The use of .308 brass VS .358 Win Brass ?

[JesterGrin_1]

Like many people I like to use brass that is stamped correctly for the caliber of the firearm. But .358 Winchester Brass is much more expensive than 308 Win Brass. And depending on how you look at it lol. I do not own a .308 to get the ammo confused with. :)

And yes I know that 308 Win brass can be made into .358 Win brass but is there any drawbacks in doing so?

And if not and I wished to purchase new brass than I could purchase standard .308 Win Brass or Nosler and so forth for more consistent brass.

A semi question about 308 VS 358 Win brass was brought up in another thread.

I noticed that now Hornady has .308 Win Brass. Has anyone used it or to say which maker of brass would be preferred to change from .308 Win to .358 Win Brass and is it even worth the savings in doing so over just purchasing .358 Win brass to start with?

[SciFiJim]

I just looked on Midway for price comparison. Looks like .358 brass is almost twice the price of .308 brass. If it was me, I would go with the .308 brass and convert it.

[Artful]

Like many people I like to use brass that is stamped correctly for the caliber of the firearm. But .358 Winchester Brass is much more expensive than 308 Win Brass. And depending on how you look at it lol. I do not own a .308 to get the ammo confused with. :)

And yes I know that 308 Win brass can be made into .358 Win brass but is there any drawbacks in doing so?

Thin necks but not really a problem.

And if not and I wished to purchase new brass than I could purchase standard .308 Win Brass or Nosler and so forth for more consistent brass.

A semi question about 308 VS 358 Win brass was brought up in another thread.

I noticed that now Hornady has .308 Win Brass. Has anyone used it or to say which maker of brass would be preferred to change from .308 Win to .358 Win Brass and is it even worth the savings in doing so over just purchasing .358 Win brass to start with?

All most all of my 358's are from once fire 7.62x51 Military Brass. Works great and inexpensive.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

especially if you can buy the once-fired surplus 308 cases for about 3.5 cents apiece.

[Piedmont]

I have only converted a few cases (have a .358 and Redding dies and now a mold but never shot the rifle, yet). The thing that impressed me was how darn easy it was. I did lube the inside of the necks and you should too, but I noticed NO difference in force from sizing a normal .308 case in .308 dies. The .358 cases look so cool, too. Made me wonder why I hadn't gone this route much sooner, and of course, the rifle was always the hang-up. Not many .358s floating around out there.

[JesterGrin_1]

I understand that one can use probably any type of 308 Win Brass but is the extra cost worth it for such brass as Lapua,Nosler Or Hornady over standard Remington or Winchester brass?

I Fully understand that many wish to get there components as cheap as possible so the question of quality VS Initial funds outlay for Quality components.

Or to say the Most BANG for the Buck. :)

[flounderman]

I would use the military brass. If you think spending more for commercial is the way to go, by all means, go for it. You won't get any better results and the military case life will be better.

[MBTcustom]

I just finished sizing and priming about 100 LC match brass to 358 winchester last night. Its good stuff once you get it sized, but let me caution you to use plenty of case lube for your first sizing of military brass! These were fired from a rifle with a very generouse chamber, and they took quite a lot of effort to push into, and extract from, the FLsize die. The truth is, I ripped the rims off of three of them and had to get them out of the die with a few judicious love taps on the depriming pin rod.
Also, one possible drawback is that sizing these military brass up to 358 shortens the neck, so if you plan on paper patching you will have paper rings to contend with. They are supposed to be 2.015 and all of mine are about 2.002 after resizing.
I have bought and traded with members here for 358Winchester headstamped brass, and although the headstamps are correct, the quality of the brass was kinda shoddy. Definitely low end.
Once I finish cracking the necks on these 100 LC. I am going to buy a couple hundred Hornady and be done with it. I found one at the range (308) and I was very impressed by the clean, accurate flash-hole amongst other things.

[bobthenailer]

Ive necked down alot of brass to make cases for a few different wildcats and some factory calibers that were hard to get brass for with compleat satisfaction ! Necking up from 30 to 35 caliber ? some problem with this is the neck wall thickness being to thin after expanding & shortning of the brass COL ! since the 358 Win brass is avalible pay the price ! and save the extra work + the correct headstamp. If you decide to size up 308 to 358 you will have to buy at least a tapered expander stem to do the job from the die manufactuer such as redding to fit there dies for about $22.00 or what ever brand dies you use.

