Free chex vs Pat Marlins check maker

[wlc]

Has anyone used both? Which worked best for you? I'm just getting into loading cast with GC and was thinking about getting a checkmaker of some sort and don't really know which way to go. Thanks for any help.

[tjones]

A quick Google search will help you.
Here's just one result
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrZ1paz8UE
tj

[Dan Cash]

Free Chex is readily available, cost less and produces a finished gas check with each stroke and cuts from the edge of a sheet of metal. Pat Marlin's device may take 11 or more months to get, costs more than Free Chex, requires precision width strip, requires cutting disks then individually placing said disk centered in a forming die; a tedious operation which often produces an out of round check.

I use my Free Chex in conjunction with an arbor press but understand they can be used by tapping with a hammer. I had one PM device but sold it. Have 2 Free Chex and can make a seasons worth of gas checks in an hour per caliber.

[Mike Hughes]

I own 2 of each and have to say they are both really nice. Pat (checkmaker) and Charlie (freechex) invented these tools and they must be very skilled machinist and also very smart. They both work great and do as advertised. From what I have seen, both of these guys stand behind their products and go above and beyond to insure customer satisfaction. Pats checkmaker tool is the only one that will make checks for plain based boolits. You can use aluminum cans or similar material and the check swages onto the boolit really well. These pb checks really did improve accuracy and reduce leading.
Charlie's freechex 3 is also a awesome tool, but only makes checks for boolits that are shanked for gc. The main difference between the two is the freechex 3 makes the check in one pull of the handle (cuts the disc and forms the check) You could probable make 1000 checks in a hour while Pats checkmaker is a two step process ( cut disc, then form check).
Another thing to consider is, the checkmaker will mount in any standard press and the freechex 3 needs a arbor press or drill press. I have to say I am very happy with both products and use them often.

[Mike Hughes]

I think Pat has cleared a lot of his backorders, I received my tools in about 6 weeks. He recently went through a divorce and had to move his shop from the backwoods into town. I think he is now setup and running full speed. The freechex 3 is readily available (order one and it might be in yor hands in less than 1 week). If you have the need, I would say order both

[Wally]

Have 6 Freechex tools..all work extremely well. Charlie is very responsive and helpful...I cannot say enough good things about him.....and I set the bar pretty high, if you know what I mean. You send him an e-mail and he responds He has convinced me that he wants you to be a happy with his products. I like that...

Using a board, the Freeechex tool, and a plastic mallet, one can sit and watch TV and punch out the Gas Checks. I have tested them against factory made and found no accuracy differences.

As I choose to use aluminum, not copper, they will sometimes pull off when being sized/lubed. This is not due to a faulty of the tool--- it is the price you pay (or you coudl say don't pay) for using aluminum versus copper.

[TCFAN]

I have 3 of the feechexIII tools.30 357 and 44 cal.They make gas checks so fast that I can't see why any one would want any other kind.And like has been said Charlie is very fast to get what you want in your hands.......Terry

[yonky]

I can only speak about Charlie's tools, I have three,they work flawlessly ,one punch one check as fast as you like.charlie is a top guy,replies to all emails ( no matter how trivial) quickly.
I have sent many samples of aluminium coils for Charlie for testing his tools, and he as always insisted on paying me. Top man. Enough said.

[Love Life]

I have owned/used both tools.

FreechexII- Performed very well and made checks like it was supposed to. It is the kind you wack with a hammer. I made a board/box setup so my formed gas checks fell into the box. I could really crank them out.

Checkmaker 35PB- Performed very well. Required two steps to create checks. Before yonky came along you had to use aluminum beverage can material. A pain, but necessary. Now with Yonky's material on the market I see the PB tool being another option for me. The only thing I did not like about the Checkmaker was the shock of punching the disks. It made the reloading bench rattle.

With that being said I no longer own either tool. I had a check making tool made by one of the members on this forum and it suits my needs better.

[keebo52]

I have 2 FreechexII tools, a .30 cal. and .22 cal. Love them both and they're adequate for my needs. I've heard great things about Pat Marlin's Checkmakers but I haven't used one. I got some 35PB checks in a trade and have had great results with them. Especially with 9 mm. They completely eliminate leading from the equation.

I wish Charlie would offer a .35PB FreechexII or III tool. I could order from Pat but I'm just not willing to pay for something and wait 6 months or more for delivery. Heck, I'm getting older and I may not be here in 6 months. I'm not the type to wait in line at a restaurant either. I don't care how good the food is.

[JeffinNZ]

Very much horses for courses. If you would prefer to use a loading press then Pat's tool. If you are happy to have an arbor press or use a mallet then Freechex.

Suffice to say that in either case both gentlemen have done us shooters a HUGE favour by making their respective products available.

[Wal']

I just ordered a .35PB off Pat & he said it would be in the mail within the week, sounds like he's back up to speed, will let you know when it arrives here in Oz.

[HARRYMPOPE]

The freecheck tool was made in the 1980's by paco Kelly and ed wosika.did Charlie buy the patent?

[waksupi]

If you aren't wiling to stand in line for cast boolit stuff, you may as well go back to jacketed bullets. This stuff isn't sitting on a shelf at Cabela's to be shipped to you. It has to be made by craftsmen, in what is usually one man shops.

PS
Don't bother ever ordering a rifle from me, you would probably have to wait.

[JeffinNZ]

The freecheck tool was made in the 1980's by paco Kelly and ed wosika.did Charlie buy the patent?

Freecheck system was/is like Pat's plain base system. Sizing a thin walled check onto a PB. That's my understanding. Freechex is a proper check on a shank.

[M4bushy]

Hands down, free chex III one complete check per cycle of the tool.

[Love Life]

I just wanted to clarify my post.

Both the FreeChexII and the PB Checkmaker were outstanding tools. Were I in the market I would give both a serious look. The nod would probably go to Pat Marlins CheckMaker since I squished my thumb with a deadblow hammer using the FreeChexII.

[keebo52]

Been casting for 40 years and never had to prepay and wait several months for hardly anything. If I need something thats not availble I wait until its in stock and buy it. The only thing I can recall waiting for was a Lee .221 sizer for 5.45 x39 and I knew before I ordered that it was a custom item.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[Love Life]

Delivery time was not part of the question asked by the OP. OP asked who has used both tools and which one worked best for you. Lets keep it going that direction, and not turn it into a "I had to wait!!! Boohoohoo!!" thread.

[yonky]

I just wanted to clarify my post.

Both the FreeChexII and the PB Checkmaker were outstanding tools. Were I in the market I would give both a serious look. The nod would probably go to Pat Marlins CheckMaker since I squished my thumb with a deadblow hammer using the FreeChexII.

Lol Richard, have you got a thumb like a blind cobbler now?

[Love Life]

Lol Richard, have you got a thumb like a blind cobbler now?

Not yet but the left side of the thumbnail is finally starting to come off after a month or two of growing out from where I smashed it. That really hurt!!

[yonky]

Not yet but the left side of the thumbnail is finally starting to come off after a month or two of growing out from where I smashed it. That really hurt!!

Let that be a lesson to all, don't make gas checks while under the influence of alcohol! Lol

[Love Life]

No booze involved on this one, just running my mouth and not paying attention. I said some very colorful words and launched the hammer across the room.

[JeffinNZ]

Lol Richard, have you got a thumb like a blind cobbler now?

Yeah, but he's one great hitchhiker.

Good clarification and thanks.

[fcvan]

I considered checking out the Freechex too but decided on the checkmaker. I have 35pb and 45pb and love them. I've ordered the .22 and .30 and am waiting on those. Since the move Pat has been cranking them out to catch up and adding new calibers to boot. I'm really looking forward to getting the .22 so I can start stockpiling lubed and sized boolits for my Mini 14 and AR. Frank

[tchepone]

Has anyone used both? Which worked best for you? I'm just getting into loading cast with GC and was thinking about getting a checkmaker of some sort and don't really know which way to go. Thanks for any help.
I own and use both. I have 2)Checkmakers™, a regular model, for use with bullets having a gas check shank and a "plain base" type. The regular works fine. The plain base unit is problematic with many types and thickness of material.
I also have 3)FreeChex tools. Two are FreeChex III's, one is a Freechex II. I have not encountered problems with any of them.
For speed and quantity of checks produced, in my opinion, the FreeChex tools win hands down. When I am in the market for additional tools, they will be the FreeChex variety.
Both vendors have good warranties and are responsive to problems. I have owned the tools for a short time, varying from 1½ years to 2 months, so I can't attest to longevity. The FreeChex units are heat treated, the Checkmaker™ units do not appear to be.
I won't get into delivery issues because that can be a changing thing with many dependencies.

If I were starting out today, without any knowledge or experience, I would choose Charlie's FreeChex tools. I base this on things I have read on various forums. If you think you will be making a lot of gas checks, I recommend the FreeChex III model. If you will be making only a few for testing purposes, any of the tools will work. I use a FreeChex II for just that purpose. It is economical and plenty quick.
Good luck and happy check making....G

[HARRYMPOPE]

Freecheck system was/is like Pat's plain base system. Sizing a thin walled check onto a PB. That's my understanding. Freechex is a proper check on a shank.


I had an early one that fit .44 GC shanks.You used double Pop cans to get them to fit better.I have an article from the 1980's on them I'll find if i can.A fellow in the 1980's did the aluminum plain base check thing and had an article in Handloader or American Rifleman I believe.

George

[HARRYMPOPE]

here it is.used on GC shanks.

sorry about the sideways pic's

[tjones]

Gee HARRYMPOPE freechek and freechex look about as similar as the Ford and the Cheverolet. tj

[garym1a2]

For what its worth a patent is only good for a max of 20 years from date of filing and you cannot file for a patent more than one year after you offer it for sale,


The freecheck tool was made in the 1980's by paco Kelly and ed wosika.did Charlie buy the patent?

[HARRYMPOPE]

the idea of a GC tool for aluminum checks in a punch manner is nothing new.The similar name of the "freechex"-"freecheck" tool is odd.

23 years later----

"In 2006, +++++++++++++++++++++++++ wondered if discarded beverage cans could be a source of metal for home made (free) gas checks. "

The new tools are much better thankfully.



