I think my head is going to explode

[wantoutofca]

This is a long story but I'll keep it short...

I have a Smith and Wesson Performance Center 460 that has been nothing but trouble. I bought it new when I worked at a gun shop and signed for the original shipment myself. Due to buying a scope at the same time all I noticed at the time was that it had the worst single action Smith trigger I have ever pulled (out of well over 100).

Anyways, I pulled the scope off and started to adjust the rear sight in preparation for hunting this fall, and it turned out it wouldn't sight in because the blade was stripped. After a month I finally got the replacement and discovered that the gun shot about 18" to the right at 100yds when adjusted hard left. Alright, out to Smith it went with a note that stated the above problem and to also check out the creep in the trigger. Got it back today and the trigger wasn't touched!! This wouldn't be so bad if the creep was smooth but after it breaks the "grit" is bad enough that you can let your finger off the trigger but the trigger stays put. Now I've been without it for a month and a half and now need to talk them into taking it back once again.

You would think that with the prices they charge for these things the gun would be good to go out of the box, I guess not.

[uscra112]

Wouldn't buy a new S&W on a bet. I have only two, and they both are 1970's vintage. Short of a specimen that's seen horrific abuse, an old Smith is much better than a new one, IMHO. Son-in-law just had much the same experience you've had.

(I've never bought a gun new in my life. I'm almost 70, and expect I'll die first.)

Seriously, having been in manufacturing most of my life, I can see what's happening. The old guns got a lot of hand-fitting, because the machining processes were not accurate enough by themselves. Today, the CNC machine tool manufacturer salesmen convince management that their accuracy is so good that you don't need hand-work anymore, and the managers' eyes all come up $$$$ ! Thing is, those machines will do it when they're in perfect tune, but the fact is they never are, unless the management invests a lot in process control gauging and keeps the rate of production to a speed where faults can be corrected before they produce hundreds of marginal or even bad parts.

I can tell ya I ain't just whistling Dixie. Process control gauging was my career for many years. From 1995 to 2005 or so the company I worked for took GM/Ford/Chrysler from the dark ages to the point where they make better engines than the Japanese, (and I can prove it if you've got the engineering background). S&W should take a leaf out of their book, but as of the time I retired, they wouldn't give us the time of day.

[357Mag]

Oughta' Ca -

Howdy !

Try dropping a line to sandburrgunranch@gmail.com in Indiana, and posit your questions, there.

Their gunsmith D.O. Reichard is up on his S & W's.

Website includes testimonials, from likes of Masad Ayoob.
Contact info also lists a phone number.

With regards,
357Mag

[MtGun44]

IMO, my S&Ws bought new in the last 10 yrs have been the best I own, including many
old ones back to the 1920s.
Send it back.

Bill

[M-Tecs]

I have a couple of S&W's purchased within the last five years. They are better than the ones I have from the 80's through the 90's.

[fecmech]

I would call S&W and ask for a call tag to ship it back on their dime. I would mention some of their advertisemnt about "Best of the Best" which is what they state Perfomance Center guns are http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_750001_750051_757896_-1_Y
Read some of their ad copy to them and ask where gritty triggers that don't return are designed "from the ground up for discriminating firearms enthusiasts"!

[wantoutofca]

I called them back this morning and they are paying to ship it back. The service rep was very apologetic and said they must have overlooked it accidentally. He said he marked as a second return for the same problem which will mean mandatory supervisor oversight. We'll see what happens. I told him I have another pistol to use for hunting season but I left out that it is a Ruger!

[John Ross]

Once in a while something slips through the cracks. This has been true forever. In the '60s a few M29s got shipped with no rifling...

I'll echo the sentiment that aside from surface finish, current S&W revolvers are, on average, the best they have ever made at any time in the company's history.

Communicate clearly with them and they will make it right. Sounds like you have done just that.

[x101airborne]

Sounds like you are on track. I have some faith left in S&W, but like you, I have had a little trouble with some of their new stuff. And on the other hand, My mom and dad picked up a matched pair of 38 airweights and they are GREAT!! Awesome triggers, super accurate, and natural lead chunkers. Keep us posted and good luck!

[km101]

Smith will probably replace the trigger and any other parts necessary to correct the trigger to factory standards, but it wont be as good as a "non factory" gunsmith will make it. They cite liability and safety issues and wont "tune" a trigger unless it goes through the custom shop.

