9mm cast boolits help

[glowe]

Hello

I starting to reload 9mm boolets. I already reload .223, .308, 30-30 and 22-250. So, I have all the gear to reload. I have sized my 9mm and have made 500 cast boolets.
Question.

What do I need to reload casted 9mm?
I'm a RCBS fan but will use what ever is better.

What I think I need.
-3 die set for 9mm
-M-die to open the 9mm case to fix casted boolets.

Is this right?

Thanks
Greg Lowe

[runfiverun]

the 9m and 40 is a little different with cast than other rounds.
there is a good sticky here on the 9m,
that will give you some ideas about size and some loading techniques you can try.

[glowe]

thanks

[Balta]

Be sure you have correct boolit size for your gun.I cast and reload manly 9 mm and 45 auto and colt,and i have best result in 9 mm with boolits that have minimum 15 Bhn of hardness and i WQ my alloy and have 17-19 Bhn of hardness.For 45 ACP even 10-12 Bhn work great,i reload for top 780FPS velocity,just to have major PF with 230graina boolits.
I reload with Lee Load Master using 4 die set ,but Factory Crimp die is set just to have minimal touch with case.I size boolits to .357 ,my CZ75SP01 barrel is .356.
And as a" runfiverun" suggested you can check the sticky about 9 mm setup...
God luck

[PS Paul]

glowe, welcome to the forum, the very best on God's green Earth!! The sticky will be of HUGE help to you and using the "search" function will be a ton of help as well.

Be careful though, this stuff is addictive. LOL!!!

[NuJudge]

A lot of 9mm barrela have groove diameters over .357". All my Berettas and Walthers do.

[chris in va]

Take one of those boolits and slug your bore before sizing everything.

[Shiloh]

.358 is the magic number for me in the 9's. .357 is good, .358 is better.
Most commercial 9mm cast are too small. It seems to almost be a fluke to have a 9mm bore at .355.
9mm was the hardest caliber so far for me to get running and have really good accuracy.
boolit size is paramount.

Shiloh

[PS Paul]

Like Shilo, I prefer .358. I have a set of RCBS dies and the spud for belling the case in that set works fine for the boolits I've loaded. I have not used the M die for it.... I have found boolit shape has made a difference in seated depth/OAL, depending upon pistol. I have loaded "cone-shaped" boolits, but had to seat "rounder revolver-shaped" boolits like a TC style or HP a bit deeper in the case or the boolit touched the rifling and did not help cycling. Hope this helps. I suppose it is different for a lot of us on the forum. 3-die sets, 4 die sets with seating and taper crimping in separate steps, and so on.... Just how I do it, that's all.
P

[shotman]

Your big difference is you will shoot many more 9mm than the rifle stuff you load. so need get you a new plan laid out to load 9mm on a reg press. or look at a progressive. which is not cheap for a good one
also a GOOD power measuer since a 9 mm is only 3 to 5 grs

[lwknight]

Sometimes its hard to cast for 9mm. 2 of my pistols have a tight chamber so that bullets large enough for the bore will not chamber.

[DukeInFlorida]

Your 9mm reloading die set already has a case mouth "belling" die. It's the second die of the 3 die set. Use that to open the case mouth a bit for proper bullet insertion in the third die.

WHen using the second die, be careful to not over-bell the case mouth. If it looks like a trumpet, it's wayyyyyyyyyy too much. Start at zero belling, and continue adjusting in small increments until you can insert the bullet with light (very light) finger pressure, turn the assembly upside down, and lightly shake, and not have the assembly fall apart. That's about all the bell mouthing you need.

[captaint]

Greg - A couple of DO's - Do get a carbide die set for your 9mm's. I, personally like and use the Lyman dies, with the M die included. I also size my 9's to .358. As previously mentioned, however, not everybody can. Depends on your pistol. Do use good lube (softer). It's relatively easy to slug an auto pistol barrel, so do that, and measure the resulty with a Mic. Do read the Mt44Gun sticky of setting up for 9mm - twice. Let us know how it all works out. enjoy Mike

[smokemjoe]

A bullet with a bevel base load alot better and dont need a big bell as with a none BB, But I use both.

[glowe]

glowe, welcome to the forum, the very best on God's green Earth!! The sticky will be of HUGE help to you and using the "search" function will be a ton of help as well.

