Big meplat, hollow point, softpoint, or build bullet to tumble?

[Any Cal.]

All four are ways of increasing terminal performance in a bullet. Are certain mechanisms better in certain situations or speeds? Does it matter which one a bullet has, as long as it does something?

I was thinking about how a person could make a pistol bullet have the most terminal effect on a coyote. How would you do it, and why? How at 1000 fps? How at 1500 fps? What if the same bullet would be used for elk hunting?(yeah, I know, just play along, ok.:-) )

[Wayne Smith]

We generally stick pretty close to reality on this board. Specualation is there to push real research, not to exercise the imagination.

[btroj]

I like the big meplat. It works pretty well at any velocity.

A hollowpoint isn't bad but is trickier to make work. The velocity of impact must be match to the alloy or the HP either doesn't open at all or the petals fracture and blow the nose off your bullet.

The idea of tumbling is something I won't ever accept. I want straight line penetration. A bullet tha tumbles can go in any direction and may actually cause non fatal wounds as the bullet is diverted away from vital areas.

Give me a decent sized flat nose and I am happy.

[Harter66]

Meplat , suitable alloy, those are my choices.

I think maybe this is the "I want to buy a do-all mould" question.

Even w/a large meplat a hard boolit will pencil through a coyote, a very hard 1 will blow up , even at 30-30 speeds.a softer 1 will expand some and stay together even if you punch an elk/moose shoulder.

Of course having a cartridge or calibre to work from will result in better answers.

The big game weapon regs in Nv will allow a 223 w/55gr hot loaded "x" bullet for elk but a deference loaded 350gr Remington 45-70 out of a Marlin ported 18.5in Guide Gun isn't. As reference in the world of black and white only. Also the 25cal Win Mag based on a necked 357 case(256 win ?) also makes the cut but the 45 Win mag( acp's magnum) and the 10mm don't.

[Blammer]

Hollow points and velocity.

BIG HP and HIGH velocity for varmints, like coyotes.

Small HP's and Med velocity for big game.

[dragon813gt]

I will assume that we're talking strictly cast. Because I want the exact opposite for jacketed. I want a bullet with a big meplat that is heavy for caliber. Not much can go wrong and you have a wider alloy selection. Meaning you really don't have to alloy anything in with lead to make it work.


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[Larry Gibson]

Hollow points and velocity.

BIG HP and HIGH velocity for varmints, like coyotes.

Small HP's and Med velocity for big game.

+1.

Additionally I use GC'd cast bullets cast of soft alloy for such. Softer alloy than is useable with PB'd cast at velocities mentioned.

Larry Gibson

[mpmarty]

I don't worry about expansion as all my boolits start out big enough for the job. Anything less is wishful thinking and can get you hurt.

[**oneshot**]

soft- medium soft boolit with a big meplat.

[MT Chambers]

I agree with most on here, soft alloy and hollowpoints for anything up to deer, big flatpoint for larger game, usually GC and slightly harder for higher speeds, but nothing over say 18bhn, you don't want the bullet to shatter on hard bone. If you want to up the speed a bit with your soft hollowpoints, use a GC design, but I see nothing good about hard hollowpoints.

[runfiverun]

a flat nosed boolit through the shoulders will put a yote down right there.
and then the same boolit/load will work on a deer.
and then on an elk.
and a bunny's head.

[fredj338]

If I had to settle on one lead bulelt design for everything, it would be a cup point. Shallow HP expand well @ higher vel & cast them soft enough, do fine @ 1000fps too. Designing a bullet to intentionally tumble on impact is going to give very poor results on anything larger than say jackrabbits.

[waksupi]

a flat nosed boolit through the shoulders will put a yote down right there.
and then the same boolit/load will work on a deer.
and then on an elk.
and a bunny's head.

What he said.

[williamwaco]

BLAMMER +1

Consider this:

When moving up from .357 to .44 or .45, the bullet is already "expanded" when it leaves the muzzle.

