Made more Ben's Red today

[Ben]

I made more Ben's Red today.

The usual formula :

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MIX THESE INGREDIENTS TOGETHER INSIDE YOUR HOME !

Here is the Lucas Red and Tacky about to be melted :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/002-43.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/001-37.jpg

Once all the components above are melted and mixed together, they were poured into a silicon baking pan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/003-36.jpg

When the lube reached room temp., I moved the silicon baking pan to the deep freezer for 1 hour.

The Ben's Red lube ingots came out of the mold with no problems at all :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/007-25.jpg





Here are links that should answer any questions shooters might have about making Ben's Red. *My comments & experiences and those who have experienced problems ( and the advice to correct their problems ) are included in the links below *:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=81031&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=162633&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=165796&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148898&highlight=bens+red


Considering the continued rising cost of bullet lubes at MidWay,see link below:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712801/saeco-alox-bullet-lube-stick-hollow

This lube that I made today will provide a lot of clean & accurate cast bullet shooting for me for many months to come.

I melt my lube and pour it into my lube sizers. These lube ingots can be cut easily with a utility knife and added to my lube pouring " soup can ".

Please watch the You Tube video of liquid lube being poured into my two lube sizers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5n68SrrUo&feature=youtu.be

Thanks,
Ben

[Ole]

Thank you for the recipe Ben.

I have used your lube (modified) for pan lubing and it works great for me. From what I've used it for, I just have to cut it with some lube I already had to get it to flow well around the bullets in the pan. Ben's red doesn't work for a pan lube well with my setup.

:drinks:

[Ben]

Thank you for the recipe Ben.

I have used your lube (modified) for pan lubing and it works great for me. From what I've used it for, I just have to cut it with some lube I already had to get it to flow well around the bullets in the pan. Ben's red doesn't work for a pan lube well with my setup.

:drinks:

I've found that the flow properties ( viscosity ) of lube made by cast bullet shooters varies greatly . Pan lube users want the lube to be softer & flow better, shooters in hot climates want just the opposite.

It is impossible for one lube recipe to please all expectations.

Each individual will have to " adjust " the lube viscosity to his own liking.

More beeswax added to the melt will make the lube harder, more Lucas Red and Tacky added will make the lube softer and make it flow better.

Ben

[geargnasher]

Being able to "tweak" a lube to one's specific preferences is one of the great things about making your own. This formula is on of the few that can be adjusted quite a bit without negatively affecting the performance of the lube itself.

I would like to see a "sticky" made of this. Ben, I know in the past you've outlined the process and tools you use to make your lube, how you mark your container with volume indicators, and a few other tidbits/tutorials in other threads. It would be great if you could sort of consolidate the creme-de-la-creme into this thread and perhaps we can implore the staff to make this a permanent fixture. What do you think?

Gear

[crawfobj]

Ben,

I've read nothing but great things about your formula and I'm considering making a batch. Have you run the numbers to see what a batch costs you and how much it yields? (Yes, that's the accountant/cheapskate in me showing through.)

[geargnasher]

14.5 oz Lucas Red'n'Tacky grease ~ $8
1 bottle STP Oil treatment~ $5
1 can JPW~ $8
1 quart Dexron III/Mercon ATF ~ $3
Beeswax per 3 pounds shipped ~ $18 from Randyrat

So a little less than two tubes grease would be needed to make abatch of lube using three pounds of wax, that comes right to $50 for about five pounds of Ben's Red.

Since standard lube sticks are, if memory serves me, 1.5 oz, and lubes are going for nearly $5 a stick these days plus shipping, and the sample batch amount I put up here yields 80 ounces of lube, or about 53 hollow sticks of lube, that's over $250 worth of lube for fifty bucks, some yard sale kitchen utensils, and a little of your time. So basically you make Ben's Red for 20% of the cost of regular lube, an 80% savings. The satisfaction of brewing your own? As they say, PRICELESS.

Gear

[btroj]

Not just making your own, being able to make it work for you!

Make it harder or softer. Make it better for pan lubing, make it less heat sensitive, make it better in the cold.

Yep, making your own is great.

[runfiverun]

ben has posted the directions for making this lube before.
and i have said this before.
for the love of god please follow the directions he posted for making this lube then make your changes.
on the long term bens red thread i posted another way to make this lube.
either way will work.
but don't just melt the stuff in a glop at 150* and stir for a minute because that will not work.

[geargnasher]

+1 Run. One thing I've learned here is most people don't seem to read and follow directions very well, which results in a lot of questions and confusion. Perhaps it has not been impressed upon them enough how much following the recipe and the directions MATTERS.

Gear

[Ben]

.
ben has posted the directions for making this lube before.
and i have said this before.
for the love of god please follow the directions he posted for making this lube then make your changes.
on the long term bens red thread i posted another way to make this lube.
either way will work.
but don't just melt the stuff in a glop at 150* and stir for a minute because that will not work.

I've been wanting to say that for months.
Looks like I won't have to say it now.

Grateful for your " To the point & concise comments".

People contact me after mixing 29 things in 17 different ways ( totally contrary to the directions ) and want to know why their lube that they have made didn't turn out well...? ?

If you can pass a 3rd grade Science test, you can easily make Ben's Red. It just isn't that hard.

I certainly don't mind helping people by answering any questions that I can, but if a person can't ( or won't ) follow simple directions, well...........

[Ben]

Gear :

Here are links that should answer any questions shooters might have about making Ben's Red. My comments & experiences and those who have experienced problems ( and the advice to correct their problems ) are included in the links below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=81031&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=81031

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=162633&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=165796&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148898&highlight=bens+red

[runfiverun]

if they really wanna know why it don't work that way they could spend about 12 hours reading the quest for the ultimate lube thread.
there is so much information in there that reading the links alone would take another 20 hours to sift through.
then the experimentation phase would take another year or two.

the proper cooking of the ingredients is what ties this whole thing together properly.

ben's red is very,very similar to my E-purple and L-purple lubes.
but i make thim with lithium and aluminum stearates and the cooking is quite bit more involved.
this is about the simplest way to get everything pre-made for you and have the hidden benefits of added oxidizers, long chain petroleum molecules, and enough tacky blended in right from the factory.
you can substitute a couple of different ingredients,but can you predict the outcome?
changing the stp out to something more lith based could result in a long stringy, extremly tacky, hard- soft spotted lube.
been there done that....

