Cleaning Out Leading in Barrels

[eagle-man]

So, being new to casting, I have been using mostly straight lead for my boolits. I have probably run 3 - 5k rounds thru since I started casting. Well, the lead has been building up faster that I have been able to get it out of the barrel. I had scrubbed the barrel over and over, and was probably just polishing the lead in the barrel to a shinny finish.

I picked up some Safariland #10 and followed the directions. It seemed to loosen the lead up a little, but not like I hoped. after letting barrels soak overnight for three separate nights, I was able to get almost all of the lead out. Not sure if my leading was super bad, or if the Safariland #10 wasn't up to the task.

I am wondering what people use to take care of bad leading problems. I have heard that Ballistol is really good. Has anyone used this for bad leading? What else has worked?

I recently mined a bunch of lead from our range, and one of the awesome guys from the range there pointed me to Rotometals Superhard, which has done wonders. I went into the range for an hour and a half before work, and shot a couple of different boolits from different SuperHard alloys, and it worked wonders!

[cummins05]

Sounds to me like you need to figure out why u are getting leading that's the first problem and I think don't quote me others will chime in though but shooting a jacketed bullet will clean a lot of the lead out. Seems like u are shooting undersized boolits or maybe a pore choice of lubes or maybe u are trying to shoot your pure lead boolits too fast since they are going to be pretty soft being pure lead just a few things I have learned from this site

[eagle-man]

I was using almost straight lead. Once I added in some superhard from rotometals and some tin, my problems went away.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have found that a very VERY tight fit patch forces a lot of the lead out. Be careful if you use this method, you could get your cleaning rod stuck in the barrel. I have also been considering buying some tight mesh brass screen and making my own version of the Lewis Lead remover. Haven't had a lot of luck with the Chore Boy pads.

BTW, I was shooting dead soft through a 44 at low velocities.

Leaded up pretty bad. :violin: The violin is for me and the time it took to clean.

[I'll Make Mine]

Shooting a jacketed bullet will not remove lead -- and if the leading is bad, could lead to dangerous pressure levels (especially if it's in a factory round). The most effective method of removing lead, from my reading, is to wrap a little 0000 steel wool over a bronze bore brush and use that to scrub, renewing the steel wool as necessary. Can still take a while if the leading is bad, but won't hurt the bore (steel wool is softer than modern barrel steels).

Prevention is the best cure -- better boolit fit (size .001 to .002 over groove size -- slug the barrel to get groove size) is the most important thing, followed by using the right alloy.

[canyon-ghost]

I've found that mineral spirits paint thinner (from the hardware store) loosens most lubes. In the extreme, acetone will dissolve carnuba. If you have ironed in lead caught by copper, start with Hoppe's #9 and a bronze brush.

Bronze brushes are your workhorses, nylon brushes are everyday brushes for lead. I found out most of my leading problems were caused by mixing jacketed and lead, after dissolving all the copper fouling, the leading stopped.

Could be, Good Luck,
Ron

[Wally]

I have found that a very VERY tight fit patch forces a lot of the lead out. Be careful if you use this method, you could get your cleaning rod stuck in the barrel. I have also been considering buying some tight mesh brass screen and making my own version of the Lewis Lead remover. Haven't had a lot of luck with the Chore Boy pads.

BTW, I was shooting dead soft through a 44 at low velocities.

Leaded up pretty bad. :violin: The violin is for me and the time it took to clean.

Used to have pistols that leaded up on me---I was not using bullets sized to the properly (IOW they were too small). To clean out the lead quickly I used a brass Jag tip with a cloth patch and an 1" square piece of aluminum fly screen. Much faster than a Lewis lead remover and no--the aluminum didn't scratch up and ruin my barrels....many (including me) now use aluminum gas checks. The brass screen you mentioned would also work... but it is not easy to find and it is not cheap.

[dragonrider]

I use an "Outers Foul Out II" for removng lead when I need to. It is very easy to use and it gets all the lead or copper out.

[Tazman1602]

Easiest thing in the world to remove. Get some chore-boy brand bronze wool cleaning pads at the store of your choice, peel a couple of strands off and wrap them around your cleaning brush and lead-b-gone. Forum members and a mold maker taught me that one.

