I love Pyrodex!

[waksupi]

Okay, now that I have your attention, PAY attention. This forum is for sharing information on loading for BPCR type rifles. This means it is not just for competition shooters, that means EVERYONE who are shooting these rifles, in whatever configuration, from whatever manufacturer, or whatever powder they choose to use in them.
Any more condescending remarks, or telling someone to go somewhere else with their question will be deleted. If the person(s) persist, we will take a bit more affirmative action on the subject.
I DO hope I am perfectly clear on these points.

[montana_charlie]

or whatever powder they choose to use in them.
That negates the original reason for splitting the Single Shot Forum into two venues.
Also negates my reasons for reading and participating on this forum.
You don't shoot BPCR, do you?

Already you have a thread where a guy wants to use a BP and smokeless duplex load in his Remington 870 (snort!) to horn in on the BP and Archery season in his state.
Now that you've made this forum the way you want it, you can KEEP my share of it.

CM

[waksupi]

As a matter of fact, I shot BPCR competition for over twenty years. We are not going to permit the elitism as is found on a couple other forums to happen here. We are here to promote shooting in all of it's forms. If you don't have any input on someone's question, ignore it and let someone else answer it.

[Mooseman]

I too shoot BPCR rifles as well as muzzleloaders and I use Black Powder and Pyrodex as well as smokeless powders too, And it is all about the shooting and the sport fun of it and whatever people want to try. I have never had anyone tell me what to load one way or another from Florida to Alaska . I would have told them where to go and how to get there.
We need to keep the sport alive and encourage new people to join in so when we are gone the tradition will continue...BP, Pyrodex, smokeless, It's ALL GOOD !

Rich

[Don McDowell]

I can see letting the threads about pyrodex and other so called subs go , but when the Black Powder Cartridge BPCR,your place for combining the Holy Black and Brass (as described right at the top of this page) gets into duplex, and smokeless then it ceases to be "Black Powder Cartridge BPCR,your place for combining the Holy Black and Brass."

As to keeping the traditon alive that's not going to happen when there's no place for folks to be able to ask and seek information about the use of blackpowder in cartridges. Without subforums like this one dissappear or get convoluted then how will folks find out , that blackpowder is easy to clean up, accurate and won't rot your gun barrel off....

[waksupi]

When a person can come into a BP forum and ask questions to get started, it encourages them to move forward into shooting black powder in the future. That makes another person in the game, and furthers the sport.
When we started the muzzleloader forum, I was thinking flintlocks and patched round balls. I'm not sure the inline/sabot shooters don't have more posts there. Aside from poking fun at times, I just skip the topics, as those are things I know little to nothing about. However, there have been some that started that way, and have went on to traditional muzzle loaders. Works the same with BPCR. People just need the encouragement, to get their feet wet.
As I said before, we are here to educate. And we are well known for going off topic.

[JeffinNZ]

Take a chill pill Charlie. Each to their own. No one is forcing you to use a a substitute. Let's just keep the knowledge ball rolling.

I have converted to Pyrodex for my shotshell loads because it is significantly cheaper in my neck of woods than BP. It's also freely available. Some of us don't have the luxury of choice that the rest of you have.

[Piedmont]

we will take a bit more affirmative action

Affirmative action on Castboolits......"and the seventh seal was opened...".

[winelover]

I actually do love Pyrodex "P" and made the switch way before I bacame a member here. It works for my applications and the main reason is it is just safer to store inside in my home! I have no outbuildings at this time. BTW, it hasn't rotted my barrels!

Winelover

[KCSO]

I HATE pyrodex... But if someone come to me and asks for help I will tell him #1 I don't use substitute powders so I have no expieirnce and #2 If you want to switch to black powder in a tradition venue I will try and help you. As I sit here I am facing a wall of traditional rifles and pistols all using black powder, not an inline or a pyrodex pellet gun in sight. Buut if I can be nice and make one convert a year i figure I am doing pretty good.

And just for the record 99% of the pyrodex and inliine crowd I turn away say, "Well I'm noot interested in muxxlelooading ot BPCR i just want to hunt another season".
#&*@#$%'s !!!!

