Wad cutters in .44 and .45

[MattOrgan]

Anyone have any experience with full wad cutters in .41, .44, or .45 Long Colt ? Is there any advantage in accuracy for target type loads?

[Dframe]

I haven't noticed a great deal of difference in terms of accuracy (yet) but paper targets are SO much easier to read, with their nice clean holes. I'm still experimenting with my 44 wadcutters though.

[44man]

No, they are most likely the least accurate followed by the semi wad cutter. All they do is make round holes.

[45 2.1]

No, they are most likely the least accurate followed by the semi wad cutter. All they do is make round holes.

At low target velocities they're very good. Shoot the boolits you like at those velocities and see what happens to them.

[smoked turkey]

I don't have a mold for a full wadcutter in those calibers, but I would think they would be very effective for home protection.

[Tim357]

Mike Venturino has penned several pieces about full WC in big bore revolvers. IIRC he likes the way they shoot

[subsonic]

They are out there and molds can be had. If you want efficiency for close range cheap plinking they would be hard to beat. Put a little nose on them and they might surprise you.

[44man]

At low target velocities they're very good. Shoot the boolits you like at those velocities and see what happens to them.
It is just guidance at the cone and bore that needs perfect alignment in the gun.
I believe it is the reason a wad cutter is not good at long distances.
Damage in transition!

[45 2.1]

It is just guidance at the cone and bore that needs perfect alignment in the gun.
I believe it is the reason a wad cutter is not good at long distances.
Damage in transition!

Bluff flat nose with a BC of practically nothing at low velocity. 38 WCs go silly at about 75 yds. Alignment damage has little to do with it in this case as I have recovered many of them with no alignment damage at all.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Seems like everybody is trying to make a long range shooter out of a short range boolet design.Robert

[44man]

Seems like everybody is trying to make a long range shooter out of a short range boolet design.Robert
Not really. It is good at times.
I fail to see why they don't shoot farther. I have made a thousand tests with the Keith that has the silly shoulder not needed except for paper. The wad cutter is for paper.
It is hard to see damage when you pick up boolits but I have found many with a side showing less rifling depth then the other. Need a magnifier to detect it.
The same has been said over and over about a WFN going unstable so why do I hit at 500 meters with them?
Work with a Keith has shown VERY hard was 3 to 4X more accurate.
Now has anyone ever tested VERY hard wad cutters? I cut groups with a Keith a tremendous amount at 28 to 30 BHN.
I made the Keith pull the cylinder into alignment.
Seems wad cutters are all dead soft.
I really don't know since I will not buy factory boolits and will not make funny molds but my best shooting boolits run 82% meplats because I still want an ogive curve to center the cylinders. My best .44 boolit has a long nose because the ogive is close to the forcing cone angle. I can not imagine jamming a flat shoulder into the cone.
If all revolvers were perfect, the forcing cone would NOT be needed.

[subsonic]

One of my "rountuit" tests is going to be wringing out .38/.357 wadcutters hard, soft, short range, long range (100yds), high velocity, low velocity, and doing some myth busting vs some dead soft hollow base Hornady WC.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have used flat faced WC's in 38/357, 44 and 45 at ranges up to 50 yards with good success. They cut neat holes and are accurate if loaded properly. They save lead to some degree and are pleasant to work with in terms of lower recoil. But they are also the worst shape possible aerodynamically and will do crazy things in a windy setting and or just skid on the slightest wind. WC's have long been popular in 38 special, but choices in 44 special/mag have traditionally been a bit limited...however they do work very well. In 45 ACP they don't/won't feed well or at all in 1911's; in revolvers using moonie clips or 45 Auto Rims good results can also be realized. LLS

[GBertolet]

I shoot a WC in my 29 S&W, in 44 spl cases. It's the 180gr Lyman 429348, with 4.5gr of Bullseye powder. It drops at .433, which just happens to be my cylinder throat diameter. Just tumble in LLA and load. I just use it for 25 yd shooting, which mostly consists of plinking. It's devastating on tin cans. Never had a load in any gun that rips them up like this one does. Must be the combination of low velocity with the flat nose. I cast very soft, 50% lead with 50% WW.
I have a 45 cal Lyman 452389 WC also, that I plan to test out more in my S&W 25-2. This is one of the first molds I ever purchased, some 35 years ago. This is one mold of many I have for the 45 cal. They drop out at .454, while my cylinder throats in the 25 are .456. I give them the LLA tumble lube treatment also. They seem to slug up well, as there is no leading. Another short range plinking bullet for future development.

[curiousgeorge]

I had a Ruger Super Redhawk with a 4 x scope in .44 mag several years ago. The Lee 210 gr full wadcutter in front of 4.0 grs of Bullseye would shoot 1 ragged hole about the size of a quarter at 25 yards when shot in .44 special cases.