[Ben]

if they really wanna know why it don't work that way they could spend about 12 hours reading the quest for the ultimate lube thread.
there is so much information in there that reading the links alone would take another 20 hours to sift through.
then the experimentation phase would take another year or two.

the proper cooking of the ingredients is what ties this whole thing together properly.

ben's red is very,very similar to my E-purple and L-purple lubes.
but i make thim with lithium and aluminum stearates and the cooking is quite bit more involved.
this is about the simplest way to get everything pre-made for you and have the hidden benefits of added oxidizers, long chain petroleum molecules, and enough tacky blended in right from the factory.
you can substitute a couple of different ingredients,but can you predict the outcome?
changing the stp out to something more lith based could result in a long stringy, extremly tacky, hard- soft spotted lube.
been there done that....

Thank you very much for your input and comments.
I hope all of this will be a help to those interested in Ben's Red.

Ben

[41 mag fan]

This lube is a very good lube....easy to make and very adaptable to situations for different calibers. ( i think thats what i was meaning)
I've bet I've got enough made up to lube 100k of boolits.

It's very easy to make, just a little time...45 min to be exact, a conscience effort to watch and maintain the melting and combining process, and you'll have a lube that works excellent for almost every situation and caliber out there.

I've used it on everything in the hangun loads from hot loads on the 500 to pimple loads on the 38sp with excellent results.

You can easily tweak this lube to less tacky or more tacky by simply adding more JPW. I like mine to be a loittle more tacky after doing a few experiments with loads, so I added more JPW and a tad bit more Lucas R&T with good results that got me to what I was wanting.

IMO it's best to make a small batch per Bens directions, try it out, and if it's not up to what you're looking for try experimenting with it.
Thats the one of many nice things about this forum, something like this recipe of Bens Red from Ben, was provided to all of us in this community to try and instructions on making was feely given out at no cost.
Ben gave us a recipe to try out and see if we like or not. If it's not exactly what any of us weere looking for, we can experiment and post on here our results, so that someone else might come along and see the post and give it a shot and find it's what they were looking for.
One of the nice things of us all being a family on here.

[Ben]

41 mag fan,

Those are kind words, many thanks.
I know that you've always had great results out of Ben's Red.

I've never wanted to make a penny from the lube recipe.
It is free to all who would want to make it and use the lube .
If you make it and enjoy its use, wonderful.
If you make it and find it isn't what you're looking for, move
on down the road...........

I shot some Ben's Red today out of my Tikka.

How does it look like it is doing ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0672-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/001_zps00791b94.jpg

[GMT210]

Gearnasher,

Just FYI, found Red & Tacky at Home Depot for $5.95.

GMT210

[Idaho Mule]

Ben, run, and gear, you guys are the Best!! I am new, been a lurker for a while and finally got in. Thanks to you and all the others for sharing so much knowledge, I have learned so much from this site and absolutely love it. Will start on a batch of Ben,s Red soon.

[44man]

I don't want to search all over but there is one problem with the recipe not stated.
It is in percentages but what is not said is whether it is by weight or volume.
I found the grease for $5.88.

[btroj]

In Bens original thread on this lube he showed that he measures by volume.

I made mine measured by weight. It works very well, maybe a bit softer Han I normally like. I haven't changed the hardness because it is working.

I think the density of each item is similar enough that either by weight or volume gives about the same result.

[geargnasher]

The SG of waxes and oils are all less than one, beeswax being the most dense and the paraffin/napthenics in JPW being the lightest. We're talking less than five percent variance in mass/volume between all the ingredients, with the largest variance being with the beeswax, which will be in higher concentration if you measure by volume.

As a side note, "white" lithium greases, particularly those containing zinc oxide and organometallic zinc compounds, tend to be heavier than water (one).

Gear

[Sprue]

Without doing the... Home Work, what is the consistency of the recipe listed in Post #1.

Does this formula need to be heated or not ? I don't like to have to heat my lube. I live in Mid-Appalachia......... :coffeecom

[btroj]

I am not using heat with Bens Red at all. I size in my basement, temps in the 70 degree range. It flows quite easily at that temp.

[Ben]

btroj

I also lube in my basement.
In the winter, it can be below 70 degrees in my basement and Ben's Red still flows well in a lube sizer.

Ben

[runfiverun]

that's the easy part modifying the recipe.
make it first.
then add a little more trans fluid for more slippery.
or a little more grease for softer in the winter time use.

the opposite for the heat.
a bit less grease or a bit more b-wax for summer time use.

[Ben]

that's the easy part modifying the recipe.
make it first.
then add a little more trans fluid for more slippery.
or a little more grease for softer in the winter time use.

the opposite for the heat.
a bit less grease or a bit more b-wax for summer time use.

Thanks for covering this again.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone is reading any of this ? ?
A few of us seem to be answering the same questions over and over.

Gear , - is it time to make a " Stickey " on this subject ?
_________________


Here are links that should answer any questions shooters might have about making Ben's Red. My comments & experiences and those who have experienced problems ( and the advice to correct their problems ) are included in the links below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=81031&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=162633&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=165796&highlight=bens+red

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148898&highlight=bens+red

[44man]

In Bens original thread on this lube he showed that he measures by volume.

I made mine measured by weight. It works very well, maybe a bit softer Han I normally like. I haven't changed the hardness because it is working.

I think the density of each item is similar enough that either by weight or volume gives about the same result.
Thank you for that, makes it easier.
A lot to do before I can find time to go through the links and make the lube.
I can't wait to try it.

[geargnasher]

Thanks, whoever stickied this!!

