Lead Keel

[traderpats]

So just getting into casting again. Had an offer for some lead from a sailboat keel. Anyone familiar with this material by chance? I'll be using it to cast .45 acp and 9mm. I'm not sure if the lead can be used as is or if adjusting will be needed to the hardness outside of say water dropping. If it's too hard or soft how hard is it to adjust to be suitable? Thanks

[clodhopper]

A lead keel is composed of what ever lead was avalible, Might be hard, might be soft, might be linotype.
45acps are not very paticular, 9mm might be.

[traderpats]

Thanks clodhopper, that is useful info. So guess I'll have to just play it by ear and hopefully pick it up at spot price. Worse case scenario is I'll end up taking it to the scrap yard at a wash then.

[D Crockett]

like Clodhopper said it can be anything at best you can get some good casting lead at worst you will have a big papper weight but there is a good side to it you can take the keel to the scrap yard and trade it for ww to get good lead to cast with I thought I had one a few months ago but it did not work out I did check with a scrap yard I deal with and they were willing to trade 3/4 to 1 in other words if the keel weighed 4000 lbs they would give me 3000 lbs of ww so you might think it those terms D Crockett

[traderpats]

Got it and that's good to know, didn't think of that. I just got off the phone with the seller and the scrapyard told him to bring a sample down to test it so they can give him an accurate price. He's going to pass the results on to me and I imagine I'll be back on here asking for some more advice until a better handle on what to look for as far as composition.

[runfiverun]

some more advice.
you need to realize that a keel weighs a ton or two and is pretty decent in size.
you have to move the thing.
you have to figure out how to make it fit in your pot.

the thing is, it's all one alloy usually or not.
to deal with it, would involve a couple of different re-melts to insure it was all the same.
then test it,then adjust.
him taking a sample of it to the scrap yard could yield the results of that end only, the next 3 inches could be different and the next 3 and the next 2.
it's a lot of lead.... good and bad at the same time.

[lead chucker]

I scored some lead out of a boat keel a while back. It is real soft so I figure it's strait lead. I haven't melted it down into ingest yet but I can cut it with my finger nail.

[Oreo]

I scored some lead out of a boat keel a while back. It is real soft so I figure it's strait lead. I haven't melted it down into ingest yet but I can cut it with my finger nail.
When you finally do get around to melting and ingesting it you should go have your blood-lead level checked. I'd pay good money to hear your doctor's reaction to the test results.

;)

[Lizard333]

I know you can contact the maker of the boat and ask them what they used. If they are still in business......

[traderpats]

some more advice.
you need to realize that a keel weighs a ton or two and is pretty decent in size.
you have to move the thing.
you have to figure out how to make it fit in your pot.

the thing is, it's all one alloy usually or not.
to deal with it, would involve a couple of different re-melts to insure it was all the same.
then test it,then adjust.
him taking a sample of it to the scrap yard could yield the results of that end only, the next 3 inches could be different and the next 3 and the next 2.
it's a lot of lead.... good and bad at the same time.


I'll have to take that into consideration I guess. I'm only in for a smaller chunk of the keel though. Guy states it come off of a 50 footer and the whole piece is in the 9K lb range.

Anyways we come to an agreement I'll go over and we'll hack a section off. He seems to think his sawsall should do it. Should be interesting...

[David2011]

Just be sure it's lead. Of course, if you're looking at just a piece of it that would be obvious but if it's still covered in bottom paint try a magnet on it. Some keels are cast iron. Bottom paint is much more toxic and much easier to ingest than lead. The dust can make you feel ill almost as soon as it's inhaled. I had a respirator failure once when sanding my boat's bottom. Among other things, it felt like I had an ice pick driven into my sinus cavity.

Some builders use antimony in the keel, especially for high performance boats. It allows the keel to be thinner and deeper than a dead soft keel. Compare the softness of the keel to a clip on wheelweight and a stick on wheelweight when you gouge it with an ice pick or screwdriver to get an idea of its hardness. Stick on WW is essentially pure lead. Clip on WW has antimony in the mix.

