Did I mention I like the SMLE ?.....

[Jack Stanley]

For over a month now I've been trying to get my eyes to work with a number four mkII without a whole lot of what I would call good results . So I took the chickens way out and put it back in the safe and got out my old Lithgow number One .

It hasn't been a week yet and I'm finding it easier to see the front sight and I'm getting some pretty decent groups too . Most recent powder tryout is with 2400 again , since it works in the Russian zip gun so well I figure the SMLE should work well too . So far it's not letting me down but something odd I noticed that maybe someone can explain . I started with sixteen grains and went up one grain each group . At eighteen and twenty grains it shot tight little clusters but the other powder charges opened up the groups . I'm thinking it might be a vibration thing but I sure don't know , it just seems wierd .

Another good thing is while shooting these heavy bullets I've also been trying much lighter loads at lower velocity . I'l have to try them side by side but I may have a load with two different bullet weights and speeds that hits to the same point of aim [smilie=w: Did I mention I like the SMLE ? :mrgreen:

Jack

[curator]

Jack Stanley,

Have you visited with our resident .303 British Guru, Steve Regwell of www.303british.com? Steve has a web site that will give you excellent information on bedding and "tweaking" the SMLe and later Lee Enfield rifles to give their very best performance. He also has an excellent article on shooting cast boolits in the Lee Enfield rifles which does include the SMLE. There is also JeffinNZ and the .303guy both of whom offer excellent advise on this forum. Did I mention that I like the SMLE too?

[JeffinNZ]

JACK: What weight is the projectile? My No4 MkII is rather fond of 13.8gr of 2400 under a 205gr boolit for just shy of 1400fps.

[Dead Dog Jack]

+1 on Steve at 303British.com. I believe he used to be an armorer. Nevertheless, he's tested a lot of loads to produce his recipe book for the 303 - a book I've found invaluable.

[Jack Stanley]

I haven't been to the .303 site but I do pay attention when our down under compatriots here speak . My SMLE hasn't given me a minutes problem ever , the number four though .......... [smilie=1:it'll make ya say Grrrrr!

It he bullet I was trying to make work in the number four was two hundred and eight(ish) grains . Some of the problem I am sure is related to the sights and me losing the sharp focus of the front sight against the targets . Some of it though is that is doesn't want to throw heavy cast more than about thirteen hundred . I tried the Lee hundred sixteen grain bullet from nine to eleven grains of Unique and if I could see the sight it was accurate .

The SMLE rear sight blocks out the lower half of the glare from the targets so I get a sharper front sight picture . When changing things in the load I can see the difference in the group size . It seems odd the rifle I have likes an eighteen and twenty grain charge of 2400 . But it doesn't like a seventeen or nineteen grain charge .

One other thing I noticed is the HXP cases I'm using are the ones that I used an "O"-ring to fit them to the number four . I think the diameter of the chamber on that rifle was a bit larger than the number one and as a result would not fit the number one . I adjusted the full length Redding die to size them to just barely fit the number one . While using the 2400 I would get a little powder smudge on the ouside of the case , not bad but some was there . At the twenty grain charge there was no smudge left on the case at all . So what do I think ? Maybe I just fireformed the case for the SMLE and the next reload I'll use the bushing die for sizing . Is that a reasonable explaination for what I see ?

I sure like the SMLE :D

Jack

[JeffinNZ]

That's a good start using a heavier boolit. 314299 style projectiles do well as you will likely know and I attribute this to their length and ability to reach out and find some 'not yet eroded by Cordite' metal to cling to. Light boolits can do well too but for primo accuracy the 200gr + versions have worked for me.

[303Guy]

Interesting. To me that's a valuable bit of information - the 18 and 20gr results. It broadens the spectrum of questions.

I'm curious as to why the No.4 doesn't perform well. Could it be the boolit fir in the throat? How is the crown and muzzle end of the bore?

One day when I get myself reset up with my lathe I'd like to be able to make custom molds for folks to try out.

[Jack Stanley]

Perhaps the issue with the number four is the mold itself . With moderate hardness alloy this mold casts at .3125" or so on the body and .315" on the nose . The crown looks perfect and the nose of the bullet won't fit in the muzzle without a mallet . Since the barrel slugs at .312" that leaves me with thinking the throat might be just a tad large to fit this particular bullet . When chambering I never really "feel" it touching anything and no marks are left on the bullet . This same bullet and alloy I've run out of a 1903A3 at a chronographed 2300 FPS .