......next thing to do is to find out WHY you're leading up to begin with. Only time I run into that is if my bullets are sized too small....

Art

[Sasquatch-1]

Used to have pistols that leaded up on me---I was not using bullets sized to the properly (IOW they were too small). To clean out the lead quickly I used a brass Jag tip with a cloth patch and an 1" square piece of aluminum fly screen. Much faster than a Lewis lead remover and no--the aluminum didn't scratch up and ruin my barrels....many (including me) now use aluminum gas checks. The brass screen you mentioned would also work... but it is not easy to find and it is not cheap.

The reason I lead up my barrel is because I have been using dead soft lead in a competition I go to. Tried the ChoreBoy trick with out any luck. Like I said earlier, I find a tight fitting patch will push a lot of the lead out.

Now you KNOW someone is going to say something about using aluminum in your barrel. :bigsmyl2:

[Wally]

The reason I lead up my barrel is because I have been using dead soft lead in a competition I go to. Tried the ChoreBoy trick with out any luck. Like I said earlier, I find a tight fitting patch will push a lot of the lead out.

Now you KNOW someone is going to say something about using aluminum in your barrel. :bigsmyl2:

The Chore Boy works if the leading is minor---the aluminum screen patch works very well.... Have been using it for 35 years---my barrels have yet to be ruined yet.

[13Echo]

Too soft an alloy can cause leading but you don't need a superhard alloy to stop leading if your bullet is the correct size for the barrel. By far the most common cause of bad leading is a bullet that is too small or that doesn't "bump up" to fill the grooves. Once there is high pressure gas blowby the bullet there will be gas cutting of the lead and deposits of lead in the barrel. Keith routinely used a "hard cast" bullet of only 16:1 or 10:1 lead to tin without a gas check in his heavy pistol loads. This isn't much harder that wheel weight metal if at all and he did not suffer from leading. The secret was correctly sized and lubed bullets. Look up Glen Fryxel's articles at this address:

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

Jerry Liles

[cdet69]

Anyone ever try aluminum screen to get lead out. The same type used in windows. Seems it would be easier to get.

[Casting Timmy]

I tend to let Ed's red or your favorite cleaner soak in it for a while. I have heard some using hydrogen-peroxide though. In revolver cylingers put the brush in a drill and spin it in the cylinder.

Mainly I just use soaking and brushing to get thru it.

[Houndog]

Wrap 0000 steel wool around a brass brush and use a GOOD solvent! Mickey Coleman (Benchrest gunsmith) showed me this trick many years ago. I've even used it in Stainless steel match barrels to clean out molly fouling with NO ill effects what so ever, and yes I have a borescope to REALLY see what the inside of a barrel looks like.

[colonelhogan44]

Mercury. If you can find some.

[drcook]

Pure gum turpentine (not synthetic) and tight fitting patches will lift out lead. That is what I use to clean my BPCR rifles. Lowes carries it. Plus it is not dangerous to you or your firearm.

I have seen people tap a very tight patch through the bore. I have seen folks with brass cleaning rods that are thick enough pound them through by tapping against the ground to removed stubborn lead.

[doctorggg]

I have mail ordered bronze wool from Home Depot. Wrapped around a bore brush with a good solvent works wonders. To me it is easier to use than chore boy.

[Wally]

Pure gum turpentine (not synthetic) and tight fitting patches will lift out lead. That is what I use to clean my BPCR rifles. Lowes carries it. Plus it is not dangerous to you or your firearm.

I have seen people tap a very tight patch through the bore. I have seen folks with brass cleaning rods that are thick enough pound them through by tapping against the ground to removed stubborn lead.

Kerosene or diesel fuel will do the same, but it is has a strong odor. I had heard that Hoppes # 9 is basically kerosene with some additives to make it smell better. If you swab the baore with kerosene and let it siut a day or two then use a tight fitting cloth patch, much of the leading will be removed. You may have to repeat the process a few times. I use an aluminum patch--must faster and no harsh odors.

[MBTcustom]

I've probably been doing it wrong all these years, but I just wrap normal steel wool around a worn out brush and scrub it out in a few strokes.