David

[runfiverun]

iitt will cut off the thin sections.
i hope he has a chainsaw.....or a lot of acetylene.

[Plate plinker]

Wish somebody would give me 9000 pounds of lead. :rolleyes:

That just might be a lifetime supply.

[traderpats]

Just be sure it's lead. Of course, if you're looking at just a piece of it that would be obvious but if it's still covered in bottom paint try a magnet on it. Some keels are cast iron. Bottom paint is much more toxic and much easier to ingest than lead. The dust can make you feel ill almost as soon as it's inhaled. I had a respirator failure once when sanding my boat's bottom. Among other things, it felt like I had an ice pick driven into my sinus cavity.

Some builders use antimony in the keel, especially for high performance boats. It allows the keel to be thinner and deeper than a dead soft keel. Compare the softness of the keel to a clip on wheelweight and a stick on wheelweight when you gouge it with an ice pick or screwdriver to get an idea of its hardness. Stick on WW is essentially pure lead. Clip on WW has antimony in the mix.

David

Great info. Thanks everyone for all the replies, much appreciated.

[Revolver]

As someone who dealt with a keel this summer I would like to chime in. IT WAS A LOT OF WORK.

1. Not all keels are made of 'what ever lead was available.' Yes, perhaps a homemade keel or one made by a small shop but a large manufacturer isn't going to waste time scrounging scrap lead, they are going to purchase an alloy for manufacturing. In my situation the boat was a Hunter sailboat. I googled it and their website said the keels are 97% lead and 3% antimony. Hot dog!

2. Cutting with heat is no good. We tried that with cutting torches, didn't get too far. The giant mass sucks up the heat. The chainsaw ended up being the only viable tool. In the end the torches worked to melt a hole to determine the length and shape of the keel bolts so we could avoid them with the saw.

3. It took a lot of work to cut it up, luckily it was at a friends house where we could whittle away at it. Over the course of the summer we chunked it up and I hauled it in 5 trips. with my truck.

4. The sawdust adds up, I've been casting all summer from the shavings alone.

Relevant videos:

Me cutting keel with a chainsaw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5oz9IJ_5O0

Me moving & Loading keel chunks (600-800 lbs each)
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF2zE6uLgCk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF2zE6uLgCk)

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j407/mainejunker/a5b9044b.jpg

[John in WI]

I remember when you posted that you chunked it up with a chainsaw. My first thought was "bs--that's impossible!"

then I checked out the Youtube. I have to say, you're nothing if not persistant! That is a monsterous amount of lead to have in one big chunk.

[Revolver]

To be perfectly honest I did do some of the cutting but finally gave up, it was very frustrating. My buddy stepped in and had the stamina to see it to the end. Good to have friends.


I remember when you posted that you chunked it up with a chainsaw. My first thought was "bs--that's impossible!"

then I checked out the Youtube. I have to say, you're nothing if not persistant! That is a monsterous amount of lead to have in one big chunk.

[John in WI]

I actually turned down an outdoor fork lift ballast for that exact reason--how in the heck was I going to manuver this thing? I don't own a tractor, and don't own a saw that can come close to cutting 1' thick lead. I poked at it with some pry bars but quickly decided "this is nuts". I'm just not equiped and it was going to end either in failure, or injury.

[Striker40]

I just got 100 40-50 pound ingots out of a old steel sailboat we scrapped.I am in lake mary florida if anyone is looking to buy a few or all of them.

[Revolver]

So traderpats, did you get some keel lead?

[Rooster]

Check your PM Striker

[traderpats]

So traderpats, did you get some keel lead?

Nope. Guy hasn't gotten back to me. Maybe he saw the light when he tried to cut off a sample for the scrap yard? Oh well, even if it doesn't pan out I learned a lot on here....

[rintinglen]

One of my most sorrowful moments as a lead scrounger came when I had to pass on a 753 pound keel. I simply had no way to remove it in the time available.