Modern Bond , 30 cal., 190 gr. Plain base

[Ben]

Recently I mentioned that I had purchased from HARRYMPOPE (George ) a Modern Bond, 190 gr. , .30 cal. spire point, plain based mold.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010_zps42b9b38e.jpg

Here is my orig. article :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=165665

I've been " playing " with plain based .30 cal. cast bullets now for about 3 - 4 years and have been really having fun doing it.

Several months ago, I'd " stumbled " on a load of 7.8 grs. of International Clays with a SAECO # 315 plain based bullet that shot real well in several of my 30-06 rifles, so it was only logical to try it with the ( new to me ) Modern Bond bullet.

WOW ! ! - - - - It will shoot !

I've been told by MANY that spire point cast bullets in .30 cal. rifles are NOT ACCURATE. Uuuummm ? ? ? , ----Guess what, they are WRONG !

Shot from my TIKKA, Model 695 , 30-06 Springfield today.
Redfield 6 X 18 X 40 with A/O



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-44.jpg


The load was :

Modern Bond .30 cal. Spire pt., Plain Based bullet
Sized .3115 "
7.8 grs. of International Clays
Neck Sized
Mixed brass
Lubed with Ben's Red and coated with a very thin coat of LLA.
Wolf Large Rifle primers.
OAL 3.318 "

Here is a 20 round group fired at 50 yards, yes.......20 rounds ! !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0687.jpg

Here are the 20 cases that I used to shoot the above group :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0686.jpg

The nose section of the bullet engraves about 1/16 " into the rifling when the bolt is closed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0685.jpg

I'll have some fun with this load.

This would make a great training load for a young person who is graduating from a rim fire to a center fire rifle.

Thanks,
Ben

[I'll Make Mine]

Wow. Just wow.

[Bullshop]

Well yea but most of the target was not used at all. What a waste!
Now see what you have done. I have a similer Saeco mold in 25 caliber but no rifle to try it in. 250 Savage sounds interesting. See now where will this end.

[Ben]

Well yea but most of the target was not used at all. What a waste!
Now see what you have done. I have a similer Saeco mold in 25 caliber but no rifle to try it in. 250 Savage sounds interesting. See now where will this end.


Now see what you have done. I have a similer Saeco mold in 25 caliber but no rifle to try it in.

Now I have you thinking, don't I ? ?

Ben

[UBER7MM]

You found the Holy Grail of 30'06! Don't change anything.

Good shooting,

[bowfin]

That's a pretty boolit and an even prettier target.

I wouldn't go laying that gun down in the leaves and grass too much, lest you lose it. The camouflage matches up pretty dang well in that picture!

[wcp4570]

Ben
That is some group you shot there. I have an old single cavity 311241 that I am playing with and as long as you keep it below 1500fps I get on leading. I shoot 10 shot groups at 50 yards and group size is just over 1 inch, would like to get that 10 shot group as one ragged hold like yours. I have been using Unique and CCI LR primers, rifle is an older Winchester model 70. I will continue the experiment with Unique for now.

wcp

[HARRYMPOPE]

told you it was a good one Ben.I have shot as small as 7/8" for 10 at 100 in a Springfield before.
I shot that bullet using only one case at the 2010 CBA military nationals and at 200 yards shot the small 5 shot aggregate and small group against GC bullets going 1600-1800.It bucks the wind very well at 1100-1200.
I sent a few to Swede for samples 2-3 years back but it never went anywhere.maybe this will get it going.

here are two typical 10 shot groups from a Russian 91-30 and 6x scope at 200 yards i shot about 6 years ago

(click pic to enlarge)



George

[longbow]

What I'll "Make Mine said" and I'll add another WOW!

Nice!

Longbow

[tomme boy]

The coat of alox. Are you just putting it on the nose? Or the whole boolit?

[PAT303]

Pfff,I remember a member on here that used to shoot groups half that size at twice the range and velocity!!!!!.The Europeans know how to build rifles. Pat

[rollmyown]

Why doesn't my Tikka do that? I think it's the trigger man letting the team down :-)

As always Ben, outstanding work!

[Ben]

The coat of alox. Are you just putting it on the nose? Or the whole boolit?

