One Lube To Rule Them All...

[ArrowJ]

I realize there must be as many "best lubes" as there are reloaders, but what I am really looking for is two things. First, is there a go to lube recipe that most casters would rely on if they could only have one? Second, am I going to have to come up with more than one lube recipe or is there such a thing as a one stop lube that will work generally well for all calibers and alloys and speeds?

[waksupi]

Felix Lube is a do-all for me. The recipe is on the board.

[.30/30 Guy]

You need to take a couple of days and read "Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest....

Until then Felix Lube is the best I have used.

[btroj]

You will search long and hard to beat Felix lube.

[ArrowJ]

You need to take a couple of days and read "Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest....

Until then Felix Lube is the best I have used.

Is that a thread? I will search and read it. Thanks.

[geargnasher]

Both are "sticky" threads above. Depending on your climate and temp swings, Felix lube can certainly be a do-all. I keep a summer and winter version in my lube/sizers, even through nearly a year of hard testing of other lubes. If I want it to just work, period, I choose Felix lube adjusted to my application because I have a lot of experience with it and know just what it does in my guns.

Gear

[runfiverun]

my go to lube is closer to... ben's red.

although made differently and with some ingredient's not available to the general public.
even my complex moly has stuff that's prohibitivly expensive just because of the quantity needed to be purchased.

so for easily obtained ingredients and easily made lube [if you can follow directions] the felix or bens would be the simplest routes other than just buying some from white label lubes and modifying it.

[ArrowJ]

I started reading both threads. Is there anyone that sells Felix? It seems a little more involved than what I want to mess with. I was hoping for something easy like the petroleum jelly, wax, STP, crayon stuff in a lot of the YouTube videos ;)


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[btroj]

Felix is a bit time consuming to make but isn't difficult at all. It is also well worth the effort.

You need to also decide what you want, easy to make or a good all around lube.

[357maximum]

I could very easily spend the rest of my days using only MML. In fact I likely will do just that unless my zipcode changes significantly.

3LB beeswax
1lb paraffin
1- 14 ounce tube of mag 1 brown lithium grease
1/2 lb microwax #430 from blendedwaxes.com

If I could not get the microwax for some reason a simple mix of 60 to75% beeswax and 25 to 40% brown lithium grease would get me by without too much drama. The first guy that mixed beeswax/lithi grease had a pretty good thing going. Lithibee made in proportions to match the season at your location would do 99% of what you need to do. The micro/parraffin waxes in MML are only there for the purpose of eliminating/lesseing the first shot flyer in the cold syndrome AT MY LOCATION.

Both MML (my baby) and Ben's Red (Ben's baby)are merely attempts by their makers to make the old standyby Lithi/Bee recipe their own and slightly tweaked to their makers needs/wants/desires.

Lithi-Bee is the closest thing I have seen to an "easy" lube that works 99.99% of the time. Just make sure you mix it somewhere besides the brides kitchen. It stinks when being made especially if you use the red racing grease in Ben's Red. The simple brown lithium grease still stinks when hot, but not nearly as bad as the complex red racing grease. If you make the brides kitchen smell like an engine fire there will surely be H*LL to pay....trust me on that one. :o

[btroj]

I have never made MMl but do have some I bout from the originator. It has served my purposes quite well. It currently is in my Star and has been used to lube many bullets. No complaints.

[geargnasher]

Good, Cheap, or Fast. Pick two!

Gear

[ArrowJ]

I am working my way through these threads, but there is so much info. So far I have seen the Felix formula twice referring to the beeswax as "a piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1".

Has anyone presented this ingredient as a more specific measurement?


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[geargnasher]

About seven ounces, dry weight.

Gear

[ArrowJ]

About seven ounces, dry weight.

Gear

I guess that is "about" more specific ;) I am just ribbing you. I am a little anal about such things, but if it has to be about seven ounces so be it. I will just pretend it has to be exactly seven ounces :)

I will probably try the more simple stuff too and see if it works good for my use case. I will be shooting 357 Sig and 45-70 to start out. I am in Illinoguns so the temps can fluctuate a lot though.


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[fryboy]

eh i prefer mine at 8 oz but i have brutal hot summer temps , it's fairly forgiving ( a good thing :P )

[izzyjoe]

i like ol' 411 lube, 4 parts bwax, 1 part red grease, 1 part ATF. a person can mix different kinds of grease, but mystic JT-6 works good for me. i got this one from Junior.

[357maximum]

i like ol' 411 lube, 4 parts bwax, 1 part red grease, 1 part ATF. a person can mix different kinds of grease, but mystic JT-6 works good for me. i got this one from Junior.