[kir_kenix]

Big meplat is probably the easiest and most effective killer out there for cast. HP's require alot more work (correct alloy, velocity, etc). A wide, shallow (dished) hp with a properly alloyed boolit can be effective at both ends of the velocity spectrum.

Tubling bullets do have a place. In my mind this is with FMJ ammo (that is shot from a very fast twist rifle). This "overstabalization" has been studied extensively by governments around the world. I believe in it, and think I have seen it in action on several occasions. However, I do not think it is relevent in the varmint hunting world.

For my money, you just can't beat a large for caliber boolit with a massive meplat for killing power on medium to small game.

[Bigslug]

The problem with hollowpoints is that you have to tailor them for the intended species. A duty load tailored to keep the FBI happy will hit the felon, expand to about 1.5X starting diameter within about the first 3-4" of penetration, and be stopped by the elastic skin or clothing on the far side of the felon. This is cool in that it gives you a maximum depth, maximum width wound channel for the critter in question. The down side is if your critter changes, you might not have adequate penetration.

A heavy-for-caliber bullet with a large, flat nose will give up some expansion, but really, you're only loosing a couple tenths of an inch in diameter. the good news is that it's a lot more certain to make it deep enough to strike vitals if the size of the animal increases.

The way I look at it - if I'm ONLY hunting coyotes, I want a bullet with a deep hollowpoint cavity that stands a decent chance of flying apart on impact, but if I need my bullet to multitask (and since there's only so many hours available to cast these things, I most definitely do), I would feel far more comfortable shooting coyotes with an elk bullet than the other way around.

[stubshaft]

BIG meplat!

[gray wolf]

a flat nosed boolit through the shoulders will put a yote down right there.
and then the same boolit/load will work on a deer.
and then on an elk.
and a bunny's head.
I have to agree with the above,

[GLynn41]

Hps are fun and are not a problem to make -- I like them for deerish game- but one boolit for anything LFNGC or LWnGC-- wounds about the same//// hps are more violent at least at first in testing and shots on deer---on angle shots I tend to find the HP in the hips after chest to ham travel-- the solids - will normaly exit-- on a normal semi or broadside shot the hps are great and will always exit-
no to the tumble --Military uses the tumble Idea (less now it seems) to increase wounding with the . 5.56 -- same with the russian AK74 the poisin boolit -- I want to reliablely kill period // when I hunt

[RobS]

I like the big meplat. It works pretty well at any velocity.

A hollowpoint isn't bad but is trickier to make work. The velocity of impact must be match to the alloy or the HP either doesn't open at all or the petals fracture and blow the nose off your bullet.

The idea of tumbling is something I won't ever accept. I want straight line penetration. A bullet tha tumbles can go in any direction and may actually cause non fatal wounds as the bullet is diverted away from vital areas.

Give me a decent sized flat nose and I am happy.


I tend to run this route for a majority of my cast boolit needs.

[Any Cal.]

I was thinking that a design that tumbled only once could be a good thing, as the full diameter base would be in front, like a wadcutter. I shot a bunch of TCs into water, and they were almost all found base forward, though I don't know how many times they turned.

I am kind of thinking the softer big meplat is about as good as it will get, like has been said. Was just hoping there was a trick that was so common no one thought to mention in regards to bullet design...:-)

[44man]

