Annealing gas checks?

[ShooterAZ]

Could someone please explain the procedure to anneal gas checks for me?

Thanks...Shooter.

[RU shooter]

All I ever did was dump them in a old pan or skillet and put it on a burner on the stove or hotplate for about 10 minutes and watch for them to change color give them a stir about half way through to make sure they all get even amount of heat .Let them cool and your done

[ShooterAZ]

Sounds simple enough. Thanks RU shooter.

[runfiverun]

i gave you a reply/suggestions on the other thread.

[ShooterAZ]

Thanks!

[MT Gianni]

From the classics and stickies section:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20271&highlight=annealing+gas+checks

[popper]

I'm willing to learn, tell me why you anneal GC? Annealed copper sheet stamped into a GC; hardened. Anneal, then install, swage onto CB butt; hardened. Hit with 30-50K psi;hardened. Copper work hardening is immediate. From memory, making those copper ornaments with a hammer and mold, copper gets hardened the 1st time you hit it, yes, it will harden more as you hit it and break cause it's brittle.

[MT Gianni]

I anneal when I have a mold that the checks will not stay firmly on the bullet base.

[popper]

MT Gianni - OK, I understand that, softer make a glove fit. Possibly better for a CB with a pimpled base. I read the GC section and didn't really find any explanations. Any other reasons?

[ShooterAZ]

I anneal when I have a mold that the checks will not stay firmly on the bullet base.

This is exactly why I wanted to try this. I bought a Lee C285-130-1R that the checks were way too loose on. Unfortunately, while annealing did help (50%), I am still getting too many loose ones. This mold is going back to Midway today.

[popper]

Easy problem to solve with Lee Al moulds, but then it is a Lee.

[Eutectic]

I've read this thread and also the one link MT Gianni attached.

One anonymous poster had it right. Much posted as suggestions to anneal gaschecks follow case neck annealing guidelines for temperatures which doesn't get a gascheck soft (ductile) enough in my opinion. A frying pan just won't cut it!

Your goal is to get the gascheck to fit better when attached and/or not have any 'spring' back to create a loose check as the OP had. The stresses left behind from forming make a great spring especially where the check is now the hardest.

Remember..... when annealing case necks you want to leave some spring left for neck tension... That's why 700 - 850 F temps are important. But we want our gascheck to be 'dead soft' in metallurgical talk. So 1200-1300 F degrees.... Red hot but not quite cherry red. A gascheck done such will size tight and the same size as even a soft alloy boolit does. The gascheck base will flatten against the boolit base and leave NO HIDDEN gaps to 'flirt' with accuracy.

The pipe idea is an OK volume method. Use the paper if you want but the checks will 'scale' a little and will have to be cleaned when done. I soak them in white vinegar. Water quench or air cooled makes no difference as stated. Just get the pipe starting to glow red before you quit heating.

Hornady gaschecks are gilding metal (about 95% Cu, 5% Zn) I believe which is good. BUT I don't believe Hornady or probably anyone else anneals after punching them out and forming. They should for the price! Making a gascheck leaves stresses behind as part of the check is worked harder than other parts. Only the base is probably the same hardness as the original sheet of material used which won't be in a fully annealed state either. So the corner area and part of the crimp forming area becomes the hardest. Work hardness of copper (or brass) isn't instant either. It is proportional to the AMOUNT THE COPPER IS WORKED. Bottomline an annealed gascheck will harden very little with installation or shooting for that matter.

Eutectic

[gray wolf]

The 44 checks I had were too hard and would spring back after sizing, this made them to big for my cylinder throats. This is the advise I was given with a little modification to the procedure. It worked like a charm.
I had a 4" piece of 1" diameter black pipe threaded on both ends, I got a screw on cap for both ends. Screwed on one end cap and poured in a handful of checks,
Leave a little room in the pipe to stuff in a little news paper, then place the other cap on the pipe.
I took a large metal can, the kind the we use to get 3Lb. coffee in. took an old style can opener and went along the bottom making holes in the lower part of the can. Thia is for a nice flow of Air. Then I put about 15 charcoal briquets in the bottom with a little charcoal starter fluid, stepped back and toughed her off.
Place the pipe on top of the charcoal and walk away till it's all done and the coals are all gone. Takes a couple of hours. when the pipe is cool open it and dump the softened checks into a small container. They may be blacked a little, so while in the small container add some Vinegar to cover the checks with a tablespoon of table salt. Stir them around and the checks will get nice and clean with a little shine.
The mixture will re-shine copper bullet like new also.
The whole thing takes less ( hands on time ) than it takes to type it.
Have fun,--
as a perk the can can also be used as a small cooker as in a one stove burner.

Sam,
living in the bush in the western Mountains of Maine.

[popper]

Eutectic - Good data, maybe a sticky if not there already, move from the fable to reality. Technically, Cu hardening is almost instantaneous(<5us) but the hardness is determined by force applied and # times worked. Not real important for what we are doing.

1200-1300 F degrees.... Red hot but not quite cherry red. A gascheck done such will size tight and the same size as even a soft alloy boolit does. The gascheck base will flatten against the boolit base and leave NO HIDDEN gaps to 'flirt' with accuracy. Vinegar to cover the checks with a tablespoon of table salt..sic to clean

[Wally]

This is exactly why I wanted to try this. I bought a Lee C285-130-1R that the checks were way too loose on. Unfortunately, while annealing did help (50%), I am still getting too many loose ones. This mold is going back to Midway today.

This bullet is excellent in my Rem 700 7mm Magnum---I make my own GC's and so I don't have a problem. I also have used the RCBS 168 grain ... factory GC's went on very tightly---I had to hammer them on to make sure they were square (I made a jig to do so)...if I used the Lyman 450 GC seater the bullet tips would be deformed. Perhaps you can tweak the alloy a bit to make the bullets just a bit wider--that will help.

[41mag]

For the most part I don't use a LOT of GC's. However due to this post I DO have a question about them. The bullets I am using them on have always had a tight fit. In fact some of them I have had to tap on to be sure they were fully seated before running them through the sizer.

I am also using the Lee push through sizer and my main concern would be the premature wear caused due to the hard checks. Should this be something I should consider, or am I simply over thinking things again? Should I anneal them or not?

To date I have not had any issues with the checks coming off nor have I noted any amount of wear based upon the sizes of my bullets after being run through.

[marlinman80]

if you truelly want to anneall brass of any type this is how to do it. for something small like a gas check you need a pan of water and a peice of refractory brick or a peice of heat treating block like the one available from scheffeild knifemakers supply. set gas checks on block and in a dark room heat them until they glow red with a propane torch. then grab the brick (with gloves on)and dump them in the bucket of water they will then be perfectly annealed and super soft. Don't put the brick in the water that'll be bad