Gear

[Bigslug]

Now that this information is safe in Sticky Land (or possibly Red & Tacky Land). . .I've read all I can find on this lube, and have a few questions:

1. Has anybody stuck a candy thermometer into a bowl of heated R&T to determine at exactly what point the stuff liquifies? OR. . .has anybody checked the temperatures of the other ingredients to see at what point they'll start combining with the R&T? Seems like these numbers haven't been tracked down. The fellow with the toaster oven was probably the closest to something like this, but his numbers were oven settings, rather than the actual ingredient temperatures.

2. On one of the earlier threads it was suggested to make minimalist batches of Ben's Red that left out the tranny fluid, STP, and even the JPW to see just how critical those were to the finished product. I could not find anything stating that this had been done. Has it?

3. (Probably for Professor Geargnasher) I looked up the MSDS for Johnson's Paste Wax, which states that the ingredients are 5-10% by weight of carnauba, 10-30% paraffin wax, and 75-85% "isoparaffinic hydrocarbon solvent" which I assume to be whatever "stuff" is used to keep JPW a "paste wax" instead of a "block wax". While the success of the lube seems to speak for itself, I'm curious as to what this solvent is doing for or against the final product. Since Johnson's seems a little sloppy with their percentages, could swapping out the JPW with a 2-1 (or other) mix of canning paraffin and carnauba flakes give us a means of generating more consistent results from batch to batch?

[btroj]

I heated mine only enough to get things to mix then I held the heat for close to 30 minutes with occasional stirring. I was left with a few small lumps of grease but not many. I filtered it thru an old t-shirt to eliminate those lumps. Works very well. I don't want to heat it hot enough to melt the grease, that kind of heat would scare me a bit. I also don't know how well the other ingredients would handle the heat. Gentle heat and time are your friends.

The solvents in the JPW will evaporate long before the lune is fully mixed. The heat and time required to get it to mix well will ensure the solvents are gone. As for the variations in JPW listed in the MSDS I doubt the formula varies that much. Wonder if that is to protect proprietary info and to account for some evaporation in storage/shipment? Either way, I don't think it is going to matter much. The JPW percentage in the final lube is minimal so a 10 percent difference in the JPw formula may end up being a .25 percent change in final formula- not gonna matter.


Anyone wanting to make some- be sure to do it outside or in a garage with the doors open and a fan blowing. Tha grease does stink things up a bit when heated. Not something I would do in my wife's kitchen.

[Ben]

Bigslug

I'm sorry, but I'm unable to answer ANY of your 3 questions.

My routine is identical to btroj's :

I heated mine only enough to get things to mix then I held the heat for close to 30 minutes with occasional stirring. I was left with a few small lumps of grease but not many. I filtered it thru an old t-shirt to eliminate those lumps.


I , like others, would NEVER consider making this lube inside your home !

Ben

[Ben]

Gear,

No_1 ( Robert ) made this into a Sticky for us.
Many thanks to Robert for his help.

Hopefully , members can go to one location now for information related to Ben's Red.

Thanks again to all for your help,

Ben

[No_1]

I am not the only one. I offered, another moderator stuck it in between the time I left work and got home then I cleaned it up a little

[runfiverun]

the melt point of the grease is either 350-f or just over 500-f
i'm betting it being a #2 it's just over 350-f
i haven't made the ben's red but in making a quite similar lube [E-purple] i leave out the [jpw] carnuba.
and substitute micro parrafin.
i do however add in mineral spirits to the initial mix to replicate the cooked off solvents.
the atf and stp contain booster ingredients to the red and tacky,and the atf adds the glide necessary for lubrication at lower temperatures,
it's a poe and it reacts with the fats in the carnuba to keep it in a softer condition.

the solvents are also acting as a plasticizer to the parrafinics in the jpw keeping it soft and malleable even though they are cooked off they have allready modified the carbon chain of the parrafin.
adding in the stp will take thier place as the plasticizer it also has a tacky ingredient similar if not the same as the one in the lucas to help hold everything together.

much of this has been covered in the lube quest thread especially the carnuba poe relationship [around page 250],and the adding/subtracting solvents [somewhere around page 150]
and the tacky is right near the last pages.

[Ben]

runfiverun :

I'm certainly not smart enough to figure out that each of the components in Ben's Red would be doing all those things the way they do, so I can only attribute the success of the lube to pure old poker luck.

Ben

[Bigslug]

Bigslug

I'm sorry, but I'm unable to answer ANY of your 3 questions.

My routine is identical to btroj's :

I heated mine only enough to get things to mix then I held the heat for close to 30 minutes with occasional stirring. I was left with a few small lumps of grease but not many. I filtered it thru an old t-shirt to eliminate those lumps.




No worries. My wife is a foodie, and I've absorbed a lot of her food science thinking through proximity and osmosis. It just seemed natural that a candy thermometer (or lead pot thermometer) would have a place in the lube-cooking game. When boiling sugars, there are temperature ranges that determine where you get caramels, fudges, hard candies, etc... Knowing the "goo point" for certain ingredients might help in how and when they get mixed together.

As for dealing with the unyielding lumps of R&T - I believe that a MODIFIED kitchen whisk is the answer. For some cooking project or another, my wife had me cut the looped portions of the whisk wires, so what we were left with was basically a bundle of straight wires. This particular whisk had a metal disk with holes in it that each wire ran through - this served to keep the wires spread out. I can't yet say how it performs on hot grease, but on various batters it is a lump-busting madman.

If there's a kitchen immersion blender that can take the heat involved, that would be a natural choice, so long as splash precautions are taken.

[Ben]

Several have used a wisk with success to get the red and tacky to fully liquefy.

Ben

[turmech]

Don't know if this will answer the temp questions.

I made some and was using a thermometer in the mix while heating it (I did not want to get the beeswax to hot). I heated the mix all together on low on a hot plate cooked it for approx 30 to 45 min. temp never got above 211 degrees F. In fact most of the time it stayed at 170. The red and tacky was all liq. before the beeswax. I think this kept the temps in the 165 to 170 range as the temps only climbed after the last of the beeswax had melted. All the other ingredient had already liquified before the beeswax. Looking back I wish I would have cut the beeswax up into smaller pieces prior to putting it in the pot.

