Dillon SDB for Lee Load-Master?

[500MAG]

I picked up a Dillon SDB set up for 9mm at a pretty good price. I have never used a Dillon press and have been using a Lyman Spar-T and Lee Pro-1000 and occasionally Rock chuckers for over 25 years. I am considering trading the Dillon for a Lee Load-Master. Am I crazy or should I make the extra investment in new dies & conversions for all the calibers I load?[smilie=b:

[Firebricker]

If your going to be switching calibers a lot a Dillion 550 would be a good choice as it uses standard 7/14 dies were the SDB is more of designated caliber or rarely change machine. The LM is also a versatile machine. I had a LM and didn't care for it but many here have got them up and running smooth. So if you did run into any issues with the LM the guys here can help you work the bugs out. Lots of choices out there good luck and let us know what you decide. FB

[220swiftfn]

I'd suggest taking the SDB for a test drive before trading it off..... I have one (with tool heads for 3 calibers, and a second priming system set so switching from large to small is three screws and done) and other than a small working window, I have no complaints. There are many who decide to have multiple presses and leave them set (one for 9mm and another for .45ACP for instance....)

BTW, I can't tell from your post, but you are aware that the SDB is a pistol only press, right? That being said, if you keep your eyes open, you can usually find caliber conversions being sold for @ $50, so that's pretty comparable to setting up standard carbide dies.


Dan

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry but I wouldlnt trade a square deal for TWO loadmasters.

[crabo]

I have two Square Deals and love them. Dillon takes good care of them. I would use it for a while before I traded it off.

[jmorris]

You would be crazy. If you just don't want a SD, sell it. Should be able to get around 80% of current new price.

Then buy a load master and put the rest of the money to good use by giving it to a charity.

[W.R.Buchanan]

+1 on all of these comments.

You need to learn about the machine by using it before you decide. And then you should decide to keep it.

AS far as tooling it up, I'd buy one set of dies for a caliber I use alot and then run it to familiarize myself.

This should be an enjoyable enough experience to convince you that you made the right choice.

If you want more then you'll have to decide to either buy more tooling or buy more SDB's.

I have 2, one set up for .45 ACP, and one set up for .40 S&W.

Randy

[azrednek]

am i crazy ?

yes!!

[UNIQUEDOT]

The loadmaster is a much more versatile press. If you are used to using the Pro 1000 as you stated then you will likely find the sdb to be too slow anyway. I liked the pk1 better than the sdb because it was faster, but neither have the versatility of the loadmaster and bullet placement is perfect on the loadmaster. Since you are already used to the pk1 (the LM isn't that much more difficult to set up) and if you want a much more versatile press i would definitely trade.

[1bluehorse]

If I still owned the three Loadmasters I've had, I'd trade you straight up for all of them....the priming system is a major problem...sell the Square Deal if it doesn't fit, take the money and put it towards something that does...I'd pass on the LM...

[jmorris]

LM. You can get one from Titan Reloading for $214 plus shipping. and you could get $214 for a broken SD. Giving money away, if thats not crazy PM me and I'll give you my address.

[mdi]

My take is Dillon makes progressive presses and accessories for progressive presses. Lee makes everything related to reloading (kinda jack of all trades, master of none. Not Lee bashing, they make a lot of really good equipment). I would go with the manufacturer who specializes in progressive presses; aka Dillon...

[UNIQUEDOT]

Giving money away, if thats not crazy PM me

Have you honestly ever even used both? since i have i consider most of the negativity with the LM to be internet garb, but i guess spreading rumors gives us a chance to add to our post count.

[jmorris]

I have used both the pro and LM and own at least one of every Dillon currently. The negative comments on Lee presses generally comes from those of us that had to tinker with them.

Even if I were happy with the LM I wouldn't trade an SD for one straight up, as everyone knows Dillons are at the top of the resale value list.

[Alvarez Kelly]

jmorris
what the heck are you talking about (giving money away, if thats not crazy PM me and I'll give you my address)? Is that kind of comment really necessary? I own two of the LMs and they work great for me. Sounds like you just could not figure out how set up the LM. I know Dillon is a great press, but they are not perfect. There is another thread on this forum about a primer explosion in the tube feeder. Lee would never stack his primers in a feed tube for that reason. I know there is more Lee haters out there than fans but I will continue to use their products.

I believe jmorris was clear, if you read ALL the posts, that the OP could SELL his used Dillon, buy a brand new Lee press, and still have cash in his pocket... Why trade a Dillon for a used Lee?

FYI, there have been many primer detonations on Lee presses too. Last I knew, you could BUY a primer shield from them. It was not standard. Maybe it is now.

Just to be clear, I own and use a Lee press. I just use my Dillon presses a lot more.

[pistolman44]

I have never used a Dillon but I have 2 Load Masters on my bench. I had them for over10 yrs. and I have one set up for large primmers and the other for small. They work for me.

[220swiftfn]

jmorris
what the heck are you talking about (giving money away, if thats not crazy PM me and I'll give you my address)? Is that kind of comment really necessary? I own two of the LMs and they work great for me. Sounds like you just could not figure out how set up the LM. I know Dillon is a great press, but they are not perfect. There is another thread on this forum about a primer explosion in the tube feeder. Lee would never stack his primers in a feed tube for that reason. I know there is more Lee haters out there than fans but I will continue to use their products.

And yet there was a post about a blown-up Lee priming system in the same thread.....At least on a Dillon there's a shield (there's two tubes, an aluminum one inside a steel with air space in between to contain the majority of the released energy) on the Lee, nothing other than a single layer of plastic.


Dan

[Lloyd Smale]

I sure never felt a need to add to my post count and have NEVER posted anything on here that i didnt believe to be the absolute truth based on MY OWN experience. What ive found to be the nomal with the lee progressive posts is the guys that come running to there defense have either never used anything better or are the type that wont or cant buy real quality presses and want to defend there purchase. ANYONE that has loaded more then 5k of ammo on a lee and a dillon would have to be blind or completely predudice not to admit which was hands down the better press.
Have you honestly ever even used both? since i have i consider most of the negativity with the LM to be internet garb, but i guess spreading rumors gives us a chance to add to our post count.