[waksupi]

I resize from .308. Easy to do, lube inside the neck, and one pass. I have seen no accuracy difference in my rifles from various makes of brass. I also have .358 Win head stamp, no difference there, either.

[MBTcustom]

If you decide to size up 308 to 358 you will have to buy at least a tapered expander stem to do the job from the die manufactuer such as redding to fit there dies for about $22.00 or what ever brand dies you use.
Or you could talk to a guy like me, or you could grab your handy dandy drill motor, and your handy dandy belt sander, followed by a light touch with the 'ol emery paper to lay a small taper on the nose of your expander ball.
I made a separate die with interchangeable mandrels. One mandrel is the first time expander (about a 1" taper) and the other is an M die of sorts. My 358 set has a severely undersized expanding ball (.354 or .355 IIRC) so the M die gets quite a workout. Anyway, it isn't hard to make a small 1" long taper that screws into a 1/4-28 all-thread rod that will replace the original.
Even a home hobbyist with a good hand drill could do it I would think.

[odicoilius]

Jestergrin No problem if you use a tapered expander and anneal the brass after. Much .308 brass is of much better quality than .358 (even Win. 308 brass is better even though they are the only ones you can get .358 brass from anymore). To anneal the brass make SURE that at least 1/2 of the brass is under water when heated (unless you want to wear your bolt as a head ornament!)

[runfiverun]

i like to use once fired military brass for my 358 also.
the case necks are expanded some for me and they have a good anneal to them.
the only ones i use from commercial cases are federal, i give them a quick anneal and expand them up then full length size them.
yeah, working the case necks a little bit.

i use my rem and win for cast loads in my 308's

[1Shirt]

Have not made any 358 in years, because I foolishly sold my 99 Sav (Ya I know a really dumb move). That said found it an easy conversion, with tapered expander.
I did it in two stages with annealed 308 brass. I went with a 32 cal expander, and then a 35. Lost very few.
1Shirt!

[MT Gianni]

I shoot both and mark the 358 with nail polish on the base. I also have some 35 Whelen that started out as 270. & 30-06. The nose is easy to tell but a dot of nail polish is easy when you are just looking @ bases to sort.

[chboats]

A question about expanding up to a larger caliber. I see reference to annealing after expanding. I understand this is to relieve the work hardening. Would annealing before expanding make it easier to expand and reduce the possibility of cracked necks?

Carl

[softpoint]

Yes, you can anneal before necking up, I sometimes do. Especially if the .308 brass has been fired a couple times. The only difference I can see is that my necked-up .308 comes out a little shorter than the 358, (the neck is a bit shorter), but that is no problem at all, it is a very small amount.

[beex215]

especially if you can buy the once-fired surplus 308 cases for about 3.5 cents apiece.

where?

[scb]

I understand that one can use probably any type of 308 Win Brass but is the extra cost worth it for such brass as Lapua,Nosler Or Hornady over standard Remington or Winchester brass?

I Fully understand that many wish to get there components as cheap as possible so the question of quality VS Initial funds outlay for Quality components.

Or to say the Most BANG for the Buck. :)

To my way for thinking the 358 is not a long range proposition. I think the greatest need for consistency is when ranges pass say 300 yards. I use Nosler brass in my 260 Rem. I wouldn't and don't go to that expense loading my .358. I too prefer GI brass.

[XTR]

I've not done this particular resizing operation but there are two things I'd put in here.

1. I'd be leery of using WW 308 brass. It already has the thinnest necks on the market. Federal is thicker and softer so it might do you better if you can't get used LC, (which is made by Federal since they run the plant these days)

2. If you are necking up in size watch out for a doughnut where the shoulder use to be. It's pretty common with guys taking something like say Lapua 260 up to a 7-08 to have to ream the necks. If you seat deep enough to get into the doughnut you can get some neck tension and pressure issues.