USCRA112 hit it right on the head! Smith, like most other manufacturing facilities, now relies on machine tool accuracy rather than hand fitting. Thats great when everything goes well, but tolerances pile up and sometimes you get bad parts, which makes for a bad gun! You cant rely solely on machines and expect to turn out a consistently good product.

I have seen several on here that say that the new Smiths are as good as the old ones. That may be true if you are comparing the guns from the 80's and 90's, but IMO that is not true of the guns from the 60's and 70's! And I will NOT buy anything that has a keyhole in it!! But I probably will never buy another new Smith anyway, my old ones are working fine and I have the parts and ability to fix them if they dont! :)

[rintinglen]

My experience with S&W's made in the 70's was nothing to write home about. I worked the gun counter in a big hard ware store then. 4 of 9 S&W Model 28's went back for warranty work. A K-22 had the target Hammer Spur break off and go flying when a customer dry-fired it. I saw a 44 Mag Barrel with a 41 Mag Cylinder, a K-frame 38 with a barrel that was missing a forcing cone. Bangor-Punta did their best to run the company into the ground.

Anyone thinking those guns are better than todays is misinformed. Now the guns from the 50's and 60's were much better fitted, or at least, by the time I was shooting them, all the bugs were gone.

[wantoutofca]

Smith will probably replace the trigger and any other parts necessary to correct the trigger to factory standards, but it wont be as good as a "non factory" gunsmith will make it.

That is fine by me! I'm fine with 4lb pull when it comes to a gun with so much recoil. Right now the trigger breaks and then stops before hammer release. As long as that problem is gone I'll be happy.

[nicholst55]

Smith will probably replace the trigger and any other parts necessary to correct the trigger to factory standards, but it wont be as good as a "non factory" gunsmith will make it. They cite liability and safety issues and wont "tune" a trigger unless it goes through the custom shop.

Some exceptional gunsmiths like Hamilton Bowen won't even attempt to do a trigger job on S&Ws with MIM hammers and triggers. It may be an issue of time, like he hasn't got time to keep up with the work he has now, but personally I value his opinion.

Just sayin'.

[wantoutofca]

Some exceptional gunsmiths like Hamilton Bowen won't even attempt to do a trigger job on S&Ws with MIM hammers and triggers. It may be an issue of time, like he hasn't got time to keep up with the work he has now, but personally I value his opinion.

Just sayin'.

I don't at all disagree. My issue is I'm in a town of 10,000 with no gunsmiths I'd trust. Sending it out to s&w is free compared to express shipping it to anyone else.

[nicholst55]

I don't at all disagree. My issue is I'm in a town of 10,000 with no gunsmiths I'd trust. Sending it out to s&w is free compared to express shipping it to anyone else.

Can you get a local or semi-local FFL to ship it for you? They can send it by USPS Priority Mail for cheap. I mailed a revolver across the country yesterday for $12 and change in shipping/insurance/delivery confirmation. I really lucked out, and the FFL didn't even charge me a transfer fee!

[wantoutofca]

Just got the gun back and all I can say is... This thing is awesome! Shoots dead on at 50 yards with the iron sights centered and the trigger is very crisp with a 1/2lb lighter pull than it went in with. It's just a shame that it took them 3 months to get the gun behaving the way it should have right out of the box.

[Bloodman14]

Send them a letter of thanks, at least.

[x101airborne]

I am glad for your luck. I cannot believe that I have handled S&W performance center weapons that were worse than the production revolvers and have read so many experiences like yours. Now I just have the opinion that I will buy a Ruger. I hate to be that way, I do so love my smith revolvers. I REALLY love my smith's. But some of their problems are bordering on the just plain crazy. Ruger has some of the same problems, but they are few and far between. IMO.

[sargenv]

Another good 'smith in CA is Randy Lee of Apex Tactical out of Los Osos (near Morro bay) Many an ICORE Revo shooter has trusted his hand working on their S&W revolvers.. if Smith can't get it where you want it, you might look into talking to them..

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you for that recommendation. I'm headed down there this weekend for fun. Maybe I should drop by and say hi. Not enough folks doing the good work here.

Good the issue got fixed, too. I was gonna recommend a revolversmoth up in boise, as I have seen his work specifically on a 460 X-frame for one of the employees. To this day the finest trigger I have felt.