Off the wall melting pot?

[I'll Make Mine]

I'm on a tight budget. I've got Lee molds on the way, along with a ladle, I've got a small one burner camp stove that should easily handle melting ten pounds or so at a time, and I should be able to find a skimmer at Goodwill or one of the other local thrift stores (the donor most likely thought it was a roncible, a spoon-strainer for serving boiled vegetables and such, though if I can't find better I'll get an old stainless tablespoon and weld an extension on the handle). I've got a cast iron muffin/biscuit/corn bread pan I haven't used in years to cast ingots. Now I need a pot or two to smelt and cast from.

I have a couple small "porcelain" enamel coated iron saucepans; the small one is one quart (should hold ten pounds or more of lead), the larger two quarts (bigger pot to smelt wheel weights -- should hold ten pounds on a cold load, even with the air space). I haven't cooked in them in a very long time, because the wood cores are gone out of the handles, leaving a hollow stub four inches or so long -- not a major problem for smelting and casting, since I'll most likely only need to pick up the pot when it's been ladled almost empty and an oven mitt or potholder, or welding glove, will cover the short time I need to hold it at that point.

What I'm not certain about is whether melting lead in a enamel coated pot will work at all. The last time I cooked in these, they weren't much if any slower to heat than a stainless pan of similar size; my concern is whether the porcelain will have any adverse effects. I wouldn't think so, since the enamel is inert enough for food prep -- but casting alloy is a good bit hotter than I've ever gotten these pots in their previous life. One possible problem I foresee is the coating cracking when the iron inside expands more than it ever did on the range top -- but the only way I know to be sure of that is to try it (if it does, I may just get my propane torch and encourage it; plain iron works just fine for casting). Anything else I should watch for, or am I blazing new trail here?

[Bill*]

I used one ( just once ) and the porcelain ( or whatever the shiny dark grey with white speckles in it coating is ) melted a bit to the exposed electric coils of a hotplate. It then got stuck to the coil and I had to pry it off. Not very safe when it still had a couple of pounds of molten lead in it. Not sure how it would work over a camp stove though. My point is that the coating might not be able to handle the temps needed for smelting. I then got a SS pot and all's well. Hope this helps

[BeeMan]

I'd be concerned that the higher temperature involved might cause the enamel to spall off the interior in the pan. I'm not sure I'd want chips of a very hard material floating in my casting alloy.

[I'll Make Mine]

The coating on these pots is orange fading to red on the outside, and white on the inside, but I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff that's on big turkey roaster pans and such -- an enamel (essentially, colored glass) that melts well below the melting point of the iron on which it's applied. I wouldn't think it would melt at lead temps, Bill, I think you had trouble because of the bright-red temperature of the heating coils. The only part of my camp stove burner that gets red is the very bottom of the pot support that's actually inside the flame; the pot will be in contact with the generator, which certainly doesn't run red. I will certainly try heating the pots before I try melting anything in them...

As for stuff floating in the lead, as long as it floats, it doesn't worry me much (I can skim it off). Still, something to watch for...

[375RUGER]

You can blaze a trail and let us know or just use a $3 1.5 qt stainless sauce pan from the thrift store. That's what I dip my ladle in, it holds about 20#.
I mix my alloy in a 6 qt stainless pot (maybe it's 8 qt), it holds 70#. I think it cost $7 at the thrift store.

Maybe you can blast the coating off of the cast iron then you don't have to worry about it.
I personally would outfit the CI with new handles and continue to cook with them if they are not damaged beyond use.

[D Crockett]

I'll make mine I will send you a old plumers pot for free and any thing else I can think of that you will need to start casting it should hold 10 to 15lbs of lead ok it not doing me any good just sitting on a shelf in my storage roon only thing I ask is you pay the postage on it pm me and let me know if you would like to have it from one tar heel to another D Crockett

[imashooter2]

A quart of lead weighs ~23.75 pounds. An 8 quart pot should have at least a 6 quart working weight of ~140 pounds. My Coleman stove could handle ~40 pounds before melt time just got unreasonable. Make sure you have enough support to make your pot stable. Standing in even 10 pounds of molten metal will ruin your day.