George

[HARRYMPOPE]

Gee HARRYMPOPE freechek and freechex look about as similar as the Ford and the Cheverolet. tj

there in nothing new under the sun.

George

[JeffinNZ]

I'm just grateful these clever folk share their ideas with us.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I'm just grateful these clever folk share their ideas with us.

Me too.I'd hate to have to buy GC's at current pricing.I wonder if Hornady will offer an aluminum GC at a bargain price?

George

[PatMarlin]

Free Chex is readily available, cost less and produces a finished gas check with each stroke and cuts from the edge of a sheet of metal. Pat Marlin's device may take 11 or more months to get, costs more than Free Chex, requires precision width strip, requires cutting disks then individually placing said disk centered in a forming die; a tedious operation which often produces an out of round check.

I use my Free Chex in conjunction with an arbor press but understand they can be used by tapping with a hammer. I had one PM device but sold it. Have 2 Free Chex and can make a seasons worth of gas checks in an hour per caliber.


The 11 months or more to get dies were for new calibers I had not yet developed that are now in production. That is old out dated news. Those old perorders are being filled here daily.

I'm rapidly getting close to dies shipping within a few days at my new shop, and all old orders- (new) calibers that had not been perviously available are running.

Things are changing.

By the way- don't forget accuracy. Making checks in record time is great. I'd rather have gas checks put my holes in the ten ring.

Also out of round? Hardly.

Go here and find out what kind of accuracy my customers who are shooters are getting with Checkmaker™ dies:

Mother of all Checkmaker™ Dies Links
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104930


...:drinks:

[PatMarlin]

I'm proceeding with a complete line of dies perfected and supported for all calibers, including PB versions. If there is a mold made, or a plain base mold made, there will be a set of Checkmaker™ dies for it.

Calibers Now in production-

7mm cal, 270 cal, 30 cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 30PB cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 338 cal, 32/8mm cal, 32PB cal (includes 8mm), 32-20PB Winchester (includes 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police) 35 cal (includes 9mm), 35PB cal (Plain Base, includes 9mm), 40/10mm cal, 40/10mmPB cal, 41 cal, 41PB cal,44PB cal, 44 cal, 44PB cal, 45 cal (fits both pistol and rifle), 9.3 cal, 45PB Pistol cal, 45PB Rifle cal, 45PBAR cal (tall check for the AR platform), 50 Cal Pistol (.501), 50 Cal Rifle (.512), 50PB Pistol, 50PB Rifle.

Updated- The list keeps growing... :drinks:



...:Fire:

[Love Life]

I will say that when I had my PB dies they left me with a nice shiny bore in my Glock 9mm factory barrel. I had no leading without the OB gas checks, but the PB gas checks left me with great peace of mind.

Now where the PB gas checks really shone were when I was attaching them to a NOE 358-95-SP bullet. A 95 grain pointy bullet that I loaded over 10.5 gr of W231 in 357 mag cases and shot out of a Ruger 357 mag bolt action rifle. No leading at very impressive velocities.

[tjones]

Amazon and to a greater extent EBAY hold sellers feet to the fire and buyers can purchase with confidence via the internet. Amazon is hardly book and media anymore. I inject this because this thread has varied a long ways from the OP's question of A verses B. -tj

[Bad Water Bill]

Amazon and to a greater extent EBAY hold sellers feet to the fire and buyers can purchase with confidence via the internet. Amazon is hardly book and media anymore. I inject this because this thread has varied a long ways from the OP's question of A verses B. -tj

I do not know what you are talking about unless you are a troll.

The O P asked about 2 products . There have been many replies as to the pros and cons of both products and some educational background on both .

Amazon and EVIL BAY have not had their names mentioned here and they have 0 bearing on this page.

[Love Life]

One last thing on the PB checks. They did not work well on my Star sizer unless I sized them base first. On my lee push through sizers I had to bevel the entrance to the die. On the standard base first sizers there were no issues and the gas checks went on more square (or round).

However; the star was finicky with standard gas checks as well.

[tjones]

Good info too referring to HARRYMPOPE'S post that the "Mother of all Checkmakers" is a best an orphaned child. -tj

[Bad Water Bill]

I do not know why you are on a soap box about gas checks and putting a knife in Pats back nor do I care. Someone with 76 posts and over 70 of them are on one subject and harassing a member at every chance sounds like someone with a MAJOR problem themselves.

[tjones]

I am sorry the but OP question was "used both" or owned. I have , really commented only on the history, or is that a twist of a vs. b. I have neither now, as I have a life time supply. -tj

[wlc]

Sorry to have stirred up a hornets nest. I personally found the history lesson helpful even though it was somewhat off topic from the specific question asked by the OP (ME). I didn't ask my question in order to start some type of argument etc. I honestly wanted to know of folks experience with each or both types of check maker. The history was added benefit.

I especially didn't want anyone to badmouth any particular individual or company, especially a member and vendor here. I asked my question simply because I am fairly new to boolit casting and have never used a gascheck let alone made one. I see the benefit of rolling your own whether its boolits or gaschecks. I've read much but didn't find what I was looking for and I do certainly appreciate all the good info I've recieved on this question. My apologies to any one that may have been offended by the results of my question.

[Bad Water Bill]

I found some of his remarks in poor taste SO looked at ALL of his posts and all but 2 were in the GC pages mostly bashing Pat.

Those of us who have been here for a while have watched Pat start up his business and have some MAJOR setbacks. If Pat was able he tried to keep all of us informed of how the business was running.

I personally would not hesitate to do business with Pat as he has some excellent products. Being a 1 man store is hard but I think Pat is on the right track now and wish him the very best.

Never stop asking questions here as that is why most folks are here. Obviously there are a few that come here to cause trouble. With over 25,000 members a few will be like this problem CHILD.

Just sit back keep your coffee mug full relax and ask questions and learn some more.

Thank you for helping some other members learn more about gas checks and their history.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Pats tool are the only ones i own now and are fast enough for me.i shoot mainly bolt guns and single shots so 500-1000 month is all i need.I make them as i wait for the pot to heat up rather than sit down and make 1000's at a time.I would like a Freechex III in 22 caliber someday.But as of now i am sitting on 8000 Honady .22 checks and am in no rush.

George

[Sonnypie]

I have both, used both.
If you have both try this test: Try laying a file on either and see which is made of tool steel and hardened.
The file will bite into the steel in a PM die, it will not in a Freechex.
Based on experience with both, Freechex is the best choice.
YMMV (And Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care.) ;)

[MUSTANG]

I have (4) Freechex I's (Hammer and punch); (3) FreeChex III's (Arbor Press), and (3) Pat Marlin Gas Check Makers. I like them all, and live with the quirks each has. I rarely use the FreeChex I's now, the FreeChex III's are much easier and faster.

With the Pat Marlin Check Makers, I discovered that it is much easier to punch the disks out using the dies in my Corbin Press with it's much greater leverage, and then move the dies over to my RCBS press for the 2nd step in forming the Gas Check cup.


Mustang

[HARRYMPOPE]

try slightly tapering the ram cutter on pats tool with a file and the effort is 1/3.No more stuff rattling off the bench.

George

[PatMarlin]

I have to set the facts straight here at CB from comments from the same couple of guys, over and over and over- but that's OK... :roll:

I have customers that continually make thousands of accurate fitting and accurate shooting gas checks with their Checkmaker™ dies.


Checkmaker™ Gas Check Forming Die Sets:

-Meet or exceed accuracy shooting results of factory gas checks.

-Very user friendly- fast and easy to use, and to set up.

-Produce a bare minimum of material waste.

-Produce concentric gas checks that fit and STAY on, using the accuracy of your reloading press.

-Heavy duty machined quality with no moving parts to break or gum up.

-Flexible- accommodate a wide range of material thickness- and work with a wide range of Boolit diameters all within one caliber set.

-Lifetime purchase and user re-sharpen able

I fully guarantee EVERY die set to be spot on and work flawlessly to your satisfaction, with a "No BS" warranty.

Take a file all you want, but It's really pointless.

...:drinks:

[Sonnypie]

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270235.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270235.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270236.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270236.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270237.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270237.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Wow SonnyPie,

I'm impressed not only with your knowledge, and that you are not only an expert on metallurgy but clairvoyant as well, so far as to even know the engineering and materials of my design.

And wasn't like a few short months ago, you didn't even know what a gas check was- but now you're the expert.. lol. ...:mrgreen:

Not sure I understand the root cause- the continuing obsession and overall goal here though? Maybe one of our resident shrinks here at CB will chime in... :mrgreen:

I don't think your pics will change the minds of the hundreds and hundreds of happy Patmarlin Checkmaker™ die users out there, that have been making gas checks for the past 4 years with their dies. The same customers who have kept me hopping, day in and day out to meet the demand.

And I don't think it will change the minds of those same shooters who continually re-order from me, so much so as I've made this my life career and invested in a new home and shop.

Will be continuing to build Patmarlins well into the future, to serve the Cast Boolit shooting community- one I'm very proud to be a member of.

Thank you for your kindness and support.

Pat ...:drinks:

[Sonnypie]

You're Welcome Pat.
America! Land of the Free, because of the Brave.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
And experience is worth even more.
I'm sure your loyal followers will be glad to hear they bought you a new home and shop on the grid.
How is Sacramento these days?
Oh never mind, we have Family there, we already know.
Good luck to you.

[PatMarlin]

LOL-

OK SonnyPie. Thanks for the well wishes.

If anyone is bothered by any scratches on the body of their male die, please feel free to request a new polished one.... :mrgreen:

If anyone manages to break or wear out their Checkmaker™ dies, please do the same.

...:Fire:

[fcvan]

Pat, although I'm not a Psychologist, but I did stay at a Holiday In Express, several times. My RX for you is breathing exercises.

Breath in
Relax, exhale half breath
Aim
Sight Picture
Squeeze

Take five shots, call me in the morning. Oh, and post pictures. Frank

[Swede44mag]

Pat, although I'm not a Psychologist, but I did stay at a Holiday In Express, several times. My RX for you is breathing exercises.