It depends on the caliber and velocity. Seems as if when you go too fast or slow you need to work with alloy more and they should have some expansion even with a large meplat.
I use hard WLN and WFN and the .44, .475 and .500 JRH have the perfect velocity. When I used a faster gun (1630 fps) I never seen a hard WFN go through a deer so fast. I lost a couple and those I found went 200+ yards with almost no blood sign for a good 100 yards. I had to use a softer boolit. I suppose the hard WFN would work that fast on very large animals but I have no way to see. Deer are too small.
The three calibers I showed do massive internal damage with hard boolits.
I was deer hunting with the .44 using the 320 gr LBT at 1316 fps when a fox ran past. I hit it at 20 yards and never seen one drop so fast, like it was slammed with a sledge. I swear smoke was coming off it! :lol:
The reason I went to the heavy cast was when I started deer hunting with the 44 I used the 240 XTP. It killed fine and I seen the 3 I hit go down in 60 yards but I recovered all 3 bullets against the rib cage and there was no blood at all back to where I hit them. They opened too fast. The 300 XTP would work. The heavy WLN or WFN has never let me down. Nothing will stop them!
Just soften if you shoot too fast, like from the .454, etc.
I missed a deer a few seasons back with the .475. It was moving and as I led it I seen brush just as it went off, it was dim out. Turns out I shot through a 10" osage orange tree and the boolit is still going. ;) That boolit has gone through 16" of seasoned oak yet it will blow up everything in a deer.
The revolver is hard to understand. Use the wrong boolit for the velocity and it can fail or you can blow up half a deer and lose a ton of meat.
I don't think a yote would notice!

[Gibson]

What he said.

What he said, he said.

[John in WI]

The idea of tumbling is something I won't ever accept. .

I'm with you--the idea of a tumbling projectile is one of the ways the world's militaries have enhanced the effectiveness of FMJ assault rifle ammunition, without going against the Geneva Convention (banning expanding ammo or exposed lead).

The famous "poison bullet" 5.45mm AK rounds are a great example of this. I guess the trick was to make the bullets barely ballistically stable in flight, so they up-end immediately on impact. They "yaw" sharply, tear a very long and unpredictable wound.

How that's more "humane" than having a mushrooming or soft point, I have absolutely no idea. I wouldn't dream of relying on that for taking down game quick and clean.

[felix]

I really don't know about these tumbling boolits/condoms, but I have witnessed conversations about them in practice. Folks who hunt up close say they prefer the slower twist for a more positive knock-down on a bad shot. This is germane when comparing the 12 twist 30 with the 16 twist 32 in dense woods. There is one person on this board who is/was/did make/ing a 20-22 twist 35 for 150-200 grainers, but I have not heard of any accuracy/killing results as of yet. These comparisons being discussed are in 1800-2100 fps range, with 2400 in the 35. My experience, for real, has been that velocity should NOT be taken into account when discussing twist requirements because the stability effect of velocity increase is about zero between 1500 and 2400 fps. ... felix

[white eagle]

felons are not all built the same and do not all deserve a boolit
for me make mine a small hp not deep maybe about 1/3 the depth of the nose
then if it fail I still have some boolit left to proceed to work

[MikeS]

How that's more "humane" than having a mushrooming or soft point, I have absolutely no idea. I wouldn't dream of relying on that for taking down game quick and clean.

It isn't more humane. It's basically governments attempts to go around that part of the conventions of war without actually breaking them. The whole idea of using full metal jacketed bullets was that the bullet should go completely thru the person being shot. Then that person is supposed to know enough to fall down and stop fighting, so the medics can get them, take them to an aide station, and patch them up. The tumbling bullet basically tears up their insides to the point where many of them can't be patched up, and if forces them to die. It's that same logic that makes it inhumane to shoot game with full metal jacketed bullets, as game doesn't have the sense to stop, there isn't any medics to come patch them up, so their instincts tell them to run, so they end up dying a slow painful death.

[44man]

It isn't more humane. It's basically governments attempts to go around that part of the conventions of war without actually breaking them. The whole idea of using full metal jacketed bullets was that the bullet should go completely thru the person being shot. Then that person is supposed to know enough to fall down and stop fighting, so the medics can get them, take them to an aide station, and patch them up. The tumbling bullet basically tears up their insides to the point where many of them can't be patched up, and if forces them to die. It's that same logic that makes it inhumane to shoot game with full metal jacketed bullets, as game doesn't have the sense to stop, there isn't any medics to come patch them up, so their instincts tell them to run, so they end up dying a slow painful death.
This is the true reason.
Another way around the rules is to use a larger gun like the .50 BMG or .338 Lapua.