Be careful though, this stuff is addictive. LOL!!!

Thanks, this hobbie is turning out to be a full time job. lol.
I have reloading books and the lyman casting book. They are good, but nothing beats getting first hand exprience.

You guys are great! Thanks for the help. I'm getting good luck latey gettting WW's. I go to tire shops on my way to my army training nights and they give me tons. Everyone loves soldiers.

glowe

[glowe]

Your 9mm reloading die set already has a case mouth "belling" die. It's the second die of the 3 die set. Use that to open the case mouth a bit for proper bullet insertion in the third die.

WHen using the second die, be careful to not over-bell the case mouth. If it looks like a trumpet, it's wayyyyyyyyyy too much. Start at zero belling, and continue adjusting in small increments until you can insert the bullet with light (very light) finger pressure, turn the assembly upside down, and lightly shake, and not have the assembly fall apart. That's about all the bell mouthing you need.

Thanks, this helps a lot. I was wondering about the case mouth die.

[Iron Mike Golf]

+1 on slugging your barrel. I run .358 in my SR9c and in my 380's (PK380 and P238).

Read up on how the taper in the case wall can swage your boolit base down. You might need to modify a 38 Spl expander to address that. There's a sticky on that in this forum. I have not had to do that. I use a Lyman Powder-through expander that has replaceable spuds. The 9mm spud works for me. Make dummy rounds, then pull the boolits and mike them to make sure the brass is not swaging them down.

I am a water-dropper, too. Alloy is 92-4-4 and I age them at least a week. I use Carnauba Red for 9mm.

[glowe]

+1 on slugging your barrel. I run .358 in my SR9c and in my 380's (PK380 and P238).

Read up on how the taper in the case wall can swage your boolit base down. You might need to modify a 38 Spl expander to address that. There's a sticky on that in this forum. I have not had to do that. I use a Lyman Powder-through expander that has replaceable spuds. The 9mm spud works for me. Make dummy rounds, then pull the boolits and mike them to make sure the brass is not swaging them down.

I am a water-dropper, too. Alloy is 92-4-4 and I age them at least a week. I use Carnauba Red for 9mm.

Thanks, I have another newbe question.
I have a lee mold 356-125-2R, it 's the 6 mold cav.
How do you make them .358 from .356 (mold)?
I've been reading a ton, but can't get my head around making a boolet bigger with a sizing die.
Thanks.

[glowe]

Thanks, I have another newbe question.
I have a lee mold 356-125-2R, it 's the 6 mold cav.
How do you make them .358 from .356 (mold)?
I've been reading a ton, but can't get my head around making a boolet bigger with a sizing die.
Thanks.

Just got found the answer. Get a 358 mold.
Somethings are to easy

[Wally]

Just got found the answer. Get a 358 mold.
Somethings are to easy

Just be sure to see if they will chamber being that size.

[MtGun44]

Check out the stickies.

Here is a useful one:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=121737

Bill

[glowe]

great stickie, thanks

[MtGun44]

You're welcome - 9mm can be a bit of a problem child, but done right it will be fine.

Bill

[robertbank]

The only 9MM pistols I have found with bores over .355 are from Europe. That said my CZ'a were bang on .355. I like the Dillon dies for ease of clean up and their flared die mouths. I size my boolits .357 and have had no problems to date. If you size on a Lyman/RCBS bevel based boolits cand be a pain when lubing. Personally I prefer flat based boolits and have coverted one of my bevel based to flat based. 9MM brass is cheap and last for a long time so I don't sweat the odd split case mouth. I just bell them a litle larger than I would if I was using bevel based boolits.

If you believe oburteration plays a significant part in accuracy, and I don't, then flat based boolits should be the ticket. I have yet to recover a bevel based boolit that showed any sign of obuterating out to seal the bore.

Take Care

Bob

[glowe]

Great info. Thanks

[Ola]

That said my CZ'a were bang on .355. And mine is .357-358. SO you never know for sure before you measure your gun.

BTW, make sure the sizing die is NOT sizing the case too much. I have a Dillon die like that. When the boolit is seated the cartridge looks like a Coke bottle. The boolit is no longer .358 because the case sizes it down.