See...there are many versions of the lithi-bee theme. Sorry Junior I forgot about your Pinko-Commie-*** lube....my bad. [smilie=l:


Lithi-bee is thee best place to start with lube alchemy in my opinion. I started with a lithi-bee based lube and 5 years and $600 dollars in expensive essential oils/ petro oils/waxes and such basically came full circle. There is no better place to start than modifying lithi-bee and I will stick to that opinion. No offence to Felix but castor oil lubes work but do weird things when he temps hit the teens...just something to think about. A tweaked lithi-bee lube can be suited to match any location.

[geargnasher]

I guess that is "about" more specific ;) I am just ribbing you. I am a little anal about such things, but if it has to be about seven ounces so be it. I will just pretend it has to be exactly seven ounces :)

I will probably try the more simple stuff too and see if it works good for my use case. I will be shooting 357 Sig and 45-70 to start out. I am in Illinoguns so the temps can fluctuate a lot though.


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

If you'll tell me the exact SG of the beeswax you intend to use, and I'll tell you how many ounces :D Exact is relative here, It's actually a hair over seven ounces, but it's easier to add beeswax to make the lube more stiff than to go the other way around.

One other note here, with regard to what 357Max said, many people don't realize that Felix lube is a grease/wax lube also, only sodium stearate is the thickener of the oils instead of lithium stearate or 12-hydroxystearate. So I'd put it in the same class of grease lubes, but you get to actually make the grease too. I'm finding sodium greases to be much less thixotropic than lithium-based greases, and the sodium stuff holds up way better in the heat without trememdous modification every 30 degrees like Lithi-Bee lubes.

Gear

[sagamore-one]

Zambini Red........ Have used over 200 sticks over the last several years on everything from 32 acp to full throttle 35 Whelen. It just plain works. And it won't melt out of the grooves at Indiana climate temperatures. When I heard that they were not going to make any more I bought 2 more cases of 100 sticks. When that is gone...?

[357maximum]

Simple answer to be distilled from all of this:

LithiBee modified to suit your needs if you live in a tolerable climate.

Sodi-bee if you happen to live closer to the gates of hell.[smilie=l:


Problem solved. :redneck:

[geargnasher]

:bigsmyl2:

Gear

[frnkeore]

I'm a BW/Lith advocate for higher velocitys. I started with 50/50 as suggested by a friend in the '80's. I didn't like it because it was TO soft. I cut that to 30% lithium and it's much better. I did testing with about six lubes, the 70/30 was best at 1800 fps> and Darr lube (50/50 BW Vas with table spoon of STP or RCBS case lube) the best for me at my velocity of 1400/1500 fps at temps <85 deg. I now use Smilley lube (30/70 BW Alox) because it's not temp sensitive. I tested Emmert, also but, it didn't fair as well as Darr (my accuracy standard) but, this witnessed .512, 200 yard 10 shot group was shot with Emmert a few months ago by the ASSRA/ISSA & CBA, Modesto match director.

I'm cheap and lazy when it comes to bullet lubes and after reading the recipe for Felix, I don't believe I have the time or energy to make it, although I would like to try it.

Emmert is the most complicated lube I've used and getting the lithium to mix in the BW/Lith is the hardest. I take this back, I just remembered a hi-temp lube that I made using a soap and I think it surpases both.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_88525068b61b5d8de.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6876)

[robroy]

For what it's worth, my micro 430 arrived today and my bee's wax yesterday. The parrifin and lith grease are in the garage. I just have my doubts about making a full batch to start with.

Also how does MML do for panlubing?

[btroj]

I have never pan lubed with MML but it gets hard enough that it should work alright.

Let us know.

[Marlin Junky]

Both are "sticky" threads above. Depending on your climate and temp swings, Felix lube can certainly be a do-all. I keep a summer and winter version in my lube/sizers, even through nearly a year of hard testing of other lubes. If I want it to just work, period, I choose Felix lube adjusted to my application because I have a lot of experience with it and know just what it does in my guns.

Gear

Gear,

Are you using Anhydrous Lanolin in your Felix Lubes?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Sodi-bee if you happen to live closer to the gates of hell.[smilie=l:


Problem solved. :redneck:

Mike, Sodi-bee? I need to get out more... what the heck is Sodi-bee?

MJ

[btroj]

He was referring to Gear's comment about how ilium grease lubes behave in extreme heat. Sodium grease lubes tend to handle the heat better.

MML was designed to handle cold, Gear chooses to live just north of Hades and inks 75 degrees is cold.

[runfiverun]

even though it's labeled anhydrous it still has a water content.
i'm pretty sure gear uses carnuba to make his sumer blend.

the lith greases do have an upper limit of between 95-100-f before they need further modification.
and a lower limit in the 30's before they need modification for the cold.

