H&R 223 w/ CBs

[Jim]

I started a project recently with my H&R .223. The goal was to develop a subsonic load with 55 gr. GCs. I had to start somewhere, so I picked 5 grains of Bullseye and used small rifle primers to light it.

Airborne101 sent me some boolits sized to .224 and gas checked, but unlubed. I lubed them with two light coats of alox thinned with 10% mineral spirits.

I set up a target at 50 ft. with a 1" square bullet paster as the bull. I was really surprised that I hit the sweet spot on the first guess. I shouldn't have any problem at all killin' a 'coon with this load.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/dscn1170-e1348779419982.jpg

[parrott1969]

Jim, be careful with such dramatically reduced loads. I would say that your playing with fire. Trail boss would be a better choice.

[nanuk]

5gr of bullseye? do you think that is subsonic?

any way to chrono that load?

perhaps Larry Gibson will chime in with his experiences. He seems to LOVE BE in very light loads.
HERE (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1695609&postcount=19) is one of his posts... should keep in mind the 223 is so much smaller.... but this can give you an idea of how low you can go with BE


I too am very interested in what you work out, as I have an H&R223 for playing around with.

[x101airborne]

Hey, Jim.
Great to see you having some success! With the tiny case capacity of the 223, I think you are fine. I remember us discussing the idea and I think it is an awesome use of our talents. Congrats and let me know how they work on coons!

[Jim]

5gr of bullseye? do you think that is subsonic?

any way to chrono that load?
perhaps Larry Gibson will chime in with his experiences. He seems to LOVE BE in very light loads.
HERE (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1695609&postcount=19) is one of his posts... should keep in mind the 223 is so much smaller.... but this can give you an idea of how low you can go with BE


I too am very interested in what you work out, as I have an H&R223 for playing around with.

Truthfully, I don't know. I don't have a chrony, so no way to verify. I do know, though, that it's a relatively quiet load and that's what I was after.

[Jim]

It is definitely NOT subsonic, and probably 1650-1700fps, so closer to a 22mag with solids.

If you want to go slower and quieter, back off 1/2gr at a time down to about 3gr. If you see vertical dispersion, you're too slow, but I doubt you'll see much vertical dispersion at 50'. 50 YARD groups would be a better indicator if you're not going to use a chrono to check for velocity spread. Plainbase would be my perference at such low velocities.

For those of you who haven't tried ultralight loads, 2.0gr Solo 1000 will push a 100gr plainbase out of a 30-30 with enough force to drive it a couple of inches into pine.

Good information, thank you!

[Larry Gibson]

Jim

I use 2.2 gr Bullseye under a 225428 to duplicate standard velocity sub sonic 22LR velocity at 1050 fps (2" barrel with 12" twist) and accuracy out of my 223 rifles.

BTW; Bullseye in such reduced loads is not playing with fire in the sense of an SEE. Bullseye ignites very easily and burns consistently at such low end "cat's sneeze" loads. Potential problems are from loading too low and leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel. I've gone down much lower before that happens and it is not a worry to mee. A double charge is not and "overcharge" either as you're now using 5 gr Bullseye with no problems....actually a tripple charge is still safe psi wise.

Larry Gibson

[Jim]

Jim

I use 2.2 gr Bullseye under a 225428 to duplicate standard velocity sub sonic 22LR velocity at 1050 fps (2" barrel with 12" twist) and accuracy out of my 223 rifles.

BTW; Bullseye in such reduced loads is not playing with fire in the sense of an SEE. Bullseye ignites very easily and burns consistently at such low end "cat's sneeze" loads. Potential problems are from loading too low and leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel. I've gone down much lower before that happens and it is not a worry to mee. A double charge is not and "overcharge" either as you're now using 5 gr Bullseye with no problems....actually a tripple charge is still safe psi wise.

Larry Gibson

Thanks for the reply, Larry.

I've been spending the morning loading 5 rounds of each, 3.0 grs. to 4.7 grs, in increments of .3 grs. I'll drop back and load some down from that 'till I break the 2.2 mark like you suggested.

As for the 'playing with fire' thing, yeah, I know. I did my homework and looked up a lot of 'cat sneeze' threads on it.

Yesterday, I was looking for the bottom of the pressure window using 55 gr. FMJs over B/E. The lowest charge that still pushed a bullet out of the barrel was 1.5 grs. I laughed 'cause it just 'pooped'. I shot one over 1.0 grs. and stuck a bullet. I got it out without any problems, though.