[turbo1889]

This is the true reason.
Another way around the rules is to use a larger gun like the .50 BMG or .338 Lapua.

And still another way around the rule is to use a WFN or WFTRN shaped FMJ bullet. Such is popularly used in handguns carried by licensed VIP protection professionals in NYC where their license limits them to FMJ only and is a direct "cut and paste" from the international rules of war.

In similar fashion a lot of current 9mm NATO ammo is no longer the conventional round nose shaped FMJ bullet but rather uses a TC shaped FMJ bullet with a wide flat on its nose to increase its stopping power.

[44man]

And still another way around the rule is to use a WFN or WFTRN shaped FMJ bullet. Such is popularly used in handguns carried by licensed VIP protection professionals in NYC where their license limits them to FMJ only and is a direct "cut and paste" from the international rules of war.

In similar fashion a lot of current 9mm NATO ammo is no longer the conventional round nose shaped FMJ bullet but rather uses a TC shaped FMJ bullet with a wide flat on its nose to increase its stopping power.
Good for them. To lose one single soldier or LEO from poor choices is one too much.

[41mag]

There is a great base of knowledge which has already posted up along this thread, most of whom I have contacted or had input from as I have been working on my own boolits over the past year and a half. I have not found anything to go against their input.

That said, my chances of hunting an elk are pretty slim unless someone's high fenced critters break out around one of the areas I hunt. However I DO have the chance of coming up against up to 400# or so feral hogs which have proven over the past dozen or so years to be about as tough a critter as I have ever hunted.

I generally always carry a side arm while in the country doing work on the farm or my friend places. We both shoot the hogs every chance we get. As such when I started to cast my first boolits I went with the WFN design as I had read so much on how well it penetrated and stopped most game. My initial jaunt was with the Lee C452300RF for my 454, which has done everything mentioned above. It has blown right on through a feral hog at 80+yds and rolled a white tail at 30. As for any expansion incurred along the way I could not say as they kept right on going.

As of late I have been working on some HP's for my lesser powered revolvers. My intentions are to have a load that will stop and set a big hog back on it's heals in an up close and personal situation. Since we hunt them in stuff thick enough to choke a chain saw, when they break out of a hole they could be within a couple feet before they decide to do so. When they go they don't always decide to run away and in a LOT of cases they are coming right at you. If you have never been hit by a 150 - 200 pound hog in a full run, you have no idea how much power they have in such a compact package. It's like being hit by a small car.

My goal is to work up a blend that will give me solid repeatable expansion to a point using 41,44, and 45 caliber small HP Keith bullets. My velocity goals are from mid 1000 - 1250fps. In reality the added benefit of super penetration isn't needed in these type situations, but outright stopping power is. I would MUCH rather destroy 10# of meat and knock one on it's rear than to drive a 3/4" hole right through them. IF I can get the alloy to allow expansion back to the bottoms of the HP cavity and hold there, I firmly believe they will do all I need them to. If they don't open as far even better I will still be making a big hole for a goodly amount of energy transfer. Using 230 - 270'ish grain bullets, this should be something I can use with confidence. Like mentioned above, they are already starting with a hole above 40 cal so anything else is a bonus.

Also since at times I DO stretch a few rounds out across a pasture, I also want something that will hold it's accuracy. In the tons of reading I have done, it seems that some types of boolits do and some don't. The WFN seems to get mixed reviews out at 100yds or further, where the Keith seems to do better due to the profile. Since I am not driving these loads to full magnum velocities I feel that the Keith will suit my purpose better and even at the extended ranges I should still get decent penetration even if no or little expansion occurs. Course I might be thinking with the wrong end here but that is what I have garnered from my research.

I am however all ears for input on this as well.