[358 Win]

In loading for my .358 Winchesters for 32 years, I can't begin to tell you how many rounds went
down range using reformed brass. I like to use .243 or 7mm-08 brass because they come out closer to 2.015" than does .308 brass. No problem what so ever using cases a little shorter than
the trim to length. The deer killed to date did not know they were killed with reformed brass!
358 Win

[35Whelen]

I have bought the .358 brass from Hornady. It is pricey stuff up here in Canada at almost a $1 a piece. I made a contact with a sniper training officer in one of our Police forces here ( I used to be a member, now retired ) he sold me enough once fired Federal Match .308 to last a lifetime for my .358. I have annealed the necks on LC, Imperial and IVI as they are very heavy cases...sometimes as much as 20 grains heavier than others. I now have a dedicated expanding die. It's a 35 cal neck sizing die made by Hornady....I love their dies they are wonderfully made. It has a very long tapered expander ball, and if I do my part no splits. Here is what I do with regular sporting .308 cases:
I run a stainless bore brush on a cordless drill in and out of the neck to give it a nice cross hatch pattern, this also holds the lube inside the neck much better. I then use either a Q TIP with some STP son of a gun, or armour all and wipe the inside of the case neck. I have also used Hornady case lube paste and dab some on my finger tip....then just scoop a very small amount off with the lip of the neck until I have a VERY small bead of it around the inside of the case mouth. The Redding expander has such a long taper it makes a single smooth pass , without a split. They are not difficult to expand and do not require a lot of pressure. I mark the neck of my case that I am expanding by coloring the entire neck with a felt marker..then adjust the neck die down until I see I am making good contact and expanding the full neck. I made the mistake of expanding a bunch of cases one night then priming them, without chambering the case....yes, you guessed it, I didn't size far enough down the neck and I couldn't close the bolt without a good effort. I had to knock the primers out and do it all over again. So after I color the neck with the marker, I continue to screw the die down until I get just a soft yet with a slight bit of resistance from the bolt when I close it. This ensures I get good head spacing , and don't over adjust the die and push the shoulder back too far..
Then I uniform the primer pocket with a cutter, bevel the inside of the primer flash hole with my primer flash hole tool, trim to square up the case mouth ( they are typically 10 thous under SAAMI specs) but that is where I trim to anyways, so no worries about them being short. The neck is then chamfered in and out and finally a cross hatch pattern inside the neck with a cordless drill and bore brush for uniform neck tension. Lastly I prime with CCI BR-2 primers and I am done. I spend more time on brass prep than any other procedure in reloading...it's like therapy time for me and helps recharge the batteries, and I like eliminating every possible thing that can go wrong with a load. If I make a bad shot....I know it was me and not the tools. Dad used to say...." It was a poor workman who blames his tools "

[rockrat]

I just got a 358 back from JES reboring. I have formed 358 brass from Federal, R-P, and Laupua. The RP has the thinnest necks, about .002" less in dia., so .001"/side. Barely get boolit release, clearance is so tight, so can't really use the others unless I get a neck reamer. Think I need it as I do get a "doughnut" right at the base of the neck.

I have a barrel for an XP100, from a rechambered 35rem. Reformed cases from NATO IK brass and it shoots very well.

Need to get some WW308 brass and reform so see if I can get even a bit thinner necks or just run my 358 reamer in the chamber and open up the neck.

[400short]

Be careful when using reformed LC brass. I found that I ran into pressure limits before reaching my desired velocity. I'm sure due to reduced internal case volume. Winchester commercial brass did not express this problem. YMMV.

Regards,
Bill

[JesterGrin_1]

You could send it back to JES and have him open it up a bit so that you will not have a problem with Brass.

[35 shooter]

You could send it back to JES and have him open it up a bit so that you will not have a problem with Brass.

JesterGrin_1 Have you done any 358009 work with that AI yet? One of these days i've gotta find a donor rifle to send to JES. My whelen is lonesome in the closet and wants a little brother in .358!!!:bigsmyl2:

[rexherring]

where?

http://www.bbrbrass.com/product-category/military-brass/

[Bjornb]

I just got a 358 back from JES reboring. I have formed 358 brass from Federal, R-P, and Laupua. The RP has the thinnest necks, about .002" less in dia., so .001"/side. Barely get boolit release, clearance is so tight, so can't really use the others unless I get a neck reamer. Think I need it as I do get a "doughnut" right at the base of the neck.