[Don McDowell]

When a person can come into a BP forum and ask questions to get started, it encourages them to move forward into shooting black powder in the future. That makes another person in the game, and furthers the sport.
.

Rick I absolutely agree with you. But by the same token when a person comes into a BP forum and starts right off with smokeless, and duplex , it's blatantly obvious it's in the wrong place, and in some instances the OP of the thread has not much intention other than starting a SHXT war which they are famous for by other names on other boards.
A good example, for seperation of different aspects is the paper patch forums here, while there is a little crossover posting between the smokeless and bp sections the two systems are as different as night and day. What works in the bp paper patching may or most likely won't work for sour grapes in smokeless.
Again I have little to no use for the so called subs, here in the US blackpowder is merely a phone call away, and if I don't want the rigors of firing blackpowder , well that's why we have IMR , Alliant etc...
If you're going to have a place for "Black Powder Cartridge BPCR,your place for combining the Holy Black and Brass." and keeping the tradition alive, then the tradition needs to be kept nearly as intact as possible, or you run into **** like is found on most of the muzzle loading forums today, and the claims of the experts that round balls are inaccurate and incapable of killing anything past 50 yds, most especially in a twist slower than 1-48......

[drcook]

Maybe there should be a new Topic/Forum created that is titled:

BPSCR- BP Substitute Cartridge Rifles, the place to discuss other than BP.........................

[Texantothecore]

I agree with you Waksupi, there is no room for elitism on the forum. That is one of the reasons I am on this board daily. Some of the other boards can become extremely obnoxious.

I have played around with the subs but ended up back at black powder because it is so much easier to clean and of course the lack of a massive aromatic cloud is also a big factor.

[MikeS]

I agree 100% with keeping elitism off the board.

My first experiences with 'black powder' was in fact with pyrodex. Back then it was because it was much easier to get. I've since switched to using real black powder, and intend to keep it that way, but if in the beginning if I asked a question, and got told to ask it somewhere else, I would have probably not bothered with this aspect of the shooting sport anymore. I don't see anything wrong with telling people about the relative merits of using the real stuff, but doing it in an educational way, not putting down the person for not using the real stuff. People that start with subs are either going to do one of 3 things, either stay using the sub of their choice, or convert to using black, or just walk away from the sport altogether. I would hate to think that somebody lost interest in the sport because of the treatment they got on one of these CB forums! As long as somebody stays in the sport there's always a chance they'll try real black powder, then decide for themselves which powder they choose.

I personally see the folks using ultra modern inline rifles shooting jacketed bullets from a sabot using some kind of pelletized powder as 'gamers' more interested in getting in more hunting, rather than any real interest in the historical sport of shooting BPCR or even traditional muzzle loading. I would rather talk with / help out a person shooting BPCR rifle (or traditional side-lock muzzleloader) with pyrodex than someone with an inline muzzle loader shooting sabot loads with real black powder. For me at least it's more about the shooting and mastering of a fine old BPCR rifle (or modern repro of one) than exactly what kind of powder they're shooting. Having said that, I still wouldn't talk down to anyone for what they're shooting, after all, even an inline sabot shooter can be shown how enjoyable using more traditional tools can be. As you said, if somebody wants info about something I don't know about, I'm just going to not respond to it, and go on to the threads that do interest me. It does me no harm if there are threads I don't agree with, or want to deal with, I just ignore them, it's easy.

Thanks for clarifying what's acceptable to post about, it allows folks to talk about what they're doing or are interested in without worry about not being able to say Pyrodex or 777, or whatever propellant they're using.

