This lead is getting olde...

[tnv]

As a commercial welder, I know that aluminum will get harder as it ages. Aluminum fresh from the supplier will be harder if it is allowed to sit for 6-12 months. But if the aluminum is used right away, it will be softer. This applies to almost all aluminum alloys. In doing aircraft repairs in tig or mig, the difference is substantial, and the age of the aluminum parts to be repaired has to be taken into consideration. Since the alloys used in aircraft have to be closely monitored, the hardness will vary, even when the alloys are the same, depending on it's age. This is NOT a matter of "work hardening." My question...is this the same with lead and lead alloys? If I cast 200 bullets from a supply of lead ingots, then a year later cast another 200 with the same ingots alloy, will the older bullets cast a year earlier be harder? Why? tnv

[felix]

Not harder, but more consistent. Can't cast junk lead consistently unless the mold (lead) is at fixed temp, dropped into same temp ambient, from same height, etc, for all boolits in the lot. No two will be the same. All boolits will migrate to a steady state hardness, which depends on the natural (no funky exotics) makeup of the alloy. ... felix

[Whitespider]

felix

I’m pretty green at this, so .....
I’m not trying to argue with ya, I’m just trying to learn.

I was under the impression that air cooled cast boolits
will age harden with time. Have I misunderstood?

[felix]

You are correct, WS, over the short term because of the rapid cooling. More rapid the cooling, the harder the boolits become with any amount of antimony, arsenic, or some other impurities. But, how long does it take to reach maximum hardness? Some alloys 3 days, some 3 months. Then those that would normally be soft in steady-state will become softer quite rapidly. The same for the harder boolits, but the time will take umpteen times longer. If you want to be anal about it, don't shoot any boolit before a year after being made. ... felix

[tnv]

Oh, now I get it. So good bullets are like a fine wine...they get better with age! I have to wonder...are there any good years I should look for in a quality bullet? And is it best to shoot red meat with a red bullet? What colour bullet should I shoot when I'm shooting a white meat? Does the type of powder also affect the bouquet of the bullet? There is just so much I have yet to learn!! tnv

[felix]

TNV, right on! Yep, some of our crew cast in the nude with a full moon, with the hope the final, aged boolit lot will be the best ever done. Because of our junk ingredients, there is no telling how a lot will shoot until shot with an optimum load for that lot. ... felix

[Phil]

FELIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're giving away waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too many of our secrets here old fellow. You've really let the "cat" out of the bag with the nude in a full moon secret. Don't tell them how, or when, or how much, eye of newt to add. Geez man, us oldsters gotta keep our edge ya know. (:>)

Cheers,

Phil

[montana_charlie]

Don't tell them how, or when, or how much, eye of newt to add.
Now that YOU are responsible for mentioning that ingredient, we can probably expect to see a shortage of it in the near future. That shortage will be even more severe because the uninitiated will not know how much to use...and will probably be wastefully generous in their experiments.

The shortage, however, should be short-lived as the neophytes quickly abandon it's use. This rejection of the ingredient will ensue because of their lack of understanding about the proper way to prepare newt eye for this application.

I hope you (like me) have a sufficient quantity laid back to get you past the coming shortage.
CM

[Phil]

Yep, I laid in a good supply years ago. No need to tell anyone which particular variety, eh?

Cheers,

Phil

[leftiye]

Is that Newt Gingrich? Or?? I want to be sure I get the right stuff.

[montana_charlie]

I want to be sure I get the right stuff.
The species is less important than the freshness, though English varieties are preferred.
I have a small quantity of druid newt, collected from the 'bluestone' ring at Stonehenge, but I only use it in alloys meant for match bullets.

The eyes are still in the sockets, and each newt was individually encased in molten La Brea tar while still twitching. Stored this way, the shelf life is about 200 years.
CM

[walltube]

To insure a quality melt and boolit I suggest Gekko.

Try it.

Y.T.,

Wt.

[versifier]

Alright.