Whole bullet gets a VERY thin coat of LLA.

Ben

[frnkeore]

At those pressures and velocity, you may only need the LLA.

Frank

[EMC45]

Great shooting!

[Ben]

At those pressures and velocity, you may only need the LLA.

Frank

Frank,

Don't take this wrong , ....( and you're most likely correct )....but with a group like I got yesterday, I'm afraid to change ANYTHING.

Ben

[Ben]

Ben
That is some group you shot there. I have an old single cavity 311241 that I am playing with and as long as you keep it below 1500fps I get no leading. I shoot 10 shot groups at 50 yards and group size is just over 1 inch, would like to get that 10 shot group as one ragged hold like yours. I have been using Unique and CCI LR primers, rifle is an older Winchester model 70. I will continue the experiment with Unique for now.

wcp

wcp,

I also have the 241'. A fine bullet for the speed range that you and I are using it in. Some inexpensive and fine shooting can be done with the 241'.

Most people who try it, shoot it at " blistering speeds " and complain that a plain based bullet won't shoot well.

Obviously you know the speed range ( sub 1,500 fps ) in which the bullet has it's best application.

Ben

[Ben]

excess650

Not a thing wrong with efforts in the high vel. arena.

Maybe I'm just getting old and slowing down a bit. But velocities and my age seem to be dictating a slow down on some things.

This is fun ! !

I guess that is what all this is supposed to be about ..................

Ben

[wcp4570]

wcp,

I also have the 241'. A fine bullet for the speed range that you and I are using it in.

Ben

I've been thinking about backing off a bit on the powder charge on the 241 and see if that improves accuracy. If I can get the group tighter then I will back the distance off to 100 yards and give it a try. I like the 241 because it is cheaper to shoot than a gas check boolit. You are correct about this being fun. I've also been playing around with the 311041 and getting decent groups with it as well. Have not tried pushing it past 1600fps yet.

wcp

[Ben]

I've been thinking about backing off a bit on the powder charge on the 241 and see if that improves accuracy. If I can get the group tighter then I will back the distance off to 100 yards and give it a try. I like the 241 because it is cheaper to shoot than a gas check boolit. You are correct about this being fun. I've also been playing around with the 311041 and getting decent groups with it as well. Have not tried pushing it past 1600fps yet.

wcp

Yes, if you can keep the 241' in the proper speed zone, you can save on those pesky $27.00 + shipping , Hornady .30 cal. gas checks and still shoot some fine groups.


________

I've been thinking about backing off a bit on the powder charge on the 241 and see if that improves accuracy.

Might I ask what powder charges you've tried so far ?

Ben

[rollmyown]

Ben, I can see you being the poster boy for a group buy on this!

Seriously though, Any one interested in a brass mold? :bigsmyl2:

[HARRYMPOPE]

They key to this one is the nose gently tapers/radius's and keeps it bore diameter longer and helps it align and it supported.The 311365 i gave the sample for NOE also are of this general pattern.I have a GC 180g modern Bond .30 that has a nose that is the same shape but tapers too fast and it hasn't shot very well for me as of yet.
It would be fine in aluminum.But if just shooting up to about 100 yards the 308241 or 3118 are good enough.I find this one to be a superior a 100-200 yard bullet to other PB designs i have shot.Though the 308403 has given me small groups at 200 at times.

[wcp4570]

[/QUOTE]
I've been thinking about backing off a bit on the powder charge on the 241 and see if that improves accuracy.

Might I ask what powder charges you've tried so far ?

Ben[/QUOTE]

I started at 10.0 graings of Unique, accuracy was in the 1 1/2" area. Worked up to 14. 0 grains and started leading, group size started increasing at 12.0 grains. Next I will start at 10 and go the other way and try varying seating depth. The experiment continues.

wcp

[Ben]

Yes, less just might be better...........
( Ooopps, looks like I pulled a round in the group below )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/SAECO%20%20315%20Plain%20Base/021.jpg

[wcp4570]

Ben
That is very impressive even with your mistake. Ha. Looking at your boolit size I may need to try a larger size also, mine is .309. You have given me some good things to try.

wcp

[tomme boy]

Ben, do you use the Alox because of the bore rider section? Do you think it helps to stop leading because of the bore ride?

[madsenshooter]

Makes me want to remove the GC shank from my B&M 311169. Not much sense in it being there, it as it doesn't work too good above the speeds you're getting with PBs. But since it has some collector value, best leave it as is.

[Maven]

I have a 3-cavity Saeco #315 + an old Ideal #311466 that I'm seriously thinking of sending to Buckshot for GC shank alteration (only 1 cavity on the 315, but both on -466) after seeing Ben's results.

[Ben]

Ben, do you use the Alox because of the bore rider section? Do you think it helps to stop leading because of the bore ride?

Yes, I think the nose needs a bit of lubrication also.
Easier to simply coat the entire bullet for me than to attempt to
lube the nose only.

My bores are mirror bright after shooting these loads.
It certainly isn't harming anything, so.....I'll continue giving
them a VERY thin coat of LLA.

Ben

[HARRYMPOPE]

the 311466 and 315 shoot good as a PB(at appropriate velocity) even with the GC shank filled with lube.

George

[HARRYMPOPE]

Makes me want to remove the GC shank from my B&M 311169. Not much sense in it being there, it as it doesn't work too good above the speeds you're getting with PBs. But since it has some collector value, best leave it as is.

I plain based the 311413 about 15 years back and shot it in a 308 Ruger 77 and it did very well.(about 1.5" at 100 yards)I too never got that design to shot well much above 1400 so why waste a GC on it.

George

[Doc Highwall]

Ben, what alloy are you using with the SAECO#315PB?

[HARRYMPOPE]

I've been thinking about backing off a bit on the powder charge on the 241 and see if that improves accuracy.

Might I ask what powder charges you've tried so far ?

Ben[/QUOTE]

I started at 10.0 graings of Unique, accuracy was in the 1 1/2" area. Worked up to 14. 0 grains and started leading, group size started increasing at 12.0 grains. Next I will start at 10 and go the other way and try varying seating depth. The experiment continues.

wcp[/QUOTE]

In the 30-06 I shoot 8.0-9.5g of Unique with PB.Much more powder and groups really open up.Sometimes it will shoot one or two good groups over 10g but then it gets haywire.

George

[Ben]

Ben, what alloy are you using with the SAECO#315PB?

Doc :

Air cooled WW's.

Ben

[wcp4570]

Harry
What velocity are you getting from the 8.0 to 9.5 grain Unique loads. My guess is in the neighborhood of 1100 to 1300fps. My 241 cast from clip-on ww come out at 159grains and oddly the best group I fired so far was the 11.5 grain load that was 1.25" for 10 shots and average vel was 1460fps (my first post pic). All other loads grouped larger. I will be trying your load recommendation and going backwards from 10 grains to see what that produces. I would like to find that magic combination to produce the ragged hole fired with 10 or more shots like Ben has posted. I may also need to find a heavier PB boolit to try, I like the looks of the boolit that you sold Ben and what started this post. I have not had time to experiment lately, honey-do list is too long. I thought retirement would give me more time to do as I pleased. O-well! Thanks for your input.

wcp

[HARRYMPOPE]

I get 1100-1200 with 8-9g of Unique in a 24" barrel with 160-190g plainbase bullets.When shooting at 100 and 200 at those velocities its hard to get 10 shots consistently under 1.75 MOA for me.Often its a point of impact change as well that keeps me chasing the 10 ring.I have shot many smaller but probably many more larger.

George

[Maven]

Yes, 8 - 9 grs. Unique IS a good load for PB bullets in the .06. (I use 8.7grs.) You may also want to try 7.5grs. Clays (original formulation) and/or 9.5grs. Blue Dot.

[Greg]

I would like to second the call for a group buy on this plain base boolit

[HARRYMPOPE]

Swede may still have the drawing from my sample i sent him two years ago.

[Hamish]

I would like to second the call for a group buy on this plain base boolit

Yup. Pretty sure this would go big.

[HARRYMPOPE]

With the NOE and Mihek lead times towards a year maybe Tom at Accurate wold be an option.The molds i have of his are tops.

George