[Wally]

I've probably been doing it wrong all these years, but I just wrap normal steel wool around a worn out brush and scrub it out in a few strokes.

Are you using 0000 steel wool?

[MBTcustom]

000 steel wool. I don't cross the crown very much. I figure that is the only really fragile part of the barrel. I vice the gun, and put my finger over the end of the barrel, so I know where to stop. Just go back and forth a dozen or so times and then out of the bore. I follow with a mop and I'm done. I have full capability to recrown the barrel if I have to but so far I have never had a problem. I use the same steel wool on the outside of the gun to gently remove surface rust without damaging the blueing, so why not use it on the inside as well?
I also have SS bore brushes I use if it gets really bad, but usually, 000 steel wool works like a charm.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Make yourself a home made Outer's Foul out. Use industrial strength pneumonia as the cleaning agent. It'll do every thing you need doing, clean your barrel of all fouling and be super cheap to do so. google is your friend on learning how to do this. All other methods are just too much work and not nearly as effective.

As far as stopping the leading, properly sized bullets of the appropriate hardness for the velocity you're firing them at will eliminate the leading from happening.

Do your due diligence research on this website. Assuming it's the hardness of the lead alone is a mistake. Follow the advice of much more experienced casters from this board and you'll do well.

[eagle-man]

I have also found that Safariland's #10 solvent does a really good job of disolving the lead. You can actially see chuncks of lead coming loose from the barrel.

[Chicken Thief]

Use industrial strength pneumonia as the cleaning agent.
Isnt that called SARS :kidding:

[fourarmed]

Kroil does a very good job getting under lead in a barrel. Used with the techniques mentioned above, it will take it out quickly.

[rbertalotto]

pneumonia and steel wool..........learn something new every day!

[hithard]

Sweets and strands from a cooper scowering pad on your old brush. I put enough strands on the brush to give a nice tight fit and run through a half dozen times. Then some sweets on a mop, then back with the brush. Then a nice tight dry patch. Usually only took this routine once

So nice to not have to deal with leading anymore.

[Tokarev]

I use copper brush with ATF and it removes leading from my 9mil handgun very quickly, in about 10 passes.

[fouronesix]

I use either steel wool or bronze wool tightly patched along with an oil like Kroil. For handguns, that can really build up thick lead, I've used a Lewis Lead Remover for over 30 years. But I just have to try the pneumonia technique :)

[Bren R.]

a Lewis Lead Remover for over 30 years.

That's way too long to be using a Lewis Lead Remover... a minute or two at most. :kidding:

Bren R.

[fouronesix]

That's way too long to be using a Lewis Lead Remover... a minute or two at most. :kidding:

Bren R.

:drinks:

[mongo]

I use chore boy copper wrapped around an old brush and a good squirt of Ballistol. I got two cans of Ballistol from Midway. I leave a good coat in the barrels and wipe them out before shootin. The Ballistol seems to season the bore to where the lead wipes out a lot easier. Smells like old socks but is non-toxic and works,

[Gibson]

Hg
.
.
.

[Milsurp Junkie]

Mercury. If you can find some.

It has been used, and does work, by forming an amalgum with the lead/copper.
There are only two metals mercury will not form an amalgum with. Iron, and platinum. It will however wet those surfaces. After cleaning it with mercury, and then shooting rounds through it, you just contaminated an entire are with mercury vapor and aerosol droplets. Not good for you, your family, your pets, or anything else.

Mercury is nasty stuff in vapor form, worse in soluble form, and even worse in organomercury form. It does not magically disappear.

Milsurp Junkie

[Tokarev]

H2O2 slowly dissolves leading. The more concentrated - the better. Add a bit of vinegar or citric acid to it, degrease the barrel and dip in solution.

[Gibson]

It has been used, and does work, by forming an amalgum with the lead/copper.
There are only two metals mercury will not form an amalgum with. Iron, and platinum. It will however wet those surfaces. After cleaning it with mercury, and then shooting rounds through it, you just contaminated an entire are with mercury vapor and aerosol droplets. Not good for you, your family, your pets, or anything else.