[44man]

41mag, Open too fast and you will not stop the large pig. You need just the proper expansion with velocity. Too fast and hard is also not best.
The WFN question bothers me because I do not find accuracy loss with them. I shoot them to 500 meters (547 yards) with super accuracy. Most of my boolits have 80% to 82% meplats.
It is a match with velocity, twist and boolit length. You can not shoot a heavy WFN at 800 to 1000 fps if it needs 1350 fps.
The Keith is the least accurate.
I don't think you need a hollow point in the calibers you use unless you are shooting slow, then yes, go ahead.
It is a balance. It comes with experience in the field to allow you to alter things. A big pig is tough and if you open a boolit fast it will fail. Yet from what I have seen they are like people, hurt them bad and they go down when a deer will go and go.
I feel you think about energy and think dump will stop an animal but it does not work that way. Full penetration can do more internal damage with balance then a fast expanding boolit. Energy dump is a myth. The boolit is absorbing the energy, not the animal.

[41mag]

44man,

I probably had the RFN and SWC thing backwards in my head. I think I have mentioned to you before about how I get info overload at times. Well I have been studying a bit hard again. ;-)

I would also like to restate the reasoning behind what I am looking to accomplish. I followed your reasoning with the WFN and the 454 and it works like a charm. With the smaller calibers however I am not pushing them much if any over 1200fps. If I get much above that a quick follow up is hard to do with the action being fast and right in front of you, or me. When we bust a hog or several out of the brush the ranges can literally be measure in inches to feet at times, and more than once they have held tight until the very last second they could stand the pressure. Once they come or go, they do so at full throttle and it gets VERY exciting VERY fast. Think of a covey of 80 - 200 pound quail flushing at your feet. (getting an image yet?) The quail move a little bit of grass and make a lot of noise. The hogs move small trees and make a ton of noise. LOL

The alloy thing is something I am working on and hopefully combined with the different sized HP pins one gets with the MP molds, I will be able to work out something which gives me both penetration and expansion. Since the 454 is a bit hard to weild and control up in the stuff we will be working through, the Redhawks in 41,44, and 45 Colt will be my tools of choice. IF and as you see that is a big IF, they break out into the open or I have a chance at a shot out to 100yds or so I also want to know they will be accurate enough to at least put the smack on one hard enough to slow it down or put it on the ground long enough to get up close and follow up quickly. With my 41, for years and years I only used the 200gr Rem SJHP over 20.5grs of 296 and it worked wonders beyond what I ever believed it would. Very seldom did I ever find only one hole, or when hit did the hog fail to go down. These were only started out at 1350fps.

I, like you feel there is only one way to test them out for sure, and that is what I am looking forward to in a few weeks. I am hopeful that the hogs will cooperate as we have left them alone all summer long. They have had plenty of time to repopulate the brush surrounding the gravel pit on my friends property, as well as the brush lined ditches on both of our places. Once the shooting starts however all bets are off. We're simply waiting on the cotton farmer to pick his crop and cut the stalks so when they make for the open we have them there as well. Then the fun starts.....:bigsmyl2:

As for them being tough, I will not argue that point one bit. I have on more than one occasion shot hogs which had already been shot before and were in the process of healing or were missing half or more of a leg. When shot I couldn't tell there was anything wrong with them as they were getting along just fine. I have had big boars so close to getting me it wasn't even smirk worthy, much less funny. It is not a good feeling at all when you put a good shot on one only to have to growl and want to share the pain. I have also been run smooth over by them, whether intentionally or simply, I was standing exactly where they wanted to run, and that wasn't something you just get right over either. We also have folks out with dogs, and then for sure we don't want over penetration, we want smack down pure and simple. Most of those are shot within inches of the barrel in amongst a half dozen barking and biting dogs. I'm not so much into that anymore as I once was, and would MUCH rather sit back and watch the other folks do the dirty work. My knees simply can't handle the abuse like they once did two surgeries back, and all it takes is one hog with the right attitude and you will tote off a whoopin for sure.

[palmettosunshine]

Ok, I'll ask the obvious (at least to me) question. Why not a full WC? If we're shooting at really short range there shouldn't be any worries about stabilization or accuracy. What am I missing here? I'm asking for my own knowledge as I've been contemplating working up a full WC design for .38/.357. Thanks and hope I'm not asking a question that everyone else already knows the answer to.