Breath in
Relax, exhale half breath
Aim
Sight Picture
Squeeze

Take five shots, call me in the morning. Oh, and post pictures. Frank

Five shots of what Bourbon or Tequila? [smilie=w:

[PatMarlin]

A final word here-

It is bothersome, the mindset of some individuals who are very quick to judge and criticize.

The thought that somehow small cottage manufacturers (such as myself) are cutting the fat calf, taking advantage and reaping the benefits of others is a strange notion to myself.

I have never once- take for granted my customers or my business. I thank God daily for the opportunity to earn a living, and earn my customers trust.

What has enabled me to acquire a new-to-me shop, and home is not the proceeds from the kind shooters who have chosen to spend their hard earned dollars with me at Patmarlins, it's a result of my hard work and determination not to give up, over the past 35 years in my life as a self employed individual- working yes in the greatest country on earth the United States of America.

I find myself yet again, taking a huge gamble with no guarantees of success here. But those who know me, know I don't give up. It has served me well over the years. I don't know any other way.

[ReloaderFred]

I just finished making 2,000 Plain Base .35 caliber gas checks with one of Pat's CheckMaker dies for a special project. I couldn't ask for a tool to do a better job, especially when NOBODY ELSE offers this product. There are other gas check making tools, and they work, but Pat is the only one offering Plain Base check making tools.

I have three of his CheckMakers, and I'm very, very happy with all three of them, two of which are for making plain base checks.

Thank you, Pat!!

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Teutonius]

Hello boys,

I read here a few times. I apologize for my incorrect English. It is sad that this forum is partly used to attack other people and bad things about them. The forum is still there to share experiences, learn from each other. There is al ot of information that can be exploited each. Furthermore, everyone should be grateful.
The purpose is yet to report on experience with the various "Checkmakers", purely objectively, without offending someone.
I own one tool Freechex II, two tools Freechex III, and two tools Patmarlins.
I am very pleased with these tools. All provide very good quality. The tools are made for different presses (Reloader-Press or Arbor-Press), so as you like it. Patmarlins and Freechex are quality tools. What more could you want? I am glad that there are such men as Pat and Charles. They give us the tools to produce their own gas checks. For this we should be grateful. In conjunction with the right aluminum-coils from Yonky it is a snap.

In this sense, good shot

Teutonius

[No_1]

Well put Teutonius. Everyone needs to take a step back to realize why this forum exist.

[Bad Water Bill]

I think this discussion of the 2 check makers is very beneficial to the 2 businesses. It gives both Pat and Charles a chance to see what has bothered some of their customers so they can improve their products if need be.

I know that if you sell enough of your product you will sooner or later get someone mad at you.

Pat has been here for many years and has been very open about things that slowed delivery, caused changes etc.

I have also used the tool from Charles. I believe Charles has been here a time or two but is not a regular here. Not faulting him either just a statement.

Constructive criticism helps everyone but grinding an axe benefits no one and most here are smart enough to pick up on those folks.

[JeffinNZ]

So the final word then is everyone is happy with the maker they have settled on? Let's move on.

[Pooch]

Hello boys,

I read here a few times. I apologize for my incorrect English. It is sad that this forum is partly used to attack other people and bad things about them. The forum is still there to share experiences, learn from each other. There is al ot of information that can be exploited each. Furthermore, everyone should be grateful.
The purpose is yet to report on experience with the various "Checkmakers", purely objectively, without offending someone.
I own one tool Freechex II, two tools Freechex III, and two tools Patmarlins.
I am very pleased with these tools. All provide very good quality. The tools are made for different presses (Reloader-Press or Arbor-Press), so as you like it. Patmarlins and Freechex are quality tools. What more could you want? I am glad that there are such men as Pat and Charles. They give us the tools to produce their own gas checks. For this we should be grateful. In conjunction with the right aluminum-coils from Yonky it is a snap.

In this sense, good shot

Teutonius


Well said. Let's move forward.

[melter68]

Each to there own and thanks to Yonky in good old england

[Wal']

I just ordered a .35PB off Pat & he said it would be in the mail within the week, sounds like he's back up to speed, will let you know when it arrives here in Oz.


It seems to me that Pat is well & truly up to speed with his service, can't fault my own experience with him.

I ordered my 35PB checkmaker on Sept 19.....he shipped it out Oct 10 & arrived down here in Australia Oct 22.

Have an endless supply of gas checks now, just need to either find some aluminum coils locally or get onto Yonky for the good stuff. :D

:cbpour:

[Norbrat]

Have an endless supply of gas checks now, just need to either find some aluminum coils locally or get onto Yonky for the good stuff. :D

:cbpour:

Try the local hardware shop for some aluminium flashing.

I got a piece cut about a metre long to try and it works well in my Freechex II 30 cal.

[PAT303]

I get my checks from James Sage,I don't know what maker he uses but they are a good check. Pat

[Teutonius]

" Pat303 "

James Sage used Freechex from Charlie.

[Wal']

Try the local hardware shop for some aluminium flashing.

I got a piece cut about a metre long to try and it works well in my Freechex II 30 cal.

Already done that, but would be nice to fine a supply of precut width & coiled ready to use. ;)

Just trying to have it to easy I guess. :smile:


:castmine:

[PatMarlin]

I'm almost there folks. There's a few old orders left on the bench with shipping paid, but waiting for parts.

New website coming with online ordering for (in stock) dies here that will ship within a few days.

I'm also trying to set the slot dimensions closer on all calibers.


Calibers Now in production-

7mm cal, 270 cal, 30 cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 30PB cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 338 cal, 32/8mm cal, 32PB cal (includes 8mm), 32-20PB Winchester (includes 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police) 35 cal (includes 9mm), 35PB cal (Plain Base, includes 9mm), 375 cal, 375PB cal, 40/10mm cal, 40/10mmPB cal, 41 cal, 41PB cal,44PB cal, 44 cal, 44PB cal, 45 cal (fits both pistol and rifle), 9.3 cal, 45PB Pistol cal, 45PB Rifle cal, 45PBAR cal (tall check for the AR platform), 50 Cal Pistol (.501), 50 Cal Rifle (.512), 50PB Pistol, 50PB Rifle.

COMING SOON...
-more calibers including:
*
22 cal standard, 22T cal (tall), 22PB cal, 22PBT (tall) cal, 25cal, 25PB cal
6.5 cal, 6.5PB cal, 348 cal, 348PB cal, 405 cal
405PB cal ,480 cal ,480PB cal, Percussion Cap Dies.

[Wal']

Took the easy way out, just completed an order with Yonky for 2 coils of his aluminum .550" x.006" x93'

Should be here by this time next week, seems like a pleasant guy to work with.

[Sagebrush7]

I think this discussion of the 2 check makers is very beneficial to the 2 businesses. It gives both Pat and Charles a chance to see what has bothered some of their customers so they can improve their products if need be.

I know that if you sell enough of your product you will sooner or later get someone mad at you.

Pat has been here for many years and has been very open about things that slowed delivery, caused changes etc.

I have also used the tool from Charles. I believe Charles has been here a time or two but is not a regular here. Not faulting him either just a statement.

Constructive criticism helps everyone but grinding an axe benefits no one and most here are smart enough to pick up on those folks.

Bill it is a shame that Charles was driven from this site before I got here! He is smarter than than most of us. A wealth of knowlege that should be in a book. I have worked with him for over two years. His tools have improved with the help of many people . WHAT A SHAME! James Sage.

[Pooch]

Bill it is a shame that Charles was driven from this site before I got here! He is smarter than than most of us. A wealth of knowlege that should be in a book. I have worked with him for over two years. His tools have improved with the help of many people . WHAT A SHAME! James Sage.

James
I too know Charlie and have found him to be not only bright but in fact brilliant. He is a physicist and his wife an accomplished lawyer. I don't know the particulars for his apparent ostracisation but am saddened to hear of that as I have found him to be more than forthcoming in sharing knowledge without condecension.
He is not at all jaded in demeanor nor do I find him to be a cynic. His abcense is most surely a loss to this site.

[milprileb]

well, its a lick on me. I sortied in here after a few months absence (shooting you know) and am saddened the Hatfield & McCoy thing is going on again on gas checks. This has no value for anyone. So I will pitch in my thoughts.:

a. Look at videos, pick the tool you think meets your needs. What you see is what you get
b. Cease this tribal nonsense, if you like Pat's stuff then okay, if you like Charlies, then okay. Why make it a DO or Die thing?
c. Yonky is a good dude. So is Sage. Both have helped me and I was floundering badly at the time, they try to help others. Thanks to all.
d. Pick your tool, make checks and go shoot. Take control of your rifle shooting with cast bullets.
e. Shoot more for less: then make more bullets, make more checks and repeat: its the cycle of life

[PAT303]

Good post that one. Pat

[PAT303]

Bill it is a shame that Charles was driven from this site before I got here! He is smarter than than most of us. A wealth of knowlege that should be in a book. I have worked with him for over two years. His tools have improved with the help of many people . WHAT A SHAME! James Sage.

James,I don't know what you've done differently but the last lot of checks I've recieved from you were without doubt the best quality I've seen,each check I've used has been perfect. Pat

[Pooch]

Getting ready to load some .444 Marlin with the LEE 430-310-RF. Ordered some checks from James yesterday. Already in the mail.

[Sagebrush7]

James,I don't know what you've done differently but the last lot of checks I've recieved from you were without doubt the best quality I've seen,each check I've used has been perfect. Pat

Pat, My new to me slitter leaves a smoother edge on the medal. The tool is ancient but better than a paper cutter. The paper cutter strip works fine if you remember to turn the curled edge up. That ususally eliminates the small divit on the check left by the FCIII tool. POOCH I hope you are not blown away by Sandy!

[Pooch]

James, got my checks yesterday . . . thanks!

[MT Gianni]

Bill it is a shame that Charles was driven from this site before I got here! He is smarter than than most of us. A wealth of knowlege that should be in a book. I have worked with him for over two years. His tools have improved with the help of many people . WHAT A SHAME! James Sage.