[jmorris]

You are correct, Jmorris was one of the members sugesting to sell the old Dillon and buy a new LM. I agree I would keep the SD over the LM myself but would suggest a sale over trade, if for some reason someone really wanted a LM.

[UNIQUEDOT]

ANYONE that has loaded more then 5k of ammo on a lee and a dillon would have to be blind or completely predudice not to admit which was hands down the better press.

Maybe if you are talking about the better presses, but the press in question is a SDB and first off anyone who can even load 5000 rounds on that press (even in the span of a weekend) is a superman. It's slow compared to even the pk1 he already has and just as cumbersome to use (bullet placement) and caliber conversions would cost him more than if he just bought an rl550b. The sdb in no way compares to the versatility or speed and convenience of the LM.

[1bluehorse]

Have you honestly ever even used both? since i have i consider most of the negativity with the LM to be internet garb, but i guess spreading rumors gives us a chance to add to our post count.

Lets see, Darwin started the Loadmaster forum Jan. 2008, I joined Jan. 2009. I joined for a reason, the Lee Loadmaster.....that was my second. Sometime in 2010 I purchased a used one (third) from a hammer and chisel type reloader, it was sold to me as "parts only, this thing won't work". I replaced a few parts reworked the priming system using suggested "mods" plus a few of my own. Got both working pretty well. I could somethimes go a thousand rounds or more and not have any issues, sometimes less than a hundred... That forum (as you know cause I see you there occasionally) is rife with priming issues. Look what Magic Mike is doing, reinventing the entire priming system and others can't wait till' he gets it "perfected" so they can buy the parts from him....I've had both good days and bad with the LM, best day was when I gave up on them and sold them both. So yes, I've had experiences with both, and I'll stand by my statement, If I still had all three LM's I'd trade him straight up...whats my post count up to now?[smilie=l:

[UNIQUEDOT]

as you know cause I see you there occasionally

And you have not found me complaining about priming issues either. The press in question here is an SDB not a 550 not a 650 not a lnl and definitely not the ammomasters that you use. The only priming issues i had were with .380 and i assume it was because of media or a dirty system as it went away before i had the chance to identify the cause. Once again if you have ever used a sdb then you know it's slow and difficult to place bullets on.

[Alvarez Kelly]

And you have not found me complaining about priming issues either. The press in question here is an SDB not a 550 not a 650 not a lnl and definitely not the ammomasters that you use. The only priming issues i had were with .380 and i assume it was because of media or a dirty system as it went away before i had the chance to identify the cause. Once again if you have ever used a sdb then you know it's slow and difficult to place bullets on.

I use a Square Deal all the time. I do not have any difficulty placing bullets. I believe what you meant to say is, "Some people may have difficulty setting the bullets on a Square Deal." I might agree that the Square Deal may not be the press for someone with large hands. It is a compact piece of machinery.

[1bluehorse]

And you have not found me complaining about priming issues either. The press in question here is an SDB not a 550 not a 650 not a lnl and definitely not the ammomasters that you use. The only priming issues i had were with .380 and i assume it was because of media or a dirty system as it went away before i had the chance to identify the cause. Once again if you have ever used a sdb then you know it's slow and difficult to place bullets on.

I didn't own the SDB, a friend did, but I have reloaded on it. Yep, it's pretty small, but I found it to be a nice machine. I WANTED to like the LM. It's a simple design, easy to disassemble and clean/work on, fast and comes with the (I think) cool case feeder, dies, and shellplate of your choice. But that priming system...ugh..to many issues... Don't know why but you surprised me knowing about my Ammomasters, :-) I like them, but they're a big, busy machine. Not as fast as most progressives because of the looooong throw, and are far from "perfect", but they are dependable..as far as you complaining, I'v never seen you complain about anything, other than somebody slammin the LM.....:kidding: I guess we got off on a tangent here....:hijack:

[220swiftfn]

I sure never felt a need to add to my post count and have NEVER posted anything on here that i didnt believe to be the absolute truth based on MY OWN experience. What ive found to be the nomal with the lee progressive posts is the guys that come running to there defense have either never used anything better or are the type that wont or cant buy real quality presses and want to defend there purchase. ANYONE that has loaded more then 5k of ammo on a lee and a dillon would have to be blind or completely predudice not to admit which was hands down the better press.

I've worn out a Lee Pro-1000 to the point of it only being good for a dedicated de-primer (universal decapper in station 1, and a turned down bolt in station 2 to open up flattened cases......it works well enough for that...) I still haven't worn out my SDB, so I can't comment on that.......:bigsmyl2:



Dan

[r1kk1]

And yet there was a post about a blown-up Lee priming system in the same thread.....At least on a Dillon there's a shield (there's two tubes, an aluminum one inside a steel with air space in between to contain the majority of the released energy) on the Lee, nothing other than a single layer of plastic.