It will chamber ammo loaded with .314" diameter bullets , but it doesn't want to shoot my LBT bullet even though it has a much larger body and nose . The quircky beast will however shoot a Much lighter LEE group buy mold that weighs a hundred sixteen grains . That little bullet is gas checked and measures at .314" and works in just about anything .

As for this number four perhaps it's asking for a new mold . Me ? I'm not going to give it one unless I go with Higgens idea of fixing the peep sight . I'm not even sure I'm going to do that since the number one is so much easier to make work .


One of the manuals I have shows twenty-four grains of 2400 being the max for the British round and the heavy bullets . I think I'll try twenty-one and twenty-two grains and see what the groups do . As it stands with this SMLE I like the twenty grain load and may cronograph it before it gets real cold here . It definately should be shot more because it does show promise . Enough promise I may buy an Accurate mold for the SMLE that actually fits rather than sizing five thousanths off these LBT bullets .

Jack

[1Shirt]

With the exception of some of the French stuff, the SMLE is probably close to the top of the list as one of the uglyiest military firearms ever made. That said, next to the Garand, it is probably the most efficient battle weapons (for its day) that was ever made. No milsurp shooter is truely that without one, along with a springfield, a K-31, a Swede, and a Mosin. Love my ugly SMLE, as much as I love the others, even if I only shoot them each a couple of times a year.
1Shirt!

[bruce drake]

I'm a No. 4 Enfield addict myself, so understand you aren't alone. I've learned that my 314299 mold is my most accurate boolit for my various enfields as well.

Bruce

[303Guy]

Could one of you post some pictures of the 314299 castings? Thanks. The idea of a light (alloy saving) and accurate boolit appeals to me.

The ugliest SMLE I've seen a picture of was a shortened 'truck gun' someone made. He kept the battle dress but shorter - a lot shorter.

Something like this edited picture.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/SMLECarbine.jpg

Pretty cool.

[JeffinNZ]

That's a very rare "Tanker" SMLE. Worth thousands of dollars you know. LOL.

[Multigunner]

Could one of you post some pictures of the 314299 castings? Thanks. The idea of a light (alloy saving) and accurate boolit appeals to me.

The ugliest SMLE I've seen a picture of was a shortened 'truck gun' someone made. He kept the battle dress but shorter - a lot shorter.

Something like this edited picture.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/SMLECarbine.jpg

Pretty cool.

Theres apparently a few rifles like this that have a more legitimate origin. Some have shown up that were said to have been shortened for use by cadets at a military school.

Any you find on the open market are more likely to be home made or shortened by some gun dealer.

[Jack Stanley]

I had one of those shortened SMLE rifles about fifteen years ago . As I remember was one of the major importers had a batch of them done that was . Navy Arms comes to mind but I really don't remember who had them done . It did shoot really well and it looked like the job was well done .

Jack

[303Guy]

The guy who did the one I'm thinking of must have lost the bayonet attachment. I don't remember but I did think it looked ugly while my rendition looks cool.

[JeffinNZ]

I actually think it is pretty cool. I could see me doing one long term. In .303 Pygmy of course. Short rifle, short round....

[Doug Bowser]

Made a few of them for my shop a few years ago. The originals were made by the Aussies at Lithgow. I have read they were made as an experiment as a carbine to be used in Jungle Warfare. I made sure the rifles I converted were British made, so as not to be confused with the original. I made 6 of them and sold all of them at one gunshow in Jackson, MS. Navy/Gibbs Arms started converting them and I stopped my project. The rifles shown that I am holding are BSA No 1 MkIII* and the lower one was converted. Both of the rifles had heavily greased furniture. The converted rifle was treated with Dow Bathroom Cleaner and it took almost all the grease out of the wood. Spray Dow on the wood and keep it in the sun, wash with water and repeat until the wood is cleaned of grease. Here is another photo of a few of the Enfield rifles we had in our shop. Great Southern Arms of Tylertown, MS.