Mercury is nasty stuff in vapor form, worse in soluble form, and even worse in organomercury form. It does not magically disappear.

Milsurp Junkie

Hg has been used for centuries to rid barrels of lead, you are correct.

I have a friend who has used it since 1986 it's bound to get him eventually, though. . . 26 years is really pushing his luck!

Odd, too, is his entire family is fine. I can't believe it. However he has no pets, I bet if he did they'd be belly up. Doesn't he understand that the stuff is akin to Pu-239! I'll bet you he has a house full of CFL lights too. And I'm guessing if one breaks he doesn't abandon his home for the proper length of time and take precautions, as provided for by the EPA guidelines. Found here: http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Can you imagine what would happen if we had only known about this stuff years back when a broken thermometer was just casually tossed? That's 500 milligrams unleashed on the world, when trash was burned! Then it gets out there and cozies up to some carbon and then, organic mercury compunds! We must have missed utter devastation by accident.

[EDIT TO ADD: Just yanking your chain here, not trying to be a jerk.]

He cleans lead from his barrel by scuffing the lead with a stiff copper brush and then pouring a small amount of Hg into the barrel and "jostling" the it back and forth, and then pouring it back into the bottle. He then waits ~30-60 minutes and then patches with heavy flannel patch and disposes of it. His words:

"How long will a pound last? I have been using the same less than 1 ounce for the past 25 years without having to replenish the vial it is kept in. Maybe 1/2 of it has been used up! You will find a gray scum forms on the surface, simply use a Q-Tip to skim this scum off, it is Lead and Mercuric Oxide. This amount was given to me. I did buy a pound from Chem-Lab shortly after, but, as I recall, I have never used any of it!" He posted this sometime back, elsewhere.

So, about this much "." is consumed. Roughly the amount in a broken CFL bulb. It is patched out with the heavy flannel.

It may be the scourge that it has of recent years been made out to be. I do not know. What I do know is what I just posted. I haven't used it myself but have seen his results over the decades and would have no problems using it and would if it was necessary. Then again, we fooled with it in grade school all the time and that was 35 years ago, just before it become anathema.

But Pb, now that is NASTY stuff. God knows how many it has put in the ground :)

However, I do not recommend using it. Not sure why I even posted in this thread. I bow to your expertise. But nevertheless would use mercury for barrel cleaning if need be.

I am not a chemist although I did at one time take a keen interest in electrochemistry and bought a lot of equipment. It now sits in storage. :) Or has been tossed.

A man with your background has far more right to speak about such than I do. So I'll leave you to it. That part is quite sincere. My education is in philosophy and my graduate study was in mathematics, which I promptly gave up on after a semester as life got in the way.

I wish cancer and other health concerns were easily understood as to causation. I truly do. My son has leukemia yet he has been reared in am environment without smoking, with relatively few environmental toxins (very rural area), not even lead or mercury. . . I never cast a bullet until after he was diagnosed. He has eaten a pretty clean diet. However, I do not for a second doubt that it was in his genes and for that I blame myself.

I'll leave it with you, as sans doubt you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about such. And, again, that is sincere.

[I'll Make Mine]

As with many other chemical threats (including lead), mercury has been demonized. As with most of the others, it's not as bad as it's been made out, unless it's in just the right state. Methyl mercury can kill you, slowly, with a drop of the stuff on your skin. Liquid mercury used in forming felt (in large vats, by hand, for years on end) used to give hatters enough brain damage to produce the "Mad Hatter" Alice met in Wonderland. Use the same precautions you would while handling lead for casting (don't eat or drink while handling the metal, wash hands afterward, and change clothes if there's a chance of contamination) and you can probably use small amounts of mercury for a long time without problems.

If I had a major leading or jacket fouling problem, I'd probably try mercury after other methods had failed -- but the real solution is to prevent leading in the first place by using boolits of the correct size and hardness for your load (or going to paper patch, where lead never touches the steel).

[Tokarev]

Big difference between lead and mercury is that later is volatile.

[Milsurp Junkie]

Gibson (no offense was taken with your comments, I agree that these things have become demonized in the media, but they should be respected and used safely with common sense).