[robertbank]

OLA did you miss the part where I said the only guns I have found with oversuze 9MM bores are from Europe - CZ's are made in the Czech Republic. CZ pistols 75B/SP-01's series are easily the most popular pistols used in IPSC Production and I know of no IPSC shooters who slug their bores. I would suggest most reload using plated/lead bullets sized .356 with no ill effect.

My STI Trojan, three M&P's, 2 CZ 85 Combats and a Tanfanglio all have bores of .355. They all get a steady diet of lead bullets sized .357.

Take Care

Bob

[glowe]

OLA did you miss the part where I said the only guns I have found with oversuze 9MM bores are from Europe - CZ's are made in the Czech Republic. CZ pistols 75B/SP-01's series are easily the most popular pistols used in IPSC Production and I know of no IPSC shooters who slug their bores. I would suggest most reload using plated/lead bullets sized .356 with no ill effect.

My STI Trojan, three M&P's, 2 CZ 85 Combats and a Tanfanglio all have bores of .355. They all get a steady diet of lead bullets sized .357.

Take Care

Bob

Bob, I have a M&P 9mm, What cast mold to you use for it.
Thanks
Greg

[robertbank]

Bob, I have a M&P 9mm, What cast mold to you use for it.
Thanks
Greg

I cast the Lyman 356402 truncated cone boolit. I use it over 4.1 gr of 231, OAL 1.10. Load is extremely accurate in all my 9MM's and feeds through the M&P like hot butter. I have shot thousands of them with very good results. Great for IDPA/IPSC/USPSA

Take Care

Bob

[Hastings]

The only CZ we had slugged was my wife's Shadow she uses for IPSC, and it came out to about .357". I figured it would give me an indication of where my 75B was as well. So I size Lyman 356637 to .358" which just barely touches it.

The bullet works for us, and the bevel is no longer a problem with the Lyman 4500 now that I finally figured out what seems to be a permanent solution.

[robertbank]

The only CZ we had slugged was my wife's Shadow she uses for IPSC, and it came out to about .357". I figured it would give me an indication of where my 75B was as well. So I size Lyman 356637 to .358" which just barely touches it.

The bullet works for us, and the bevel is no longer a problem with the Lyman 4500 now that I finally figured out what seems to be a permanent solution.

How is your Shadow for accuracy using plated bullets? I size my 356637 boolits .357 and have yet to find a decent load with the bullet. My Shadow was bang on .355 anf shot the plated and lead bullets just fine. I size all my 9MM bullets .357. Incidently the .357 sizer hardly rouches my 356637 boolits.

Take Care

Bob

[Hastings]

Interesting Bob, now that you mention it the Frontier 147gr plated bullets powered by 3.5gr of N320 keyhole every once in awhile in the Shadow. I haven't seen the 356637 keyhole even once in any 9mm I own, and we've shot literally thousands upon thousands of them.

The size of my cast 356637 according to my micrometer is around .358", with the part above the lube groove just behind the start of the ogive a bit larger than this. It's the only part of the boolit that is visibly touched by the 4500 sizer. Perhaps Lyman molds are as (in)consistent as CZ barrels. Granted, when we're talking 1/1000th of a difference we really are literally splitting hairs. Differences in casting temperature and alloy composition can easily account for bigger variations than .001".

The biggest issue with the 356637 in the CZ I found was the short chamber issue. I had to ensure that no round exceeded 1.085" OAL, or else I'd have to extract it from the chamber with a squib rod. So my Comp Redding seating die is set for 1.080" to give me an acceptable margin of error without being too far off from the recommended seating depth.

[robertbank]

If I were you I would sell the Shadow and look for another. I know mine was bang on .355 as is my CZ85 Combat. Never had a problem with it.

I am going to play with my mold this winter and see if I can increase the diameter by playing with the alloy a bit. I don't want to go as far as having to beagle it but maybe.

Take Care

Bob

[Hastings]

If I were you I would sell the Shadow and look for another.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my wife's gun itself. The trigger is very nice on it, and even double action is exactly where she wants it to be. While the barrel is nearly as large as many other European 9mm guns, we at least found a boolit that works nicely in it.

In any case, I do have a spare CZ barrel (mine!) here that I would swap with it if I thought it was a big problem. It isn't slugged though, and might even be larger than her current barrel for all I know.

But ditch the entire gun? Not sure why you would think that would be necessary...