Doug

[Multigunner]

Ultra short LE or SMLE carbines go back as far as WW1.
Sappers and tunnelers used cutdown rifles, usually battlefield pickups beyond proper repair.
Some of these were cut down as short as the smoke discharger cutdown SMLE, near horse pistol size, while others were proper carbines made and tested by officers looking for an alternative to the too scarce handguns for those occasions when their men broke into a German tunnel and had to fight it out underground.
Almost all of those altered rifles ended up scrapped, with only a very few to be found in museum displays.

A cutdown No.4 was dug up on an old battle site (Holland) with a grenade lancher afixed to its shortened barrel. Possibly a expediant method of launching flares or smoke markers, possibly for launching (AT?) grenades. IIRC the battle had involved British Paratroopers

[motorcycle_dan]

Something like this edited picture.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/SMLECarbine.jpg


Man, that thing is so ugly it is cute. I gotta have one. A tanker's Smelly.
Yep, nice. If only machine work was as easy as photo shop.

[bruce drake]

measure twice and cut once. Take your time and you can do a good job if you have patience and see your projects through.

[Shooternz]

[QUOTE=303Guy;1875533]Could one of you post some pictures of the 314299 castings? Thanks. The idea of a light (alloy saving) and accurate boolit appeals to me.

Hi .303 Guy,
My mould is the 316299 from the group buy lead mix is 60% lead pipe 40% wheel weights boolits weight 215gr.
I don't have a .303 rifle I sell these on Trade Me, going by what my customers say they shoot very well.
Robert.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_6005507f44da30cc5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7081)

[shoe303]

Well, if you find a No. 5 "Jungle Carbine", you don't have to cut down a long rifle. Occasionally, the Century Enfield "Tankers" come up for sale too if you keep your eyes open.

[Jack Stanley]

The other day I got to fooling with my LBT bullets and found this old number one will chamber the bullets that I had made for the long gone .318" groove rifle I had . Actually they seem to shoot a touch better than sizing them to .315" or so . Perhaps I can stave off the purchase of yet another mold by working with this one a little .

Egad !!!:shock:I must be retired now , five years ago I would have just spent the money and got a new mold !

Jack

[303Guy]

Hi .303 Guy,
My mould is the 316299 from the group buy lead mix is 60% lead pipe 40% wheel weights boolits weight 215gr.
I don't have a .303 rifle I sell these on Trade Me, going by what my customers say they shoot very well.
Robert.Thank you. Those look pretty good. Maybe I should buy some from you and try them in my rifle (one of them). What do I look you up under on Trade Me? (I don't have time to cast at the moment8-)).

[Canuck Bob]

When I was a lad everyone had a 303, sporterized, bubbaed, as issued, they were everywhere and just not cool.

Today I'm better educated and too old to ever qualify for cool again. My children have assured me of that.

I finaaly acquired a No.5 in nearly as issued and couldn't be happier. It is my only bolt action as I generally prefer the lever on the bottom.

[quasi]

shortened No. 1 SMLE's are called Tundra Carbines in Western Canada. I think they are more attractive than a No. 5 Jungle Carbine, but the sights on the No. 5 are much better.

[Jack Stanley]

I had a short time of pleasant weather so I could setup my chronograph the other day . With these .318" bullets lubed with LBT blue and nineteen point seven grains of 2400 they averaged 1770 feet per second .

I'm getting ready to go off the reservation now .... I lubed the same style bullet with 50/50 Alox . I wonder how far off that will be ... it'll probably be safe don't you think ?

Jack

[I'll Make Mine]

The biggest difference between grease in the grooves and LLA or derivatives (tumble lubed, I presume) is the LLA is likely to leave more fouling and or lead your barrel worse than the greased grooves. If your after shooting condition is acceptable, it shouldn't make any significant difference otherwise.

[Jack Stanley]

No , as I remember this is some old GAR Alox I have . If I was going to use a push through sizer to seat gas checks I'll use liquid Alox to help it's passing through the die . Then I'd lube regular groove with something more substantial . For this batch of bullets they cast at .320" or so and the RCBS sizer die leaves them at .318" .


Hey ! here's a question out of the blue . When using Hornady thirty caliber gas checks , how large have you sized them onto thirty-one caliber bullets ? Thanks guys .

Jack