As I recall it, and I have been here since the Shooters days, we asked Charlie to come and sell his product here. He visited and said that he preferred e-bay sales. I would like to see how he was driven off as that would be a bannable offense to any member.

[Wal']

Just finished making up my first lot of 35PB gaschecks using Pat's die & a couple of Yonky's .550x006 aluminum coils, there was no trimming or filing on the die as many mentioned.

He has quite a fast delivery service, even down here to Oz.

Everything just worked first up, pretty slick stuff, much easier than chopping up my alu/cans, not as colourful though I guess. :-|

Everything looks so purdy its a shame I have to go & ruin it all at the range. :grin:


:cbpour:

[TRguy]

I use my Free Chex in conjunction with an arbor press but understand they can be used by tapping with a hammer. I had one PM device but sold it. Have 2 Free Chex and can make a seasons worth of gas checks in an hour per caliber.

[fullofdays]

for the free chex, do you have different free chex III's for each caliber or can you just change parts for different calibers? I am looking for a .311 and .225

[Wal']

Yep..........need a different chex for each different calibre.

[JeffinNZ]

for the free chex, do you have different free chex III's for each caliber or can you just change parts for different calibers? I am looking for a .311 and .225

One tool per caliber. You can get by with one tool for .30cal and .303cal/7.62X54R etc.

[DrBill33]

As trhe old saying goes: "You pays your money and takes your chances". For PB, Pat is all that there is. For full, both are good ...simply work differently.

[kayak1]

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270235.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270235.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270236.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270236.jpg

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270237.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Gas%20Checks/Gas%20check%20making%20project/P1270237.jpg
Thanks you have convinced me to order one from Pat.

Pat seems to be a standup member of this forum.

[PatMarlin]

Hmmm, those (old) pics again... lol :mrgreen:


Calibers Now in production-

7mm cal, 270 cal, 30 cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 30PB cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 338 cal, 32/8mm cal, 32PB cal (includes 8mm), 32-20PB Winchester (includes 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police) 35 cal (includes 9mm), 35PB cal (Plain Base, includes 9mm), 375 cal, 375PB cal, 40/10mm cal, 40/10mmPB cal, 41 cal, 41PB cal,44PB cal, 44 cal, 44PB cal, 45 cal (fits both pistol and rifle), 9.3 cal, 45PB Pistol cal, 45PB Rifle cal, 45PBAR cal (tall check for the AR platform), 50 Cal Pistol (.501), 50 Cal Rifle (.512), 50PB Pistol, 50PB Rifle.

COMING SOON...
-more calibers including:

22 cal standard, 22T cal (tall), 22PB cal, 22PBT (tall) cal, 25cal, 25PB cal
6.5 cal, 6.5PB cal, 348 cal, 348PB cal, 405 cal
405PB cal ,480 cal ,480PB cal, Percussion Cap Dies.

[Forrest r]

Personally I don't care who makes the check maker I just don't want to handle the checks 2 or 3 times. 1 pull of the handle ='s 1 check.

[tjones]

Personally I don't care who makes the check maker I just don't want to handle the checks 2 or 3 times. 1 pull of the handle ='s 1 check.

That theory is true no matter what industry you're in. Handle material as little as necessary. -tj

[PatMarlin]

Personally I don't care who makes the check maker I just don't want to handle the checks 2 or 3 times. 1 pull of the handle ='s 1 check.


That theory is true no matter what industry you're in. Handle material as little as necessary. -tj


Theory...?

Most cast shooters- the ones who strive for perfection, accuracy, and to be able to do it consistently with a cast bullet, handle every aspect of casting, reloading, and shooting with great care and interest in doing so.

How many times do they take the time and handle every aspect of the process? Many times, and with excitement and interest. This is part of what makes an accomplished cast shooter. This is what drives a cast shooter.

I as many other folks here enjoy making our own gas checks that is yet again, one more step in controlling the outcome of our shooting accuracy, and giving us the option of yet more independence. One more handling step is of no consequence in this craft.

Theses are the one holer cast shooters who do it over and over again here at CB. And dare I say do it over and over again with my Checkmaker™ dies.

If cutting a disk, then forming the disk into a gascheck is to much trouble or hassle for someone in this industry, I believe they could find the road disappointing and frustrating in achieving great results in cast shooting.

...:drinks:

[armexman]

I am not going to be dissuaded from ordering my 9.3, 35PB, 41PB and 41, 30PB, from Pat. That I will do it in stages is a given. Hang on Pat.
You and Veral are changing the practice of cast boolits like Elmer and Walt!!!!!

[Muddydogs]

I did 400 checks the other night in a couple hours starting out with washed out cans and ending with nice little checks. A roll or material would probably be nice but with 3 or 4 pop cans in the garbage very night I just figure why not take the few minutes to hack them up. Ya Pat's check maker is a 2 step process but the hardest part of the process is getting a hold of them little round disks. Once I got the steps down its no problem sliding the disk off the cutter at a fast rate. Putting the disks in the cup portion of the die is easy and once you get the finger flip down they fall right into place. I might have a couple messed up checks out of 400 but they were my fault for not getting the disk into the cup right, other then that all the checks I made were uniform. One thing that drew me to the Checkmaker was the ability to use my Rock Chucker press. I don't need to have another press on my bench nor did I want to buy an arbor press or make some kind of holder for a die to use my drill press. I got the checkmaker, screwed it into the press and started to turn out checks.

Keep up the good work Pat, you have a great product and your plain base checks work great on them dang bevel base bullets that always get a lubed up base when lube sizing.

[PatMarlin]

Thanks for all the well wishes.

I'm not going anywhere. This is all I do now- Patmarlins

5 years now. You guys did this to me... :mrgreen:

I'm working daily in the shop refining procedures (that never ends), getting another machine online. Sometimes these machines don't want to always cooperate... :mrgreen:

Working hard to get all the 22 calibers dialed. It's taken new tooling block setups.

[Wal']

I just don't get it............if Lee didn't exist to bash which press would be the next target.

Some like auto cars some like manual .......... do we have to listen to this constant ******** on what best suits each reloader !!!!!!!!!

Just use the one that best suits your needs & leave us all out of it !!!!!!!!

[Forrest r]

Pat save the BS for someone who doesn't know any better!!!!!

If you think I'm going to make checks in 2 or 3 different steps because you say that's the way to do it, guess again.

You are absolutely correct with 1 thing though, I'll give you credit for that. Cast bullet shooters that strive for perfection do try to control every aspect of the reloading process make their own check makers instead of paying you up front & waiting a year or more to get 1 of yours.

1 pull of the handle ='s 1 check. A 35cal pb check maker that will work in a standard 7/8-14 press or an arbor press.

7651276513

It ain't rocket science, anyone with a lathe can make them.

[JeffinNZ]

Keep the discussion tidy people or it will be closed down.

[PatMarlin]

This has been puzzling to me from the start. I have never seen so much controversial BS flung back and forth by folks over something as idiotic and stupid as gas check forming dies. So much so I have been absent form this forum which I truly love, to avoid it.

For some reason, I have been attacked from the beginning since I started making dies here. It just has left me speechless... :roll:

So I will leave here again.

[garym1a2]

You should see the aurguments and BS over the posts in the lube section.
I recently brought some gas checks from a member here of the plan base .357,45 and normal type 30 cal. They where made with your tools, I have only tried the 30 cal ones so far and they fit quite well. In the near future I plan to buy a 30 cal gas check forming die. I figure even with the 2 step process I will make enough gas checks in an hour or two to keep me supplied for a year.

This has been puzzling to me from the start. I have never seen so much controversial BS flung back and forth by folks over something as idiotic and stupid as gas check forming dies. So much so I have been absent form this forum which I truly love, to avoid it.

For some reason, I have been attacked from the beginning since I started making dies here. It just has left me speechless... :roll:

So I will leave here again.

[tjones]

Rachel Jeantel could figure out the common reason for the rancor in the gc threads. -tj

[Smoke4320]

It is good to discuss the differences in the 2 designs especially for us newbies in this game ..but I sense its getting personal somehow..no need for that ..
state the facts on the designs/use and let the buyer decide what is best for him

[Dale in Louisiana]

I've bought from both of these guys and am quite happy with their products.

dale in Louisiana

[Jupiter7]

PatMarlin,

Don't leave. You're obviously doing something right, you're still in business. Maybe "anyone" with a lathe can make them, I don't own a lathe. I do own a truck, that doesnt make me truck driver. I'll order some PB dies sometime as cash allows and I can stay away from the S&S section for few days. Keep up the good work.

[armexman]

I for one will galdly help a fellow board memeber out and decide by my lonesome to be rancourous to my self.
Remember ten deep breaths! Sacre deu

[Love Life]

I have used both the Free Chex and the Pat Marlins PB gas check dies. Both made great gas checks. I sold the Free Chex because it was easy to psh the punch rod all the way down and it stuck in the die body. Not the end of the world, but it annoyed me. I sold the Pat Marlins PB die because I did not like cutting up pop cans. It was a pain in the ****. Now that ya'll have Yonky selling coil you have it made. It did not take long at all to punch out a couple sandwhich bags full of PB checks with the Pat Marlin die.

I would punch out a whole mess load of discs. Maybe an hours worth a day for a week. Then that Sunday I would turn them into completed gas checks. No big deal.

With the Free chex a complete gas check came off with every swing of the rubber mallet. It only made standard gas checks though.

I sold both of those tools and went with a custom tool that I feel addressed both issues of each check maker, and now I am happier than a pig in dookie.

Find out how valuable your time is, and buy based off of that. It is that simple.

[milprileb]

Very tribal subject, lines drawn, great emotion. Its not rocket science,
just look at both systems and figure out which is better. Its obvious both
will make checks, but here is a hint: one is indeed easier, faster and better.

If you can't figure that out, just buy any check making tool , any one and you will have all the checks you want.

[58 Siesta]

Been looking at buying one or the other for several pistol calibers with GC shank. I plan to use cans for material (I like beer). I haven't read any posts in this thread to help me make up my mind...

[JeffinNZ]

It doesn't have to be tribal. Only the participants make it that way.