Guys, do yourselves a favor and look into neck turning before you start reaming the inside of your case necks. Inside reaming is an UNSUPPORTED procedure; you'll likely be much better served by outside turning the necks. And if you want to remove any donut in the process, get this tool:
123667
The K&M neck turner has a mandrel that also has a cutter on the mandrel tip itself; it removes the donut and nothing more as you cut the outside neck.

[nanuk]

Inside reaming is an UNSUPPORTED procedure

you are using the wrong tool then....

[nanuk]

I wonder how x55 brass would work.... would make for a nice fit if the sizing die was well sized.

[claude]

I wonder how x55 brass would work....

The rim and base dimensions for the 6.5X55 are larger than the .308/.358, correct sizing could be problematic.

[Bjornb]

you are using the wrong tool then....

I have not found any inside neck reaming tool that supports the other side of the brass (the outside of the neck) so that only a measurable amount of brass can be removed from the inside. If you know of one such tool, please educate me. I always strive to learn new techniques.

[dragon813gt]

Inside reaming does not produce a uniform thickness. It should only be used to rough cut the brass when a good bit has to be removed. Outside neck turning will yield a uniform thickness. I haven't has any issue using reformed LC brass in a Savage 99 that was rebored by JES.

[Bjornb]

Inside reaming does not produce a uniform thickness. It should only be used to rough cut the brass when a good bit has to be removed. Outside neck turning will yield a uniform thickness. I haven't has any issue using reformed LC brass in a Savage 99 that was rebored by JES.

My experience exactly, but Nanuk seems to be of a different opinion, and I was curious as to the tool he is talking about that does supported inside neck reaming.

[dragon813gt]

My experience exactly, but Nanuk seems to be of a different opinion, and I was curious as to the tool he is talking about that does supported inside neck reaming.

I would like to know what tool he's talking about as well :)

[GLynn41]

guys you can also use 30.06-- remove the decaper-- lube a 30/06 and size in the .358 sizer -- then trim -- chamfer an shoot-- i hunt with nickled 30.06 brass they really last

[nanuk]

RCBS makes a reamer die, that you used once fired cases in.... supports the whole case, and the reamer too, so all is aligned. LEE Target model Loaders have that same operation I believe.

designed for reducing material in reduced necks, but also works with expanded necks if the neck is expanded slightly over, so it is partially sized in the die and held tight and straight

w w w.midwayusa.com/find?newcategorydimensionid=12783

[nanuk]

The rim and base dimensions for the 6.5X55 are larger than the .308/.358, correct sizing could be problematic.


in North American brass often the bases are on the small side, when coupled with most factory chambers (slightly on the loose side) you could end up with a nice fit in the chamber. Trim length could be perfected also is PP to eliminate paper rings, as GoodSteel mentioned.

if the base is sized a tad, the primer pocket could be reamed a bit, as well as the flash hole.

I have a PILE of Norma x55 brass ( as well as some other off shore brands ) that I was looking at playing with for a perfect chamber fit.

having to use a different shellholder is a non-issue with me.

[claude]

I hope that works out for you nanuk, it will help you while away all those hours in the igloo when the snow is *** deep on a tall indian.:kidding:

[Bjornb]

RCBS makes a reamer die, that you used once fired cases in.... supports the whole case, and the reamer too, so all is aligned. LEE Target model Loaders have that same operation I believe.

designed for reducing material in reduced necks, but also works with expanded necks if the neck is expanded slightly over, so it is partially sized in the die and held tight and straight

w w w.midwayusa.com/find?newcategorydimensionid=12783

Nanuk,
I stand corrected, thank you for educating me. However, it appears that RCBS only makes these dies and reamers for semi-obscure cartridges that are formed from other brass. I tried to find one for 30-06 that I could have Goodsteel turn down to XCB, but it doesn't seem to exist. Too bad, it looks like a handy tool.