[oldred]

Pretty much the way I see it also, I don't post much on the BPCR forum because I am still new to BP cartridge loading and rarely have anything of value to add but I read the section everyday-it's become one of my favorites in fact. I have in the past asked "What's the point of using a sub in a BPCR?" and this was an honest question not an attempt to belittle or put down the practice. While I honestly fail to see the lure of the stuff in a cartridge (it makes sense in some muzzle loaders) since it takes stretching the imagination to the breaking point to think it's BP shooting I also point out that if a person chooses to use it for whatever reason then fine, go ahead, have fun and to each their own! I like to point out that shooting the subs is simply a third kind of shooting, neither BP nor smokeless, so why put up with the mess and corrosive nature of the stuff? Since the subs are not BP and have so many totally different attributes (not the least of which is higher pressures!) they are not BP shooting so why not just use a BP equivalent load of smokeless instead and avoid the hassles? (Or much better yet just shoot the real stuff! :razz:) Again these are questions for discussion and not in any way meant to mean a "do it my way or no way" attitude and I honestly can not understand why some get so upset by what someone else wants to shoot! Elitism and just plain old BP hype that's based on more nostalgia than anything else is much more likely to turn off a new shooter to the sport than win them over, "shoot what I like or get lost" does not make a very good impression!

[montana_charlie]

This forum is for sharing information on loading for BPCR type rifles.
We have had threads (with no disparaging remarks) that focused on revolver cartridges (antique and modern) and rifle cartridges used primarily in lever guns and bolt action rifles. I think there was even a thread where somebody asked if black powder would clog up the gas system in an AR.

We have been VERY accomodating about almost any "cartridge" that somebody wanted to load with black powder. After all, putting some Goex 3f in a varmit load DOES create a "Black Powder Cartridge".

So, we have NOT been insistent about the o/p sticking with "BPCR-type rifles" (your term).

When it comes to powders ...
When threads on 'other propellants' have started up on this forum, there has usually been a period of acceptance where the author is allowed to state his case, and get some answers ... often supplied by some of the members you call 'elitists'.

Only when it becomes apparent that the o/p is unaware of (or doesn't care about) the unique nature of this section that people start to suggest that he will find better response on the Single Shot Forum.
Those suggestions are usually 'gentle' in the beginning, and only become more pointed if he becomes 'militant' about having his way.

An example of that whole sequence can be found in the posts made by oldred between April of 2011 and January of 2012. For nine months after he arrived on this site he was absolutely insistent that we WOULD use this forum for his purposes.

But, the title of the forum does say this is the place "for combining Holy Black and Brass".

There is only one propellant on this earth called "Holy Black". The use of that term specifically identifies this discussion area as one for those 'purists' who wish to exchange knowledge about that aspect of shooting.

"Holy Black" may be seen by some (like you) as an elitist term. If it is, that elitism was built into this forum when it was created.
Was that accidental? Was it a mistake? Is it a detail that is subject to arbitrary elimination merely because a Moderator happens to love Pyrodex?


If you don't have any input on someone's question, ignore it and let someone else answer it.
That is exactly what I have always done on the Single Shot Forum. I don't have anything to offer on many of those threads, so I stay out of them.
But (I have always thought) this section is different. That it exists to cover a particular area of interest in which I hope to be able to participate in most of the discussions.

Obviously, that is no longer true. It is now Waksupi's Forum with the misleading description ... where Holy Black has no particular meaning.

Do I misunderstand ... ?

CM

[Dean D.]

I agree 100% with keeping elitism off the board.

As you said, if somebody wants info about something I don't know about, I'm just going to not respond to it, and go on to the threads that do interest me. It does me no harm if there are threads I don't agree with, or want to deal with, I just ignore them, it's easy.


MikeS, well said and right to the point on this threads original intent. I really do wish more people would take this bit of advice when posting anywhere on this forum. We pride ourselves on maintaining a welcoming, educating, community minded and civilized spirit here at Cast Boolits. Unlike many forums on the net today sadly. I hope we all can do our part to keep this website the BEST there is on the net for our little niche in the shooting world. [smilie=s:

[Don McDowell]

Sometimes tho I have seen the charge of eletism cast about, when in fact it was no more than someone speaking from the confidence of hard won experience and graduation with honors from the school of hard knocks.

[waksupi]

Sometimes a person just doesn't know the proper forum to ask a question, or topic in which to put it. If you see a topic started like this, simply use the (!) to report it, and suggest it be moved. It most likely will be moved.
However, is there is a topic underway, and someone has a question related to some other powder or projectile, it is quite common here for some other poster to have experience with it, and can answer the question.
As for bashing the origin of a firearm, that is just totally unacceptable. You shoot what you can get. Getting the boolit out of the tube with accuracy is what we are about.