[Rocky Raab]

I did a whole article on the .223 and duplicated everything from the .22 Short almost to the .22-250. The rimfire-clone loads used 55GC bullets over TiteGroup. I used TG because it is position insensitive. For my .22LR target equivalent (1050 fps) I used 2.5 of TG and got five-shot groups of 0.6" at 50 yards. I tried both the RCBS and Lyman 225646 bullets (also generously supplied by members here) with comparable results.

For high-speed .22LR, I used 3.5 TG for 1337 fps avg and 0.9" at 50. Damn good loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Rocky

"13337 fps avg "

Needless to say I am duly impressed[smilie=l:

You might edit one of those numbers out......

Larry Gibson

[Rocky Raab]

Did. For a writer, I'm a lousy typist.

[Larry Gibson]

Yeah, me too and I've taken a bit of "heat" over it lately.....it's good we keep watch for each other:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[nanuk]

Rocky, can you provide the link to your 223 article?

I can't find it on your website

[pilot]

I also use a light BE load in 223. I use the Bator bullet over 2.5 grains of BE. This is in a Ruger No.3.

[Jim]

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dscn1236-e1349980274534.jpg

[Jim]

Today's round of testing was with Unique, cast boolits and NATO balls. Taking into account that the end result will be used for close range small game, any of the loads from 3.0 to 4.5 under CBs could be used. The next round of tests will be with Unique and 3.0 to 4.4 grs. in .2 gr. increments.

The group at bottom right is 2.5 grs. of Unique. I forgot to mark it.

I'd like to thank X101Airborne for providing the checked and sized boolits for this testing.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dscn1272-e1351100786298.jpg

The 3.0 gr. group appears to be the best in the NATO ball test. The next round of testing will be 2.6 to 3.4 in .1 gr. increments.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dscn1273-e1351100812835.jpg

[MT Gianni]

Jim, do you elevate between shots with either Unique or Bullseye?

[Jim]

No, I don't. I think the flash from a small rifle primer in a .223 case provides enough brisance to ignite the powder, regardless of position.

[357maximum]

"playing with fire".......if you were not playing with some amount of fire the boolit would not go nowhere.:groner:

If the handloader is on top of what he is doing the only danger with playing with extremely low charges of bullseye is sticking a boolit in the barrel. Just be alert.

I have went with alot less bullseye and other fast powders in alot bigger calibers....mouse fart loads are fun.

[Jim]

"playing with fire".......if you were not playing with some amount of fire the boolit would not go nowhere.:groner:

If the handloader is on top of what he is doing the only danger with playing with extremely low charges of bullseye is sticking a boolit in the barrel. Just be alert.

I have went with alot less bullseye and other fast powders in alot bigger calibers....mouse fart loads are fun.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=169218

[357maximum]

Why the h e double hockey sticks would someone want to go that slow with one of them copper coated thingies. Please see again the name of this forum.:bigsmyl2::popcorn::evil::veryconfu[smilie=s:

[Iowa Fox]

The nice thing about playing with these loads in single/ break open rifles is that it is very easy to peek down the bore after every shot.

[robroy]

Cool thread Jim. I'm wondering how well these little loads will work in the tiny 22 hornet. I might be shooting in the garage all winter!

[Jim]

Cool thread Jim. I'm wondering how well these little loads will work in the tiny 22 hornet. I might be shooting in the garage all winter!

When I started experimenting with Bullseye, I was amazed at how little was needed to poop the boolit out of a 22" barrel. I started with 5 grains and went down, one grain at a time, looking for the bottom of the pressure window. I finally stuck a boolit with one grain!

I would imagine a very low velocity 'garage' load could be worked up with Bullseye in .22 Hornet. I've got a Ruger no. 3 in Hornet that I intend to do some experimenting with also. When I get to it and get some results produced, I'll post it.

[robroy]

Hey Jim I got a couple more powders to try. How about Accurate #7 and W231? I don't know how position sensitive either of them is but nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Jim]

Hey Jim I got a couple more powders to try. How about Accurate #7 and W231? I don't know how position sensitive either of them is but nothing ventured nothing gained.

Ain't got 'em and ain't gonna find 'em within drivin' distance of Floyd.

[robroy]

I was kinda thinkin the hornet was small enough to keep things tight to the flashhole.

[ReloaderEd]

I am very impressed with the subsonic loads. Has anyone cronographed. Would like to make a 22 cb cap type load in the 22 hornet. I have a 55gr lyman plain base mole. Bullseye looks good. tks

[Jim]

Here are my TARGET FILES (http://floydpics.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/low-pressurevelocity-tests/).