I did not think it smelled bad either maybe my nose and thermometer are both broke. Also measured the mix by weight. I set my pot on a postal scale and added all the ingredient at the beginning then heated slow.

[runfiverun]

i just use a regular from the second hand shop electric blender with kinda matching beaters.
for the initial heating/melting stages a hand wisk is used to keep things moving.
but as soon as everything is melted in comes te electric and off the heat it comes.
if i am adding more lithium stearates to the greases i have to have temps over 450-f,not only to melt some of the greases, but to incorporate the stearate.
a general blending at about 225-f will usually allow all the components to break down and re-form into a homogenous blend.

[MikeyPooh]

So after reading yet another Bens Red thread, I decided I would begin gathering ingredients to make some for myself. I got a tube of the Red n Tacky at my local parts store, and right on the front of it it says "540 degree F Drop Point."

So, I'm guessing that means it won't fully liquefy til that temperature...

[Ben]

MikeyPooh :

I've melted my fair share of Lucas Red and Tacky grease. I'm very " low tech " and don't use a thermometer.

I can't tell you the exact temp that it melts, but in my opinion it is considerably lower than your figure of 540 degrees F .

Gee,.... that is only 100 degrees away from the melting point of lead.

Ben

[MikeyPooh]

Heh, it's not my figure, but it is perhaps my misinterpretation of what it means... after I saw what runfiverun said about melting temps of grease, I made some assumptions...

http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2111/img7027600x800.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/img7027600x800.jpg/)

[Ben]

MikeyPooh

After reading that label, I can easily see how you would make that assumption.

I just don't want someone reading this & feeling that they have to generate 540 degrees under Red and Tacky grease before it will begin to melt.

Ben

[Ben]

MikeyPooh

I'm not certain what " Drop Point " actually means ?
It could mean the temp at which the grease is unable
to dependably lubricate the parts ?

Ben

[MikeyPooh]

Oh heck I have no idea, lol, I just saw the conversation about the temp to totally liquefy and saw my label, I thought maybe Lucas JUST changed their packaging and no one had seen it yet, so I figured I'd throw it out here for all the lube experts to have a peek at.

[BigHoss74]

This is what the Lucas site had to say about "drop point"
What does drop point mean?

**Drop point is the temperature at which the oil "drops out" or separates from the soap. Plain grease drops out between 300 and 350 degrees. Fast moving parts often generate temperatures far in excess of that. Lucas Hi-Temperature Grease drops out at temperatures in excess of 540 degrees. That's about as high as you can go and still maintain good lubricity but it should be high enough for virtually any situation. The dropping point should be one of the main considerations when shopping for grease.

[runfiverun]

the higher temp means it's suited for more severe duty, the red and tacky could be used in wheel bearings and not just for chassis grease.
the 540 is the point at which the stearate used to gel the oil into grease melts.
the whole thing will melt at a lower temp.
but if you want to gel the base oil into grease, you need 540-f for the stearate to do it.

[375RUGER]

pages and pages of how to make and not make BsR lube.
One report of using it at 2000fps.
Has anyone pushed it to 2700+ yet? or even 2500?

[Ben]

375RUGER :

I've read no reports of anyone shooting Ben's Red at 2,700 fps ?

However, I'd be interested in seeing a qualified report on that topic .

Ben

[Bigslug]

375RUGER :

I've read no reports of anyone shooting Ben's Red at 2,700 fps ?

However, I'd be interested in seeing a qualified report on that topic .


Awww. . .c'mon Ben! After all those tantalizing photos of your .30 caliber groups, you mean to tell us you've never gone for 2700? Shovel some more coal in that boiler and get back to us! :kidding:

Though I'm thinking if you've got obturation and lube both figured out, there won't be a problem.

[btroj]

I haven't gone past 2150 with it, no problems.

[Ben]

Bigslug

Didn't Clint Eastwood say..........." A man has got to know his limitations ! "

[Bigslug]

Yes. . .but he must FIND them first. :bigsmyl2:

[btroj]

Ok, about limitations. I have been using Bens Red in a 375 H&H. A 270 gr bullet at 2100 is bearable to shoot for group off the bench. Push that same bullet over 2500 and it quickly stops being fun.

I find it much easier to shoot groups wi mild recoil than I do with heavy recoil. Ben's -06 at 1700 fps is enjoyable, crank it up to 2400 and the fun just seems to go away.

I know my limitations. I may try a few cast at higher velocities, I just won't shoot many groups. My limitations are based far more on fun than they are velocity.

[Ben]

+ 1 on btroj's remarks above.

If I want someone to beat me up, I'll hire a prize fighter to do it .

Shooting for me ( at my age ) should be and must be fun for me to continue to do it. I went through the need for the belted mags, & light - speed velocities many yrs. ago. I'm glad I'm finished with all that.

Yes, 1,700 fps with great accuracy in one of my favorite .30 cal. rifles makes for a very enjoyable fall afternoon.

If someone else wants to head in some other direction with their experimentation and goals , that is also fine....I seem to have settled on the areas that I enjoy. Wish I'd found this kind of joy in shooting yrs. ago.

Ben

[Bigslug]

OK. . .this is really funny; the outer envelope for lube testing at velocity has been set due to dislike of recoil, NOT fear of leading, as it would be on any other shooting forum. Hee!

I guess I'm going shopping for a hot plate and some Christmas-colored grease this weekend. . .:mrgreen:

[waksupi]

OK. . .this is really funny; the outer envelope for lube testing at velocity has been set due to dislike of recoil, NOT fear of leading, as it would be on any other shooting forum. Hee!

I guess I'm going shopping for a hot plate and some Christmas-colored grease this weekend. . .:mrgreen:

That's because there are experienced shooters here, not kids seeing how high they can pee on the wall!

[Wal']

That's because there are experienced shooters here, not kids seeing how high they can pee on the wall!

+1 :bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2: :castmine:

[btroj]

Recoil also tends to make small groups a bit tougher to shoot.

I also could care less how well a lube works in a velocity/pressure range where I will never use it.