Dan

+ 1

I think the blast shield for the lee is an option. May not fit everything.

r1kk1

[MBTcustom]

I tell you, Dillon vs, Lee is almost as bad as republican vs democrat!
The truth is, that a progressive on the bench is better than one that is being talked about. The Lee equipment has a flaw in the priming system. You are going to get upside down primers, you are going to get squib loads and you are going to cuss the thing and do some tinkering. All of this is going to happen 1-2% of the time. The rest of the time is going to be smooth sailing huge piles of ammo, and big smiles.
The Dillon is a beast. It is consistent and the priming system never fails. It also holds its value like a lake holds water. On the other hand, everything about a Dillon is painfully expensive! $50 per caliber + the cost of dies. Yeah, once you buy it their no BS warranty really is just that, but shelling out the coin in the first place makes your wallet bleed.
There is no such thing as a Lee that is a plug and play, but we are smart, handy, fellers and we can make stuff work right? I have a buddy across town that has a LM. He has come over to my place and used the Dillon 550 and I have used his LM. He covets the smooth operation, and I covet all the calibers he is set up for.
Its a stalemate, and a Mexican standoff if ever there was one.
Which one is better?
It depends on your personality. If you are willing to pay large for a piece of machinery that does not break and will be instantly replaced if it ever does, while giving you a comfortable experience while you operate it, then Dillon is for you.
If you don't mind tinkering with things and moving at a slightly slower pace to accommodate your machinery, while enjoying the personality of the piece, then Lee is the way you should go.
I think the same idea goes for vehicles. My brother in law drives 15 year old Chevy's and works on them constantly. When they are running, they will out pull, out haul, and outrun my 3 year old, dealer financed, warrantied and insured, 4 cylinder Toyota pickup truck.:mrgreen:
I can tell you this, If I had both on my bench, paid for, set up for a certain caliber, the Lee would gather dust. The money is Dillon's only drawback.
As far as the OP, if I were you, I would sell that SDB and upgrade to the 550. But that's just me. Now that I have used a Dillon, its awful hard to consider anything else, price tag notwithstanding. When it comes to machinery, I never think about how much I paid for it if it does its job flawlessly. If it always breaks, then cost is always on my mind, and I don't like living that way.

[BillP]

A SD for an LM? This is like a Snap On for Harbor Freight trade. My opinion...If you feel lucky and like to take chances go for it. Otherwise there is nothing better than a quality tool on the bench.

[TheDoctor]

I love how a question gets turned into a flame session. I do not believe there is an absolute "best" of anything. Everything is a compromise of sorts. What important is what's best for you. I have Dillons, I like them. I have a LM, I like it. I have several RCBS, I like them too. The only press I own that I don't like is my Pro 1000. And still have it because I might find something I need it for. Does Dillon make a press that's easier to use right out of the box? Yes. Does Dillon make a much more expensive press? Yes. Is it easier, more user friendly, and more accurate to a degree that justifies the multiple times price increase? Only you can answer that one. The LM in MY opinion, and mine only, is an outstanding press for the MONEY it costs. To me, its very easy to set up, operate, and maintain. That's me. I will say that if I shot enough to truly justify getting a 1050, I would, but I do not even come close. But we are not talking about a 650 or 1050, we are talking about a SDB and a LM. I do not think you can truly compare a SDB to ANY of Dillons other presses. Keep the SDB, buy a LM, compare them both yourself. If you like the LM, sell the SDB, and you are ahead of the game.

[r1kk1]

I didn't compromise when I bought my DIllon. I really don't care how much equipment costs. Equipment is a one time charge while components are not. I can't run out and buy 33 Winchester, 38-56, etc effectively. No factory ammo is custom tailored to my firearm. I can build specialty ammo for different things I do. My 190 grain 30-06 loads for big game are excessive for small game. Different story with a cast boolit load and a little unique or 2400. My point is component prices change and getting higher and higher. The amount of money I spent in the late 80s and 90s to acquire a SD and a 550 have been amortized over the years and have complete satisfaction with the tools I bought.

There was no LMs or LnLs back then. RCBS had a piggyback and not sure if the 2000 was even around. I bought the best. I bought once. The SD was a present to me. I do use it but the 550 does everything short of 338 Lapua magnum length cases. I have a CH4d that can handle that job.

Hornady may have a winner but the projector went bye bye years ago. So have many RCBS presses. It makes me tired. I thought the projector was going to do it. Now give the LnL time. I hope it succeeds. Lee had the Load-Fast, it went bye bye. Dillon let the 300 go away and what a truly massive press.

I think I'll go tinker with a load in the reloading room. I'm glad I don't have to tinker with my reloading tool to do a job. The 550 is long paid for itself. The SD paid itself off so long ago. May have Dillon do a quick check up on it. It's been a couple of decades.

Take care

r1kk1

[Lloyd Smale]

As to the sd being slow. I was at my buddys one day and he used one of his 650s with a case feeder to pump out 45acps while i used one of his square deals to do 9mms. Just for grins we did a bit of a speed test. We loaded for two hours. All the primer tubes were filled so all we had to do was dump them in when needed. At the end of the session of 2 hours he was 35 rounds ahead of me. Now ive loaded alot of ammo on square deals so i do have a rhythm down. The shorter stroke of the square deal made up for the case feeder on the 650. I at one time had 5 square deals. I lost them all in the fire i had. I replaced them with three lnls. two with case feeders. I still miss those square deals. I didnt have to do caliber swaps because they were allready set up in calibers i loaded. Most of the time they had primers and powder allready in them and it was just a matter of sticking a piece of brass in it and going. Sure there not a durable as a 650 but in my opinion there every bit as trouble free as my lnls if not more so. Just as fast in the real world as a 650 or 1050 and just a dammed good press. I bought two new and bought the buddys three when he upgraded to all 1050s. Those three i bought probably had a half a millon rounds loaded on them each before i even bought them and i probably put near that myself on them before i torched them. Only downside i see with them is caliber converting and even that is blown way out of proportion. Only diffence is you have to take out a few allen screws instead of a couple pins. It takes about 5 extra minutes at most to do it. I dont think i ever loaded on my old promaster or pro1000s wtihout spending at least that much time in an hour clearing primer problems let alone replace broken parts and ajusting. Buy what you want but Billp hit it on the head. Do you want harbor freight on your bench or snap on!!! Even i have bought a few tools from harbor frieght. Stuff i dont use but maybe once every couple years and couldnt justify buying better. But my presses are used at least weekly. There tools i use not decorations on a bench. In my opinion i made one big mistake after the fire when replaceing my gear. Hornady had that 1000 free bullet deal going and it was hard to justify 650s when with those bullets the hornadys were about half the price. Bottom line is the bullets are all gone and ive got three presses that id trade in a heartbeat for two 650s! I dont want the hornady guys to jump down my throat though. The lnls are decent presses and fairly reliable but there NOT 650s! I enjoy loading. I enjoy sitting down and cranking out a couple thousand trouble free rounds. Even the lnls will occasionaly make me pull my hair out. Many days i tend to just set up my 550 and load on that because theres NO press any more reliable then a 550 and bottom line is I can crank out just about as many rounds and not need a single blood pressure pill at the end of the day! Yes to some extent im a lee basher. But my bashing is only directed at there progressive presses. I thank God for lee actually. they make things that add to my loading pleasure that nobody else makes and some of it is decent stuff.

