3f in .45 and .50 ?

[enfield]

just wondering if anyone has tried 3f in either a 45-70 or 50-70. any danger of too much presure ?. or should the load just be reduced a %. I generaly use 50 to 55 grains 2f in the 50 cal with a 450 gr and 60 grains of 2f in the 45-70 with the 405 gr. boolit. thanks for any advice.

[RobsTV]

Yes, and no pressure issues.

[drcook]

there are numerous folks on the Shiloh board that use 3F. I have shot 3F in a 45-90 before. In my particular case, the results were not the best, better accuracy was obtained with 2F.

I have found that issue in a couple of my cartridges, ie: better accuracy with the slower powder.

[cajun shooter]

All Black Powder is the exact same in it's make up. Unlike that other powder which some find fun to shoot ( still can't understand that).
The grain size and shape is how you receive the different burn times with BP. It all burns from the outer surface in. The smaller and more rounded grain is going to burn faster than the larger and irregular shaped grain.
For the most part, we need a longer burn to send a heavy projectile down range so the nod goes to the 2 F and even in the European powders we use the 1 1/2 F.
If you take our only American Powder being made now and look at it under a Microscope in lets say 2F and then compare that with any other powder you will see that our 2F is larger than that of the other makers.
I have found that to be true regardless of the brand looked at. Most shooters use either 2F or even 1 1/2 F when firing the larger calibers.
Now this is not a hard and fast rule as they have those who choose to use 3 F but I think if you read any results from most any long range match you will find the larger grain powder will be the powder of choice.
I use loads that contain 68-70 grains of 2F with a powder compression die and have no problems and the bullet is the postell at 535 grains.

['74 sharps]

Tried 3F in my 45-70's and it wasn't consistent. Seems I read that the larger calibers do best with a coarse grain powder such as 2F or 1.5F. I run 70 grains 2F with 480 grains of 20/1 lead and am getting very good results.

[30calflash]

Good stuff here!

Is it worth trying 1F in a 45-70? If slower is better???

[Don McDowell]

Using 3f powder you can crowd a 45-70 into 45-90 territory. It will heat the barrel faster, and therefore you need a great lube or stay on top of your fouling control.

30 cal 1f works well in the 45-70 altho the velocity might be a bit slow for shooting at distance.

[drcook]

1F is better in calibers such as the 45-100 or 45-110. I have a 42 2.6 that 1F works better in. In the particular lot of Goex 2F that I have, and everything really is lot specific, I use 72 gr in one of my 45-70s and 85 grain in the 90, both under 540 gr PJC bullets.

In my experience, it seems the longer the case relative to caliber, the slower the powder works best.

But as I said, it is lot specific and once these cases of 1F and 2F are gone, it will be back to the load development phase.

[JeffinNZ]

I can burn either Swiss 3Fg or 1.5Fg in my .38-303 with similar results. 50gr of 3Fg or 60gr 1.5Fg. Velocity and accuracy are about the same. I tend to favour the 1.5Fg however as I feel it is a 'softer' push on the boolit.

[tacklebury]

I use Goex FFFg exclusively for BP loads. ;)

[missionary5155]

Good evening
Have shot 3F in my 45-70, 50-70 and 50-95. Expect a good 10%+ velocity gain and a cleaner barrel. The old "Express" loads were loaded with 3F for the velocity gain .
Mike in ILL

[mehavey]

On the recommendation of another BPCR shooter last week, I loaded up some GoEX 3F under my usual 540gr Paul Jones in the 45-90 Rolling block.
A couple of observations:

- For the same volume as 80gr Swiss 1.5, I only got 78gr of 3F. That surprised me
- Recoil was noticably sharper w/ the Swiss 1.5 compared to the 3F
- Swiss 1.5 was a little dirtier on the first damp wiping patch.
- The 3F grouping was "OK," but not nearly good enough to displace my standardizing on Swiss.

[cajun shooter]

You have found the exact reason that most large caliber shooters use the 1 1/2 as compared to the other sizes. The smaller grain size of all Swiss powders will allow it to fill a case with more powder.
I have put many different brands on glass to look at under the microscopes power. Swiss is smaller and more even in size that almost any other powder.
This means it will burn faster and much more even than a grain that is very irregular in both size and finish.
Goex grain size can't be compared to any other powder. It is larger in any size when compared to all others which are made in countries with the metric system as opposed to ours.
A 45-70 case of Goex 2 F will weigh out less than the same case with Swiss 2F.

[Hogpost]

After several years trying various brands of BP (and subs), and grain sizes, I now use Swiss 3F in everything I load BP: 38-55 for Win 94, 44-40 for SAA Colt & Win 92, .455 Webley revolver, 11mm Mauser in Mauser ’71, and 45-70 in a rolling block.

The reasons are four.

1. No modern case has the capacity of the original “balloon heads;” and in my opinion, Swiss is the closest BP available to the old “sporting grade” powders. 3F instead of 2F roughly makes up for the decreased capacity without going to heavy compression.

2. 3F burns noticeably cleaner than 2F. (And Swiss anything burns noticeably cleaner than any other brand.)

3. I am not a BPCR competitor looking for minimal MOA acccuracy. I’m a “fun only” target shooter & plinker, and I hunt regularly. If I can usually nail a gong at 300 yards or a 2ltr water-filled pop bottle at 200 yards offhand, I’m happy with the accuracy: the rifle/ammo combo is more accurate than my old eyes. For hunting, I want the game to drop right now, so power is helpful, whether it’s a rabbit, a javelina, a feral pig or a deer. I know that lower velocities are more accurate for long-range silhouette; but I’ve never taken a game shot at more than 200 yards in my entire life.

4. Now that I’m retired, cost is important. Stocking only a single powder makes up (almost) for the added cost of the best: Swiss. Since I cannot get real BP locally, I order by mail: the HazMat charge applies to the order, whether it’s 1lb or 20 lbs. So, I usually order the biggest quantity I can afford at the time that will fit in a single box.

All this is, of course, only my opinion; but I have developed this opinion over at least 5 years and many pounds of power, both purchased and swapped-with-friends. Further in my opinion, I have found real BP preferable in every way to every substitute I have tried: easier to clean, less obnoxious fouling (no hard glassy residue or rings), and certainly no less corrosive.

I hope this long-winded reply is of help, or at least interest.