SUPER BLACKHAWK and lilgun and 310 gr...?

[The Black Spot]

is loading 10 gr of lilgun behind a 310 gr cast a safe load in a 44 special case shot out of a sbh?
thanks.

[RobS]

It's probably not a good idea. Lil Gun is not a powder that is at its best when down loaded especially as low as you are thinking of going. I suspect you will have to worry about hang fires etc. Regardless the powder wouldn't work very well as it requires higher operating pressures for best accuracy and burn characteristics; basically put it's well suited for magnum pressure loads.

[looseprojectile]

If it were me, I would do it. Worst that can happen is you will stick a boolit in the bore.
I wouldn't load any just to try them though.
Hornadys minimum load for a 300 grain jacketed in the 44 magnum is 13 grains of LilGun for a velocity of 1,000 fps. That might be just what I need for my bowling pin loads.



Life is good

[The Black Spot]

It's probably not a good idea. Lil Gun is not a powder that is at its best when down loaded especially as low as you are thinking of going. I suspect you will have to worry about hang fires etc. Regardless the powder wouldn't work very well as it requires higher operating pressures for best accuracy and burn characteristics; basically put it's well suited for magnum pressure loads.

I didnt think I,would get hang fires with that lee 310 seated to top crimp groove, figured it would be close enough to powder to keep it on the primer.
I would think if 13 gr is ok in mag case why would 10 or 11 gr be ok in special case? am I missing something?

[tek4260]

What are you trying to accomplish?

Yes 10gr would work in a special case with the boolit seated short, but you are out of the optimal window for LilGun and need to switch powder if you are trying to reduce loads.

[RobS]

What are you trying to accomplish?

Yes 10gr would work in a special case with the boolit seated short, but you are out of the optimal window for LilGun and need to switch powder if you are trying to reduce loads.

Correct and also why would you want to have a reduced load with the possibility of ignition problems. Maybe there wouldn't be issues but there are much better powders out there for lower pressure load development.

[44man]

A 310 gr is not a good choice in a special no matter how you look at it. You can't spin it up and heavy, long boolits need spin.
Chunkin punkins can make sideways holes.
Lilgun also burns HOT and can damage a revolver. It is .410 powder. It has little flame suppressant to extend burn time.
I have seen 12 shots turn a barrel so hot you could not touch it. It will erode steel.

[The Black Spot]

What are you trying to accomplish?

Yes 10gr would work in a special case with the boolit seated short, but you are out of the optimal window for LilGun and need to switch powder if you are trying to reduce loads.

I had loaded some lee 310 ww cast and was looking for a mid range load and figured since I had some lilgun why not try it? so I loaded up some 10 gr lilgun with the 310 and it shot real accurate. I was knocking over 6x6" steel plates at 100 yds with it. then someone told me that was a danger load. could get squibs, etc. so I came to this forum looking for truth, wondering if this load would work in a special case.
so the answer to "why" is accuracy.

[44man]

I had loaded some lee 310 ww cast and was looking for a mid range load and figured since I had some lilgun why not try it? so I loaded up some 10 gr lilgun with the 310 and it shot real accurate. I was knocking over 6x6" steel plates at 100 yds with it. then someone told me that was a danger load. could get squibs, etc. so I came to this forum looking for truth, wondering if this load would work in a special case.
so the answer to "why" is accuracy.
Squib loads are possible and all here are extremely safety conscious. It is for you. You might get away with it but eventually you might stick a boolit and blow your gun with the next shot.
I admit Lilgun is accurate if loaded right but it is still too hot. Pressures are low but heat is not.
I gave up the powder so I am not in a position to say what loads are safe. Understand it was heat that made me leave it. My guns are too valuable to subject them to harm when other powders work.
Some powders can NOT be downloaded too much. It does not matter what you have gotten away with so far.
Look at 296 and H110! Do you know it is safer to overload then to download? Then another powder CAN NOT BE INCREASED at all. Some will spike with a few tenths gr.
I feel you should understand the powders you use in every gun, REALLY know the powder and all limitations up or down.

[The Black Spot]

44 man, thanks, and thanks to,all for info. I will drop lilgun in all pistol cartridges, I believe in safety as well. maybe I,can use it in shotgun loads somwhere. I sold my 22 hornet so,thats out. if wont work in 12 gauge might trade off to someone.

[odoh]

One shot in my 454 Puma the chamber end of the rifle barrel was H O T! Already had 4#s of that stuff on hand. On another forum a guy burned out three barrels on his FA 83 454 before catching on. One had burned out in <150 rnds. ~ aint gonna get no more

[PS Paul]

So not to go ENTIRELY off topic, but there has been a bunch of information out there about Lil Gun and some of the negative qualities it has. I have it and have used it in .357 mag. The bad things about it scare the bejeezus out of me, so i've relegated it to the back of the powder cupboard for now. On first glance, it looks like the miracle poweder! High velocities, low SD and much LOWER pressures for outstanding results. After seeing and reading enough bad stuff and experiencing a "smokin' hot gun" after a few cylinders-full at the range, I'm shelving it. that's all.

