What to try next?

[Swamp Fox]

I'm trying to work up a load or 2 for my .45/70. This is my first try at a rifle cartridge. My goal is to end up with a good plinking load, and a load suitable for hunting using around 400gr boolits. I've been using the lee 405gr boolits, but can't get the results I want. My best groups are 3-4" at 50 yards with IMR 4198 powder. Thats with a fairly powerful load, basically just before I start getting leading in the barrell. With 10-12 grains of unique and the same boolit I'm getting better groups but not enough power to hunt with.

What should I try next to improve my results? I was thinking of going to the hollow base lee bullet, or the gas check rcbs version. Everything else being equal, will the gas check seal/engage the rifling better? Should I leave the bullet as is and go to a different powder? Whats a good one to try?

[runfiverun]

22-24 grs of 2400 and a tuft of dacron between the boolit and the powder about 1.5 grs is enough.
it will help protect that plain base some and keep the powder against the primer for good ignition.
22 grs will be about 1400 fps ish.

[oldfart1956]

Swamp Fox have you ever tried any Trailboss powder? I've had some good results in my trapdoor with it using the Lee h.b. 405 boolit. Check IMR's website at www.imrpowder.com for some load data. The downside of Trailboss is it doesn't meter well. Like trying to load chicken feathers it's so light & fluffy. I just use a dipper and weigh it to be sure. If memory serves I stopped at 12gr. but didn't get to run it over the chrony yet. Regards...Audie...the Oldfart..

[fredj338]

I never got the best groups w/ 4198. I have settled on IMR3031 for full power loads driving a 340gr bullet 1600fps in my Marline GG. With the 2x scope, I can get decent 3" groups @ 100yds w/ water dropped range scrap.

[Swamp Fox]

Seems like the consensus is to change powders. I haven't tried 2400 or trailboss, neither of them have a load listed in the lyman manual, but will see what i can get my hands on and try. I haven't been doing this long enough to have a huge powder collection, but looks like as good a time to start as any.

[btroj]

I would listen to Run and go with 22 to 24 gr o 2400 and a bit of Dacron.

Are your bullets the right size for the barrel? That can make a difference too.

My Marlin 45-70 will go under 3 inches for 5 off the bench at 100 all day long with those loads using 2400 and a 420 gr plain base.

[runfiverun]

no 2400?????????
i give it a go in just about everything i shoot.
it might not always be the best.
quite often it's a close enough second, and it's so much easier to meter than many other powders that i'll go with it anyway.

[btroj]

Yep, 2400 is my go to cast bullet powder. It may not be the best in all cases but it sure works pretty darn good. I am yet to find a rifle case that it wont give good results in.

[Wayne Smith]

What rifle, what type of rifling, what dimensions? We can't really answer your questions without that information. A trapdoor Springfield, a a Shiloh Sharps, and a Marlin all have different needs.

[John Guedry]

I use 3031.

[MGySgt]

3031, H 4198 SC, 2400, Unique

I use dacron fillers with them all.

Attachment is with a 350 gr GC.

[44man]

3031 is best. Not good in the revolver, it does not all burn but great in a rifle.

[00buck]

What is the diameter of the boolit?

My marlin like .460

I bought a used Lee 405gr 45-70 mold and it casts nice looking boolits. supposed to be .458 I thought they would drop larger.

With straight wheel weights they drop at.454 to .455 .. Now how am I going to use them? They would just rattle down the barrel and poof out the end. :(

[Jailer]

28gr of 4198 with .7gr of dacron filler, 400gr PB WFN sized to .460 for a hunting load gives me about 1320 FPS consistently with only about 12FPS difference between shots.

30gr of 4198 no filler and same boolit for a plinking load at about the same velocity for practice.

[Bullshop]

00buck
Before you completely give up on that mold that is dropping at .454/.455" I want you to think about a couple things.
#1
I make boolits for folks that shoot the White in line muzzleloaders. These rifles have a groove diameter of .510". So that they will load easily they use boolits of .504" diameter.
That is .006" under groove diameter. These guns will shoot very close to MOA with pure lead boolits at close to 1500 fps.
#2
The pace setters shooting long range 1000 yards + are shooting 45/70 and 45/90 with smooth sided paper patch bullets dropping from the mold at .444" to .446" diameter.
They will then paper patch them up to .450" to .451" diameter with the paper.
These boolits are still even after patched .007" to .008" under nominal groove diameter for standard 45 caliber barrels at .458"
These rifles will also shoot about moa at extreme range.
#3
If you want proof the bullets from your mold will shoot and shoot well from a modern 45 cal barrel do this. Send me the mold for awhile and I will work with it and post my progress as I go. I am quite confident I will be able to make bullets from your mold shoot to your satisfaction and at the same time you will gain load data for your mold.
Please dont take me wrong. I am not out to get your mold but just want to proove a point.
Nothing in this game is set in stone. When someone spouts a rule in this casting/loading/shooting game it is just begging to be broken.
Proove me right or proove me wrong.

[runfiverun]

two wraps of cotton vellum would make that mold into a pretty good smokeless p/p mold quite easily.
might even get away with no case sizing, if the paper is in the .0025 area and the chamber co-operates.
you'd have to play with the alloy a little.

[Swamp Fox]

Wayne Smith - it's a marlin 1895 with micro groove rifling. I haven't slugged the barrel but I'm sure I'll have to eventually. I was hoping to get lucky with it and find a load that shot good without that step.
Mold is dropping at .457-.458. I'm running them through a .458 sizer just to get lubed.

Sounds like I need to find some 2400 or 3031 and try again. Thanks for the advice everybody.