Long range cast boolits

[Lefty SRH]

I was talking to a friend today about an Elk trip he and some other buddies are taking next week. I asked him if he had decided on which rifle he was going to take. He said he was taking his Remmy 700 in 7mm RUM. I asked him why a RUM, he said the shot can range 100-700yds. He then asked me if cast boolits would take RUM velocities and what boolit would be accurate and kill out to 700yds. I didn't know what to tell him other than I'm still learning about rifle casting.

SO, is there a boolit design out there that will go the distance? AND what alloy (if any) will put up with the pressures and the velocity of the ultra mags?

[sixshot]

You will get some interesting replies on this one! Of course a cast bullet will shoot that far but in the smaller calibers the results on elk at those kinds of ranges will probably be quite disappointing. If you heat treat a cast bullet you can run upwards of 30 BHN, using a cast bullet you can get some pretty decent velocity but a jacketed bullet in a 7mm at long range would work so much better. So, yes it will work & there are much better options on elk size game.

Dick

[dk17hmr]

Plenty of cast bullets will go that far and be effective on animals.....they arent 7mm calibers though. 45's and 50's would and have enough left to kill something.

Cast bullets at full speed 7mm RUM wouldnt like make it 100 yards so 700 yards is out of the question. I have shot some 200gr 30 calibers at 1800fps and dropped them in on a 30x30" plate at 800 yards, I am sure you could do it with a 7mm also but I wouldnt think about shooting at a game animal with them.....jacketed high BC bullets is a different story.

[NSP64]

With careful powder selection,paper patching, and load developement he might get close to jax performance.
Terminal performance would not be there.
If I were using cast it would be in a larger long range caliber.

[btroj]

It is possible.

Buy a good quality black powder cartridge rifle, most likely in 45-90. Get a good mould, learn to cast very good bullets. Spend a larg amount of time learning to shoot it with a proper long range peep sight.

Not sure where to find all this stuff? You are now going to be heavily involved in black powder caetidge rifle silhouette. Those are the guys with the knowledge and skills to do what you are speaking of.

Much past 300 yards it is going to quickly become as much a matter of your ability to shoot, read wind, and load good ammo, as much as the rifle and the bullet.

[Lefty SRH]

With careful powder selection,paper patching, and load developement he might get close to jax performance.
Terminal performance would not be there.
If I were using cast it would be in a larger long range caliber.

What larger, long range caliber (for cast) would you choose?

[I'll Make Mine]

I'd suggest you'll do as well with higher velocities in a mid-range bore size -- say, around .35 caliber, as with .350 Win Mag or something similar -- as with the rainbow trajectory of the .45 and .50 cartridges originally designed for black powder. With paper patching (and considerable experience, apparently) you can get velocities up to around 3000 ft/s, which will do two things in a .35 bore: punish heck out of your shoulder (boolit weights up to 270 grains at that speed will add up to major recoil), and reach out to half a mile without much difficulty. Get a boolit shape that will hold its speed (which might involve a custom mold), a smart phone with a ballistic computation app, and a laser rangefinder, plus the experience to judge and compensate wind, and you can pretty much hit what you like out to where your groups get too big.

From my reading to date, there's some esoterica in getting loads that will perform well at those speeds behind a paper patched boolit, but it's definitely possible. Whether the resulting loads are practical to carry on a hunt (as opposed to requiring breech seating the boolit before loading the cartridge -- not very practical when you're trying to use a tree branch as a rest) is a matter of development and your rifle (magazine long enough to allow seating bullets to contact rifling, for instance).

[**oneshot**]

Check out the BPCR shooting sites. These guys send lots of lead at long range and know what to do to make that happen.

[longbow]

Many guns are capable of delivering the accuracy and energy required to do the job at 700 yards, not many hunters I know are capable of holding accurately enough.

As mentioned, big bore cast boolits will certainly shoot that far and carry enough oomph to do the job but the rainbow trajectory requires exceptional skill at range estimation and any wind has to be taken into account as it can easily move a good shot out of the kill zone.

If the gun is capable of MOA accuracy and the hunter can hold it that accurately, which is doubtful in field conditions, you are looking at 7" groups at 700 yards. Then there is a range estimation issue, wind and atmospheric conditions.

Personally I do not think shots at big game should be taken beyond 300 to 400 yards max.
I have heard too many stories of wounded animals and multiple shots required to kill them at extreme ranges.

My $0.02 worth anyway.

Longbow

[btroj]

What larger, long range caliber (for cast) would you choose?

I don't shoot BPcR so I won't suggest a cartridge. I do know that if I wanted to shoot cast at long ranges I would speak to the guys who do it regularly. 500 meters on the rams takes some good accuracy and wind reading ability.

As for paper patch in a smaller diameter, it might work. Biggest advantage to a big, heavy slug is thatit will always give good terminal ballistics. A 550 gr 45 cal bullet is hard to argue with when it comes to penetration.

[runfiverun]

ummm pdawg shooter shoots his 300 rum at jaxketed velocity's.
the 7mm isn't where i'd personally wanna start doing that though.
if you want full throttle, paper patching is where i'd look.

nevermind what i think about 700 yd shooting at animals.

[Larry Gibson]

In the 700 RUM?

Only if you PP'd and then maybe considering 700 yards.....maybe? Terminal effect at longer range with cast is not where I'd want to be either, as runfiverun mentions.

Best to stick with a bullet the cartridge was intended for for that purpose.

Larry Gibson

[garym1a2]

I do not think I would try a 700 yard shoot on an animal, even with a 338 lapur and a .5 inch rifle. The animals deserve better.

[M-Tecs]

SO, is there a boolit design out there that will go the distance? AND what alloy (if any) will put up with the pressures and the velocity of the ultra mags?

Simply answer for the 7mm Rum is NO. Yes, there are bullet designs that will go the distance and alloys that will marginally put up with the pressures and the velocity of the ultra mags. but most suitable alloys will not expand and they will shatter if they hit a heavy bone. With paper patch you could go to a softer alloy but then bullet slump will be a problem.

Even with the long range BPCR cartridges with smokeless powder in the 45 and 50 caliber class you are basically looking are a 458 Winchester Mag. The 458 is not generally viewed as a long range hunting cartridge. Trajectory and wind drift makes an ethical three hundred yard shot very difficult.

I shoot both NRA High Power and BPCR out to a thousand yards competitively and I somewhat understand the trajectory and wind drift challenges of hitting an elk at 700 yards.

The Buffalo hunters shot a lot further but they didn’t care how many they crippled and generally rode up as close as they could and started shooting until the herd moved out of range.

It’s not my place to tell someone that they are shooting to far but the question I would asked is at what distance can you hit a 12 inch circle on the first shot every time under hunting conditions? For elk 12 inches is a realistic kill zone and for deer 9 inches is a realistic kill zone.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Lefty, I would tell your buddy with The Mag that yes you can kill large animals at long range...with a45/70 , 45-90, 45-110etc. but unless you are wiling to do a lot of shooting and learn a new approach to long range shooting... He is best served with is J bullet and Mag thunderstick:groner:

Good casting... lots of info in the STICKY's:castmine:

[Lefty SRH]

Thanks alot for the good info and suggestions. I really didn't know what to tell him about what alloy would hold up to RUM punishment. He's not exactly into casting but it did come up in conversation. I'll pass the inof to him, thanks.