A good lube is one that meets the needs of the person using it. Not sure how much more simply I can state it. Bens Lube has met my needs in all applications I have used it in so far, therefor I consider it a good lube. Really is that simple.

[Ben]

Bens Lube has met my needs in all applications I have used it in so far, therefor I consider it a good lube. Really is that simple

I could not have said it better btroj..........

Ben

[tonyjones]

Ben,

What range of temperatures have you successfully used Ben's Red in? I live in Houston, TX and suspect our respective climates are similar. A single lube that works for rifle and handgun at temperatures from 40 to 85 degrees farenheit will cover about 99% of my shots.

Thanks and regards,

Tony

[runfiverun]

it'll do 40 to 85 no problems.
if staying above 40 all the time and temps are gonna be near 100 quite often you can add 3% carnuba to the mix for better high temp applications.
i wish my shooting temps were 40-85,another couple of weeks and i won't see 40-f for 4-5 months.

[btroj]

I will have a chance soon to see how BR handles 30 to 50 degree weather.

If I decide I really need to I can even see how it does at lower temps but I don't enjoy shooting in the cold too much. It just stops being fun.

[Ben]

Tony ,

Yes, I'd think that our weather in summer and winter would be very similar.

I've killed deer with Ben's Red with my .30 cal. rifles on a 15 degree day in January. I've also shot and " punched paper " on a 101 degree day with a hot barrel in August with Ben's Red.

I'm pleased with the very hot and the very cold with respect to Ben's Red performance. I don't alter mine for summer shooting and winter shooting, I shoot the same lube.

Ben

[tonyjones]

Ben,

Thanks. Have you found grouping to be the same at "our" temperature extremes or do groups open up a bit? My paper punching is done between 40 & 85 degrees F. I hunt some in colder weather but my accuracy requirements are not the same: minute of dead deer or hog will do. When our temps are between 90 & 120 I prefer an iced tea and my A/C.

Regards,

Tony

[geargnasher]

The best way to discover the answers to so many of the questions asked here is simply to try it and see. I'm sure there are and will be many newbie lube chefs perusing this thread with the same sort of questions, and right now there seem to be more questions than answers due to the wide diversity of applications for any boolit lube. Get out there and test this stuff, guys!

For what it's worth, I've done some limited testing of Ben's original recipe as-is from 40 to 100 F, from 700 to 2200 fps in .30 to .45 bore and have found it to be superior in every way to NRA 50/50.

Gear

[Ben]

Thanks. Have you found grouping to be the same at "our" temperature extremes or do groups open up a bit? My paper punching is done between 40 & 85 degrees F. I hunt some in colder weather but my accuracy requirements are not the same: minute of dead deer or hog will do. When our temps are between 90 & 120 I prefer an iced tea and my A/C.

Regards,

Tony

-------------------------------------------------------------

I've not noticed any " wild fliers " or blown groups at the temp extremes that I could expect to find in my state.

I'm happy with Ben's Red in any temperatures I'm likely to encounter here in AL.

Ben

[tonyjones]

Thanks Ben.

TJ

[DukeInFlorida]

I'm delighted to see that the powers to be (here at CastBoolits, the most wonderful place in the interweb) have elected to place this thread in the highly respected place of honor, STICKIES and CLASSICS!

Thank you Ken, et al.

[btroj]

I sot some 375 today with BR, temp was in the mid fifties. First shot was right where it belonged at 50 yards offhand.

Alloy was a bit softer than I had been using in th past. I don't know the BHn but would say it was in the 15 range. Velocities of 2100 gave zero leading and great accuracy.

What more do we need?

[Net_Ranger101]

yep now im going to have to give this a try im tired of paying midway 9 $ for a small stick of lube
im assuming that this will probability make a lot considering the amount the individual components are sold in

[Net_Ranger101]

yep now im going to have to give this a try im tired of paying midway 9 $ for a small stick of lube
im assuming that this will probability make a lot considering the amount the individual components are sold in

[375RUGER]

Don't know if this applies to all AutoZones, they had 3 tubes of the lucas red and tacky for $10 in my local store.

[Ben]

375RUGER

3 tubes of the lucas red and tacky for $10 in my local store.


WOW, now you're talking
a LOT of bullet lube !

Ben

[Ola]

Ben, we do not have all of those incredients here in northern Europe.

Johnsons Paste Wax: could it substituted with something? Take a look at these: www.liberon.com.au/?act=products&cat=15
The Furniture Wax Paste sounds like something similar..

The transmission fluid. Can I use any brand or is there something special in those you mention in the recipe?

Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease. Is any high temp bearing grease ok? With lithium?

[Ben]

Ola

Of course it would be nice if you could find all the ingredients in Ben's Red there locally, but it sounds as if that isn't going to be possible.

I feel that your " alternatives " you've listed above would most likely make a pretty good bullet lube.

Why don't you make about 1/2 kilogram of it using my %'s in the original recipe and report back to us?
---------------------------------------
50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment
----------------------------------------
Yes, just about any kind of trans. fluid will work just fine.

Ben

[375RUGER]

375RUGER

3 tubes of the lucas red and tacky for $10 in my local store.


WOW, now you're talking
a LOT of bullet lube !

Ben

And yeh, I bought the 3 tubes. 3 was cheaper than buying 2. Do you think I can lube a couple dozen 7mm boolits with it? or should I go get another 3 tubes? :wink:

[Ben]

" a couple dozen " .......Ha

You can make a " wash tub full " of lube with those 3 tubes of Red and Tacky.

I just wish you could get all the beeswax to mix with the Red and Tacky for the same price.

Ben

[Net_Ranger101]

made a batch of Ben's red wow that's a lot of lube 6 cups of beeswax
now all i have to do is pore it into a 1' mold etc.... for the lubersizer
i sticked to Ben's formula i figure if it works why change it

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_22022507a44b30e92c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7030)

[Ben]

Net_Ranger101

That looks good.
Keep us posted with your results.