[I'll Make Mine]

You can blaze a trail and let us know or just use a $3 1.5 qt stainless sauce pan from the thrift store. That's what I dip my ladle in, it holds about 20#.
I mix my alloy in a 6 qt stainless pot (maybe it's 8 qt), it holds 70#. I think it cost $7 at the thrift store.

I've been searching the thrift stores for weeks and haven't seen a stainless or iron pot in that time (other than a frying pan missing the wood handle section, which I bought for $2 and now realize would be bad for smelting because wider = less stable).

The handles on these two pots are socketed; I don't know how the wood was originally retained (I'm not even certain there was wood, but the sockets are too short to get a good grip with a pot holder).


A quart of lead weighs ~23.75 pounds. An 8 quart pot should have at least a 6 quart working weight of ~140 pounds. My Coleman stove could handle ~40 pounds before melt time just got unreasonable. Make sure you have enough support to make your pot stable. Standing in even 10 pounds of molten metal will ruin your day.

I won't argue with that -- but it sounds like my pots will hold more than I thought. This Feather 400 stove, on the other hand, with all the weight supported on the font and its three stamped aluminum folding feet, I'd worry about if I had 20+ pounds of lead plus the 2-3 pounds for the small pot, so I'll probably limit melts to a maximum of fifteen pounds (a gallon aluminum camp pot full of water weighs close to ten pounds, so fifteen should be okay). I'm not interested in volume production; I just don't shoot that much. I am interested in not spending money I don't have to...

[Dave Bulla]

The coating on these pots is orange fading to red on the outside, and white on the inside, but I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff that's on big turkey roaster pans and such

Hmmm.... You might just be sitting of a few bucks you don't realize. That sounds like a "Le Creuset" pot and if it is, you could probably sell it on fleabay for enough to buy some decent stuff. Pretty high end enameled cast iron in the cooking world. If it is, you might get $40 or $50 bucks for that pot pretty easily.

Does it look like this? Take note of the asking price... Of course this one is new but just sayin'. Don't let your wife see.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SIGNATURE-Le-Creuset-9-quart-Round-Dutch-Oven-FLAME-ORANGE-COLOR-in-MFG-Box-/370661357226?pt=Cookware&hash=item564d2376aa

Or this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Le-Creuset-6-75-Qt-Enameled-Cast-Iron-Oval-French-Dutch-Oven-Flame-New-/160882310058?pt=Cookware&hash=item2575553baa

[I'll Make Mine]

Nope, what I have is apparently a cheap knockoff -- one in similar condition is closing soon at $12.99 with no bids (though mine have the lids). It's Descoware, made in Belgium; here's one that still has the wood handle (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Descoware-Le-Creuset-8-Skillet-in-Orange-Flame-/290790274874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b473773a), though most I see in a quick search don't. Based on the starting bids and actual bids, there's no collector value at all without the wood handle, and not much even with it (the "vintage" items are selling for about what new cast iron does).

[Dave Bulla]

Well, it that's what you have, I wonder what it would take to burn the enamel completely off of it? Once it's gone, either add a wooden handle in the socket or drill two holes in the rim for a wire bail type handle. Gotta take a ton of heat though I bet. Probably less work to just look for a regular cast iron pot.

Sorry you weren't sitting on a two or three hundred pot.

[I'll Make Mine]

Sorry you weren't sitting on a two or three hundred pot.

So am I. :x I'm not going to buy a new cast iron pot, never mind two of them; that'd cost more than the dies I still need to get.

I have a suspicion that I could get the enamel off these by heating them (empty) as hot as the camp stove can get them, then quenching in cold water, but I'm not sure that won't crack the cast iron. I don't really expect the enamel to soften noticeably at casting temps (say, under 700º F); this isn't the home craft enamel that kids use to make pins and that melts in a home oven; it was put on cookware by people who presumably knew what they were doing, and ought to be able to stand up to preheating dry on a gas burner.