[Blammer]

44 mag full wad cutters are only accurate to about 75 yds. At least that's my experience with my RSRH 44mag.

[turbo1889]

A true full wad-cutter (100% totally flat meplat) is difficult to get to release from the mold and does not load into a revolvers chamber as quickly or as easily especially with a speed loader and few if any auto-loaders can feed them.

I do agree though that within reasonable ranges a nearly full wad-cutter with just a little bit of taper around the very edge of the nose to make loading easier for wheel guns an feeding possible in a select few auto-loaders and about 3-degrees of taper on the flat or a button nose to ease mold release can be a highly effective load for terminal ballistics.

This is what I am using for maximum knock down effect right now:

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4151/5066836222_5cc846df9d_z.jpg


Makes even the 38-spl. pack a wallop for stopping power although obviously it is even better in the 357-mag. and the 357-max.

[1Shirt]

That's a mean looking projectile!!!! For me want big wide flat meplat, about med hard (say 15-18 bh), and if it is HP'd, so much the better, but not really necessary.
1Shirt!

[44man]

Ok, I'll ask the obvious (at least to me) question. Why not a full WC? If we're shooting at really short range there shouldn't be any worries about stabilization or accuracy. What am I missing here? I'm asking for my own knowledge as I've been contemplating working up a full WC design for .38/.357. Thanks and hope I'm not asking a question that everyone else already knows the answer to.
The problem is a straight wad cutter does not align at the forcing cone unless the revolver is PERFECT. At close range it will indeed work but I have not found any difference in killing affect between a WLN and WFN. Both work.
I only shoot mostly deer and only alloy changes to velocity is what makes a difference. The heavy .45 Colt boolit at 1160fps is actually better then the same weight in the 45-70 at 1630 fps. The 45-70 MUST be softened.
My theory is a hard flat nose shot too fast has a large pressure wave off the nose that moves tissue out of the way in a secondary wound channel that will collapse after boolit passage. The primary will be smaller so by softening the boolit and slowing it with a larger expanded nose, it will do more damage. The right balance is penetration with internal damage.
Killing so many deer has me at the velocity range of 1300 to 1400 fps with hard boolits. The pressure wave is not too great and allows more tissue to be disrupted. It is funny that a slower, heavy hard boolit is better then one too fast and that a fast boolit needs more expansion. Go below 1100 fps and then get some expansion again.
Over expansion is no good either as a boolit might not break bone or go deep enough.
I understand you do not want to harm a dog but you need to stop a pig quick. It is not easy. From what I have seen, if you keep a good boolit inside the pig at the far side or if it just falls out the other side, it is good, the pig will be done. But dogs will find it if it runs off. Just don't blow a boolit in a few inches or stop it on the shield or a bone.
Shoot a huge buff, what would you want, a 180 gr hollow point or a 320 gr LBT? You must find what works.

[jmort]

Like many others, for me it's all about the meplat. Wad cutters or WLN/WFN. Even a SWC. I tend to like the .45 Colt so, as noted above, it's "pre-expanded" - 11.5MM. Even a .38 special 148 grain wad cutter, around 15 bhn, with maximum meplat, will easily go though two feet of ballistic gelatin at 800 fps. With the wad cutter you get low recoil, inherent accuracy and fantastic straight-line penetration. As noted above, you really don't need to push the velocity and has been noted pushing the velocity can be counter productive. Non-expanding, large meplat and two holes, in and out.

[MBTcustom]

A tumbling boolit is best, but its hard to find one that is consistant, and when you do, they are not usually as accurate.
A large, accurate, flat nose is the most strait forward answer. Lots of options that work just great, and they can be scary accurate.
Soft nosed FPs are good if you want to shoot at high velocity and give them a love-tap with Thor's hammer. Definitely the most effective option, next to the tumbling boolit.
HP boolits look cool, but unless you are shooting two legged threats, I feel they are too fragile for hunting with JMHO.