The purpose of this site is to share experience and knowledge. We all have preferences for brands, styles, types of gear. Voicing your opinions, likes, dislikes, ideas, suggestions etc is fine but it is expected members to do so respectfully and politely. Further, YOU as a member have agreed to do so.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pat and Charlie have done boolit shooters a tremendous service with their respective inventions. Let's show them some likewise respect by being civil is our discussion around said.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Been looking at buying one or the other for several pistol calibers with GC shank. I plan to use cans for material (I like beer). I haven't read any posts in this thread to help me make up my mind...
58
I have both brands. They both work very well.

The differences are as simple as this:

The Patmarlin Checkmaker requires two steps (including a simple die setup for each step) to make a gas check, but mounts in any standard reloading press. The Material needs to be cut into precisely sized strips, there is certainly a learning curve to that and maybe a purchase of a Paper shear also. Then handling the "discs" for the second step (especially the smaller calibers) is challenging at first, til you develop a technique that works for you...and clean fingers :)

The FreeChex III requires the use of an arbor press or drill press, and maybe some lite fabrication of a base for the tooling to sit on.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?179874-FREECHEX-III-new-user&highlight=
BUT, once setup, you get a check everytime you pull the handle, and you don't need to cut precise sized strips of material.


Lastly, Different boolits and different calibers require different thicknesses of material. My 22 Cal FCIII likes 0.008" lith plate the best and works on all my different styles of boolits. I understand 30 cal boolits with a shank, typically like 0.014" best. Popcan metal (0.004" alum.) is almost assuredly too thin for your use on pistol boolits with a gas check shank. Popcan metal works great with Plain base boolits, and that's were the Patmarlin checkmaker shines IMHO. But, I haven't used a freechex tool that makes a plain based check...I'm not sure if Charlie offers a Plain base style freechex tool yet ???

Good Luck,
Jon

[RobS]

Been looking at buying one or the other for several pistol calibers with GC shank. I plan to use cans for material (I like beer). I haven't read any posts in this thread to help me make up my mind...

A gas checked shank bullet design will require a thicker material than beer or pop cans. Material of .014" works well for many GC boolit designs and a beer/pop can is typically .004" or so and works well for a plain base gas checker for plain base boolits.

[jmort]

"I'm not sure if Charlie offers a Plain base style freechex tool yet ???"

No, and he never will.

From thread Use of Gas Checks for the "Inverted Loading Method"
"First off, I apologize if this was previously discussed. Could not find a prior thread, but that means nothing. I was talking to Charles Darnall aka FreeChex manufacturer, and I inquired about getting a "plain base" check maker a la Pat Marlin's plain base check maker. I only use hand presses so FreeChex was only option. I only load with hand tools and hand presses. He had some interesting comments about the concept of plain base gas checks which pretty much sum-up my feelings, that they are "Unicorns", my word not his. By definition "squishing/swaging" a concentric plain base bullet down will cause deformation. I think the plain base check users may be fooling themselves and wasting time. Square peg/round hole. Now to his solution, and/or the solution of one of his customers, use the gas check for the "inverted loading method" - his term. His testing, and his customer's testing, show no leading. He fired at large "targets/cardboard" to see if the checks co-witnessed and there was no sign of the check. One theory is that the bullet/check stick together somehow, possibly fused by powder gas or otherwise. Regardless, it seems to be an interesting area for exploration. He did caution, in his opinion, that the check should be carefully seated upside down in the case and level and would work best in straight- walled cartridges or at least case with sufficient neck. I think it is an area that might be quite fruitful as the upside down check would act as a gas check or over powder "card" or as a hollow base bullet. The check would need a slight flair to stay in place. It appears the idea works, and works well, and I would like to see a sticky for development of this idea. I only have plain base molds and wanted to up the ante without having to buy new molds. I got the FreeChex II, the Lee Loader of check makers, have hammer, will travel. Now I would like to see what can be done. I believe the idea will be a great advantage in lead fouling prevention, accuracy, and economy."

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?205223-Use-of-Gas-Checks-for-the-quot-Inverted-Loading-Method-quot

[RobS]

Well I own a PB Check maker and they do work end of story. This comes from a person who has made them from copper, brass and aluminum material, reloaded boolits with them and have shot boolits that have plain base gas check covering their ars ends. Improved accuracy with loads that were borderline too much for the alloy utilized. PB GC's helped with leading issues associated with some of these loads too.

[Sagebrush7]

"I'm not sure if Charlie offers a Plain base style freechex tool yet ???"

No, and he never will.

From thread Use of Gas Checks for the "Inverted Loading Method"
"First off, I apologize if this was previously discussed. Could not find a prior thread, but that means nothing. I was talking to Charles Darnall aka FreeChex manufacturer, and I inquired about getting a "plain base" check maker a la Pat Marlin's plain base check maker. I only use hand presses so FreeChex was only option. I only load with hand tools and hand presses. He had some interesting comments about the concept of plain base gas checks which pretty much sum-up my feelings, that they are "Unicorns", my word not his. By definition "squishing/swaging" a concentric plain base bullet down will cause deformation. I think the plain base check users may be fooling themselves and wasting time. Square peg/round hole. Now to his solution, and/or the solution of one of his customers, use the gas check for the "inverted loading method" - his term. His testing, and his customer's testing, show no leading. He fired at large "targets/cardboard" to see if the checks co-witnessed and there was no sign of the check. One theory is that the bullet/check stick together somehow, possibly fused by powder gas or otherwise. Regardless, it seems to be an interesting area for exploration. He did caution, in his opinion, that the check should be carefully seated upside down in the case and level and would work best in straight- walled cartridges or at least case with sufficient neck. I think it is an area that might be quite fruitful as the upside down check would act as a gas check or over powder "card" or as a hollow base bullet. The check would need a slight flair to stay in place. It appears the idea works, and works well, and I would like to see a sticky for development of this idea. I only have plain base molds and wanted to up the ante without having to buy new molds. I got the FreeChex II, the Lee Loader of check makers, have hammer, will travel. Now I would like to see what can be done. I believe the idea will be a great advantage in lead fouling prevention, accuracy, and economy."

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?205223-Use-of-Gas-Checks-for-the-quot-Inverted-Loading-Method-quot

Well I don't want to start a stamped! I have ( seven) plain base Frechex III's .358PB, 10mmPB, 40mmPB, .41PB .429PB, .452PB and a .458PB. Don't tell Charlie!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have ( seven) plain base Frechex III's .358PB, 10mmPB, 40mmPB, .41PB .429PB, .452PB and a .458PB. Don't tell Charlie!
What's the difference between the 10mmPB and the 40mmPB ?
is it the height ?
Jon

[Sagebrush7]

Jon, just the package!

[58 Siesta]

Reading this thread and the respective websites. it seems like a Freechex II might be the ticket. Maybe a roll of roofing flashing, as suggested elsewhere would be better than cans. I would like to use my press, but cutting strips sounds like a pain. No arbor or drill press here... It's hammer time!

[jmort]

"It's hammer time!"

That is why I got the FreeChex II

[357maximum]

Anytime you put a group of men that are passionate about a particular subject into the same room you are gonna have arguments and disagreements about certain things...even if them men actually agree but use different terms....tis human nature. Larry Gibson and I have argued (softly) for years over nothing more than terminology usage on the same basic lines of agreement. It is what it is sometimes...argue politely and never walk away mad.

[outdoorfan]

I sold both of those tools and went with a custom tool that I feel addressed both issues of each check maker, and now I am happier than a pig in dookie.




Care to share where one could get that tool?

[PatMarlin]

I'm probably just going to make one more post about the subject.

Yaw- I've heard it all about PB gas checks. Fact is they are dead on accurate, and work. We have been getting remarkable performance out of firearms with PB checks from the start, even auto loaders with group sizes shrinking, and no more leading.

I have customers who are winning local IPSC competitions with PB gas checks.

Choice in our industry is a good thing. I've been cranking out these dies for 5 years now. I have sold many monthly, and they are being used all around the world. Most all of my customers are repeat customers. I've had very few complaints ever, and far less than a very few ever returned (less than 2 dozen in all this time) with very few out of spec dies needing replaced. I don't know of any product that has done that well for QC, except for my ROCKDock™ system which to date I've never had one returned., Ever.

I probably am going to be the "Veral" of gas check dies as I have no plans on stopping, and have invested my life in it.

I won't stop until I offer every caliber that cast shooters use, including PB versions for each.


Checkmaker™ Gas Check Forming Die Sets:

-Meet or exceed accuracy shooting results of factory gas checks.

-Very user friendly- fast and easy to use, and to set up.

-Produce a bare minimum of material waste.

-Produce concentric gas checks that fit and STAY on, using the accuracy of your reloading press.

-Heavy duty machined quality with no moving parts to break or gum up.

-Flexible- accommodate a wide range of material thickness- and work with a wide range of Boolit diameters all within one caliber set.

-Lifetime purchase and user re-sharpen able

I fully guarantee EVERY die set to be spot on and work flawlessly to your satisfaction, with a "No BS" warranty.



Calibers Now in production-

7mm cal, 270 cal, 30 cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 30PB cal (includes 7.62x39, 303 Brit w/opt male die), 338 cal, 32/8mm cal, 32PB cal (includes 8mm), 32-20PB Winchester (includes 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police) 35 cal (includes 9mm), 35PB cal (Plain Base, includes 9mm), 375 cal, 375PB cal, 40/10mm cal, 40/10mmPB cal, 41 cal, 41PB cal,44PB cal, 44 cal, 44PB cal, 45 cal (fits both pistol and rifle), 9.3 cal, 45PB Pistol cal, 45PB Rifle cal, 45PBAR cal (tall check for the AR platform), 50 Cal Pistol (.501), 50 Cal Rifle (.512), 50PB Pistol, 50PB Rifle.

COMING SOON...
-more calibers including:

22 cal standard, 22T cal (tall), 22PB cal, 22PBT (tall) cal, 25cal, 25PB cal
6.5 cal, 6.5PB cal, 348 cal, 348PB cal, 405 cal
405PB cal , 416 cal, 416PB cal, 480 cal ,480PB cal, Percussion Cap Dies.