I'll find out in a couple weeks; I don't have a skimmer yet, and even if I find one at Goodwill tomorrow, I'm spending my spare time this weekend making final preps for Appleseed next weekend (need to make an adapter to mount my male thread, 8-32 UNF bore brush on the Russian male thread 8-32 Whitworth cleaning rod). Once that's in the bag, I've got one weekend to spare before opening day of hunting season, during which I'll need to get my rifle sights zeroed for my hunting ammunition (which I expect to have significantly different impact point than the surplus I've been shooting up to now and will be shooting at Appleseed) -- good thing that's payday, I'll have to drive 60 miles each way to a range and spend at least $10 on range fees for that operation.

[imashooter2]

Just use one. If the enamel does spall, it'll just float to the top and get skimmed off like any other trash.

[I'll Make Mine]

Just use one. If the enamel does spall, it'll just float to the top and get skimmed off like any other trash.

Exactly.

[I'll Make Mine]

Well, a follow up here -- I just did a test melt. Started with the larger of the two Descoware pots half full of clip-on wheel weights -- best guess, around ten pounds -- checked (cold) that the tiny Feather 400 camp stove would hold the weight (yes, though the flimsy stamped aluminum legs bother me; I'll probably make a stand to fit the font with the legs folded under), and fired it up.

Fifteen minutes later, I had a full melt, every single weight reduced to liquid, though I didn't skim or flux this time (didn't bring out my ingot mold, don't have welding gloves yet). Not a single hint of distress from either the pot or the stove (the burner chugged a little, but that's normal for gasoline stoves when you run them on high setting for a while). At that point, I turned off the stove, and the pot is sitting on top, cooling; I'll put it away when it's cold (I didn't want to use a kitchen pot holder around the lead). I'll also check how much of the pint tank capacity I used, but I doubt it was a bunch; this stove is supposed to hold enough fuel for a weekend of camping, which would involve several burns as long as this one or longer.

Looks like I'm in the home stretch, with skimmers from the dollar store (stainless steel strainers, three for a buck) and employee discount on welding gloves at work. My molds and ladle have been ordered, and my bucket of wheel weights is about one third sorted. I should be casting well before Christmas, maybe as early as Thanksgiving.

[Sabaharr]

To smelt down my raw lead I use a 10" cast iron pot I got at the scrap yard. $5 and it holds about 60 lbs, distributes the heat well, and is tough as cast iron. For a skimmer I got a slotted spoon at the dollar store for, hold on, are you ready for this? A dollar. From there my crawfish boiling burner and 10 gallon propane tank (that I got full at a garage sale for $10) completes the melting setup. Got ingot molds off ebay and a lead ladle at a second hand store that didn't know what it was for, just looked funny and sold for 50 cents. Look around if you are on a tight budget. I personally could have bought everything new if I wanted but have fun getting it for next to nothing. Also you can sell excess ingots on here or ebay and fund future purchases of molds or other accessories making them free for a little labor trouble. I have sold over 500 pounds of lead on ebay and really like getting my shooting accessories from there too, just accept $$$ and buy right out of my Paypal account. Starting to sound like a commercial but it works. I can't say that the lady that picks up my shipped out packages is real thrilled about the process though.

[I'll Make Mine]

I think we're on the same wavelength, Sabaharr -- I've spent about $90 on casting equipment so far, of which $64 was for two molds, a casting ladle, and a push-through sizer (all Lee branded, none delivered so far). Yesterday, I bought an 8" to 6" stovepipe reducer that I'll use to take the weight of the melting pot off the lightweight stove -- need to cut a few holes near the bottom for air inlets, but I have the tools for that. A roll of hardware cloth will make a grid to hold the smaller pot that won't bridge the stovepipe -- leaving approximately 85% of the $10 roll for other things. I'm getting a pair of welding gloves at employee discount, well under $10 -- and once I have those (and the molds arrive) I'll be ready to cast.