Also, if for some reason that you break a CFL light or mercury thermometer. There are two things that you can do to help clean it up. One is zinc dust, as it forms an amalgam (and slows the volatility of mercury vapor). The other one (and a lot more available) is sulfur dust. It reacts with liquid mercury at room temperature to form insoluble mercury sulfide.
This is what we used when we had mercury spills in our lab (and what our mercury cleanup kit contained). As I said, elemental liquid mercury is not really bad, it is the vapor, the soluble salts and the organomercury compounds that are the ones to be most concerned with.

At one point some unscrupulous people would wipe their bores with liquid mercury prior to selling at gun shows. The reason? The bore looked perfect and shone like a mirror, even though it was pitted and dark underneath the mercury.

Milsurp Junkie.

[Gibson]

Last post here, my pm notwithstanding Milsurp, as I want to leave this to the experts. A class in which I do not count myself.

"What about vapor?

However, elemental mercury is not a safe substance. As already mentioned, mercury vapor is the most easily absorbed form. The vapor pressure of mercury is relatively low, which (in layman’s terms) means that if you set out a bunch of liquid mercury in an enclosed space, enough of it will eventually evaporate to lead to dangerous levels of vapor.

This leads to the first rule of mercury safety: Don’t expose mercury in an enclosed space. Be sure to ventilate any area well during and after mercury is exposed.

How much ventilation is required? It depends on how much mercury is exposed, what form it’s in, and how long it’s exposed. The volatility of mercury at room temperature (68 degrees F) is 0.056 mg/hr-cm², which means 0.056 milligrams of mercury vapor will evaporate per hour for every square centimeter of surface area. Suppose you have one medium drop of mercury sitting out with an area of 1 square centimeter (a little less than half the size of a dime), which would be roughly the size of a drop from all the mercury in two or three medical thermometers (or one lab thermometer). About 0.056 mg of mercury would evaporate from that drop within an hour at room temperature.

Is that a dangerous quantity of mercury vapor? Probably not. As mentioned above, the blood-mercury level for minimum toxicity is considered to be 0.05 mg/L. A typical adult has about 5 liters of blood, meaning it would take a minimum of 0.25 mg of mercury to lead to basic poisoning levels. If the space was well-sealed (not ventilated at all) and you stood over that drop of mercury and breathed deeply to absorb all the fumes for an hour, you’d take at most 0.045 mg into your body. (Only about 80% of mercury vapor breathed in is actually absorbed.) It would take quite a few hours of intensely breathing in mercury fumes above a drop of mercury before you could even approach poisoning levels, and that is in a closed room. If you ventilate the space even minimally, it’s very unlikely that a small amount of mercury like this will lead to poisoning through vapor.

But don’t take my word on it. Someone did an actual peer-reviewed study where they put two drops of mercury — one a bit smaller and one a bit larger than the one I assume here — in an office and let them sit uncovered for a few months. The office wasn’t ventilated in any special way; it was just a typical office. The rate of evaporation was measured frequently by weighing the amount of mercury that remained in each drop, and the mercury levels in the air around each drop were measured with a meter. At no point did the mercury levels even approach dangerous levels; in fact, they were always well over a hundred times lower than the OSHA limit for toxic mercury exposure in the workplace. The study estimated that it would take 500 to 2000 such drops from broken thermometers, all sitting around in a small office, to exceed the limit for toxic mercury exposure from the vapor given off."

Suppose that's why he always cleans outside if he uses it. . . as I assume the users of bygone eras did. In the open air, out-of-doors, and something less than the size of this ".", likely much less after patching, is exposed over the huge area of the outdoors, well. . . compounds and salts notwithstanding.

[Tokarev]

A tiny spherical drop of Hg sitting on the floor is quite different from Hg mist created by firing a bullet thru a barrel covered in Hg.

[Gibson]

A tiny spherical drop of Hg sitting on the floor is quite different from Hg mist created by firing a bullet thru a barrel covered in Hg.

[I post this only because I suppose you may have missed the details of my earlier post]

You are correct the spherical drop is contained in an enclosed area and has far greater volume and weight. The utterly tiny amount that MIGHT be left in the barrel is shot in the out-of-doors.