...:drinks:

[goofyoldfart]

Don't stop Pat!!!! the only thing that I see as a problem with your check maker----- is which one do I get first? being on S.S it does limit my ability to have all my wants at once. As I see it, yours works great for the home and a freechex would be just the thing for using in the boonies. To me, that is the best of both worlds. OH,yea-----I'm retired so as have a lot of time to do the "two step". In NO WAY is this to disparage Charlies gear----It's just that I see both tools for separate uses. Both are HIGH QUALITY!!!. God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofyoldfart <aka Goofy, GOF and Godfrey>

[Rangefinder]

Looks like this thread was revitalized after some time--is the discussion still unsettled? Well of course it is! Personally, I've never used a Free Chex. I got a couple of Pat's Check Maker sets on a whim of good luck and great timing. When I got them I still had quite a supply of Hornaday checks, so I tested Pats just to get familiar--then put them on the shelf with the thought "I'm gonna be darn glad I have these one of these days..." Every once in a while I'd pull them down and punch disks for a while, toss 'em in a zip-lock, and put 'em back on the shelf. Some other time I'd pull everything down, punch out checks for a while, toss 'em in another zip-lock and put everything away. Before I knew it I'd have to start filling another bag... Now, I could probably go years without punching another check before I'd have to drag them back out from necessity.

Well, fast-forward. It's taken a long time to burn through most of my previous check supply--and I still have a few hundred of them left. I have thousands of aluminum checks besides and hadn't done much more than tinker with a few loads till recently. Not long ago I started playing with powder coating boolits. Well, after using my tumble method, the PC paint increased the shank size just enough to make the hornaday checks not fit. Wiping the shank of every boolit prior to baking was a tedious PITA. But... Holy-heck, the checks that I made early on with Pat's dies slipped on snug, crimped nicely, and finished perfectly. So... now I'm driving PC'd cast boolits through my AK with frightening accuracy and top end velocity. Pat filled the needed gap--just long before either of us knew. Liked the security of having them before. NOW, I'd never part with them because they're necessary to my current boolits.

[PatMarlin]

THanks for the compliments and the good results...!

I started making Checkmaker™ dies in late 2008 (starting with 30 cal), so we've come along way. Major life changes as well along the way, but now I have a nice shop with 4 CNC machines, in addition to the manual machines I started with and all dedicated to my products. Just now starting to feel production sliding into a much faster gear with 5 years of perfecting the process, but still more to do. Folks don't realize what an undertaking doing something like this can entail.

The die design has stayed the same and is proven. I've upped QC and improved along the way, but after numerous dies sold over the years, I've only had a handful yet to be returned. You guys have helped me make a living doing something I enjoy that I believe I will remain doing as long as I can stand God willing, so that will be many years to come.

Pat... :drinks:

Calibers Now in production-

7mm cal, 270 cal, 30 cal, 30PB cal, 303 British cal, 338 cal, 32/8mm cal, 32PB cal (includes 8mm), 32-20PB Winchester (includes 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police), 348 cal, 348PB cal, 35 cal (includes 9mm), 35PB cal (Plain Base, includes 9mm) 38-55PB Winchester Cal, 375 cal, 375PB cal, 40/10mm cal, 40/10mmPB cal, 41 cal, 41PB cal, 44 cal, 44PB cal, 45 cal (fits both pistol and rifle), 9.3 cal, 45PB Pistol cal, 45PB Rifle cal, 45PBAR cal (tall check for the AR platform), 50 Cal Pistol (.501), 50 Cal Rifle (.512), 50PB Pistol, 50PB Rifle.

COMING SOON...
-more calibers including:

22 cal standard, 22T cal (tall), 22PB cal, 22PBT (tall) cal, 25cal, 25PB cal
6.5 cal, 6.5PB cal, 405 cal, 405PB cal ,480 cal ,480PB cal, Percussion Cap Dies.

[contender1]

I have sat here & read all 7 pages of info, as well as some of the bickering. I ignore the bickering,, as I wish to learn more about GC making.
I have several boolit molds. Some are shanked for "factory" G/C's. And, some are PB molds. I buy molds to cast a boolit to do a specific job.
Knowing there are "options" to being able to add a G/C to a PB boolit is interesting.

I have visited the two makers websites, and I do have a question, not noted on Pat's web site.
There is no place to find out how much you charge for a "Checkmaker."
Where can I find pricing?

Ok, two questions,, when are you going to have a 480 Cal Checkmaker?

[PatMarlin]

Here's prices on my website:

http://www.patmarlins.com/Checkmaker%AA_Prices_and_Ord.html

Email me for more info or an order request.

Send me a 480 sample and I'll add 480 to my production catalog.

Thanks ...:drinks:

[Gelandangan]

Just sent you an email Pat, want to buy a couple of plain base boolit checkmakers.
Look forward to your reply.
Cheers

[contender1]

Thanks for the info Pat. I'm copying this info to pass along to my better half as part of my Christmas. If I don't get one for XMas, I'll order one later AND send a .480 to you as a sample.

[FergusonTO35]

Question: Can both the Freechex and Checkmaker produce good checks from beer and soda cans? I've been using checks made from this material with perfect success, purchasing them on auction sites.

[TheCelt]

Did you say PERCUSSION CAP DIES!!!!!!!!!! Yahooooooo!!! I want one for #11 caps please Sir!!! Dang Virginia, there is a Santa Claus! While you're at it I'll take a .22 standard set as well

[JKH]

Celt, do a search for "Tap a Cap" costs about $35 and is available from most reloading supply houses. It is a one step die that forms a percussion cap out of pop can material and uses roll caps, its been around since the 70's, I plan on buying one even though I'm not into black powder but do have a few ML's and caps can be hard to find in my area.

[TheCelt]

Celt, do a search for "Tap a Cap" costs about $35 and is available from most reloading supply houses. It is a one step die that forms a percussion cap out of pop can material and uses roll caps, its been around since the 70's, I plan on buying one even though I'm not into black powder but do have a few ML's and caps can be hard to find in my area.

Thanks for the "heads-up" JKH, I'll check it out. I would LOVE to manufacture my own percussion caps. I think a wet primer slurry would work as well as a roll cap if not better (see the thread on re-loading primers).

[TheCelt]

Forster "Tap-a-Cap" is a discontinued item and is not available anywhere I could find!!!!

[donovansn585]

I have owned/used both tools.

FreechexII- Performed very well and made checks like it was supposed to. It is the kind you wack with a hammer. I made a board/box setup so my formed gas checks fell into the box. I could really crank them out.

Checkmaker 35PB- Performed very well. Required two steps to create checks. Before yonky came along you had to use aluminum beverage can material. A pain, but necessary. Now with Yonky's material on the market I see the PB tool being another option for me. The only thing I did not like about the Checkmaker was the shock of punching the disks. It made the reloading bench rattle.

With that being said I no longer own either tool. I had a check making tool made by one of the members on this forum and it suits my needs better.

Could you possibly tell me which member made you the tool and how to contact them

[35 shooter]

I got the free chex that you use the hammer with....love it. In the future i want to try a Pat Marlin to use on my press. I'm quite sure i'll feel the same about it. It's just neat to be able to make your own checks.

[kryogen]

Can the freechex 3 produce pb checks for 9mm ?
what is the optimal thckness for 9mm?

[dragon813gt]

Can the freechex 3 produce pb checks for 9mm ?
what is the optimal thckness for 9mm?

No

And it depends on the gas check shank on your mold. Most of my 35cal checks are .008 but some molds require slightly thicker.

[kryogen]

Plain base molds

[kryogen]

mmm ok so ill just get the 35 PB for my 9mm

[flyingrhino]

I use the cheap Lee Reloader Press for my bullet sizing. Will this press work with the checkmaker by Pat Marlin? For reloading presses I have a 650xl and a SDB.

[abqcaster]

It works on mine with .35 cal checkmaker.

[robertbank]

Can the freechex 3 produce pb checks for 9mm ?
what is the optimal thckness for 9mm?

I use Pat's PB gas checks made from pop and beer cans. They work just fine. I don't have a 9MM mold with a GC specific shank.

Take Care

Bob

[Retumbo]

I have actually moved away from PM checkmakers. Once you read the instructions for making your own you can customize them to your bullet and to the material you have readily available. Freechex or home made for me.

[JMax]

I have both and had some problems with Pat's but he was very patient and got me up and working. I also have a FreeChex III and love it as well. The FXIII makes my 303 and thick 30 cal checks with .015 metal and PM's for thinner metal and those pesky plain base bullets. Pat's service is excellent and I used to shoot with Charlie when I lived near Camarillo. Both are gentlemen and provide excellent products with different approaches to making great checks.

[Pee Wee]

We have 6 freechecks, just got the 38 free check IV. set up on an arbor press, all work like a charm, use the cut rolls from Yonky. Charley replaced a check that I broke for free, cant say enough good things about Charley.

[Maximumbob54]

I've read some complaints in other thread that the PM tool makes little irregular looking bottle caps. And in fact it does. And I happen to prefer them that way. Maybe it's in my head but I think they tend to stick to the base better. And the plain base checks have allowed me to stop using expensive Lyman #2 alloy. Unless I'm looking for accuracy at longer ranges I now use mostly range scrap and with the PB check added they seem to make accuracy at closer ranges happen even with .357 magnum pressure. Add to this I've been powder coating bullets for a while now and I've noticed the PB applied after the coating tightens up the groups a little. If nothing else, it's been fun investigating everything.

[Pee Wee]

We were having the same problem with our checks, we also use range lead, we want our boolits to be at 14 BHN but we were using .014 material, for 44 and 45 cal after speaking with yonky and ordering his material we changed to .017 material and problem solved. checks stay on and accuracy has improved and stabilized. I shoot lawn steel with gas checked 44 special 215 grain and gas checked 45 long colt 250 grain made life easier when lube and sizing.

[Vern Humphrey]

Dumb question: How do well coke can checks work on bullets with shanks?

[abqcaster]

Dumb question: How do well coke can checks work on bullets with shanks?
They won't work. They're too thin and too broad.