You guys better be careful what you post, or STPBLS (Save The Pitiful Blind Lizards Society) will lobby our legislators and/or go to court to try and stop boolit casting in any form. It could severely impact the fundraising ability of the SESFDNF (Seeing Eye Snails For Deserving Newts Foundation), which obviously would have further negative impact on us directly.

They will probably begin their campaign in Kalifornistan, taking advantage of the anti lead bullet movement already working it's way through the bowel of the legislature. This movement will grow in direct proportion to the number of recta that contribute to it. ONLY PROPER COMPOSTING CAN SAVE US!!! We must advocate the use of only organically cast boolits to counter the use of legislative fertilizer on anything intended for human consumption.

BTW, I have heard that politician shells do make a decent flux (an acceptable use), if chopped finely and sun dried, but as stated above, what they're full of needs careful composting and for safety's sake must be kept separate from your melt.

A Public Service Announcement.

[tnv]

I'm trying not to be toooo technical...but...one more question whilst we're on the subject. I'm left eye dominant, so should I use the left or right eye of a newt. I understand that many may feel this is a very minor detail...but EVERYTHING counts when absolute accuracy is the end goal. tnv

p.s. And a suggestion. Try shooting newts at 200-300 yards. Not only will it improve your shooting skills, if you go for a body shot...you can save the heads and harvest the eyes. I suspect this would make the PETA people happier, since we're recycling the newts!

[montana_charlie]

I'm left eye dominant, so should I use the left or right eye of a newt. I understand that many may feel this is a very minor detail...
If you were using the erstwhile substitute, gekko eye, it would make a noticeable difference...but only if you knew which handed (footed?) the creature was while still alive ( ie. left-handed gekko - right eye, and so forth).
Newts being ambidextrous, both eyes are equally beneficial when properly prepared and stored.


p.s. And a suggestion. Try shooting newts at 200-300 yards...
Exceedingly fine shot though I am, I just won't risk damaging such a rare and valuable commodity...not to mention what such a quick death does to the shelf life of the organs in question.

For long range practice shooting I will stay with that useless and damaging pest, the miller moth.
I keep a few mounted trophies in view for those times when the STPBLS trucks are roaming the area (that reminds me of a story about those guys...but, another time, perhaps).
CM

[Blammer]

but under a harvest moon a thong must be worn.....

[Whitespider]

Ooooooooooh Lord,:groner: what’s my wife gonna’ think when she sees me standing over a lead pot in the driveway naked, under a full moon? What’s she gonna’ say when I start lookin’ for Warlock Supplies in the yellow pages? I know she’ll put me in a rubber room when I start shoppin’ for thongs at Victoria Secret. She thought I’d gone off my rocker when she found me smeltin’ WWs, all the smoke and stink.

Ooooooooooh Lord,:groner: what have you guys gotten me into? But there’s no turnin’ back now, I’m having way too much fun. You guys are SURE I need a thong? Please tell me black is OK, I look real bad in red or pink.

Ooooooooooh Lord,:groner: my wife just isn’t gonna’ understand this, she’ll probably start crying and tell the kids that daddy’s going away on a long, long trip.

[NuJudge]

the hardness will vary, even when the alloys are the same, depending on it's age. This is NOT a matter of "work hardening." My question...is this the same with lead and lead alloys? If I cast 200 bullets from a supply of lead ingots, then a year later cast another 200 with the same ingots alloy, will the older bullets cast a year earlier be harder?

One can make certain generalizations about all metals. Metals spontaneously reorganize at the crystalographic level when their temperature reaches about half of their absolute melting temperature, in degrees Kelvin (degrees C + 273) or Rankin (degrees F + 460). Metallurgically, Lead is at a very high temperature at room temperature, a little above its recrystallization temperature.