I suppose you missed the fact that in 26 years he has consumed ~1/2 ounce. Rather than state it, I quoted it. He consumes something on the order of this ". " amount when employed which is roughly the amount contained in a CFL. THAT AMOUNT IS THEN PATCHED WITH A HEAVY FLANNEL PATCH AND DISPOSED OF. So whatever is left in the barrel is FAR less than this "."

Again in 26 years of using it he has consumed < 1/2 ounce.

So whatever tiny amount is left in the barrel is released upon the world.

"How long will a pound last? I have been using the same less than 1 ounce for the past 25 years without having to replenish the vial it is kept in. Maybe 1/2 of it has been used up! You will find a gray scum forms on the surface, simply use a Q-Tip to skim this scum off, it is Lead and Mercuric Oxide. This amount was given to me. I did buy a pound from Chem-Lab shortly after, but, as I recall, I have never used any of it!" He posted this sometime back, elsewhere. "

"The study estimated that it would take 500 to 2000 such drops from broken thermometers, all sitting around in a small office, to exceed the limit for toxic mercury exposure from the vapor given off."

DO NOT USE MERCURY. AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS. THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND ACCEPTABLE. SUITS ME. JUST DO NOT MISQUOTE WHAT I HAVE TYPED. THE MAN IS NOT ADVOCATING ONE SLATHER A BORE WITH MERCURY AND THEN SHOOT IT IN HIS BASEMENT AT HOME.

Good luck in your shooting endeavors. Adios.

But that lead acetate created by employing H2O2 and acetic acid for lead removal, is quite safe :)

[Tokarev]

Just had to clean very stubborn leading deep in a 6" 22 revolver barrel.
It leaded so badly, that after the first patch I had a knee jerk reaction - the bore was blocked.
I could not believe it - I remembered for certain that bore had no obstruction. The first patch collapsed leading of entire barrel into a ball of lead foil. That was a piece of cake. But the first 2" from the forcing cone had lead beads stuck tightly in the groves that I could not get out with patches soaked in Butch Bore Shine or ATF at first.

Then I wrapped a paper towel patch around the jug and wrapped that with steel wool. After just 4-5 passes the bore was mirror all along again. Lesson to self: use copper plated ammo in that gun going forward.

Steel wool with ATF does wonders to leaded bores.

[waksupi]

Just had to clean very stubborn leading deep in a 6" 22 revolver barrel.
It leaded so badly, that after the first patch I had a knee jerk reaction - the bore was blocked.
I could not believe it - I remembered for certain that bore had no obstruction. The first patch collapsed leading of entire barrel into a ball of lead foil. That was a piece of cake. But the first 2" from the forcing cone had lead beads stuck tightly in the groves that I could not get out with patches soaked in Butch Bore Shine or ATF at first.

Then I wrapped a paper towel patch around the jug and wrapped that with steel wool. After just 4-5 passes the bore was mirror all along again. Lesson to self: use copper plated ammo in that gun going forward.

Steel wool with ATF does wonders to leaded bores.


No need for jacketed. Just get the right size, hardness, and lube, and the leading problem is gone for good. It sounds like you were shooting commercial "hard cast" boolits.

[Tokarev]

In 22?

[pastor]

Hey Gibson, sorry to hear about your sons condition, I will keep him and your family in my prayers

As to the orginal post, Eagleman didnt mention what caliber he was shooting and if he had slugged the barrel and what size the boolets were, what load was being used, how fast were the boolets travelling, etc... so its hard to give any advice, the easiest way to clean your barrel is not to lead it in the first place

You can shoot soft lead in some handguns without leading if the boolets are sized correctly, I shoot a 45acp, my load is in between the min. and max. loads, the lead I use is soft, normally around 7-10bhn. I tumble lube 45-45-10 and i get zero leading after well over 10,000 rounds through it

Sounds to me like the OP is using boolets that are too small, but need more info

[rodsvet]

Post #8 by Dragonrider says it all for the cleaning. Get a Foul out and you will get it all out. I've tried everything listed here and the electronic gizmo will still pull lead out after you think you have the bore clean. But getting the pistol to stop leading in the first place or at least very little is the answer. Good luck, Rod