Ben

[357maximum]

Looks like your forgot the beans and the burger. :lol:

[Net_Ranger101]

owww man this stuff is stinking up the house the wife is going to be pissed heheheheheh

[Net_Ranger101]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_22022507b0e2b2268a.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7043)

i made the lube two soft looks like ill have to go buy more beeswax ow darn hehehe

[Ben]

Net_Ranger101

Additional beeswax will allow you the hardness you desire.

This is one of the beauties of this lube. By applying the " equation "below, you'll have little or no impact on the lube's performance in a barrel with your cast bullets, but you will change the hardness of the lube at room temperature.

More Red and tacky = softer lube.
More Beeswax = harder lube.

By the way, don't know how much you're read regarding the making of Ben's Red , but MANY of us have begged people not to attempt to make Ben's Red indoors.

Ben

[Net_Ranger101]

you could make it indoors just as long as you have good ventilation box fan and all the windows open
after the lube set up i couldn't smell it anyway ( not sure if i killed my scene of smell hehe)
its not that bad Ive delt with much worse

[357maximum]

Make sure you give it a full day before you decide if it is to hard or not. Many times you can misjudge a lubes softness by judging prematurely.

[Net_Ranger101]

I'm assuming that would be to allow the lube to get to room temps

i let it sit out last night and this morning it seemed two soft
( I get 110 deg. summer and very mild wint)
na its just lube its not rocket science.
will have to wait tell mon. anyway the beekeeper in town is closed on Sunday

[Bigslug]

Got some new mixing data for y'all today. Made my first batch.

I used gwpercle's recipe for using an entire tube of grease - except I went by weight on the grease, beeswax, and JPW, and by volume on the liquid STP and ATF:

24 oz beeswax
14 oz Lucas RT
4.6 oz JPW
5 1/3 tablespoons STP
5 1/3 tablespoons ATF

For the transmission fluid, I used Penzoil High Mileage, which claims to meet the GM Dexron III specs.

Threw it all into a 3-quart saucepan with a lid on top initially to keep the heat in, and set my hotplate to the #1 (out of 5) setting. Stirred occasionally with a spatula, a standard whisk, and another whisk with the rounded ends of the wires cut off to leave ends better for breaking up the anticipated lumps. Ran with a candy thermometer to see the point at which things came together.

Well, I'm now puzzled as to what all the fuss has been about, because all the ingredients were completely homogeneous within 45 minutes to an hour at around 180 F with no lumps, blobs, unmixed puddles, need to strain anything through a filter, or noxious clouds of smoke. I let the temperature get up to about 220 F, but figured whatever was going to happen already had, and shut the burner down.

I let a bit of it harden up on the silicone spatula. It developed a nice sheen that easily takes your fingerprint. It acts in that not-quite-ice-cream way of JPW when you try to scrape it with a fingernail or spoon - only way I know to describe it. Seems like a good consistency for a non-heated lubrisizer product.

This stuff turned out more salmon or uncooked hamburger then red - a function of the beeswax or Penzoil ATF, I'm guessing. Eager to see how it works - I filled up the five 5" PVC molds that I made in anticipation of this event, and probably have enough lube to fill them all up at least twice more. Hopefully, I'm set for a while.

[Ben]

Fine.....now head to the range and report back after you've
" given it a test drive " .

Ben

[olaf455]

Do you summer off all of the solvents from the Johnson's paste wax, or leave them in?



Sent from a cold damp basement near you.

[Ben]

I don't make any attempt to cook off the solvents.

Ben

[DLCTEX]

I made a batch today and it looks great. I melted the bees wax, then added the R&T using a whisk to break it up and incorporate the two, then the JPW whisked in, followed by Dexron and STP. I followed the formula exactly and am very happy with what I see. I then made a mould to form hollow sticks for the lubesizer and will remelt and pour into the moulds tomorrow if the wife doesn't find too much honeydo. Thanks Ben!

[fatnhappy]

Thanks for making me feel like an idiot Ben. I watched your video filling the lubersizers. All these years I've been using a funnel.

[Ben]

fatnhappy ,

My apologies,............ it certainly was not my intentions.

Best,
Ben
_______________________

DLCTEX ,

Glad that Ben's Red is working well for you.

Ben

[Marlin Junky]

Ben,

What made you decided to incorporate JPW into the formula?

MJ

[Ben]

I had read that some people used JPW at low velocity on .38 Wadcutters .

It didn't lead.

I had also read that JPW had carnuba wax in the mix, few would argue that carnuba wax isn't good in a lube.

I thought.....UUmmmmm, just maybe that needs to be included also ?

I'll admit that Ben's Red is a " Witches Brew", but it works !

Ben

[Marlin Junky]

I had read that some people used JPW at low velocity on .38 Wadcutters .

It didn't lead.

I had also read that JPW had carnuba wax in the mix, few would argue that carnuba wax isn't good in a lube.

I'll admit that Ben's Red is a " Witches Brew", but it works !

Ben

Ben,

So how does Ben's Red work without the JPW? It seems from your load data, that most (if not all) the targets you've posted over time were shot using ammo generating < 1800 fps. Have you shot Ben's Red at over 2000 fps?

Actually, I'm one of those who's not convinced Carnauba is an indispensable lube ingredient.

MJ

[Ben]

MJ

I've never made Ben's Red without the JPW. I guess I'm from the school " If it isn't broke, don't be trying to fix it."

As to shooting > 2,000 fps, I've done limited testing in that zone with Ben's Red & the lube did just fine. Others here have more experience in that speed zone than I do. Maybe some of them will contribute their findings here also.

As far as Carnauba being indispensable , I can't say ? For the applications I use Ben's Red in, I have no evidence that it harms anything.

Thanks,
Ben

[tonyjones]

Ben,

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know the approximate amount of carnauba wax in Ben's Red? I believe that CW is a help in high temperatures even though it may leave a residue in the bore. According to 357maximum, I and others here live next to the gates of hell (Texas).

The IMPORTANT thing is that it WORKS!

Best regards,

Tony

[olaf455]

Ben,

I and others here live next to the gates of hell

Tony

come on now, that's no way to talk about Mexico...lol...

