charter bulldog 44 special...?

[The Black Spot]

gotta older charter buldog(bridgeport, conn) 44 special. my cylinder throats
are .431-432, but my barrel where it goes into the frame is .427. should I shoot .430 sized heavier bullets(say 260-310gr)? hard alloy of 15 bhn or so? seat bullet close to end of chambers? thanks

[nicholst55]

Either fire lap or Taylor Throat to remove that thread constriction. The early Charters were known for this problem, and some tended to keyhole the bullets, even at close range because of it.

[dualsport]

The rule of thumb is to ignore groove diameter and size to fit the throat. Sounds like .4315 to me, if they will chamber ok. Maybe make a dummy round with a .432 and see how it chambers. I'd use a softer alloy, like 50/50 ww/pb.

[The Black Spot]

what about using a soft alloy with a gas check? I will look up the taylor throat. really hate it if I had to start using j words.

[Jim]

I have one of the latest generation Bulldogs. It's the Parkerized stainless lightweight version. I load 230s in it and keep 'em at middle of window velocities because the cylinders walls are only .052" at the thinest. The gun may very well be capable of higher pressures, but I'm not inclined to test it. It's my 'get off me' gun so I carry it often, but rarely fire it. Just thought I'd mention that.

[Dan Cash]

You can use a plain base 20:1 or 30:1 bullet with good results; probably less leading than with the hard bullets.

[2shot]

I bought one of the first ones that hit the streets back in the 70's. I 've tried just about every load I could get my hands on and have settled on a Hornady 240 gr. SWCHP over 5 grains of Unique sparked by a Fereral LP primer. At 7 yards I can keep all 5 shots in a group about the size of a tennis ball and shoots to the sights. Good enough for social work!

I know that doesn't answer your question about what size bullets to use or the hardness. Just passing on a load that works real well for my gun.

To tell the truth I really don't like this CA Bulldog because of it's quality but it does go bang every time I pull the trigger and it is light weight with a big bullet. JMHO

2shot

[Rocky Raab]

I also have a Bulldog as my carry gun. I use WW Silvertips as my carry load, but use cast bullets for practice and most other shooting. One load that works not only in that gun but in my flattop Blackhawk as well is 6.0 American Select. It gave me the best accuracy AND velocity with every bullet I tried in it from 180 to 240 grains: swaged, cast, plated and jacketed. ALL of them. It's now my only 44 Special load.

[The Black Spot]

thanks for all the tips. I will try what powders I have in hand and molds.
200 gr lee
old 255 gr lee
310 gr gc lee
powders are bullseye, bluedot, 2400, and lilgun.

most likely then a 200-255 gr at 1:20 tin/lead with bullseye or bluedot?
(i doubt lilgun is a good special powder)

[rexherring]

All of my short barrels like faster powders like Bullseye or 231, less flash too.

http://www.reloadammo.com/44sloads.htm

[dualsport]

My Charter Arms Undercover has never malfunctioned, still works fine after many years. I trust it with my life. The frame design is actually pretty smart.

[The Black Spot]

well, I am getting conflicting reports. some say soft lead bullets, some say hard lead bullets with gas check. the gas check definitely makes sense. think I will try some both ways(soft/hard) with a gas check, if that doesnt work I will have to firelap or use j words.

[Rocky Raab]

A gas check is almost completely superfluous at those pressures and velocities. You won't be hot-rodding any loads in that gun, believe me. It's not that the gun won't take it, but your wrist.

I predict you'll end up with a 240-gr bullet at 850 fps or so as your comfort limit. And you'll be happier at 750 if you fire more than a couple cylinders at a session. At those speeds and pressures, even soft swaged bullets will be fine if the lube and diameter are right. My Bulldog never leads a bit with Speer swaged bullets, but does with those from Hornady unless I re-lube the Hornadys with a bit of 45/45/10. It shoots my Lee TL 240s cleanly, also.

And once again, allow me to give my pet load for 44 Special: 6.0 American Select.

[The Black Spot]

well, I,found out my cylinder chambers are slightly off with barrel alignment. thinkin on #2 alloy 310 lee with about 6.8 to 7 gr of bluedot. longer bullet should help line up cylinder.i will crimp in groove closer to gas check. if I get 2" groups at 10 -15 yds I will be a happy shooter.

Rocky - wish I had some AS and PP powders, but,all I have is bluedot, 2400, & bullseye. funds are tight right now.

[Rocky Raab]

I speak that, my friend. Remember it very well indeed. (There was a time when my pocket money budget was $5 a week - and I was a USAF Captain jet instructor pilot...)

[I'll Make Mine]

well, I,found out my cylinder chambers are slightly off with barrel alignment. thinkin on #2 alloy 310 lee with about 6.8 to 7 gr of bluedot. longer bullet should help line up cylinder.i will crimp in groove closer to gas check. if I get 2" groups at 10 -15 yds I will be a happy shooter.

I'd advise against this -- bad cylinder timing can lead to lead spitting and can significantly increase pressure. My first Dan Wesson Model 15 did this after it was stolen and recovered by police; the same barrel transferred to another frame was perfectly fine with loads that were giving hard extraction and flat primers in the first frame/cylinder. If your timing is off, the gun needs to be checked by a gunsmith who regularly works on revolvers; it may just need some work on the hand or pawl -- or it may have a bent crane.

[TCLouis]

I have a relatively new Bulldog (SS) and it was to be my carry gun, but now I have to send it back for repairs again. Required a new barrel first thing when I bought it

Low round count of mild 44 SPL.
Obviously built to current standards, not to those of yesteryear's guns.

[leftiye]

Either fire lap or Taylor Throat to remove that thread constriction. The early Charters were known for this problem, and some tended to keyhole the bullets, even at close range because of it.

I always thought I'd bulged my bore in my old BD (when I ran a tight patch and found it to be loose in the middle). Maybe not. In the present case I'd suggest soft boolits sized .432 or to fit the chamber mouths and mild (reads don't forget this will raise pressures) loads as necessary. I always load down for the bulldog anyway, it is hard to hit anything with with hard recoiling loads. Nowadays it eats 180 wadcutters as a steady diet. Heavy enough, good shock value from flat point, big enough hole any way you see it, close in gun, so accurate enough. Probly won't over penetrate.

[w30wcf]

I purchased my Bulldog in 1977. It has .433" throats. I don't know about the barrel as I replaced it with a Douglas barrel.

Factory 44 Special lead round nosed bullets are hollow based which will work well with various throat dimensions.

Cast bullets that are .433/.434 shoot the best in my gun.

Great write up on loads for the 44 Bulldog here......
http://www.levergun.com/articles/44_Special_Bulldog.htm

w30wcf

[MT Gianni]

I'd advise against this -- bad cylinder timing can lead to lead spitting and can significantly increase pressure. My first Dan Wesson Model 15 did this after it was stolen and recovered by police; the same barrel transferred to another frame was perfectly fine with loads that were giving hard extraction and flat primers in the first frame/cylinder. If your timing is off, the gun needs to be checked by a gunsmith who regularly works on revolvers; it may just need some work on the hand or pawl -- or it may have a bent crane.

Here is another one with a piece of advise to always treat the crane of a Charter gently. They have a slight reputation as being easy to bend. I have seen one and heard of another.

[The Black Spot]

by crane, I assume that is the arm that hinges into the frame and is connected to the cylinder pin?

[2shot]

by crane, I assume that is the arm that hinges into the frame and is connected to the cylinder pin?

Yes that's the crane.

[The Black Spot]

if crane is bent, can it be bent back carefully?

[I'll Make Mine]

if crane is bent, can it be bent back carefully?

Not by any method I know of, though I suppose it's possible a master gunsmith could do the job. When we say "bent" we usually really mean "twisted" -- whichever term you use, the problem is that the cylinder axis isn't parallel with the bore when the cylinder latches in; usually (because of the way most revolvers are built) the front end will be to the left, so the lead shaved at the forcing cone will spit to the left.

Getting the crane straightened out without replacement is likely to be a case of "make a change and see if it's better or worse" -- which is a long (expensive) process because the ability to measure the alignment is limited (can't just stuff a rod down the bore, because the chamber throats are supposed to be bigger than groove diameter). The simplest method I can think off offhand (having never done it) that doesn't involve shooting the piece to check after each minuscule adjustment would be to remove the barrel and machine a rod that's a snug fit in the throat, along with an insert that goes in the barrel threads and is a snug fit on the rod (this should check both timing and alignment). This would be fairly easy to do with a Dan Wesson; quite a bit harder with anything that isn't made to have the barrel taken off on a whim...

[The Black Spot]

thanks for all the replies.

I tried out the the lee 310 gr gc bullet in #2 alloy (crimped at the lowest groove) with 6.8 gr of bluedot. manageable recoil. I was shooting freehand at 10 yds, my first three shots were touching, 4th shot opened group to 1.75", I messed up on the last shot and ended with a 4" group including my flyer. I will test this load again. I had no leading with the harder alloy.

[badgeredd]

I purchased my Bulldog in 1977. It has .433" throats. I don't know about the barrel as I replaced it with a Douglas barrel.

Factory 44 Special lead round nosed bullets are hollow based which will work well with various throat dimensions.

Cast bullets that are .433/.434 shoot the best in my gun.

Great write up on loads for the 44 Bulldog here......
http://www.levergun.com/articles/44_Special_Bulldog.htm

w30wcf

I just read the article 2 weeks ago and found some very good advice in it. One thing I've found with mine is it shoots the commercial 44 Special Remington lead bullet loads with reasonable accuracy at self defense ranges. Consequently I use a mild load and Bullseye or 231 for my handloads. It isn't a very big gun so felt recoil can influence ones accuracy quite a bit. Heavy boolits can be used, but in my opinion, I think a fellow is better off with a lighter boolit at moderate velocities, primarily because a fellow is better able to make a second and third shot with a lot less time involved in recovery of his sight picture. YMMV.

Edd

[The Black Spot]

I just read the article 2 weeks ago and found some very good advice in it. One thing I've found with mine is it shoot the commercial 44 Special Remington lead bullet loads with reasonable accuracy at self defense ranges. Consequently I use a mild load and Bullseye or 231 for my handloads. It isn't a very big gun so felt recoil can influence ones accuracy quite a bit. Heavy boolits can be used, but in my opinion, I think a fellow is better off with a lighter boolit at moderate velocities, primarily because a fellow is better able to make a second and third shot with a lot less time involved in recovery of his sight picture. YMMV.

Edd

good points. I think mine is going to work better with harder alloy. I will still work with my lee 200 gr mold, had a load of 11 gr 2400 that shows promise. I may either invest in hp mold or go with jacketed hp's for defense loads. I dont think hard alloy good for defense load(pass thru's probable).
a hard alloy hp should be fine.

[Rocky Raab]

After reading the article, I believe I'll switch from Silvertips to the Speer Gold Dot for my carry load. I see no reason to change my "everything else" load. From my gun, 240-grain bullets hit just above POA, 215s hit right on, and lighter ones hit progressively lower.

[The Black Spot]

I was given a few 240 gr xtp as well as some 210 gr rem half jacket hp's. going to try those with 5 gr bullseye.

[Forrest r]

Rocky Raab, is the 6.0g charge of american select a p+ load with bullets wieghing in the 220g to 240g weight range?

[Rocky Raab]

No. It's near but under standard max.

[The Black Spot]

I tried out the 6.8 gr of bluedot with a cast 310 gr again. still hangs around 2-2.5" at 18 yds. prints about 5" high.
shot a 210 gr copper jacket with 5 gr of bullseye, shotgun pattern at 10 yds.
240 gr xtp hornady with 5 gr of bullseye gave a nice 1.25" group at 10 yds. xtp at that low a velocity may not be a good defense load(too much penetration?).

[Rocky Raab]

If you are concocting a defense load (and I will NOT start that much-run hare) look at the Speer Gold Dot. The factory load with that bullet may be the best one available in .44 Special.

[FergusonTO35]

Just slightly off topic, I will say that my Charter Police Undercover is an awesome revolver. It's a six shot .38 built on the Bulldog frame and wil take +P no problem. It is about the same size as argued SP-101 and actually weighs a little less. Mine was made in 2008 and is one of my favorite guns.

[Wis. Tom]

I just got my Charter Bulldog today, but raining, so range will have to wait. Now need to work on the reloading end.

[Wis. Tom]

Question, can I cut down 44 Rem. mag brass, that I have a pile of, to the length of 44 special, and then reload? Isn't everything else the same?

[I'll Make Mine]

No good reason that wouldn't work, Tom, except that it's much more work than trading off your Magnum brass to someone who needs it, and getting Special brass to replace it...

[Wis. Tom]

Good point

[eck0313]

44 Magnum brass is a little thicker (case wall) than 44 Special brass, so keep that in mind. Your seated bullets might swell the cases a bit.

I would swing/trade for some .44 Special brass before I'd cut .44 Mag brass.

[Forrest r]

I cut my 44mag brass back to 44spl length on the cases that start to get split case mouths. I've done this for years without any problems.

I've owned several charter arms over the years & find that they are hard to beat for a plain jane pocket pistol, they just get the job done. My off duty (38spl) & my bull dog (44spl).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/charterpistols.jpg

In the past I've always just loaded up hot loads with jacketed hps. It's time to sit down & do some testing with some of the different boolits I have. It's time to break out the chrony, some media to shoot into for expansion tests & the 10 or so different powders I have for pistols.

The 44's are MiHec's 503 clone with a small hp (top left), a standard hp (top center), & a penta point hp (top right). The bottom left are 40s&w brass that I bumped up to .430 & melted 158g 38 slugs in them to create a 220g jacket hbwc or a hp from hell when turned around. The bottom right is a MiHec 220g hbwc & as you can see they open up very nicely when used as a hp. The mushroomed boolit in the pic was shot into water jugs @800fps.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/dev3.jpg

The 38's are MiHec's 359640 boolits. That's the penta point hp's (left), regular hp's (center). The bullets on the right are 9mm cases that I ran thru a draw die that I made to resize them to .357. I put 32cal 93g slugs in them & melted the lead to make 158g jacketed hbwc's. That again can be turned around to make a hp from hell. What's missing in the picture is some MiHec's 150g hbwc's, I haven't gotten around to casting them yet. I will get around to casting up 15# or 20# of them this weekend.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/dev2.jpg

Those 40s&w loaded up in some 44spl cases. These things get mid-evel on anything they hit. The brass comes off in pieces/strips as it mushrooms out & the huge metaplat slug keeps on driving thru the hole the hp created.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/all_zps78033e85.jpg

Should prove to be some interesting testing/results.

[helice]

I'm here to agree with Edd,
That little 44 jumps around a bit when fired with hotter loads. I preferred a 200 gr. FN at 750 foot seconds max. I bought an LBT ogival wadcutter used that dropped 166 gr boolit. It was fat and proved great in the Special.

[Catshooter]

In my Bulldog I like the Keith 429421 cast of 3/4 pure lead with 1/4 WW over 6.5 grains of Universal Clays. Gives just a bit over 850 fps, shoots to point of aim. I like it.


Cat