[Jailer]

For what it's worth, my micro 430 arrived today and my bee's wax yesterday. The parrifin and lith grease are in the garage. I just have my doubts about making a full batch to start with.

Also how does MML do for panlubing?

I made my first batch a month or so ago and like you I didn't want to go with a large batch my first attempt. I went half on all ingredients and it seemed to turn out fine and shoots good.

I pan lube mine with a cake cutter.

[robroy]

thanks Jailer

[Lloyd Smale]

Probably my most used lube is a mixture of 2/3s felix lube and 1/3 magma hard blue. It lubes well at pistol and rilfe velocitys and is easier to handle and store bullets long term then straight felix. Im sure you could do the same thing by adding some paraphin to felix to harden it a bit but i guess my thoughts are if im going to add something to stiffin it its better to stiffin it with something that is at least a lube itself

[cajun shooter]

Asking such a question will bring as many answers as they have different names of lubes. The reason being to make it simple, there are many types of shooting in our chosen sport of shooting guns of all types and for different reasons.
A strict handgun shooter who shoots nothing but 45 ACP at paper does not need to use Felix lube. You have dozens of choices and each one would serve you well.
This has been hashed over hundreds of times on this forum. Do yourself a favor and do a lube search. The results will give you days of reading.
To receive a more correct answer there are many variables that you the shooter have to fill in on the blanks.
Type of gun, normal range of loads used, for what purpose, type of bullets used and the list is just as endless as the possible answers.
Your question is asked by all shooters who come to this forum and find all the different lubes and are in awe of the choices. They then try to cut that down by asking which is best and the correct answer is that they all are if used in the proper setting they were intended for.
I shoot nothing but black powder and Felix lube would do nothing but give me a huge headache of gun scrubbing and a target with no hits.
The correct lube is not just for getting that bullet down the barrel but has a great deal to do with the results you see down range.
You may end up with using as many lubes as five or six maybe more or just that one magical lube you are seeking to find.
I did not even read what caliber or type of guns you are shooting in your OP, so how you received any answers is beyond me. It takes time and research.

[geargnasher]

75 IS jacket weather to me. The sort of Lanolin I use for Felix lube is considered "anhydrous" but has a significant water content I'm sure, probably in the 10-25% range. It makes no difference to the lube for smokeless powder, and I think has at least a psychological advantage for black powder recipes containing lanolin since a certain water content is wanted there.

I do use two teaspoons per pound of Felix lube for summer, but found that deleting it reduced the cold-barrel flyer problem. Adding two tablespoons per pound of Vaseline also improves the cold-weather formula that I make.

Gear

[leftiye]

If you'll tell me the exact SG of the beeswax you intend to use, and I'll tell you how many ounces :D Exact is relative here, It's actually a hair over seven ounces, but it's easier to add beeswax to make the lube more stiff than to go the other way around.

One other note here, with regard to what 357Max said, many people don't realize that Felix lube is a grease/wax lube also, only sodium stearate is the thickener of the oils instead of lithium stearate or 12-hydroxystearate. So I'd put it in the same class of grease lubes, but you get to actually make the grease too. I'm finding sodium greases to be much less thixotropic than lithium-based greases, and the sodium stuff holds up way better in the heat without trememdous modification every 30 degrees like Lithi-Bee lubes.

Gear

Are there any sodium stearate greases that are obtainable by the public (us) that we could use in any/either of these formulas?

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir, Gear--anything below 85* here means the parkas start coming out. Not on me, but the long-term locals are conditioned this way. It's just how it is in The Desert. "Just north of Hades", indeed--we're about 150 miles N of Los Angeles, which isn't nearly far enough away--but it will do for now.

I'm not a lube maker, and until I got the screwy notion to exceed 1800 FPS in my rifle loads......good old NRA 50/50 Alox/beeswax worked great for my uses. I've likely complicated by hobby life GREATLY by choosing The Path Of High Velocity, complete with digital scale and a harder/more velocity-friendly lube in a second sizer (White Label Carnauba Red). It was time to go forward.....my favored lube maker (Javelina) is out of business now, and I prefer to shop with board members whenever possible. Glenn's service was timely, and his products have a sterling reputation. His X-Lox will replace the Java in my 450 for handgun and less strenuous rifle loads, and the CR will get some trials for the fast-steppers.

[leftiye]

I grwe up 40 miles east of San Francisco. 120 degrees happened. 115 degrees happened a lot.

[Dale53]

I no longer make lubes. My shooting these days is strictly handguns. I use Lars White Label Carnauba Red exclusively. I have a heater, so that's no problem. If I didn't have an adjustable heater for my luber (Star) I would use one of Lars' softer lubes.

At his price and quality, I have lost all interest in making my own lube.