Sent from a cold damp basement near you.

[Ben]

I have no remote idea of how much CW is in Ben's Red .

I have my doubts that anyone else could " guesstimate " it either.

Ben

[Marlin Junky]

Ben,

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know the approximate amount of carnauba wax in Ben's Red? I believe that CW is a help in high temperatures even though it may leave a residue in the bore. According to 357maximum, I and others here live next to the gates of hell (Texas).

The IMPORTANT thing is that it WORKS!

Best regards,

Tony

Tony,

If you already have a good working lube, in order to significantly raise its melt temp by the addition of Carnauba alone, you will probably ruin your lube; i.e., it will become too hard, dry, brittle and loose its tack. Better ways to raise a lube's melt temp is through the use of soap and/or soap based greases.

MJ

[DLCTEX]

Thanks for making me feel like an idiot Ben. I watched your video filling the lubersizers. All these years I've been using a funnel.

OK, I give up. Where is a link or even a reference to a video. I've looked high and low.

[Ben]

DLCTEX

RE : Video - - Pouring liquid lube into a lube sizer

Is this what you're looking for :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5n68SrrUo

[DLCTEX]

That's it Ben. Thanks. I used the same type can to fill my lube stick moulds.

[tonyjones]

I checked the MSDS for JPW on the S. C. Johnson web site and found that carnauba wax is 5% to 10% by weight. If JPW is 10% of Ben's Red then the CW should be about .5% to 1% of the lube contents. This will vary a bit based upon whether one formulates by weight or by volume, loss by cooking off solvents, etc. If anyone cares, there you have it.

Regards,

Tony

[Ben]

Thanks Tony,

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

I'm a big advocate of this lube and following the recipe strict, but I made a new batch over Christmas and I found something.

The grease is the hardest thing to melt down, it gets lumpy and it'll scorchif you get it too hot right? Well, I melted my JPW and let it cook off a bit, then added my STP and ATF to the JPW, all the while getting my grease started in the toaster oven. It was flowing but not melted. I poured the JPW, ATF, STP mix into the grease and it liquified in short order. No lumps no air bubbles, just nice. I added my beeswax and put it back in the oven for a minute then stirred like a witch over a cauldron for a few minutes. It's perfect. I've got to go back to it with some more beeswax to stiffenit up a bit, this batch is for rifles and I'd like it a little harder.


Maybe you guys already do this I don't know, but I've always melted each component individually and added it to the beeswax.

[DLCTEX]

I lubed some boolits with it in my lubesizer yesterday and it worked with no extra heat in my cold reloading room. We had been down to 16* and I'd had the heat in the room on for about 20 minutes. The lubesizer was still cold as ice. This makes me think it will be a good cold weather lube. I intend to shoot some today, but it will tell me nothing as it's pistol rounds and a couple new to me moulds so I won't have any accuracy comparisons as far as lube goes.

[taco650]

Does this work good in a pan lube application or should I use Ben's Blue?

[Ben]

Does this work good in a pan lube application or should I use Ben's Blue?

I'd think you'd be just fine with Ben's Red.

Ben

[taco650]

I'd think you'd be just fine with Ben's Red.

Ben

Thanks for the response.

Also, I live in GA and the summers are hot and muggy (and buggy lol!) so does this lube dry hard enough to not get sticky in southern summers? One more thing, have you done a recent cost comparison with current prices of the base materials compared to "store bought" lubes? I realize this will vary some from region to region but you made up this recipe so long ago I'm just wondering if its still more cost effective to make it from scratch as opposed to letting Midway assault my credit card.

[Ben]

taco650

Also, I live in GA and the summers are hot and muggy (and buggy lol!) so does this lube dry hard enough to not get sticky in southern summers? It is just as hot here in Alabama as it is in GA in the summers. I don't have any problems with the lube. One more thing, have you done a recent cost comparison with current prices of the base materials compared to "store bought" lubes? NO I realize this will vary some from region to region but you made up this recipe so long ago I'm just wondering if its still more cost effective to make it from scratch as opposed to letting Midway assault my credit card.

[AZ-JIM]

One more thing, have you done a recent cost comparison with current prices of the base materials compared to "store bought" lubes?

I made my first batch this last weekend, and for under $40 I got the components to make 2 lbs of lube and I had to get a pan and measuring cup, stirring utensils...( go to he dollar store for the widgets)
I have read nothing but good about this lube and look forward to trying it, hopefully this weekend.

az-jim

[taco650]

Ben and others,

Thanks for the replies. For $40 I'll have more lube than I know what to do with, ha ha. A lot of that will be first time setup costs like the utensils, pots, etc.

[Ben]

If you truly have more than you'd need, why don't you sell some of it here on the Swapping Selling Forum to people who might be interested in buying it.

[taco650]

If you truly have more than you'd need, why don't you sell some of it here on the Swapping Selling Forum to people who might be interested in buying it.

I would be willing to purchase another members excess if they had it, at least for the first batch just so I don't screw up the mix or if I decide I don't like it (really doubt it judging by all the positive reviews but...). If someone has extra they want to sell, send me a PM.

[grampa243]

you would not believe how long i looked in the "Boolit Lube !" forum. trying to find this thread. then i realize it's in "Classics & Stickies"

lol well i'm about to make my first batch of Ben's Red now that i got the recipe :)

[DLCTEX]

I recommend that you use a whisk, it eliminated the need for straining it through a T shirt. Don't borrow one from your wife, though. I can't get it all off.

[DLCTEX]

[smilie=s:I fired 50 or so rounds through an M 1 carbine this week lubed with Ben's Red. Good accuracy, no leading, shiny bore. Lee 125 gr. boolit sized .311 over 12 gr. H-110. 25 rounds through 30-30 Marlin, 170 gr Lee boolit, about 1900 fps with R-7 powder. Same results. Great lube.[smilie=s:

[Ben]

DLCTEX

Don't borrow one from your wife, though.

I believe I hear the voice of WISDOM speaking loudly here !

[crabo]

I think this thread should be moved back to the lube section. You have to think too hard to remember to check it here. After I use up my TAC 1 I am going to make a batch of this.

