shotgun fitting

[rtracy2001]

I recently purchased a used Winchester 1300 youth and ladies model in 20 ga. I intended it for a multi-purpose gun that both my daughter (14 yr) and I could use. We went to the trap club this afternoon, I shot my A-5 and she had the Winchester. She went 0 for 25 and was pretty discouraged. Being a very poor shot with a scatter-gun myself, the trap club was a ploy to get someone with more experience to help her out (and get some pointers myself. The 14/25 that I shot was the best I have done in my life.)

The end result was a little bit of instruction and the revelation that the youth model gun is still way too big for her. It looks like at lease 1-1.5 inches have to come off the stock and the recoil pad needs to move down by 3 inches. (I.e., when properly mounted, there is about 3 inches of recoil pad above her shoulder.)

I could probably shorten the stock, but I don't have a clue how to bring the recoil pad down. Any ideas.

Also, the youth stock is a different part number, but will a standard stock fit? Is it just the length of pull that is different, or is there something else that can't be fixed with basic carpentry?

[Cap'n Morgan]

The end result was a little bit of instruction and the revelation that the youth model gun is still way too big for her. It looks like at lease 1-1.5 inches have to come off the stock and the recoil pad needs to move down by 3 inches. (I.e., when properly mounted, there is about 3 inches of recoil pad above her shoulder.)

A shortening the stock should be all she needs. If the recoil pad sits 3 inches above her shoulder she's not mounting the gun properly. Always remember: "The face is the anchor point for the mount, not the shoulder" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbD-xN647b8&feature=fvwrel

[rtracy2001]

When she anchors to the face, 3/4 of the recoil pad is above her shoulder resulting in a fairly painful hold. I can shoten the stock (maintaining the same angles) but I'm not sure that is all she needs.

[I'll Make Mine]

I could probably shorten the stock, but I don't have a clue how to bring the recoil pad down. Any ideas.

If her eye is coming into the correct position over the barrel and bead, the comb height is correct; if the comb height is correct relative to the barrel, then lowering the recoil pad is going to require major resculpting of the rear end of the stock. This does seem odd, though; unless she's got an exceptionally long neck, there shouldn't be that much difference between her mount and the "average" youth mount for which the stock was built.

I think I'd start with shortening and see if that fixes the pad height; pulling her trigger hand in closer should lower the stock on her shoulder. Not only will she be extending her arm less, you'll be moving her head back, both of which will raise her shoulder relative to her head when the gun is mounted.

Stock shortening is easy -- take off the butt pad, scribe the stock parallel to the existing end and cut carefully (best to cut a smidgen long and do the final with a rasp or coarse sandpaper), redrill and put the pad back, apply masking tape to protect the finish before trimming the pad to the new, reduced wood size.

[flounderman]

a shotgun should shoulder normally, you lean into it with your cheek on the comb and you should be looking down the barrel or rib. trap stocks are usually higher comb and straighter than field. she isn't getting down on the stock and is shooting high. the stock has plenty of drop already. she needs to shoulder the gun in a normal way and get her face down on the stock and ahead. the stock could be an inch too long. before you cut it off, drill a couple of 1/4 inch holes in the butt end and have them deep enough that they will go thru what you cut off and into the remaining stock. you can use dowels and replace the cut off when she grows or if you want to sell it later. Have her shoot the gun at a large paper with a clay bird size mark at about 25 yards so you can see where she is shooting. she has to learn to get her face down on the stock and foreward, both eyes open, and you don't aim a shotgun, you point it. If she is slow taking the shot, she is behind the bird, stopping her swing. she needs to shoot fast, swinging thru the bird and shooting. If, after shortening the stock an inch, when she cheeks the gun, she still sees too much barrel, you can change the pitch by loosening the stock bolt and inserting a thin shim between the stock and the top of the receiver. The first thing is to learn the proper position before you change the stock. another thing, watch the feet position. a right handed shooter can swing left easier than right. If the bird will be going to your right, face more that way. have her shoot some paper so she can see what she is doing.

[waksupi]

I believe I have a book on gun fitting here I could part with. I'd have to check on what I would need for it, let me know.

[fecmech]

A couple of points here. Trap requires a higher comb than a field comb as you are shooting a rising bird and want the bulk of your pattern above the bead. Your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun so face placement is very important. One other thing to consider is recoil. Many 20 ga guns are very light (in the 6 lb. range) and kick worse than the heavier 12's. This is a big factor for a new shooter so if it was me training her the stock fit would be primary along with a good recoil pad such as Kickeze or Limbsaver. I would also consider adding some weight to the gun in the mag tube ahead of the mag spring.

[375RUGER]

Pics of her with the gun mounted from behind, side and front would help a lot.

Just remember, if you do major stock mods, you may be doing it again in a year as she grows.
You might want to look for an adjustable recoil pad. If anything has to be cut off of the stock make sure that whoever does the work has the ability to put it back on later. Yes it can be done.
Check if there is a gunsmith nearby that has a fitting stock.

Do you and her shoulder the gun before the pull? You might want to try a more instinctive approach or snap point. I can't hit anything but air with the shotgun pre-mounted.

You can practice at home. Pick a spot or something on the wall. Snap point your shotgun at the spot. Repeat this procedure 4 or 5 times, now if you have to make any adjustment whatsoever to get on that target, your shotgun stock does not fit you.
This is free practice. You can do this anytime. Do it over and over.

When my boys were about that age, they started with a single shot 20. I had them load up 7/8 oz of shot over green dot. Nice low recoil load, good for beginners who may be sensitive. Eventally one son used that gun and loads to get his shotgun merit badge.

[waksupi]

The method I use for fitting a gun to myself and others, is to have the eyes closed, and throw the gun into shooting position. Open your eyes, and see if you are looking right down the sight plane. Adjust heel or toe from that point, and adjust cast off as you can.

[rtracy2001]

I'll have to work on getting some photos of her.

I have shot the gun several times and I must say the recoil is considerably less than my 12 ga pump (870 express).

I do have a Pachmayr decelerator for shotgun that I could put on there.

I am looking for an inexpensive buttstock that I can hack up and still have the original in case she grows in the future.

So far the nearest gunsmith that anyone has recommended for stock work like this is a 4 hour drive away. I will probably start by shortening the stock by about an inch and see where we go from there.