M1917 WWII re-arsenal program

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Does anyone know the details on this program? In particular, what were the re-finishing details on the re-arsenaled rifles after the inspection repair work was done? Was the entire rifle sand blasted and parked? Were some parts painted, some blued?

Reason I ask is I picked up that sporterized rifle and I've got a Johnson Automatic barrel NOS I can replace the cut in half barrel with. I'd like to be able to re-finish historically correct and if I can find a good military stock, great. If I can't, I'll buy a Boyd's stock.

If you have any information or know any good links on the re-finishing process, please post them.

Thank for your help,

Dave

[Dutchman]

The question you ask requires a book to answer. It's really not a simple answer.

Parkerizing does not require sandblasting. The patented process centers on the ability to absorb oil into the finish. Original factory parkerizing was not put on over a sandblasted finish. It can be difficult to discern to the inexperienced eye. A little tutorial:::

I was asked once to go and view a U.S. m/1918 Browning Automatic Rifle in Indiana that was for sale. The potential customer wanted to know whether the finish was original or what. The rifle had British proofs and an A2 clip guide that had a later greenish parkerized finish. The rifle itself appeared blued. But original m/1918 BAR had a "commercial quality blued finish". The U.S. Model 1917 had the exact type commercial quality blue finish as well.

http://images62.fotki.com/v1315/photos/2/28344/3588536/bar3-vi.jpg

http://images16.fotki.com/v378/photos/2/28344/3588536/z11-vi.jpg

http://images51.fotki.com/v1562/photos/2/28344/3588536/z10-vi.jpg

The gun was dirty, not well maintained by the owner. But this picture illustrates the bottom line. At first I wondered why there were streaks in the finish then it occurred to me that I was looking at parkerizing not a blued finish. Those streaks are caused by oil soaking into the parkerized finish. Coupled with painted bipod parts and British proofs my bottom line was the gun had been refinished in Britain and was not USGI as originally manufactured.

http://images16.fotki.com/v363/photos/2/28344/3588536/z04-vi.jpg

My Remington m/1917 rifle made in March, 1918 has the original commercial quality blue on the barreled receiver. The rest of the parts are a mix of parkerizing from later rebuilds. The original blue is very nice over polished steel. There's no mistaking what it is once you've seen the various finishes used on USGI firearms.

J.C.Harrison's book, The American Enfield, has detailed information on finishes used and at what time by the three different primary builders of the m/1917 rifle. Here's a quote from Harrison's book:

"The problem is that "Parkerizing" has become a generic term that indicates a phosphate grey, grey-black or grey-green finish, which is applied over a sandblasted surface. In-fact, the Parker Rust Proof Co. finish (as used by Eddystone and Remington after late 1918) is black in color and appears to have been applied over a buffed surface with no sand blasting being used. If this finish is well oiled, original parkerized Eddystone and Remington rifles and component parts (produced after Aug. 1918) will have an appearance very close to that of the earlier blued models."

Harrison goes on to comment about "Field Replacement Parts" straight from sealed packages but it's a very long paragraph. You need the book :).

Be aware that US Model 1917 rifles have been used as Lend-Lease fodder from China, Canada, Denmark (mine is Danish), England and elsewhere. What currently circulates in the US curio-relic market can't really be used as a guide for USGI without in-depth inspection and even then there are multiple ~correct~ answers to some of your questions that it could cause heart palpitations to the weak. On rebuilds it would be perfectly fine to find blued parts mixed with parkerized parts.

~Correct~ can cause grown men to weep like little girls.

Dutch

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dutch,

Thank you for that very enlightening answer. I will have to get that book.

Dave

[Char-Gar]

I have two M1917s. One is a Winchester with the original blue finish. The other is a Remington with a JA barrel put on it during the re-arsenal at the San Antonio Arsenal. The finish on the Remington is the typical grey Parkerized finish and the markings are still very sharp, but not as sharp as the Winchester. From that I gather the Remington was blasted at San Antonio.

Both rifles are in good original shape and are good shooters.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Char-Gar,

Would you be kind enough to post some pics of the Remington? I'd really like to see the details, especially the small parts and the buttplate, things like that.

Thank you,

Dave

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I have an Eddystone That has what appears to be an original barrel from 17 or 18 (I don't remember right off hand) but that rifle is as green as could be. I has obviously been parkerized at some point and I would assume based on the condition of the finish it was not used much afterward.

I have often wondered about the logic of the "re-arsenal" job done to that rifle. The finish looks great but that old barrel is just about shot out. I wonder why they didn't replace it?

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Depends on when it went through the arsenal in the war. If things were winding down, who knows what might have been done?

[George369]

When the rifle went thru rebuild the barrel may have been in good shape and did not require a new barrel.The damage to the barrel could have been post-rebuild by a civilian owner who failed to properly clean after shooting corrosive primed ammo.

[Char-Gar]

I have an Eddystone That has what appears to be an original barrel from 17 or 18 (I don't remember right off hand) but that rifle is as green as could be. I has obviously been parkerized at some point and I would assume based on the condition of the finish it was not used much afterward.

I have often wondered about the logic of the "re-arsenal" job done to that rifle. The finish looks great but that old barrel is just about shot out. I wonder why they didn't replace it?

Following WWII many veterans groups like VFW and American Legion were issued M1917s to use for Color Guards and to fire salutes at funerals with blanks. Very seldom were these rifles cleaned after being fired with blanks, and depending on the climate and the age of the blank (corrosive primers) , could turn the barrel into toast after 30 or 40 years of such use.

My Remington appears to be one such rifle. The stock has been given a coat of varnish to make it shiney. When the varnish was stripped I found the original oil finish underneath in top notch shape with all the markings crisp and sharp. Lucky for me the bore was also in primo shape.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Varnish can be a wonderful preservative finish. Can we get a picture?

[Kestrel4k]

Very interesting, thanks for posting that info, I'd love to see more pics from others. I love parkerizing and wish it were available on a greater variety of firearms.

[fourarmed]

I also have a Remington rebuilt with a JA (two-groove) barrel. It has the gray/green finish everywhere.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Okay folkses, ante up those pictures now, they tell the story better than we can.

Dave

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I'm a little ashamed to say - I don't think I have any pictures of the 1917 yet. I think I got it just after the last "photo shoot" I did (ID pics).

I may see if I can do that this weekend as there are a few new toys that need to see the light!

[Char-Gar]

If will be a day or two, but I will put up some pics. It is a PITA because I must reduce the number of pixtels to post it on this site.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Char-Gar,

I may be mistaken, but I think there's a way you can upload them here without changing pixel size, but you have to do it through your profile. I can't remember how though.

[madsenshooter]

Very interesting, thanks for posting that info, I'd love to see more pics from others. I love parkerizing and wish it were available on a greater variety of firearms.

Then you'd like my 117yr old 92/96 Krag. It was done by a veteran's organization in the Carolinas. The seller moved several of them.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I post my pics for here tomy photobucket account, then copy the IMG code which is at the bottom of the drop down box that comes upwhen you hover the cursorover the thumbnail pic. I have never reduced them.

here is an example, my eddy P14 Fat Boy

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/e4034b00.jpg

There used to be a post on the test page I think which gave detailed instructions for uploading pics. Easy nowadays with the phone cameras.

[MtGun44]

I have read that the green color comes from the long term coating with cosmoline.

Bill