[MBTcustom]

Pretty much the way I see it also, I don't post much on the BPCR forum because I am still new to BP cartridge loading and rarely have anything of value to add but I read the section everyday-it's become one of my favorites in fact. I have in the past asked "What's the point of using a sub in a BPCR?" and this was an honest question not an attempt to belittle or put down the practice. While I honestly fail to see the lure of the stuff in a cartridge (it makes sense in some muzzle loaders) since it takes stretching the imagination to the breaking point to think it's BP shooting I also point out that if a person chooses to use it for whatever reason then fine, go ahead, have fun and to each their own! I like to point out that shooting the subs is simply a third kind of shooting, neither BP nor smokeless, so why put up with the mess and corrosive nature of the stuff? Since the subs are not BP and have so many totally different attributes (not the least of which is higher pressures!) they are not BP shooting so why not just use a BP equivalent load of smokeless instead and avoid the hassles? (Or much better yet just shoot the real stuff! :razz:) Again these are questions for discussion and not in any way meant to mean a "do it my way or no way" attitude and I honestly can not understand why some get so upset by what someone else wants to shoot! Elitism and just plain old BP hype that's based on more nostalgia than anything else is much more likely to turn off a new shooter to the sport than win them over, "shoot what I like or get lost" does not make a very good impression!

I agree with oldred.
Y'all are walking the same line that the Quakers did.
If you have no capacity or desire to reproduce or nurture, the crime carries its own punishment.

[Texantothecore]

Substitutes are, for many new shooters, a "Gateway Powder". Many gun dealers will push them into subs as they would seem to be easier for n00bs to handle. Once we get them on this forum we can get them to switch over particlarly if we explain the differences in cleaning technique, Which is my case is pouring the contents of an issue GI canteen down the bore, drying and then oiling. Very quick. Last time I did it was about a minute in duration.

So including them in our discussions and exposing them to real blackpowder is one of the ways we can increase participation in BPCR.

QED

[Texantothecore]

I agree with oldred.
Y'all are walking the same line that the Quakers did.
If you have no capacity or desire to reproduce or nurture, the crime carries its own punishment.

I think you're thinking of the Shakers the last of whom passed into that great furniture factory in the sky in the mid 1950s. And it is a point well made.

I certainly would like to generate more bp shooters. I teach a good number of people basic shooting every year and I am thinking that the kids in particular would appreciate shooting smaller loads in black powder. Many of the adults would appreciate it too.

[oldred]

An example of that whole sequence can be found in the posts made by oldred between April of 2011 and January of 2012. For nine months after he arrived on this site he was absolutely insistent that we WOULD use this forum for his purposes.CM



Nice try Charlie but I did no such thing and you know it, there was one post in particular that got you riled and in that post I attempted to explain why some might want to shoot smokeless in cartridges that were originally loaded with BP because that's what was available at the time, I never said anyone SHOULD load smokeless just that some folks have a reason to and should not be banished from the section that deals with these rifles in these calibers because they choose to shoot a different powder. It was pointed out to me in that thread that the title SPECIFICALLY stated it was for loading Black Powder in cartridges and I then realized, and admitted, that it was but up until that point I had taken it to mean it was about Black Powder cartridge rifles and calibers specific to them (which is apparently what this thread is affirming). Unlike you I can admit being wrong about something and it does not make me mad when someone does something other than the way I think might be best, get mad as you like, scream and shout and throw all the childish rants you want to but people ARE going to shoot smokeless and BP subs in these cartridges and there's nothing you can do about that!

[alrighty]

I would hate to run off a potential new black powder enthusiast because I thought that they were just trying to stir the pot.I would also hate to give them a bigger spoon to stir it more effectively by arguing with them.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." When an argument flares up a wise man quenches it with silence.

[MBTcustom]

I think you're thinking of the Shakers the last of whom passed into that great furniture factory in the sky in the mid 1950s. And it is a point well made.

I certainly would like to generate more bp shooters. I teach a good number of people basic shooting every year and I am thinking that the kids in particular would appreciate shooting smaller loads in black powder. Many of the adults would appreciate it too.