[Lloyd Smale]

Unidot Ill make this bet. You show up to my house with a brand new loadmaster or pro1000, your choise, in the box. Ill pick up a new square deal. bring along a 10k of brass and bullets. First bet will be to start with the presses in the box set them up and load 5k of ammo. You win and ill give you the square deal. Second bet is to 10k. You win and ill pay your plane fair. You loose you give me the cost of the square deal and you can take your lee press home with you as i sure have no need for it. Only rule is you cant use any tools other then what came with it for assembly. It would be the easiest bet i ever made.

[500MAG]

OK. I didn't mean to start a Lee VS. Dillon war. If you read my original question, you would see that I wasn't asking if the Lee was better than Dillon. I was asking if it was worth paying for all new dies for the SDB Vs. going with a LM. I load 8 pistol calibers, not including 500 mag. That can be pretty expensive. Anyway, I am not new to reloading. I know that Lee has limitations. I have never been happy with the Pro 1000. However, I'm sure there are people not happy with the SDB that love the 550. If it were a 550, I wouldn't be asking the question. Anyway, I am going to make the investment and try the SDB. I do like the fact that I can use the primer system. I never used the primer system on the Pro 1000, it was too much trouble. If it doesn't work out I'm giving up on both and going with the Hornady LNL. Can't we all get along?

[MBTcustom]

Hey Uniquedot, I think you should take Lloyd up on his bet.
Lets load 308Winchester for starters eh?:target_smiley:

Don't worry about it 500mag, heated discussions over Dillon vs. Lee happen all the time, and they pop up whenever the two are mentioned in the same thread. Its just like Chevy vs. Ford at deer camp.
Nothing wrong with a friendly (albeit heated) discussion about which is better. I always end up learning something from folks who care a lot about what they are saying.
Keep it professional and courteous and its all good.
Heck, it was a thread almost exactly like this that convinced me to buy my first progressive press (with a big push from Alvarez Kelly) and I ended up going with a Dillon 550.

[Mike Hughes]

Regarding the bet, why not just let Uniquedot bring his press instead of starting with a new one. Just seems like that would be a better comparison, since we dont start with a new press everytime we reload. Keep in mind that most of us Lee people fly first class and he probably doesn't want your SD anyway. If most of us were not already into our second childhood, I would say this is just plain silly!

[jmorris]

It would be the easiest bet i ever made.Lloyd, I can see we are much alike. Don't mind making a bet as long as the outcome is not a gamble.

[Lloyd Smale]

the reason for the new press is this. first it would show how much easier and faster it is for a new inexperenced loader to set one up and start cranking out quality ammo and secondly it would show that maybe a master mechanic can get one of those lees to run at least half assed but would show the new loader that there sure not that way out of the box. Id about bet id have mine mounted and have 500 rounds out of it before he got the lee tweaked good enough to even make a couple rounds and thats factoring in the fact that hes very experienced with them and all there idiosycrasys. It amazes me that someone would go as far as to say that LEE PEOPLE FLY FIRST CLASS. now im sure a lee press will produce ammo and maybe my bet is a bit far fetched and maybe even childish but it doesnt take a engineer to see which is a better made press. Even a child could tell the differnce. If you feel you have to justify your purchase price so be it. Yes to get a good press you have to spend a bit more money. But like in about everything in the shooting loading and casting hobby you get what you pay for! funny thing is alot of handloaders think its insane to spend 500 bucks on a good press but the same guys dont think twice about buying 500 dollars worth of chrome for there harley or buying some do dad for there truck or a new set of gulf clubs. Me I load and shoot. its my only hobby anymore and im not about to spend my time dealing with inferior stuff unless it means not putting food on my familys table. Bottom line and i say this with all honesty. If i couldnt have a dillon or a hornady id rather load on a single stage or turent press and just shoot less. It would require alot less blood pressure medication. I also get a charge in how some take this so personal. Youd think that badmothing a *** they bought was right up there with bad mouthing there wife or kids. I dont think a single sole on this site really belives a lee press is as good as a dillon. If you do youve just never used both long enough or loaded enough ammo to get an EDUCATED opinion. QUOTE=Mike Hughes;1869651]Regarding the bet, why not just let Uniquedot bring his press instead of starting with a new one. Just seems like that would be a better comparison, since we dont start with a new press everytime we reload. Keep in mind that most of us Lee people fly first class and he probably doesn't want your SD anyway. If most of us were not already into our second childhood, I would say this is just plain silly![/QUOTE]

[MBTcustom]

Relax Lloyd. Cost is a big concern for a lot of folks. I actually agree with you for the most part, and that is why I loaded with a rock chucker exclusively until last year.
Some fellers have to scrape just to get a setup together for single stage reloading.
Its just the facts. There was a time not too long ago, that I would have had to stop shooting and reloading for a year to pull the money together. When you are the sole provider for the family and you make less than $30,000 per year, and you have a 1 year old, you're happy that you bought what you did when you were younger, and were not living check to check. When you are in that situation, your just looking to get out of the stress of life for a few hours and do some shooting. It keeps you sane, but there is no extra money lying around at all, except when the tax return comes in. Then you get a little shot in the arm, but by the time you get done buying the wife some new cloths that she desperately needs, and sending a couple hundred to pay off the credit card, you might only have $200 left to spend on personal stuff.
Dillon has priced themselves out of that market, and Lee offers something that a guy like that can afford. Dang right he'll buy it, he'll tinker with it, and he'll love it. Its not all about quality. Its about how much quality a man can afford. Lee equipment is "junky" but its not "junk". It does 98% of what the Dillon does.
I know lots of first class individuals that use third class equipment.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Hey Uniquedot, I think you should take Lloyd up on his bet.
Lets load 308Winchester for starters eh?