In recrystalization, the metal atoms in the crystallographic lattice reorganize to try to reduce strains on the lattice. There are lots of different sources of strain. The effect of cold work on it. Atoms of a different element which have a 'diameter' close enough to that of Lead to sort of fit in a Lead crystal lattice, substituting for a Lead atom. Atoms of a different element which have a much different 'diameter' and get jammed interstitially into the Lead lattice. Big or small particles of foreign compounds. The less strain on the lattice, the easier the Lead should bend, stretch, compress, twist, etc.

If a Lead alloy is recrystallizing, and from my readings most should be at room temperature, it should be softer after a lengthy period of time. If you 'Work' Lead, you probably provide an impetus for more speedy recrystallization, giving an effect my Profs spoke of as 'Work Softening' in Lead.

The Age-Hardening phenomena you describe in Aluminium is quite different. At room temperature, Aluminum is nowhere near 50% of its absolute melting temperature. At room temperature, atoms are not moving fast, but they are moving fast enough to form little dots of foreign compounds to tie up deformation called 'Age Hardening'. One can speed up the process by heating the Aluminium. The effect on tieing up deformation increases as the dots of compounds get larger, but only up to a certain size, after which my Profs spoke of them as 'over aged.'

CDD

[montana_charlie]

[but] under a harvest moon a thong must be worn.....
On occasion, I read (or hear) what can only be called a 'statement of fact' (such as the one above) which I find myself unable to make any sense of...and therefore begin to fear that I may be in danger of making some monumental error due to my lack of understanding.

Long ago I purchased a thong to don for late night cavorting under moons of various phases. Having cavorted much (perhaps even to excess) over the years, my thong gradually became worn. Would this put me in compliance with that part of the statement which reads, "a thong must be worn", or is my misunderstanding so deep that even a single phrase is beyond my grasp?

In any event, my thong became worn most noticeably in the area which might correspond with the 'o'...reducing that area to the point where it most resembles an 'i'. So, my thong has become a thing.

Now, when the time is prime for cavorting in the light of the moon (harvest or otherwise), I will most often grab my thing...a most satisfying action when preparing to cavort.

And, yes it's true that most other cavorters will be sporting thongs, while their things (if they have any) will not be visible.
But I find myself strangely reticent to inform a thonged cavorter that he is outside, in public, and not wearing a thing. It's tough to cavort properly if one feels self-concious.

Personally, I would not feel terribly underdressed if I had forgotten to grab my thing, because (regardless of the age of my attire) I will also be wearing a poncho, with the hood drawn up over my head and the drawstring firmly tied beneath my chin.

I can hear you asking, "Why?"

In the 'cataract thread' we have all learned what disasterous effect sunshine can have on clear vision. Only the most unconcious among us will be unaware of how moonshine can destroy clear thinking.

And...if a law enforcement officer (working the night shift) finds you cavorting in public, under a harvest moon, while clad in nothing but a thong...and asks why you are not wearing a thing...you better be able to think clearly when you look him in the eye and say, "Well, Newt, it goes like this..."
CM

[Goatlips]

Montana Charlie,

You give a new twist to the phrase, "make it snappy". :mrgreen:
Thanks fer that one! :wink:

Goatlips

[walltube]

You thing thongs at the moon light? Inna noode?

OY!

Y.T.,

Wt.

[Ed Barrett]

One thing you can be sure of with this nude casting, you will be VERY CAREFUL!!!!!

[tnv]

Okay, so I understand the liquid flux state modifies the hexagonal crystal structure lattice. However, that applies only in a liquid flux state, and lead hardens as it approaches the 50% melt temperature. And of course we also have to contend with the surface tension interface matrix as the temperatures change. We have to consider the local field distribution near the interface separating two dielectric media (provided by the various alloy additions), modeled by two different lattices of dipoles meeting at a planar interface. By using the transfer matrix formulation in combination with the Lekner summation method, the local field distribution near the interface can be obtained. Which leads me to question the flux vrs. stasis theory. It appears that we should never shoot lead bullets unless they are lower then the 50% melt temperature. Or am I missing something? tnv