I apologize, I did mean the Shakers.
The fact remains that both here and on the BPPP section, members are bullied if they ask a question regarding anything other that American made single shot rifles, true black powder, traditional iron sights etc etc. God forbid you suggest loading a 303british with black powder. God forbid you ask about how BPPP shooters make their patches, without also taking an oath to never use that information or transfer it to the smokless PP section or the regular reloading sections. The whole site shares information freely except these two sections and that's why nobody starts threads in those places. Not only do you need thick skin, but you must also be willing to buy information by enduring belittling comments and jabs.
Its a great way to insure a discipline slips into the history books without even stopping to say adios.

[montana_charlie]

Nice try Charlie but I did no such thing and you know it,
To say I said it in error is to say I made a mistake. To say I spoke incorrectly - and knew it - is to say I lied.

Actually. you are right.
What I said is not accurate, and I must retract it. The early threads you were involved in were not located in the BPCR forum, and therefore not posted in 'the wrong place'. I looked them up to make sure I didn't get it wrong, this time.

Now, of course, it no longer matters. Anything goes ...

Sorry for the mixup.
CM

[Don McDowell]

I apologize, I did mean the Shakers.
The fact remains that both here and on the BPPP section, members are bullied if they ask a question regarding anything other that American made single shot rifles, true black powder, traditional iron sights etc etc. God forbid you suggest loading a 303british with black powder. God forbid you ask about how BPPP shooters make their patches, without also taking an oath to never use that information or transfer it to the smokless PP section or the regular reloading sections. The whole site shares information freely except these two sections and that's why nobody starts threads in those places. Not only do you need thick skin, but you must also be willing to buy information by enduring belittling comments and jabs.
Its a great way to insure a discipline slips into the history books without even stopping to say adios.
Post some links to some examples please.

[drcook]

Now, of course, it no longer matters. Anything goes ...


How true How true.

[Awsar]

the way i see it anyone actively involved in shooting no matter what they shoot or what powder is another person on our side to keep it alive.

[Lead pot]

Affirmative action on Castboolits......"and the seventh seal was opened...".


Ah yes. from the book of Revolations 8:1-5.
I read the book several times.

The Seventh Seal and the Golden Censer

" When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and afilled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake."


It will be interesting to see what a few days before and after Christmas will bring

[TXGunNut]

Substitutes are, for many new shooters, a "Gateway Powder". Many gun dealers will push them into subs as they would seem to be easier for n00bs to handle. Once we get them on this forum we can get them to switch over particlarly if we explain the differences in cleaning technique, Which is my case is pouring the contents of an issue GI canteen down the bore, drying and then oiling. Very quick. Last time I did it was about a minute in duration.

So including them in our discussions and exposing them to real blackpowder is one of the ways we can increase participation in BPCR.

QED

My first foray into the loose powder and lead ball discipline involved a couple of BP subs. My dismal experience with them coupled with the well-meaning but ignorant warnings about how messy real bp was kept me from experiencing Holy Black for many years. When I came here awhile back to learn to cast boolits I decided to give the real stuff a try in a BPCR. As we all know, a beautiful cloud of smoke appeared, the heavens parted and trumpets sounded! The quick & easy cleanup was another epiphany. I brought my ball guns out of retirement recently and even shoot BP in a revolver or two these days. 10-15 yrs ago I though BP subs WERE BP, wish I'd learned the truth long ago. I know the OP of the thread that started this urinary competition is well aware of the difference but I agree with Waksupi that we need to show a bit of tolerance to our friends that for whatever reason prefer or must use subs. Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile endeavor. In fact, I find posts about it interesting at times.
Last night I was convinced we needed a BP sub sub-forum and still feel that way. OTOH an off-topic post doesn't bother me near as much as being rude to another member or guest.