Sold the gun and scope, never tried the load in any of my other guns. This was during a phase of my life when Sunday afternoons were spent at the range with a bunch of us just trying to out-do the next guy for the smallest group any way we could. Won several, several of the pots, especially against any first time shooters, but when that phase passed, the load was not really suitable for much else for me so I discarded it.

Just my experience.

Steve

[rintinglen]

I bought a NOE 432-230 WC.
It shoots wonderfully well out of my Ruger Flat-Top 44 Special out to 50 yards. 5.0 grains of RedDot or 6.5 grains of Unique both shoot extremely well. My S&W m-22 does not shoot it quite as well, but it still will make nice round groups. I am going to develop a hard hitting defense load using this boolit one of these days, but for now, I just enjoy it as a paper punch.

[HDS]

I enjoy my mihec hollowbase wadcutters, I had some problems at first but sizing them to throat size instead of .001" above and loading them far out so that they touch the leade into the throat seemed to fix all leading problems.

I use them to make short range plinking & target ammo essentially. That way I know at a glance what I am grabbing.

WCs = light target loads
Keith SWCs = moderate .44 spl loads
Jacketed HPs = full magnum loads

Thats my system anyway. And I really enjoy casting the HBWCs, it is one of my easiest to cast molds.

[ebner glocken]

I have a 200 DEWC that drops .430. It works very well in any of my .44s with a charge of 6.0 bullseye. Punches paper tightly and will slap an armidillo dead instantly within 50 yards.

Ebner

[bobthenailer]

Ive used cast WC in 357 & 44 mag , never foud them to be more accurate than SWC or TC bullets , they do cut cleaner holes in the target but accuracy with WC at 50 yards for me at least went south .

[km101]

One of my "rountuit" tests is going to be wringing out .38/.357 wadcutters hard, soft, short range, long range (100yds), high velocity, low velocity, and doing some myth busting vs some dead soft hollow base Hornady WC.

I would love to see the results of those tests! Probably produce some interesting conclusions. If you ever get "a round tuit" please post the results. I'm sure many would be interested. I havent thought about wadcutters in my .44's, but now I think I might try to work up a load. Another project! Just what I need.

[subsonic]

I would love to see the results of those tests! Probably produce some interesting conclusions. If you ever get "a round tuit" please post the results. I'm sure many would be interested. I havent thought about wadcutters in my .44's, but now I think I might try to work up a load. Another project! Just what I need.

You guys know me, I'll post group pics and chrono numbers at the drop of a hat....

[Groo]

Not really. It is good at times.
I fail to see why they don't shoot farther. I have made a thousand tests with the Keith that has the silly shoulder not needed except for paper. The wad cutter is for paper.
It is hard to see damage when you pick up boolits but I have found many with a side showing less rifling depth then the other. Need a magnifier to detect it.
The same has been said over and over about a WFN going unstable so why do I hit at 500 meters with them?
Work with a Keith has shown VERY hard was 3 to 4X more accurate.
Now has anyone ever tested VERY hard wad cutters? I cut groups with a Keith a tremendous amount at 28 to 30 BHN.
I made the Keith pull the cylinder into alignment.
Seems wad cutters are all dead soft.
I really don't know since I will not buy factory boolits and will not make funny molds but my best shooting boolits run 82% meplats because I still want an ogive curve to center the cylinders. My best .44 boolit has a long nose because the ogive is close to the forcing cone angle. I can not imagine jamming a flat shoulder into the cone.
If all revolvers were perfect, the forcing cone would NOT be needed.

Groo here
The reason the shoulder on a Keith has little or no effect on the air flow of the
bullet.
As a flyer I can say with some knowledge that at the speeds clocked
by even a 44 spec factory [700 fps or 477mph] that the nose pushes the air
out and around the rest of the bullet,so it looks like a rnfp in drag.
This is why Keith saw better long rang performance with a longer over a shorter one. It pushed the shockwave further out and lowered drag.
But a wc flat is just drag , causing the bullet to slow down quickly
and more likely to tip.

[subsonic]

Groo here
The reason the shoulder on a Keith has little or no effect on the air flow of the
bullet.
As a flyer I can say with some knowledge that at the speeds clocked
by even a 44 spec factory [700 fps or 477mph] that the nose pushes the air
out and around the rest of the bullet,so it looks like a rnfp in drag.
This is why Keith saw better long rang performance with a longer over a shorter one. It pushed the shockwave further out and lowered drag.
But a wc flat is just drag , causing the bullet to slow down quickly
and more likely to tip.

Most "wadcutters", the RCBS 38-148 for example, have that little button nose on them. I have read somewhere that that little nose works about like you describe.

My "roundtoit" test should be enlightening. Probably will be spring before I'm 'roundtoit.