Goodsteel, in this case I'd be willing to bet the farm I'd win :mrgreen:


As far as the Dillon vs Lee progressive thing goes... I don't think i ever said a Lee progressive was better than a Dillon. I think it's pretty much established that Dillon precision makes the best hobby reloading progressives and even a model fit for serious production. What gets me is that some people are so brand loyal that they would deny a fact such as in this case and in this case the LM is clearly the better choice as far as versatility, cost, and ease of caliber changes goes.

[jmorris]

It does 98% of what the Dillon does. I don't think anyone can argue that the Lee can't do anything that the Dillon can, its the speed/lack of malfunctions that come into play.

Understand the cost argument, I have spent the last 27 years gathering the reloading equipment I have now. Funny thing is one of my SD's is that old and is worth more now than the $130 my brother and I paid Dillon for it all thoes years ago. Can't say that about many tools.

[r1kk1]

If comparing LM to 550 then the LM is very limited on the cartridges it can do. The SD is limited to sraight wall. I picked up a 500 S&W barrel and the conversion for the 550. I was surprised that the LM doesn't have this but I bet they would make one special order and that raises the price. It would be a wash cost wise.

Take care

r1kk1

[BillP]

Goodsteel, in this case I'd be willing to bet the farm I'd win :mrgreen:


As far as the Dillon vs Lee progressive thing goes... I don't think i ever said a Lee progressive was better than a Dillon. I think it's pretty much established that Dillon precision makes the best hobby reloading progressives and even a model fit for serious production. What gets me is that some people are so brand loyal that they would deny a fact such as in this case and in this case the LM is clearly the better choice as far as versatility, cost, and ease of caliber changes goes.

No need to think people don't appreciate versatility, cost and ease of caliber changes with the LM. Unfortunately those nice features quickly take a back seat when the hassle factor of the LM is in the calculation. It's the equipment that gave itself a bad rap, not the "brand loyal" folks who choose to buy different colors.


bc

[myfriendis410]

Keep the Dillon and learn to use it. It's the best pistol loader made IMO. I have two. Everything else gets loaded on a Rock Chucker or a Mec shotgun loader in my house.

[UNIQUEDOT]

If comparing LM to 550 then the LM is very limited on the cartridges it can do. The SD is limited to sraight wall. I picked up a 500 S&W barrel and the conversion for the 550. I was surprised that the LM doesn't have this but I bet they would make one special order and that raises the price. It would be a wash cost wise.

Take care

r1kk1

The loadmaster does have a shellplate for the 500 S&W i recently sold my 500 S&W LM shellplate to a guy on the LM video forum. The number is 16L and it cost the same as any other shellplate for the press. The problem is that Lee doesn't list all the available shellplates for the press so you either have to email or call them. It has the same broad range as the 550 does.


It's the equipment that gave itself a bad rap

I agree except knowing what i know about the press in question i would have to say that most of the problems can indeed be found in the equipment in the skull of the person attempting to operate it.

[r1kk1]

The loadmaster does have a shellplate for the 500 S&W i recently sold my 500 S&W LM shellplate to a guy on the LM video forum. The number is 16L and it cost the same as any other shellplate for the press. The problem is that Lee doesn't list all the available shellplates for the press so you either have to email or call them. It has the same broad range as the 550 does.

I will call them on Monday for a list of shellplates. I can compare to the 550 then. I just seen they suspended custom services till the spring of 2013.

Ck this out:

http://www.gatorvalley.com/product.php?productid=37740&cat=&bestseller=Y

Wow.

I'll post what they send me.

r1kk1

[Mike Hughes]

Lioyd, If an occasional simple adjustment would make my blood pressure go up, I would probably just give up reloading altogether. The only progressive press I've used is the LM. I'm sure the dillon is better, but the LM does just fine for me. Unlike you, I have many hobbies but the money is not the reason I prefer Lee products. I have only been reloading for about 10 years. When I got started, I read the Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee. I learned quite a bit and I really like his way of thinking. He likes to take a basic approach with his products and always thinks about holding down the cost, so his products would be affordable for most people. They do not have the lifetime warranty, but their customer service has always been excellent. This Lee vs Dillon thing could drag out forever. I am fixing to load 1000 rounds of 45 acp, after I finish I am going to check my blood pressure, if its elevated I might consider changing presses.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I will call them on Monday for a list of shellplates.

I emailed them and they gave me the order or product number. I think it was $29.00 it's also the one used for 7.62x54R.


after I finish I am going to check my blood pressure

Hmmm... my doc upped my blood pressure meds just last week...wonder if it's caused by that darned LM.

[r1kk1]

I have only been reloading for about 10 years. When I got started, I read the Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee. I learned quite a bit and I really like his way of thinking. He likes to take a basic approach with his products and always thinks about holding down the cost, so his products would be affordable for most people.

Would you say that modern reloading is unbiased? I mean one equipment manufacturer comparing equipment to another. I started before before his books were published and ill look into a plethora of other reloading manuals I have. No didn't see it in those. Hmmmm. The 2nd edition lists a formula for reducing powder charges. I bought the book for that alone. The 1st edition didn't do a thing for me. Some of things he tried and wrote in his book would get people on the Internet seriously flamed.