[montana_charlie]

Last night I was convinced we needed a BP sub sub-forum and still feel that way.
This is that forum. Anything goes, now.
CM

[oldred]

Charlie did it occur to you that maybe it's better that way? With a dedicated sub forum people who frequent that may never be exposed to the benefits of shooting real BP like they would if they are having a discussion among real BP shooters. It would be a chance to suggest they try the real stuff, explain that clean up is not a major chore and that BP does not rot barrels in minutes and that some of the problems they are trying to avoid by not using BP are actually worse with the subs. The key is suggestion and education, not rudeness and coercion, and if a person still wants to shoot the stuff it's their loss so why on Earth should anyone get mad about it? This is a big forum there's room for everyone and if someone don't like what someone else is discussing just skip the darn thing and go on to another subject, far more people will see the truth about what real BP is all about by friendly discussion than childish "my way is the only way" attitudes. Personally I despise Pyrodex and most other subs and can't for the life of me understand why anyone would shoot the stuff instead of just using smokeless if they are so opposed to BP but I am not going to insist that my opinion be forced on anyone else, everyone knows what opinions are like so why don't we try not be one and all get along, ok?

[Mooseman]

Charlie did it occur to you that maybe it's better that way? With a dedicated sub forum people who frequent that may never be exposed to the benefits of shooting real BP like they would if they are having a discussion among real BP shooters. It would be a chance to suggest they try the real stuff, explain that clean up is not a major chore and that BP does not rot barrels in minutes and that some of the problems they are trying to avoid by not using BP are actually worse with the subs. The key is suggestion and education, not rudeness and coercion, and if a person still wants to shoot the stuff it's their loss so why on Earth should anyone get mad about it? This is a big forum there's room for everyone and if someone don't like what someone else is discussing just skip the darn thing and go on to another subject, far more people will see the truth about what real BP is all about by friendly discussion than childish "my way is the only way" attitudes. Personally I despise Pyrodex and most other subs and can't for the life of me understand why anyone would shoot the stuff instead of just using smokeless if they are so opposed to BP but I am not going to insist that my opinion be forced on anyone else, everyone knows what opinions are like so don't we try not be one and all get along, ok?

AMEN Oldred !!! Amen

[Maven]

No horse in this race, but I wish to point out that I've used Pyrodex RS and P in my .45-70 (Marlin #336, Microgroovy rifling) when I couldn't get the real thing and had NO problems with it at all (none in my ML's either). Sometimes you've got to use what's available, not what's best. BP sold in gunshops, btw, can be prohibitively expensive v. some subs. E.g., I was in a gunshop in Hilliard, O. on Monday and the price for #1 Goex FFFg was $24.99!

The other point concerns the Shakers or The United Society if Believers in Christ's Second Appearing. To wit, they were sometimes called "Shaking Quakers," but they are by no means extinct as they still have a small community in Sabbath Day Lake, ME. And yes, they even attract a few younger people. Here's a Wikipedia link if you'd like to read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers Btw, the late William Kephart's book, "Extraordinary Groups," has a very informative chapter about them, as well as other interesting groups.

[oldred]

Sometimes you've got to use what's available, not what's best. BP sold in gunshops, btw, can be prohibitively expensive.



Probably the most common reason for using the stuff. In another thread just yesterday I pointed out the same thing and it sort of boiled down to one of three choices, (1) drive 65 miles to the only place anywhere close to buy BP, (2) order a couple of pounds then wait for it and pay the substantial extra cost (couldn't use a bulk order for reduced costs), or (3) simply drop by the sporting goods section of Wal-Mart and pick up a couple of jugs of Pyro while I was in there anyway- by far the cheapest and most convenient option. I wanted the real stuff so I chose to order a couple of pounds but that's just me so I ask the same question that I did in that other post, it was worth it to me but given the options is it realistic to expect everyone to do as I did? Personally I think not all things considered and the bottom line is a lot of time the subs are cheaper, easier and faster to get and a lot of folks simply don't care about the difference.



Now after having said that I again want to ask my favorite question concerning subs in a cartridge, this is NOT meant to deride anyone for choosing to do so.