[Blammer]

My full wadcutter.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7432.jpg

[jmort]

^ That is a beautiful thing, max meplat.

[40Super]

Has anyone experimented with something like a near full wadcutter,or 85% -90% meplat but with a generous boatail,to POSSIBLY aid in down range accuracy? lubing would be a pain but maybe the boatail would help some designs.
Just had a brain spasm and that spit out:veryconfu

[turbo1889]

Has anyone experimented with something like a near full wadcutter,or 85% -90% meplat but with a generous boatail,to POSSIBLY aid in down range accuracy? lubing would be a pain but maybe the boatail would help some designs.
Just had a brain spasm and that spit out:veryconfu

Try loading a TC backwards and see what happens.

[Oreo]

Try loading a TC backwards and see what happens.

I was thinking the same thing BUT be aware that case capacity will be significantly reduced by the nose of the bullet being in the case. This means any load data for that bullet fired nose forward is totally unusable.

[turbo1889]

I was thinking the same thing BUT be aware that case capacity will be significantly reduced by the nose of the bullet being in the case. This means any load data for that bullet fired nose forward is totally unusable.

*Emphasis Added

Yes, and No.

Hot 38spl. +P load data in a 357mag. case.
Hot 44spl. +P load data in a 44mag. case.
Etc . . .

Those sort of combinations should work for a TC or SWC or similar loaded backwards.

[Gibson]

My full wadcutter.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7432.jpg


Nice!

[UBER7MM]

Blammer,

I bet those will stop.. yrr...
just about anything.....

Good shooting,

[Any Cal.]

The idea of full wadcutters is good, but the bits I have read claims they will tend to tumble. No real experience of my own, but since the center of gravity would be dead center, it stands to reason there would be no side that would naturally stay forward. Thoughts or info? Could boolit length change that?

[41mag]

My full wadcutter.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7432.jpg

WHUUUFF, that thing just has NASTY written all over it

I LIKE it.....

[Fenring]

All four are ways of increasing terminal performance in a bullet. Are certain mechanisms better in certain situations or speeds? Does it matter which one a bullet has, as long as it does something?

I was thinking about how a person could make a pistol bullet have the most terminal effect on a coyote. How would you do it, and why? How at 1000 fps? How at 1500 fps? What if the same bullet would be used for elk hunting?(yeah, I know, just play along, ok.:-) )

On an animal of coyote size you won't need tons of penetration - I'm going with a large bore HP like a .44 cast of a brittle alloy like say water dropped WW's so that you get a shattering effect, secondary projectiles and maximum tissue damage and energy dump.

Elk - same boolit isn't ideal and I'd want a heavy and hard, wide meplat.

[Blammer]

The above 44cal Full Wadcutters only retain accuracy out to about 75 yds, after that, you'll be lucky to hit the barn. But from 75yds and closer! WATCH OUT!

[youngda9]

Blammer...what mold model makes those boolits? Those would be great SD rounds out of my 696 if they are of the right weight.

[44man]

The above 44cal Full Wadcutters only retain accuracy out to about 75 yds, after that, you'll be lucky to hit the barn. But from 75yds and closer! WATCH OUT!
NAW, I bet they shoot farther as long as they don't need to pull a cylinder. There is the problem. You can rub an edge.
It has been a crazy journey with WFN boolits that many say will not shoot far. I have a hard time thinking it is the nose shape, just a straight start.
No nose damage, perfect alignment and a match to the twist. Now we know nose damage is not as important as base damage but a crooked start throws a boolit out of balance. Can a wad cutter start straight? Maybe, if you make it as hard as a boolit on ******.
That is what I found with a Keith. As I went harder, accuracy increased by 2/3's when I got to 28 and 30 BHN.
It would be fun to experiment with a full wad cutter but I am not going to make a mold because a WLN or WFN in the .44 will do anything.
Blammer, how about some testing with harder and harder lead? My worry is you still have a Keith shoulder that is not needed. Take the nose to throat size.