The only exception to that is my recent foray into a bit of tumble lubing using Recluses' 45-45-10 tumble lube.

Dale53

[felix]

Ian's idea of using vaseline in winter over lanolin is to lower the lube total viscosity to better match the weather characteristics. It's too bad we as a team have not discovered, as of yet, a spreader-sticker to provide a lube with a next to zero viscosity against any kind of steel, and with a relatively high viscosity against our non-ferrous stuff, both at the same time at any velocity. ... felix

[runfiverun]

i'd settle for the "at the same time" part, i could work with the rest.

[9.3X62AL]

I grwe up 40 miles east of San Francisco. 120 degrees happened. 115 degrees happened a lot.

Yessir--same for me, 60 mi. E of L.A. I think you had us beat on humidity, though. (My Mom grew up in Martinez, I've seen East Bay summers).

[Jerry11826]

If you only cast for handguns, which is me, you can't beat ALOX / XLOX! Inexpensive, easy to apply and works! Get the XLOX from White Label Lubes. A few quarts will probably last many years.

[MBTcustom]

I use Felix. Its a pain in the but to make, its sticky as sin, it's not very pretty, but it just plain works. My first batch, I made with bag-balm which is about 50/50 lanolin and Vaseline. It worked great in 106 degree temperatures, and it seemed to work well in lower temperatures as well.
It doesn't leave crud in your barrel, and wipes clean. I have pushed boolits to 2500FPS with felix and I also use it with my GG 45ACP boolits.

I'm sure I have not tested it as much as Gear or Felix, but I sure have used it a lot in the past two years, and I can't find a store boughten lube that touches it.
I don't like how much time it takes to make, but I sure am hooked on it.
I'm staying put.

[runfiverun]

just make up a big batch of the oils and ivory and store it in a mason jar.
then all you have to do is melt the wax and add the pre-made.
a quart of the base will do like three kajillion boolits.

[Blammer]

for me it's speed green.

two ingredients and works for all of my needs.

[Bullshop]

I second the speed green.

[357maximum]

I have no clue how you all live in that infernal heat. I was in Cocoa Beach Florida in December of 1994 and it was 40-43 degrees out and I was comfortably swimming in the ocean.....them freaks that were strolling the beach with parkas on actually thought I was the silly one. WTH is wrong with some people?:-P I bet a dip into Lake Superior at anytime would kill most of ya'all stone dead. Anytime it gets much above 80-85 here I wanna crawl into a hole and die so I guess we all have our weaknesses.[smilie=l:

[Eutectic]

I have no clue how you all live in that infernal heat. I was in Cocoa Beach Florida in December of 1994 and it was 40-43 degrees out and I was comfortably swimming in the ocean.....them freaks that were strolling the beach with parkas on actually thought I was the silly one. WTH is wrong with some people?:-P I bet a dip into Lake Superior at anytime would kill most of ya'all stone dead. Anytime it gets much above 80-85 here I wanna crawl into a hole and die so I guess we all have our weaknesses.[smilie=l:

I think your logic is almost spot on 357max... I can't believe you haven't got any comments... I wouldn't change a thing other than the lake.... I would much rather walk on the lake than go into it! 80 to 85 is plenty hot too.

Eutectic

[btroj]

Yeah, don't move to Nebraska. We can get 100 degree heat with humidity to spare and then see a winter where it can go sub zero.

I am more likely to shoot in 90 degree weather than I am below 30, the fingers just don't care for the cold.

[randyrat]

Beeswax, Olive oil, Lard and a bit of Lanolin will cover any caliber black or smokeless powder..I didn't say it would handle 3000ft/sec............ but with the right load you could use it with anything. The all gun, all caliber and all powder lube.
To top it off the recipe is older than the hills. The ingredients stay the same but the recipe mix changes with the weather.

I swam in Lake superior late this summer. Thank God it was at least 80 Degs F that day. The white caps were big and there was a strong Nor West. Standing waist deep, the white caps would almost knock me over. Good thing about the big lake NO SHARKS and all fresh water. I could see big boats and sale boats disappear in the horizon. I was surprised the temp of the water was not too bad. Normally it takes all summer for that water to warm enough to swim.

[geargnasher]

Ian's idea of using vaseline in winter over lanolin is to lower the lube total viscosity to better match the weather characteristics. It's too bad we as a team have not discovered, as of yet, a spreader-sticker to provide a lube with a next to zero viscosity against any kind of steel, and with a relatively high viscosity against our non-ferrous stuff, both at the same time at any velocity. ... felix

Ya, Vaseline is good for lowering viscosity without over-slickifying the stuff. Polybutene is showing some serious promise as a spreader-sticker....when combined with plasticized wax and sodium stearate.....

Gear