[imashooter2]

The Lee casting "ladle" is more of a teaspoon except without the teaspoon's rugged construction. Do yourself a favor and get a Lyman or RCBS dipper if you are going to ladle cast. I'd wager a "want to buy" ad will turn one up at very reasonable cost.

[I'll Make Mine]

The Lee casting "ladle" is more of a teaspoon except without the teaspoon's rugged construction. Do yourself a favor and get a Lyman or RCBS dipper if you are going to ladle cast. I'd wager a "want to buy" ad will turn one up at very reasonable cost.

Advice noted -- the photos on the web aren't good enough to tell this. The Lyman (3/4 sphere with the spout) is what I wanted, but 5x the price was hard to swallow. I'll see if I can find a soup ladle at Goodwill or the dollar store to bend; otherwise, I'll shop for a used Lyman.

[Any Cal.]

I think i spent five dollars plus the cost of a mold for my first several hundred bullets. Free pots and skimmer, homemade ladle, homemade lube, camp stove for casting and pan lube. You don't HAVE to spend lots to get started. That being said, spending money makes things go faster and easier. Whether that matters is up to you.

[imashooter2]

Advice noted -- the photos on the web aren't good enough to tell this. The Lyman (3/4 sphere with the spout) is what I wanted, but 5x the price was hard to swallow. I'll see if I can find a soup ladle at Goodwill or the dollar store to bend; otherwise, I'll shop for a used Lyman.

A soup ladle is going to be too large to cast with. Good for making ingots though.

[Griz44mag]

Look around the garage sales. Good deals can be had.
I picked up a 10" and a 12" cast iron dutch oven set for 5 bucks. They had some rust on them so they were worthless to her.
A long handled SS ladle for 50 cents, perfect for casting ingots.
A restaurant style SS deep pot spoon with a 2-1/2' handle for 2 bucks
A turkey fryer jet burner for 10 bucks
2 propane bottles for 7 bucks each. They had to old style valve on them, but Blue Rhino exchanged them anyway.
and
19 - 20# sash weights for 5 bucks each. She thought they were cast iron and was putting them in the recycle bin.

The deals are out there, you just have to go find them.

[I'll Make Mine]

Well, it looks like this is going to work; I can improve things as I can afford to spend money, but I'll be able to smelt wheel weights and cast bullets with the setup I have now -- I smelted two pots full this afternoon.

(click on the thumbnails to be linked to the full size, 800x600 images)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_StoveCoverandStove.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=StoveCoverandStove.jpg)

This is the little Coleman Feather 400 camp stove inside the stovepipe adapter I got to protect against the stove's legs collapsing. I wound up being unable to use the cover for actual melting: I found I couldn't fit it over the stove when the burner valve was open to the "high" setting, and I also found I needed to pump the stove periodically to restore flame volume and heat production.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_PotLadleandStoveCover.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=PotLadleandStoveCover.jpg)

Here's the pot that started this thread, sitting on the stove with the stove inside the cover. A little adjustment of the cover and more cuts would have let the cover take the weight of the pot while allowing air to enter at the bottom and exit at the top, around the pot. I may return to my original plan of making a base for the stove that holds the font with the legs folded under, but for now, the stove holds the pot and a melt that produces around nine pounds of ingots -- it'll do.

The ladle I'm using at present started out as a stainless serving spoon, $2 at Big Lots; I heated it up with a propane torch and forged the bowl deeper, narrowed the small end, and bent the handle for comfortable pouring. The handle stayed cool enough, at least when stirring and pouring these smelts, to hold comfortably with a TIG welding glove; I'll see soon how well it does when I leave the ladle in the melt as I cast actual boolits.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_IngotfromFirstMelt.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=IngotfromFirstMelt.jpg)

Here's one of the ingots from the first melt.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_HeelfromFirstMelt.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=HeelfromFirstMelt.jpg)

And here's the "heel" left in the pot after ladling and then pouring the metal out. I thought at first that the texture indicated I had zinc contamination (I did have one weight that wouldn't melt, but wasn't as intact when I skimmed it out as a steel one would have been, so I probably do have a small amount of zinc in this alloy) -- but I tested with vinegar and got no reaction whatever, where pure zinc will bubble vigorously even with the 5% acetic acid strength of kitchen vinegar, so I threw the heel back in the pot for the second melt. I think the texture is from antimony, and the pot getting cold as I poured the last of the metal.

