old load data and powder.

[adrians]

Hi y'all,
I was thumbing through a couple of old Ideal manuals the one i was looking at is a 1936 #32, anyway most if not all of the powders mentioned ( i was looking for Krag 30-40 info) are all completely alien to me.
I recognise the 2400 ,even though that's not the same powder nowadays or so i hear, and a couple of others,,,,,so my question for y'all is,,,,,

Is there a chart or table listing these old and obsolete powders and today's equivalents, or ( "close enoughs")?
Just thought i'd ask..:popcorn:

click pic to veiw

[Mooseman]

I advise you to gather data from several sources and compare the old vs newest data to arrive at a starting point for a load.
Cartridges of the World can be an excellent reference.

Rich

[adrians]

Rich, i have cotw and various other more up to date manuals and i use them all,
I was just thinking out loud i quess, i am cuious to know if these older powders were simlpy discontinued or developed over the years and given "new' names.

Me and thinking just don't mix well :bigsmyl2:

[.22-10-45]

Rich, i have cotw and various other more up to date manuals and i use them all,
I was just thinking out loud i quess, i am cuious to know if these older powders were simlpy discontinued or developed over the years and given "new' names.

Me and thinking just don't mix well :bigsmyl2:

Interesting question. adrians. You will notice a 17 1/2 powder listed. There were several of these "1/2" powders..it indicates tin was added to reduce metal fouling... The new Hodgdon CFE 223 comes to mind.

[frnkeore]

Three of the powders are pretty close, close enough that you can use the same start loads, that is reduce 10%.

If you compare the 17 1/2 loads to 4064 loads, you'll find a close relationship, though 4064 has no tin.

Hi-Vel No.2 runs right at 3031 pressure and velocity, you can in most cartridges, use 1 more gr 3031 at the top end. Here you can compare modern 3031 data to the Hi-vel2 data listed.

#80 replaced 4759 and 4759 can usually be used 1 to 1 with #80 data but, be careful as you go up.

It's said that Lightning is very close to the same burn rate as 4198 but, I can not tell you if the powder charge wt can be used the same.

I have no info on Pyro DG or Sharpshooter.

Frank

[Mooseman]

Sharpshooter was a flake powder introduced by Laflin & Rand in 1897 to replace black powder for loading the .45-70. Black flakes containing 15 to 18 percent nitroglycerin[10] were approximately 2 mm in diameter. Production was discontinued after World War II

Lightning was introduced by Laflin & Rand in 1899 for lever action sporting rifles like the .30-30 Winchester and .303 Savage. Production of 2 mm diameter flakes was discontinued after World War II. Tubular Lightning # 2 was manufactured from 1903 to 1929.

Hercules # 308 was Hercules production of single-base tubular Pyro DG (Diphenylamine Graphited) powder for loading military .30-06 Springfield ammunition through World War I. Production began in 1915 and continued through the 1920s.

[adrians]

Thanks for the info gentlemen,
Very interesting how older obsolete powders become something i can recognise today.
My curiosity has been put to rest on most of these oldies.

Adrian.:bigsmyl2:

[Rocky Raab]

Old data like that is useful ONLY if you happen to come across a supply of viable powder from that era. Using old data with new powder or vice versa is asking for trouble. Except for that one usage, that old data is good for interesting reading, no more.

[adrians]

Old data like that is useful ONLY if you happen to come across a supply of viable powder from that era. Using old data with new powder or vice versa is asking for trouble. Except for that one usage, that old data is good for interesting reading, no more.

I agree.
I don't intend to use any of the data , like you say just "interesting reading", i'll stick to more modern resources .

Just curious that all.:grin:

[w30wcf]

I have had the opportunity to work with several of those powders over the past 10 years or so.

In the 30-30.....
HiVel 3 is "spot on" to RL 7 - the same charge weight of both powders gave average velocities within 5 f.p.s.

HiVel 2 - gave velocities that were 4% higher than 3031 and H322

Lightning - a perforated disc powder - almost identical velocities to 4198

In the 44-40.....
SR80 - a buff colored granular powder - just a wee bit slower than HS 7 / Blue Dot

Sharpshooter - a perforated disc powder - just a tick faster than 2400.

These were comparisons between the lots of powder that I have. Different lots....different results.

w30wcf

[Sonnypie]

I have and still use some 1934 IMR1185, which is the forerunner to IMR4895.
The Frankford Arsenal ammunition is 47.5g IMR1185, pushing a 173g pointed BT bullet.
Originally from a case of ammo used at the 1934 Camp Perry matches by an old friend of my Father.
I still use the powder today. I broke down the ammunition and changed the corrosive primers out.
We used IMR4895 data for loading with this powder.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/P9070030.jpg

Here is some other info. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Military_Rifle)

[Brasso]

Very, very interesting. You guys are a wealth of knowledge!!

Sam