' for that!

And for the guys using a drill bushing, it is a relatively cheap option.
I made a de rim die like this with changeable bushings (I make the bushings too)
It has one real nice side effect, hardening and honing a bushing is a sight easier than a complete die!!! and if you make a boo boo it does not make you cry!

@rmatchell - you can make the dies for next to nothing but I would advise that you at least 'scrounge' some quality heat treatable steel for your project. Your biggest investment by far is the time you throw at it!

[rmatchell]

Yeah Marten thats the current snag. My dad is trying to get me some tool steel most likely a2. One of his old buddies works at a local company that makes tooling and such, so were going to try to work up some scrap.