BTW, the old oak leaves seem to work well for flux; after skimming the clips out, I added a handful of the ATF contaminated oak leaves from my carport, stirred, lit the smoke once they were going well, and kept stirring until the leaves were reduced to charcoal, then skimmed. The fluxed melt was bright and clean-looking on the surface.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_SecondMeltStarted.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=SecondMeltStarted.jpg)

Here's the second pot full under way. As you can see, I segregated my wheel weights, melting only clip-on style for this first session; I also have a fair percentage, maybe 25% by weight, of the very soft stick-on weights. I plan to melt those separately and combine them with the clip-on weights in a controlled mixture to control hardness of my boolits.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_TwoPotsWorthofIngots.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=TwoPotsWorthofIngots.jpg)

Here are two pots worth of ingots still in the muffin tin. I had a last minute change of plan; instead of the cast iron muffin pan, which has rather rough cavities, I went with this non-stick steel tin, with very smooth, seamless cavities. I'm pretty sure these ingots were easier to remove from the tin than they would have been in the cast iron; all I had to do was flip the tin and let it land sharply, and all six ingots dropped out cleanly.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_TheBeginningofaStash.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=TheBeginningofaStash.jpg)

And here are six ingots, each close to three pounds. This little setup (on which I've spent virtually nothing, if I don't count the stovepipe adapter I wound up not using) produced these in about an hour and a half, from lighting the stove for the first melt, to cleaned up for the day, and did it on less than half a pint of camp fuel.

This will do until I can afford to spend money on improvements.

[Bullet Caster]

Well, I think you're off to a very good start. I picked up a 10" cast iron flat bottom (reallly old-from the late 1800's, the man told me) pot to melt my lead in. It cost a whopping $8.00--he gave me a $2.00 discount. Will be firing up the old 1960's Coleman camp stove pretty soon as I have about 2000 9mm boolits to cast and 400 200 grainers for the .30-06. I inherited the camp stove from my wife's parents who are now deceased. I also got a double mantle Coleman gas lantern as well to go along with my single mantle lantern (red one).

My biggest problem is lead acquisition. I've checked at all the tire shops and they tell me that someone is picking up their lead already. My first 1000 boolits were pretty much free since I had saved an inch thick piece of lead that was about two feet in diameter with 4 holes in it. I found out it was pure lead so had to mix in a little linotype for added tin. And thanks to LoveLife, 45Nut, OBIII and Recluse I had some extra lead and supplies that they sent me. You guys really rock.

Good luck and continued success. BC

[I'll Make Mine]

Other folks have been saying a frying pan isn't the best choice for casting; too much heat loss and oxidation on the large surface area, and too shallow to readily get the ladle filled to pour the boolits. Something narrower and deeper is a better choice -- an old stainless saucepan is about as good as it gets, and a two quart pan will hold about twenty pounds of lead with comfortable freeboard; plenty for casting, if a little small for smelting (perhaps not too small on a camp stove burner, however).

For lead acquisition, you might call local recycling and scrap yards to see if they sell scrap lead, and in what form; one local to me sells scrap at 90 cents a pound, which is more than I'd pay for a bucket of wheel weights from a tire store (I've got less than 35 cents a pound into the ingots above, for scrap and fuel), but if it's clean lead scrap, isn't terrible (I have to find out when I get closer to the bottom of the bucket I've been sorting from).

Meanwhile, I managed to cast some boolits this afternoon -- got a number of nice 90 grain SWC that mic at .316-.317 from a nominal .314 mold, and a few good 180 grain round nose that come in very consistently at .311 from a nominal .309.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/th_FreshBoolits.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Smelting%20Wheel%20Weights%20into%20Ingots/?action=view&current=FreshBoolits.jpg)