As far as the OP, I would certainly NOT tell you to not use it. I don't necessarily appreciate unsolicited advice. It's Your own risk, that's all.

[The Black Spot]

thanks again all. lilgun was outstanding in the 22 hornet. I had a 12 point something load with a 40 gr hp that would shoot under an 1" at 100 yds.
I to am shelving it unless it will work in my 444 marlin.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with 44 man. Lilgun is not longer stocked on my shelves. It just burns to hot and theres other powders like 110/296 and aa9 that will get you there without damaging your gun.

[454PB]

I did some chronographing last week, and one of the loads was:

Lee 310 Gr. GC in WW alloy, seated to crimp in the forward groove
24 Gr. Lil'Gun
CCI 450 primer

These were fired in a FA 83 454 Casull with 4 3/4" barrel, avg. velocity 1350 fps. E.S 35 fps.

After I was done with the chrono, I fired another 25 rounds within about 10 minutes, and then picked up the gun by the barrel. It was warm, but no warmer than it is when using H-110, and certainly not warm enough that I couldn't continue to hold it by the barrel for over a minute.

Apparently my lots of Lil'Gun are different than what others have.....and I bought 24 pounds of it several years ago.

[uscra112]

Lil'Gun doesn't burn any hotter than any other powder in that "speed range". What it does have is a "fat tail" to the pressure curve, so the heat is transferred into the barrel farther up the bore from the chamber. That may not be a good thing for revolvers, but I shoot it in my 12" Contender (.357 Max) and have excellent results. That fat tail provides velocity at lower pressures than the commonly recommended alternatives. I have not noticed any unusual heating, but then this thing is a hunting gun, so I sight-in accordingly. Shoot one, wait ten minutes, shoot another.

I too use it quite a lot in the Hornet. Anybody who's wanting to get rid of theirs can send it to me.

[Tom W.]

Or me. I haven't had any problems with it. It did well in my Encore, and does well in my .44 mag SRH. I'll probably go back to H110, but only because it's usually more available than Lil' Gun.

[Lloyd Smale]

take two identical six guns and shoot about 24 rounds as fast as you can reload and shoot using lilgun and either aa9 or 110 and then feel the barrels on the two guns and then tell me that lilgun doesnt burn hotter. I gave up on it in handguns a few years back because of this. Figued id burn the last keg of it up i had in the 5o beowulf. I loaded a bunch up with lilgun and had another batch i had loaded with wc297. I was fart around at the range shooting a pile of block someone dumped there. 10 shots with lilgun fast and you could about light a cigerette off the barrel of that rifle. 10 rounds with 297 and i could carry the gun by the barrel. A bit of advice. If you insist on using it at least shoot very slowly and allow your gun to keep cool. It may not prevent all the errosion but it might cut it down some. the problems with it arent made up. Freedom arms will no longer even warantee a gun that its used in. To bad as without that problem it was a great powder. Probably more versitile and effecient then even 110 or aa9. After the beo test the last 3 lbs in the keg were used for fertilizer.
Lil'Gun doesn't burn any hotter than any other powder in that "speed range". What it does have is a "fat tail" to the pressure curve, so the heat is transferred into the barrel farther up the bore from the chamber. That may not be a good thing for revolvers, but I shoot it in my 12" Contender (.357 Max) and have excellent results. That fat tail provides velocity at lower pressures than the commonly recommended alternatives. I have not noticed any unusual heating, but then this thing is a hunting gun, so I sight-in accordingly. Shoot one, wait ten minutes, shoot another.

I too use it quite a lot in the Hornet. Anybody who's wanting to get rid of theirs can send it to me.

[Tom W.]

Well golly, Wally... I don't shoot anything that fast, except maybe my 22/45, and it can get pretty hot by doing that.As can my Ruger#1 if I let it. I suppose moderation is the key here...

[Hardcast]

Holy Cow! I was going to buy a can of LilGun on Saturday when I stopped in at a local guns shop. I would like to try it in my 38 Super Colt Commander. But, the price on it was $25.00 plus 7% tax = $26.75 ! I hate to sound like a cheapskate, but I hate to spend that much money just to try a few rounds. And now, I read here that some of you guys don't like it. :(

[Tom W.]

A contrary picky bunch we can be. There's a LOT of things that we don't necessarily agree on...:bigsmyl2:

[454PB]

While I read and respect all the opinions on this board, sometimes it's best to try things for yourself.

I like Hercules (now Alliant) Bluedot powder, and have used it in everything from 9mm to 45/70 over the past 30 years. If you do much reading on gun forums, you'll find that many handloaders say it is borderline dangerous to use. Different strokes for different folks.

[Moonie]

While I read and respect all the opinions on this board, sometimes it's best to try things for yourself.

I like Hercules (now Alliant) Bluedot powder, and have used it in everything from 9mm to 45/70 over the past 30 years. If you do much reading on gun forums, you'll find that many handloaders say it is borderline dangerous to use. Different strokes for different folks.

I've got a can of Bluedot in my reloading room, I've heard its scary dangerous stuff, so far I've only used it in some 12 guage slug loads. I keep my gun pointed at it in case it comes at me...

:bigsmyl2: