Getting "NOT SO MEAN" with 357 rifles and carbines

[crabo]

I have really enjoyed the "mean" thread going on rifles and carbines. I am working on target loads for pistol cartridge silhouette and the 357 rifle.

I am really interested in 100 meter groups. Before my barrel set back and rechamber, I had groups that were good at 50 and fell apart at 100 meters. I could only get good groups with 180 grain gc boolits pushed by 14.5 of 4227. Several people commented on how hard I was hitting the targets. I stopped working with that gun, until the rechamber. Now I am back on it.

Anyone have anything to share?

[runfiverun]

look at powders in the unique - herco range,and 158's, they will easily drop a ram.
i ran 9 rams in a row using 3,5 grs of clays and a 158 swc then i forgot where i was aiming.
like mentioned in the other thread..
i mainly use a 158 rnfp plain base over 7 grs of herco and a primer of some brand.
in starline cases.

[rintinglen]

I am looking at this thread with hope and expectation. I have not been able to find a good load for my Rossi that isn't a barn-burner. It likes em hot, and I'd like to find something a little less frenetic. I tried some 358-311 loads with Unique that had done yeoman's service in my revolvers, but the Rossi refused to sling them into nice tidy groups, yet the RCBS 358-162 SWC GC loaded over 15.7 H-110 shoots great, as does 14.9 grains of 2400.
I hope to garner some insight on lighter loads that will translate to my own gun.

[runfiverun]

some of the newer rossi's refuse to shoot anything but hotter 158 gr loads or 125 gr boolits.
they changed the twist rate some when taurus took over.
they also have different ideas about what diameter a 44 mag and 45 colt bbl should have than the rest of the world.

[HDS]

some of the newer rossi's refuse to shoot anything but hotter 158 gr loads or 125 gr boolits.
they changed the twist rate some when taurus took over.
they also have different ideas about what diameter a 44 mag and 45 colt bbl should have than the rest of the world.

What are those respective diameters? Are they over or undersize?

[Plinkster]

I've only got one specimen to compare and it's a Taurus pistol, in name anyway. 8 3/8" Raging Bull in 44 mag and the grooves run .432 in it. Tough to measure without V blocks an indicator and gauge pins too with its 5 groove rifling.

[gundownunder]

My Marlin 1894 cowboy will not group with 158gr cast bullets with any powder I have ever tried, and I've tried quite a few. I can get it to work reasonably well with lighter bullets like 125gr or 135gr but accuracy with pistol powders goes to pot somewhere between 50yds - 100yds, so I have to drive them hard with 2400 etc. I am currently working up loads with the Mihec 360-640 bullet which I cast at 175gr with range scrap + tin and it works well with 2400 and 2205 (4227) out to 200 yds. My next challenge will be to find an accurate load with the 360-640 out to 100yds with Trailboss because my high power loads put some nasty dents in the pistol caliber silhouettes.
That 360-640 with 4gr Trailboss also shows a lot of promise in my Security Six. That was my starter load so tweaking the powder quantity may make all the difference.

[fecmech]

I am looking at this thread with hope and expectation. I have not been able to find a good load for my Rossi that isn't a barn-burner.
Two loads that work very well in two 30" twist Rossi's and my Win 94 are the following.
1. Lee 158 TLSWC over 5-5.3/231 or 5.0-5.8/Unique. Clocks in the 1100 fps range and will take rams all day long. These are 3-4 moa @100 yds and will hold that pretty well to 200 yds.
2. Lee 125 RNFP with again 5.3/231 and 4.5 BE. These run 1200 fps and are more accurate, more like 2-3moa @ 100 but I have lost an occasional low hit ram. These also shoot well to 200 yds. You can also sub the Lee or RCBS 120/125 TC 9mm bullets with the exact same results.
The Lee 158 rnfp has not shot well for me at 100 with light loads at all, IME it needs full throttle to shoot well at 100. It will shoot great at 50 yds in 1100 fps range and tumble before reaching 100 out of my Rossi's. Why the TLSWC by Lee shoots so well with the slow twist I have no idea but it does. The "Hornaday clone" from BRP also shoots well in the 1100 fps range in the Rossi's if you can find a mold, slightly better than the Lee TLSWC. Hope this helps.

[1bluehorse]

I am looking at this thread with hope and expectation. I have not been able to find a good load for my Rossi that isn't a barn-burner. It likes em hot, and I'd like to find something a little less frenetic. I tried some 358-311 loads with Unique that had done yeoman's service in my revolvers, but the Rossi refused to sling them into nice tidy groups, yet the RCBS 358-162 SWC GC loaded over 15.7 H-110 shoots great, as does 14.9 grains of 2400.
I hope to garner some insight on lighter loads that will translate to my own gun.

Interesting. I just ran some 162gr. RNFP with 14.5gr. 2400 through my wifes Rossi, got backed out, cratered primers...backed off to 14gr. and still slightly cratered. Thats a Lee 150gr. mold by the way. Didn't shoot bad however..

[gundownunder]

There was a slightly milder load that used to do well in my Marlin a few years ago when I first got it. It was a 125gr RNFP and BlueDot, the load was both accurate and pleasant to shoot, but I believe Alliant have recommended that BlueDot not be used with light bullets in the 357 so I no longer use it.


Interesting. I just ran some 162gr. RNFP with 14.5gr. 2400 through my wifes Rossi, got backed out, cratered primers...backed off to 14gr. and still slightly cratered.

All of the reloading data I've got suggests that that load would be over the max by at least 1gr - 1.5gr. If you saw signs of pressure shouldn't you have stopped at 14.0 on the way up when you were developing the load and then backed off to a level under that for safety.
Or did you start with a full case of powder and think you could back it off if it was too much :razz:

[357Mag]

Crabo -

Howdy !


If 14.5gr WW296 ( H110 ) and SP Mag primer under Lyman SWC of
158 - 172gr is TOO much; might I suggest........

7gr IMR4756 and SP primer under any Lyman SCW of 158-172gr.

Neither load has to be w/ a GC .

The IMR 4756 load was one I read from Skeeter Skelton, some years back.
He had in-mind a revolver application, but load seems to have enough oomph for a carbine. It's just a tad sooty, although; not too bad.

The 14.5gr WW296 has been my go-to load for over 30yr.
The "N"-frames I've had/have all love the load, and it worked superbly in my 1894SC too. ( Note: these loads not tried @ 100m )

These days, I'm having a blast w/ my M-336XLR .35Rem.... reduced loads @ 100.


With regards,
357Mag

[runfiverun]

now days, with the taurus bbl's, over.
432 ish and 454 boolit diameters are the numbers i hear constantly.
i quit buying the rossi rifles when taurus took over.

[1bluehorse]

All of the reloading data I've got suggests that that load would be over the max by at least 1gr - 1.5gr. If you saw signs of pressure shouldn't you have stopped at 14.0 on the way up when you were developing the load and then backed off to a level under that for safety.
Or did you start with a full case of powder and think you could back it off if it was too much :razz:

The Lee 2nd edition (which was what I was looking at) and another from an older issue of Handloader, both show 15.3gr as max with a 158gr. lead bullet. So I started at 14.5gr. Now I realize thats not 10% but close, so thought I was in a good start area. As you can see, I was incorrect...:bigsmyl2: in fact the 10% lower charge was a little high in this gun. The 162gr bullets I alluded to are actually 160gr. (typo) on my part. Pressure wise this load should only be in the 32, to 34,000psi range, which isn't a really high pressure 357 load. (except in this rifle evidently)I just need to figure out why..

Interestingly enough, just went and looked at the Lyman Cast Bullet book, it shows 15.5gr. max with 160gr. as does the Lazer Cast reloading handbook. I'm getting more confused by the minute..