Wow.

r1kk1

[jmorris]

Keep the Dillon and learn to use it. It's the best pistol loader made IMO. I have two. I have two also but I wouldn't go that far, at the price they get for them today but we are talking about already having one.

[MBTcustom]

Yeah, ya know the only single problem I have with Dillon is that they squeeze the market till it shrieks and set the price $20 higher. Other than that one point, they cannot be beat.
Lee on the other hand has a laundry list of shortcomings about as long as their assets.
Oh well, you pays your money and takes your choice.

[jmorris]

If my name was jdillon I would say the others put themselves out of the market. When a lifetime no BS warranty makes your machines truly life time and worth 80% of the new machines, any and everyday you sell currently, there is only one place to go, up.

Most in the business world will say it has to fail someday. Hell, if the ford T was that way where would we be now?

Seems goofy to me that folks stand in line to get the new Iwhatever because the old "new" is obsolete, to argue the point.

[myfriendis410]

I own two SDB's and keep 'em set up on the bench for the (only) two calibers that I load in pistol anymore. I have loaded a bunch of different calibers in them over the years but have kept the .45 acp and .41 magnum. There is some truth to the press being a bit tight for large handed people. I detest loading 9mm on ANY press and decided long ago I would never load another. The .380? Forget it! I usually sit down and load a bunch of ammunition for one or the other and then shoot that over time. With the .45 it's a couple of thousand rounds after casting and sizing. My SDB easily does 500 per hour. Probably more. The .41 magnum, due to the short handle throw and the longer case is a bit slower and takes more effort. If you are loading a lot of magnum cases you might consider that. I don't really care for the time it takes to change from large to small primer so I bought two, and ended up with both using large. The tool heads are pretty simple as long as you put the dies in right, and the powder measure is a dream to use--accurate to +-.1 gr. in flake or ball powders. Changing powders are fairly easy too.

Those are my impressions from using mine which I have only owned for 20 years with only 50,000 rounds through them. They're also set up right next to my Star luber/sizer..........

[Lloyd Smale]

I never once said a guy cant load quality ammo on a lee progressive. I did it myself for a couple years. I dont want to come off as a snob either as im on a fixed imcome myself and dont have money to throw away. Its probably the main reason that when i do buy something i like to save and buy as good as i possibly can. I also have no doubt that some here have the patients and the expertise to get a lee to run. Problem is most are sold to guys who dont know any better and dont have those skills or like in my case the paitients. As to the price and dillon gouging. Id about bet if you looked at your income 20 years ago and looked at it again today the dillon your buying is probably cheaper today then it ever was. Same goes for lee or any other loading gear. When progressives hit the market they werent big sellars and companys that made them had to make a profit so the markup was bigger. today just about everyone, at least pistol shooters end up with a progressive and thousands are sold.

I dont have stock in dillon. If you really think i care what kind of press someone else uses you in a dream world. I just know what my own experiences were and if i could keep a guy or two from making the same mistakes i did then i did something good. Id like to know the percentage of lee pro 1000s and promasters that ended up being just stepping stones into lnls and dillons like mine were. Id bet more people then me threw away money on them instead of just saving another year and using there single stage until they could afford to buy the dillon or lnl the first time. Bottom line is id like to have guys like unidot living in my area. Theres lots of things i no doubt could con them into to tweaking and improving in my garage!!

[UNIQUEDOT]

Its probably the main reason that when i do buy something i like to save and buy as good as i possibly can.

Well... this makes the most sense of anything else said in the thread. Besides we only live once and we sure can't take the money that we saved by buying cheaper tools with us. Who knows I might even start tossing a few bucks here and there into the piggy bank and finally get that 550 and a few caliber changes I've been wanting for some time now to replace my classic turret.

[Mike Hughes]

Lloyd, I can see that you are very passionate about this hobby, as I am too. I can respect your reasoning and from here on, I am going to stay out of these Lee vs Dillon arguments or anything else that involves any controversy. This forum is the best!

[Lloyd Smale]

youd be making a wize purchase. Ive owned square deals, 550s, lnls, projectors, and have loaded on about every progressive rcbs and dillon made at one time or anohter and theres absoultely no doubt in my mind that if i had to live with a single press to do all my loading it would be a 550. They may not be the fastest but there plenty fast. What they are is hands down the most trouble free progressive (if you can call the a progressive being manualy indexed) press on the market. I think a good part of that comes from the fact they are manual advance presses and theres just alot less to go wrong or need tweaking. Its a press that 95 percent of even the most avid reloaders can pump out all the ammo a guy needs, do it safely and do it without meds!!!
Well... this makes the most sense of anything else said in the thread. Besides we only live once and we sure can't take the money that we saved by buying cheaper tools with us. Who knows I might even start tossing a few bucks here and there into the piggy bank and finally get that 550 and a few caliber changes I've been wanting for some time now to replace my classic turret.

[Firebricker]

Why does Dillion get so much criticism on their prices ? If a RCBS progressive is worth $549 Dillion seems like a pretty good deal. FB

[Lloyd Smale]

I fooled too with a few of the rcbs progressives and to be fair it was quite few years ago. They to required alot of tweaking. They were better built then the lees but still far from trouble free. At least with them though you have one of the BEST customer service depts in the industry backing you. thats one thing about buying dillon, hornady or rcbs. Unlike about anything else you ever buy in your lifetime you get a lifetime warantee. Sure wish i could buy a truck like that!!!

[rbuck351]

I have a half dozen presses on the bench. None are Lee but I do have a Dillon 550b and I will say although it was expensive even 18years ago, it has never given any trouble that a quick cleaning every 1000 rds or so won't fix. I have never loaded with a Lee progressive but as I am a mechanic and tinkerer I would like to try one to see what the fuss is. I am too cheap to buy a new one just to check one out. Is there a Lee hater that has one of there progressivies they want to sell cheap? PM if you have one to get rid of.