[just_shooter]

I have PatMarlins tool and it works excellent. But I was wondering if Freechex III will do the job for my needs aswell. Can I use Freechex III to make GC from soda cans (.004 thick aluminum) and put them on .225 plain base bullets? With PatMarlins tool the GCs stay very firmly on this bullet. How about Freechex III?

[JeffinNZ]

I have PatMarlins tool and it works excellent. But I was wondering if Freechex III will do the job for my needs aswell. Can I use Freechex III to make GC from soda cans (.004 thick aluminum) and put them on .225 plain base bullets? With PatMarlins tool the GCs stay very firmly on this bullet. How about Freechex III?

No, Freechex is not a PB tool. Pat is the pioneer there.

[swheeler]

No, Freechex is not a PB tool. Pat is the pioneer there.

That's note quite correct. Hanned Precision was the pioneer I believe. Up until about 1990 Hanned Precision was still advertising their Freechec Gas Check Maker. The ad read, Freechec dies make high-quality gas checks for plain based cast bullets out of aluminum pop can material.They swage on during lubri-sizing and won't come off in flight.$46.50 ea

[PatMarlin]

That is correct. Hanned Precision was the first PB dies that I know of, and gas check dies that I know of. That's where another manufacturer has claimed they invented gas check making dies and they are incorrect- totally a false claim.

What is unique and original is my Checkmaker™ name, design, and function.

[PatMarlin]

I've read some complaints in other thread that the PM tool makes little irregular looking bottle caps. And in fact it does. And I happen to prefer them that way. Maybe it's in my head but I think they tend to stick to the base better. And the plain base checks have allowed me to stop using expensive Lyman #2 alloy. Unless I'm looking for accuracy at longer ranges I now use mostly range scrap and with the PB check added they seem to make accuracy at closer ranges happen even with .357 magnum pressure. Add to this I've been powder coating bullets for a while now and I've noticed the PB applied after the coating tightens up the groups a little. If nothing else, it's been fun investigating everything.

It's not in your head Bob and you are correct. That is a fact, and has been proven by CB shooters here with R&D testing over the years, the bottle cap has benefits. If someone thinks bottle caps are bad, just use thicker metal and they disappear.

I've had actually (2) customers wish to return the dies because the metal they used bottle capped. I always suggest to actually shoot them to see what they find. One set I had to refund, because he was convinced the dies were bad, simple by looking... lol

Here's a link on the subject I wrote a long time ago:
http://www.patmarlins.com/theory-and-engineering-of-the-checkmaker/

[PatMarlin]

"Dumb question: How do well coke can checks work on bullets with shanks?"


They won't work. They're too thin and too broad.

This is incorrect.

Soda cans do work with my die dies, with limited accuracy and depending on your mold- some hold very well. This is a benefit to the Checkmaker™ design.

Here are some examples...

Here is a CB member using soda cans with his 30 caliber Checkmaker™ dies:
http://www.patmarlins.com/do-checkmaker-gas-checks-stay-on-once-fired/

Another example is PatrickL here had posted many 2" groups with his lever actions @50 and soda can gas checks:
http://www.patmarlins.com/theory-and-engineering-of-the-checkmaker/

They don't produce one hole groups at 100 yrds like .014" thick metal has with my dies consistently, but they do work.

I know there's a lot newcomers who don't know about the progress of gas check dies over the years here at CB, so I try to show examples when the subject comes up.


PB checks are all together different. .004 Soda cans work GREAT for PB checks....!

[Tackleberry41]

So I gather the difference is Marlins set up uses a standard reloading press, the other a drill press. Have both so not really an issue. But I like the idea of being able to put a gas check on PB bullets, I have been wanting a NOE mold in GC for my Mosin, but has not had any in stock forever, could just put checks on the one I already have this way. Not really concerned about how fast, as I really don;t go thru that many checks anyways, I would prefer quality over quantity, so looks like Marlins set up is the way to go.

[dragon813gt]

, I would prefer quality over quantity, so looks like Marlins set up is the way to go.
This implies that a Freexhex tool does not make a quality gas check. This would be a false claim. Quality gas checks are dependent on the raw material used in them. The brand used to make them is a personal choice.

[PatMarlin]

I never understood the controversy here at CB regarding gas check dies. Even to the point of hostility which is hilarious.

I believe shooters are very fortunate to have manufacturers make tools available and give you choices, as I can tell you first hand it's a Hard, hard, road to go down and actually be successful manufacturing a product for the shooting industry. Most give up.

Ford or Chevy- take your pic. Like every other tool, die, press, in this industry, they all work and it depends on how you would like to work to make your own cartridges, to be able and (FREE) to go out and shoot and have some fun for cryn' out loud. '

That's what's important. Don't mean a damn on how you got there.

Pat ...:drinks:

[Tailhunter]

Thanks for those words of wisdom ......

[6622729]

So, puting speed of fabrication aside, which makes the higher quality gas check from copper?

[dragon813gt]

It depends on the raw material used. They both produce high quality checks.

[6622729]

It depends on the raw material used. They both produce high quality checks.

The material I plan to use is .010" copper. Alloy is 110 annealed. These will be gas checks for 155gr super sonic 300AAC. Should I consider one over the other?

[PatMarlin]

I assume you're talking about a gas check shank mold? Will that material work? Yes.

But performance depends on a lot of variables just as with everything in cast shooting.

I always suggest -try before you buy- before investing in a large quantity purchase of metals.

[DukeInFlorida]

The ONLY system we use is Free Chex III from Charlie Darnell: http://www.freechex.net/


Has anyone used both? Which worked best for you? I'm just getting into loading cast with GC and was thinking about getting a checkmaker of some sort and don't really know which way to go. Thanks for any help.

[Tailhunter]

I can attest to the fact that patmarlins check making dies work without all the additional problems.

[Retumbo]

Will see in three months when you had a chance to abuse his.


I can attest to the fact that patmarlins check making dies work without all the additional problems.

[Retumbo]

From another site


Posted this before,

http://vid1061.photobucket.com/albums/t477/yomma4/MOV02027_zpsqfkvim5c.mp4

http://vid1061.photobucket.com/albums/t477/yomma4/MOV02026_zpsaaq1olzj.mp4

Got rid of my pm check maker

[Tailhunter]

Will see in three months when you had a chance to abuse his.
We will see if the PM checkmaker can last 300 checks worth of abuse. Thats almost funny. If a tool cant take it, it isnt my fault.

The minions strike again. Sad really.

[PatMarlin]

Wow... lol

I'm impressed to see someone so passionate about gas checks, to even go as far to ad foley gunshot background sound effects every time the Checkmaker™ is fired.... Hahahhaaa

Seriously folks. This ford vs chev controversy that has gone on here ever since I started Patmarlins, way back in 2008- even to the point of continuos hostility and is just pathetic.

If you like Charlie's dies, buy his. If you like mine, buy mine. Speed has never been my focus. Range results with one holer cast groups over and over by shooters for years from members here and cast shooters world wide, not to mention my dies winning in competition championships has been.

For you newcomers, just a small example of those tests and range results can be found on my website. Haven't had time to post the numerous more shooters have sent me. I've been to busy in the shop. Getting dies out the door.

So really- just get out and shoot. Please.

Pat ...:drinks:

[35 shooter]

The main thing i've discovered that is most important about making my own checks is not who's tool i'm using, but the ability to make a check that equals or surpasses the accuracy of Hornady commercial checks.

To me picking which tool to use comes down to what i'll use to make them with...my reloading press(Pat's) or an arbor press(Charlie's).

The main thing after that is to find out through range testing which thickness and material works best for the die and the accuracy in your rifle or handgun. Sometimes this takes some trial and error, but is well worth the effort in accuracy gain once the best combination is found.

I bang my checks out one at a time on one of Charlies original hammer tools in .35 cal. Granted it's a bit slow, but i can make checks at home or on the road, or in hunting camp. Lol all i need is a hard surface and my rubber hammer.

I do like Charlie's tools and my homeade al. checks have proven more accurate than anything i can buy and size on tight and don't come off.
Even at 2600 fps. in a 35 whelen.

Having said that about using Charlies tools, which i KNOW to be precision made, i wouldn't hesitate to order from Pat if i decide to punch them out on my reloading press. I'm quite sure i would be making precision checks in no time with his too.

Both Pat an Charlie have made it possible for a lot of folks(me included) to have checks available to them through the crunch times when you couldn't find Hornady and Lymans anywhere!
Being able to make my own and experiment has also taught me one size doesn't fit all and i now look at the check thickness and material as just as important a component to the load as the powder choice, seating depth, etc.

I for one am glad both Charlie and Pat are keeping us supplied with check making tools.
Pat's tool is a 2 stage process that works on your reloading press.Charlie's tool makes the check in one pass on an arbor press.
Pick your poison and start cranking out your own checks.!![smilie=w:

[Love Life]

I've owned gas check making tools from both manufacturers. I much preferred the Freechex. Not because Pat Marlin's were bad, but the Freechex was faster and eliminated a step. At the end of it all I sold both models and just buy Hornady checks. It's worth the money to save me that time making checks.

Pick your poison, as both models made round things that squish to bullet shanks quite nicely.

[tjones]

This is the true comparison for the FreeChex and Marlins tool not a FreeChex III. It's an idea used in many places and found on youtube in Europe too! tj

http://www.freechex.net/photo_b.html

https://youtu.be/fab6JeE-FNs

[robertbank]

So I gather the difference is Marlins set up uses a standard reloading press, the other a drill press. Have both so not really an issue. But I like the idea of being able to put a gas check on PB bullets, I have been wanting a NOE mold in GC for my Mosin, but has not had any in stock forever, could just put checks on the one I already have this way. Not really concerned about how fast, as I really don;t go thru that many checks anyways, I would prefer quality over quantity, so looks like Marlins set up is the way to go.

Buy what you find meets your needs. I use Pat's PB and regular GC makers. Both work great. I bought a 1"x3" sheet of aluminum roof sheet for next to nothing and made a zillion regular GC's for my .357mag mold. In no time at all I have more GC's than I will use in the next two years. I also use his PB GC maker. I use pop and beer cans for the source of metal ( POP = Soda Cans in US talk). I cut up my cans and make GC's everting I cast and have to wait for the melt to ...well melt. I have a margarine container full if GC's and another half full after loading 500 rounds of 9MM and a couple thousand .38spl cartridges. I shoot a lot of 9MM and 38spl and stay ahead of the game using this method.