In a modern built cartridge firearm why would a person use a sub? Since it's not BP and looks, loads, shoots and even smells different why use it why not just use a a BP pressure equivalent smokeless load? (assuming of course BP is not an option)

[montana_charlie]

Charlie did it occur to you that maybe it's better that way? With a dedicated sub forum people who frequent that may never be exposed to the benefits of shooting real BP?
What ... ? Do you think that BP shooters never post anywhere else?
You'll find posts from me in the Single Shot Forum on a regular basis, and (because it IS a forum for any and all types of powder) I never try to push any particular idea to others ... and never object if they prefer 'whatever' powder.

But, I (and others) do provide them with the kind of information you just mentioned.

I always show that kind of consideration when posting on 'their forum' and thought I was right to expect similar consideration when they post on 'our forum'.

Boy, was I wrong ...

CM

[JeffinNZ]

Hey Paul! Don't get me started on shaking quakes alright! LOL.

[MikeS]

Charlie, there's only one flaw in your logic. This forum isn't 'our forum' and the other forums aren't 'their forum'. There's only one person that can call any/all of the forums his, and that's Ken (45nut). Everyone else here is a guest, the only thing is some of the guests Ken entrusts to act on his behalf, the moderators. If you were a guest at the home of somebody that keeps a kosher home, then complain that there's no ham for dinner, would you? Or if you kept kosher, you wouldn't go into a Honey Baked Ham store, and complain about what they're selling? Well, Ken thru one of his moderators has said that it's ok to talk about pyrodex, or 777, or whatever powder a person is using. So, as has been mentioned before, when you see somebody needing help with a pyrodex issue, either don't respond, or respond in a neutral or educational manner such as "Well, I've never used pyrodex, but if you were shooting black powder this is what I would do..." etc. Is that really so hard to do? And who knows, by doing that you just might be the influence that makes a person come over to using the real stuff. Now wouldn't that make you feel good? Quite honestly, it was listening to you, and Cajun Shooter that made me decide to leave the subs behind, and shoot real black powder. And thanks for doing that!

[bigted]

i guess im kinda a junior member but i subscribe to many of the sentiments found here concerning origanal blackpowder...not necesarilly the firearms origons. i find that even tho i am permiscuious with my bp shooting and have been guilty of convoluting it with "other" powder...i am most particular in my venture for the pure sport of bp use in cartridges as is promoted here in the title of this section.

however i...like a bunch of others...would very much like to see the addition of another section for posting about duplex...fake black...and smokless loads in these vintage like rifles. to my un-educated perception as a supporter and funder of this cast boolits forum...my vote is definetly for another section for this...as an example;

VINTAGE STYLE FIREARMS... LOADED WITH SMOKLESS, AFTERMARKET BLACKPOWDER, DUPLEX...ECT.

to my thinking this would give a venue for these questions and a place where folks like myself can try to get aquainted and educated with the use of these and other examples of mix-n-match styles. it would also be a place to move the postings about these examples without envolving the crowd that very much enjoys the pure sport of blackpowder in its own style that is so different in nature then all other styles of loading.

i would BEG the moderators to consider this as an alternative to opening this section that involves these other disiplines of shooting these wonderfull firearms with "other" styles of powder combos...and allow the blackpowder to remain as a unique style that deserves its own section for descussion and education.

thankyou all for the oppertunity and place to state my argument for a considered change here. i also read with a chigrin the "threat" of some to simply "stop coming here" and consider this as something of a bullys aproach rather then aproaching this in an adult way and retort with a sugestion rather then some sort of threat. few things will be considered with such a threatening manner.

[Red River Rick]

Now after having said that I again want to ask my favorite question concerning subs in a cartridge, this is NOT meant to deride anyone for choosing to do so.

In a modern built cartridge firearm why would a person use a sub? Since it's not BP and looks, loads, shoots and even smells different why use it why not just use a a BP pressure equivalent smokeless load? (assuming of course BP is not an option)


Oldred:

Good question! I'm sure that's there's a few members here that could help answer that. But not on this thread. It might be best to start a new thread, and see what kind of helpful info will trickle in.

There's been enough energy wasted on this thread already. The point has been made and everyone know where they stand, when the topic crops up again.

It's time to move on and not suck up any more valuable bandwith. And lock, this waste of a thread.

AND NOW.....................ON WITH THE SHOW!

:drinks:

RRR