[r1kk1]

Unlike about anything else you ever buy in your lifetime you get a lifetime warantee. Sure wish i could buy a truck like that!!!

When we bought our 1 ton dualie King Ranch last summer, it came with a lifetime powertrain warranty that includes injectors from Vernon, TX. Last fall we replaced 8 injectors to a tune of 375.00/injector plus labor! That hurt. It was time for a new truck. So we shall see.

I got my reply back from Lee and will post soon. It will surprise some, not others.

Take care

r1kk1

[jmorris]

When we bought our 1 ton dualie King Ranch last summer, it came with a lifetime powertrain warranty that includes injectors from Vernon, TX. Last fall we replaced 8 injectors to a tune of 375.00/injector plus labor! That hurt. That doesn't sound like a no BS warranty.

The true test would be to see if like a Dillon, 20 years from now and a few hundred thousand rounds/miles its worth 80% of what a new truck costs. We all know that its not worth that 5 years later.

I think the RCBS presses don't get a lot of attention because not many people own them and the ones that do, picked it up to be different and cost wasn't part of the equation. Keeping with the auto theme, kind of like Saab owners.

[r1kk1]

Your right JM. The old truck was expensive to fix and we shall see on the new one if it needs it, ever. You are right that they don't hold value. That's the problem with vehicles.

I think I paid 200+ for my 550 in the late 80s. I guess I'll look to see what they are going for today. I like the tabs on the locator buttons the 1050 uses. I may to make something similar for the 550. Nice to have. I buy conversion plates when a new caliber series hits the market. The prices have gone up over the years. I need to send in the SD for its decade tune up. I have no problem disassembling a 550 to the bare bones once a year for maintenance but the SD is a little more complicated. I like the way I get the press back - looks brand new! Not bad for cost of shipping if I'm not in the Scottsdale area.

Take care

r1kk1

[quasi]

if the Dillon 550 isn't the most tried and proved Progressive press, I do not know what is. I like some of Lee's products, some I do not like.

I am old enough to remember when Lee's only product was the Lee Loader. There was no entry level Presses and dies and powder measures. Lee changed all of that and made getting into reloading a lot easier financially.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats one thing you have to give lee credit for. there equiptment has probably got more people started in loading then even rcbs. the quality might not be top notch but they also have to get credit for some pretty ingenious products at reasonable prices. Lee auto primes, zip trimmers, and lee dies, and lee 6cav molds for some and i could probably come up with a few more that are an excellent value and have added alot of convience to my loading experience over the years. Some will argue but i can buy any die set i want and most of the time for handguns buy lee dies. I like top shelf but when i can buy a set of lee dies for half the price and there just as good I wont throw my money away. My only real complaint with lee stuff is there presses. Especially there progressives. My buddy bought one of those lee starter kits a couple years ago and I wasnt to impressed wiht the single stage press that came with it but it will load ammo just as good as my rockchucker. I loaded a couple years myself on one of the old lee turnents and it was a good handy press. Seermed to be a little stouter and and little less roughly finished then the new single stage my buddy got. I think lee would do well by themselves if they brought out a redesigned progressive. they could even keep there old line for people that just wont or cant pay more but bring a new one to the market that addresses the weakness in those presses. AT LEAST redesign the priming systems on the ones they have and replace a few of the plastic pieces that tend to fail with steal. Major problem with lee is there owner. Ive talked to him years back on a number of occasions and hes an arogant sob. I discussed these presses and he told me there allready the highest quality presses on the market and needed nothing! I also talked to him once back when we were doing all the group buy molds. I told him he ought to work out a deal with the honchos where he could make some of them production molds. He told me his bullet designs were allready vastly superior to anything we were commin up with. I about choked on that response. Everyone else has improved over the years. Rcbs came up with a decent progressive finaly. Hornady changed the projector which wasnt a great press into the lnl which is. Dillon morfed the 300 into the square deal and the 450 into the 550. Why doesnt lee do the same?

[r1kk1]

I emailed them and they gave me the order or product number. I think it was $29.00 it's also the one used for 7.62x54R.

Well here is the email that I received from Lee and it is a two parter:


Here is a list of the Shell Plates we carry and some of the calibers that they can be used for:

Shell Plate #1S 90907:
22 Rem Jet, 256 Win Mag, 38 S&W, 38 Colt NP, 38 Short & Long Colt, 38 Sp/357 Mag

Shell Plate #2L 90908:
44 Auto Mag, 45 ACP, 400 Cor Bon, 45 GAP, 22 BR, 224 Clark, 22/250, 240 Whby Mag, 243 Win, 6mm Norma Mag, 6mm Rem/244 Rem, 6mm/284, 6mm/06, 25/284, 25/06, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 6.5mm/06, 6.5mmx57, 6.5 Carcano, 270 Win, 7mm/08 280 Rem, 7x57 Mauser, 284 Win, 30/06, 7,7 Jap, 8x57 Mauser, 8mm/06, 8mm Mann. Scho., 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, 358 Win

Shell Plate #3L 90909:
22 Savage, 219 Zipper, 25/35, 6.5x55 Mauser, 7.5 Schmidt Reuben, 7.62x53 Mauser, 30 Herrett, 7x30 Waters, 30/30 Win, 300 Savage, 308 Win, 32 Win Spl, 32 Win SL, 375 Win, 38/55 Win 408 Win

Shell Plate #4s 90910:
380 Auto, 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem Mag, 6x47,

Shell Plate #4A 90059:
32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 Short & Long Colt, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Fed Mag, 32 Colt NP

Shell Plate #5L 90911:
455 Webley Mark II, 257 Whby, 303/25, 6.5 Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag, 270 Whby, 7x61 Sharpe, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Whby Mag, 30/40 Krag, 300 H&H, 300 Whby, 300 Win Mag, 308 Norma Mag, 303 British, 8mm Rem Mag, 338 Win Mag, 340 Whby, 35 Win, 350 Rem Mag, 358 Norma Mag, 375 H&H, 375 Whby, 458 Win Mag