For me Pat's system meets my needs. The GC's produced work extremely well. I am a satisfied customer and Pat's service is very good.

Take Care

Bob

[RogerDat]

Seems to me either way you get to make checks, and that both have a solid reputation. As with all things reloading it is about saving money right? Well either way you buy a die, and some metal that has a price. You invest some time and you get X number of gas checks. Now purchasing those gas checks has a known cost, your time has some value (known only to you... or your wife, they always seem to know when you are wasting valuable time) So it all boils down to how many rounds you are going to be "forced" to go out and shoot to reach payback. And what molds you might need to purchase vs using PB gas checks.

FreeChex cost a bit more, you need a arbor press, or drill press. If you have one fine, if not HF with a 20% off coupon call it $50. Not big money but something, call it 1,500 gas checks worth. Some will even prefer having a piece of equipment dedicated to a single task. Others will consider using the same reloading press as the load with to make checks an advantage.

If you already have a mold with GC shank makes some difference in payback as opposed to having to buy a GC mold, when compared to having a PB mold you like and buying a PM die to do plain base gas checks. Mold prices vary but you know what you have or will have to buy, factor that cost if any in gas checks. For a Lee DC mold maybe 500 gas checks for a 5 cavity NOE maybe more like 4,000 gas checks. Have one you can use then could be 0 gas checks.

Then there is your time, and that depends on how many of the little suckers your going to make and how frequently. How long you figure 1000 .303 British gas checks will last? VS 1000 for your .308? For some reason people with 40's seem to burn through ammo, maybe because it is fun to shoot? Most would find 1000 gas checks for .357 would last longer than 1000 for their .40 would. The PM checkmakers are less expensive but will not generally be as fast produce a given amount of gas checks. The more you produce the faster the payback in time is from more rapid production.

You might have one of those GC/PB mixed cavity molds and want to go with PM dies so you can use same design and process to make checks for both types. I tend to value to having the same tool and process when possible for my production work. So if I was buying PM's dies for plain base I would be more inclined to purchase the same make of tool for gas check shank bullets. Others may feel less strongly about using different process and would be fine with one die and process for PB and a different one for GC or higher volume production. See that is the nice thing, the tools in question have slightly different focus and approach which gives us the consumer good choices to meet our individual needs.

So one sort of needs to assess what one wants to accomplish or needs and pick the right tool. After all we are not talking about a choice between warm beer and cold soft drink. More of an ale or pilsner choice.


Better? That sort of sounds like the argument about .38 special in a classic reliable revolver vs 9mm in some bottom feeding piece of tupperware? All boils down to my choice is right! :bigsmyl2: ..... for me anyway.

[JeffinNZ]

Roger: It's not purely a factor of cost saving. There is also the home brewed, not reliant on the industry aspect.

[dragon813gt]

Roger: It's not purely a factor of cost saving. There is also the home brewed, not reliant on the industry aspect.

Exactly why I started making my own. Gas checks have disappeared off the shelves just like every other component. They will disappear in the future. The less I have to buy the better. I know I spent more money on the tooling than I will ever recoup. But I happen to like buying and using tools.

[RogerDat]

Roger: It's not purely a factor of cost saving. There is also the home brewed, not reliant on the industry aspect. That was why the purple font color. Color used for tongue in cheek or sarcastic statements.

In reality one could probably buy around 4,000 GC's for what it costs to set up and start making those gas checks. The first GC cost at least $100 possibly more. Around 4k GC made they start getting "cheaper" than store bought. Knowing the alum or copper stock can make whatever I have dies for? That has real value too.

Yes we make ammo for less but I doubt many of us actually save any money for many years, too many interesting molds or gizmos to buy and try. If one shoots enough the payoff is quicker. But I know there are cheap steel case that I can buy for prices that compete with reloaded on price for at least a couple of calibers. Where they can't compete is in knowing they are only out of stock until I make more, and in exactly the weight and style I know works well for my use.

I do try to think in terms of payback time when making a comparison over what item to purchase. Thinking in terms of payback allows me to evaluate what I get for additional cost or what I give up to save money. But often the motivation for the research is as you say independence and the satisfaction of doing for myself. That and knowing I'm not at the mercy of the market or congress. Both which sometimes get very competitive for who can be the more foolish.

[Tailhunter]

Bustin out a bunch of checks with the PatMarlins checkmaker. Nice, no learning curve, just great checks. Easy to clean up. No special tools or holders needed. It really is nice.

[sparky45]

Excellent; glad you got it worked out and settled on Pat's equipment.

[6622729]

I ordered 1000 copper gas checks from Sage Outdoors for 30 caliber to get me started on my cast 300AAC loads. Wow do they go on nice to my Lee C312-155-2R cast boolits using the Lee sizing die! I read somewhere that Sage uses Patmarlin's gas check makers and since this thread seems to make it sort of a toss up between the two primary manufacturers, I went with Patmarlin's for my maker. I don't think I will mind the two steps. I want tight fitting and most accurate shooting. I can't wait to see if home made copper gas checks can turn out as nice as the Sage are working.

[35 shooter]

I ordered 1000 copper gas checks from Sage Outdoors for 30 caliber to get me started on my cast 300AAC loads. Wow do they go on nice to my Lee C312-155-2R cast boolits using the Lee sizing die! I read somewhere that Sage uses Patmarlin's gas check makers and since this thread seems to make it sort of a toss up between the two primary manufacturers, I went with Patmarlin's for my maker. I don't think I will mind the two steps. I want tight fitting and most accurate shooting. I can't wait to see if home made copper gas checks can turn out as nice as the Sage are working.

I think Sage's uses Charlies tools lol. I'm sure you'll be just fine with Pat's though. They both make checks that work.

[6622729]

I think Sage's uses Charlies tools lol. I'm sure you'll be just fine with Pat's though. They both make checks that work.

Glad it seems to be a toss up then. lol! I was concerned that gas checks staying on were going to be an issue. I have not found that to be the case with this particular gas check on this particular boolit. Very encouraged with the early success.

[35 shooter]

Glad it seems to be a toss up then. lol! I was concerned that gas checks staying on were going to be an issue. I have not found that to be the case with this particular gas check on this particular boolit. Very encouraged with the early success.
I was impressed with Sage's .010" half hard 35 cal. al. checks when i tried them. They shoot just as good and actually go on tighter than the .014
al. checks that i make.

You may or may not have to do a bit of experimenting with different materials or thickness for best accuracy, but it's worth it once found.

Since your getting Pat's tool, i'd just start with what he reccomends for it for your cal. Lol i use one of Charlie's original hammer tools and love it because i can make checks anywhere i've got a hard surface. It's definitely slower than using a reloading press or an arbor press. Makes a perfect check though.

You'll like being able to make your own checks.

[Sagebrush7]

We at Sages use FCIII tools in pneumatic presses. I have one of Charlies early tools that has made close to a million checks. I did split a cutter from hammering out stuck checks. We now drill them out carefully with a small bit. James



I ordered 1000 copper gas checks from Sage Outdoors for 30 caliber to get me started on my cast 300AAC loads. Wow do they go on nice to my Lee C312-155-2R cast boolits using the Lee sizing die! I read somewhere that Sage uses Patmarlin's gas check makers and since this thread seems to make it sort of a toss up between the two primary manufacturers, I went with Patmarlin's for my maker. I don't think I will mind the two steps. I want tight fitting and most accurate shooting. I can't wait to see if home made copper gas checks can turn out as nice as the Sage are working.

[jmort]

"We at Sages use FCIII tools in pneumatic presses."


Good, because I have a lot of your checks.

[6622729]

We at Sages use FCIII tools in pneumatic presses. I have one of Charlies early tools that has made close to a million checks. I did split a cutter from hammering out stuck checks. We now drill them out carefully with a small bit. James

That can't be right?! I read on the Internet that you use PatMarlin's punches. You must be mistaken. lol. In any case, your copper gas checks for the 30 caliber are fitting my Lee 312-155 cast boolits perfectly! Very nice.

[Sagebrush7]

My presses would smash PM's check makers along with the press to scrap metal. Can't believe everthing you read on the internet! Vulcan makes copper checks,we at Sages make aluminum Plain Base checks by the zillions. Can't keep up! We also sell Gator checks. I'm going deer hunting next week ,shipping will be sloooooow!



UOTE=6622729;3472072]That can't be right?! I read on the Internet that you use PatMarlin's punches. You must be mistaken. lol. In any case, your copper gas checks for the 30 caliber are fitting my Lee 312-155 cast boolits perfectly! Very nice.[/QUOTE]

[GoodAlloy]

I have both Pats and Charlies tools. If you want to make a bunch of checks fast for standard gas check shank bullets then you want to go with Charlie tool in my opinion. However if you want to make checks for plain base boolits then you want Pat's tool. I have used Pat's tool to make a .014" aluminum checks and while it worked it was slower to use. Free checks can use a larger range of metal thickness then can Pats tool. I do believe that Pats tool creates a higher quality check due to cutting from the center of the aluminum strip while Charlie's tool cuts from the edge of the strip. Sometimes if you're not careful with Charlie's tool your check will not be perfect due to the metal strip not being inserted all the way into the cutter. I have had exact similar results with accuracy with either tool depending on the attention used while making checks.

[Retumbo]

Charlie's tool cuts from the edge of the strip Meh! Same thing can be said about Pats if you do not feed the material in far enough. Tools should not be blamed for operator error

[GoodAlloy]

That is true. Retumbo.
But what is said is still true. As far as how each tool works. I also stated that I have had comparable accuracy from checks out of either tool as long as user pays attention to process. Trying to definativley say one is better than the other would be same as saying one type of boolit design is better than another. It is all a matter of preference. Not grade of tool. Each one has its uses that outshines the other in one way or another.

[Retumbo]

Just pointing out that if you don't insert the material correctly in either one it will affect the quality of the check.