Shell Plate #6s 90912:
218 Bee, 25/20, 32/20

Shell Plate #7 90913:
30 M-1 Carbine, 32 ACP

Shell Plate #8L 90914:
33 Win, 348 Win, 40/82, 45/70 Govt

Shell Plate #9L 90915:
41 Mag

Shell Plate #10L 90916:
220 Swift, 225 Win, 6.5 Jap

Shell Plate #11L 90917:
44 Special, 44 Russian, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 50 A&E, 303 Savage, 444 Marlin

Shell Plate #12L 90918:
7.62x39R, 6mm PPC, 22 PPC

Shell Plate #13L no p/n (limited quantity):
45 Auto Rim

Shell Plate #14L 90919:
45 Schofield, 45 Colt, 460 S&W, 38/40 Win, 44/40 Win

Shell Plate #19s 90920:
30 Luger, 30 Mauser, 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 38 ACP, 357 SIG, 40 S&W

Shell Plate #19L 90068:
10mm Auto, 41 A&E

Shell Plate #20 90884:
22 Hornet

Shell Plate #21 LM1182 (limited quantity):
6.8 Rem Spc.

The maximum overall cartridge length that can be reloaded on the Loadmaster is 3.800". You can reload just about any caliber as long as there is a die set and Shell Plate available for it.


Thank You,

Laine
Customer Service

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027
phone: 262-673-3075
fax: 262-673-9273

I then asked about the missing 500 S&W shell plate and I believe I may not have a technician worth his salt. I do NOT dismiss Unique Dot as I have NO reason NOT to believe him (Sorry for the double negative).

No, unfortunately there is not.


Thank You,

Laine
Customer Service

Hmmm. Technicians come and go.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/LM3231.pdf

If you read page 8, it will state that over 125 different cartridge combinations can be loaded. Dillon is over 160 stated on their website. The Dillon 550 pdf has not been updated since 2007.

I know Lee has suspended custom services till Spring 2013. They as well as every reloading company are severely back ordered and trying to meet production. Another election and here we go again.

UniqueDot,

The LM has the length needed for some of the ultra long cartridges but unfortunately don't have shellplates for it. Too bad. Their website needs to include what I received in the email as some of these plates are missing.

I know the XL 650 is not as versatile as the 550 as some of the cartridges are not listed there. Not picking on the 650 by any means. The LNL seems very versatile and I may shoot them an email this week about the same criteria as what I sent Lee. I wished the BFR could has an adapter of sorts to use my 550 shell plates. It would seriously rock, at least for me.

It took a while to post this.

take care,

r1kk1

[UNIQUEDOT]

I believe I may not have a technician worth his salt.

This is most likely the case as i have emailed back and forth with some of Lee's CS reps. on more than one occasion where it turned out that i knew more about their products than they did. If you email and ask for a shellplate chart you are just going to get the standard chart. The shellplates that they do not list in the chart are called special order shellplates, but they cost the same as standard shellplates.

When ordering special order plates you look at their standard shellholder chart and order from that rather than from the shellplate chart and the L or S you tack on the end of the number is for L or S primer. There is also custom shellplates, but i wouldn't pay to have one made.

Call Lee and tell them you want to purchase a #16L shellplate for the loadmaster. There should be no need to even state caliber, but it is for 7.62x54R/500 S&W. Again the price is the same as any other shellplate for the 16L.


Here is a link to the thread where i sold mine.

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1484


Here's a link to a thread where it was discussed.

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1483

[r1kk1]

I'll send you an email for the updated list. I wish they had a file section to where fellows could post helpful stuff like this.

The one I have for the 550 handles the ultra magnums as well as 500 S&W for what I bought it for.

Thanks UniqueDot,

r1kk1

[ronbo40s&w]

I bought a Loadmaster because I was an experienced rifle reloader who was given a pistol by my awesome son. It was obvious after one range session that a set of dies and my single stage press wasn't going to keep up. I just happened to get a partial bonus at work that was enough for the lee and not enough for the dillon. My decision was that simple.

When i got the box, i found lee's weak link...technical writing. As an academic curriculum developer in my last 2 years in the USAF, working with defense contractors etc, i saw the achilles heel of the loadmaster immediately. It's the instructions. They are poor. It took me 1 1/2 hours of great care to make round number 1, including fully setting up the machine. 15 minutes later i had 50 rounds made and was staring at the piled up ammo in the little red box. So I took a break and did quality checks on every round. Nice ammo. I had truly lost track of how many rounds, but had diligently checked every 10th or so for powder weight, saw every load before seating a bullet and watched the primers slide down on every turn of the turret. Good machine, bad instructions. With lube and careful setup, a mechanically-minded person will do well. otherwise...I would get the dillon if I could afford it. I can't. I am happy with my loadmaster, but i have put in my time. I get that. I have made no effort at speed and have made 22 rounds in 5 minutes (actual tube capacity for 40 cal...not 25 like i thought)several times while i wait for commercials between two tv shows....just run in there and load a few after loading the machine earlier. that's not blistering speed, but it is convenient and fast enough for me.

God Bless!

Ron

[ronbo40s&w]

During setup, yes, I crushed 2 primers. Yes, I overbelled a couple of brass. Yes I made two dummy rounds that were too short. When I figured out how progressive presses work and made adjustments with the other processes occuring, I ended up with consistent ammo..particularly on the OAL. that's where the hour and a half went...assembly was a snap.

God Bless!

Ron

[Tazman1602]

sorry but I wouldlnt trade a square deal for TWO loadmasters.

DITTO!

Art

[ronbo40s&w]

I don't have one to trade, but i think I might do that one..two presses could have some perks. Not that this scenario could ever apply to me...lol. I dream of one of those loading benches in the pictures with presses lining the front edge and one of everything else along the wall.