[jonp]

Do you think any high temp grease would work? We get it in a drum at work to grease our semi's. We get a few different types of grease from 5th Wheel grease to axle and other types. I could get a small pail from the left overs in the barrels for free.

[w5pv]

I use the plastic ice trays for molds,three will suffice with enough left in the cooking pot for several hundred rounds.

[Ben]

Do you think any high temp grease would work? We get it in a drum at work to grease our semi's. We get a few different types of grease from 5th Wheel grease to axle and other types. I could get a small pail from the left overs in the barrels for free.

You could make a 2 pound quantity of the lube and substitute your High temp grease.

Test and evaluate it and report back.

Ben

[Win94ae]

I finally find the recipe! I searched for awhile yesterday, but only found threads mentioning the name.

Thank you!

[JWFilips]

Well Just to be sure sure I made my batch of Ben's Red the way Ben Makes it . I even went so far as to create his gradated melting pot. ( I wasn't going to take any chances) So I guess you can say I'm using the liquid volume method.
One thing to note: If you heat everything together as Ben originally stated and mix the heck out of it ( I'm talking 20 + minutes of constant stirring), everything will go into solution and there will be no lumps of R&T in the mix & you need not strain.
The problem is that during the melt you will see lighter globs of the R&T show up like little pieces of "tapioca" but by constant stirring
At LOW heat the will finally disappear If you heat is too high you will see smoke ( Not good) Keep it low & have patience.

Well now for the shooting Finally I tried out this mix on my newly aquired 357446 & 358311 Old ideal moulds Boolits
Just super! In my 38 special Mod 15 S&W excellent accuracy. In my Pre-27 S&W 357 mag the same
The 38 special were light load (3.2 BE) In the .357 mag 13 to 14 gr 2400 No leading! Yes there is some smoke and the guns do take on a slick feel to the metal after a few cylinders are fired. But the clean up is very easy. I use my of Gunsmithing recipie for cast boolit shooting of one part Hoppes # 9, one part Kano Kroil & one part "pure" gum turpentine. One or two patches & they are clean.
I don't have a lubersizer so I have been pan lubing & yes there is a problem trying to get the lube to flow around the boolits at a low temp! Especially with the 357446 & it's two lube grooves. I started to pour then move the lube around with some "canned air" on the hot plate at dead level. Level or not it just doesn't go where you want it to. The canned air will move it around to level off the flow.
OK That was my 2 Cents Not sure if I helped

Oh Yeah Just another Note: Again only my observations: If at any time you heat it and it smells really bad you over did it. When I feel it is done right I just get a mild chemical smell coming out of it. How do I know well if you pan lube & are patient for the mix to flow It will not smell nasty ...However if you want it to melt & flow fast you will get a very pungent smell! I think this is over heated and is a bad thing! I'm not sure maybe the real lube chemists will pipe in on this

[Ben]

JWFilips :

You may want to know that the Official Ben's Lube Conglomerate Consortium has just awarded you an A + for your willingness to read and follow directions.

See, ............good things come at the end when you do it right !

Congratulations ! !

Ben

[Bigslug]

I just remixed the first batch of Ben's Red I made. . .what? . . .the best part of a year ago? Great lube, but simply too gooey for my liking. The lube that didn't make it into stick molds just stayed hardened up as a big puck in the pan until today when I knocked it out, weighed it, and threw in a extra few ounces of beeswax to bring that ingredient up to 55-56% of the total. Initial impression is that it's still a soft lube, but better at holding it's shape when lightly touched. Poured it all out into 26 sticks today, and the last bit straight into the sizer. Got to run the the last of the old, soft-serve version out of the bottom before I see how well it works.

What I THINK I've got is juuuuuust soft enough to run through the sizer without plugging the heater in. That bit is TO BE CONTINUED.

Another thing to report - the lube seems to be quite happily compatible with Hodgdon's Triple 7 black powder substitute.

[41 mag fan]

[QUOTE=JWFilips;2360452]Well Just to be sure sure I made my batch of Ben's Red the way Ben Makes it . I even went so far as to create his gradated melting pot. ( I wasn't going to take any chances) So I guess you can say I'm using the liquid volume method.
One thing to note: If you heat everything together as Ben originally stated and mix the heck out of it ( I'm talking 20 + minutes of constant stirring), everything will go into solution and there will be no lumps of R&T in the mix & you need not strain.
The problem is that during the melt you will see lighter globs of the R&T show up like little pieces of "tapioca" but by constant stirring
At LOW heat the will finally disappear If you heat is too high you will see smoke ( Not good) Keep it low & have patience.

JW,
You strain that lube, you'll find chunks. The only way to avoid the chunks and not have any is a total melting of R&T. Which means a 35+ minute time frame on a med heat that works up to med/high heat.
Only this will totally break down the chunks, when the R&T goes to a liquid state.
When melted together like you describe, and as I have done too, you'll get a cloaking of the chunks of R&T that has not melted.
The beeswax cloaks the chunks, which is the stearates that have not broken down yet.
Those chunks will be small enough, if using a cast with a good sized lube groove, will mitigate to that lube groove. In the end, you'll have a chunk of R&T in part of your groove, and the rest of the groove will be the lube as intended to make.

[just_shooter]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?

[crabo]

Approximately how much is the unliquified amount of JPW? How much do I need to have on hand?

[Ben]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?

I've never done it ( 2,500 fps in a .223 ) , you try it and report back with your findings.

Ben

[Yodogsandman]

Approximately how much is the unliquified amount of JPW? How much do I need to have on hand?

My best guess is one can of JPW would make about 1.25 gallons of lube. I made a 10 cup recipe and used about half a can.

[just_shooter]

I've never done it ( 2,500 fps in a .223 ) , you try it and report back with your findings.

Ben

I live in Europe and collecting ingredients would cost me about $100 or so. In some reason we don't have Johnson's Paste Wax, can't find Lucas red lithium grease also. Importing these from US rising the price too much unfortunately, so I'll be very grateful if somebody share experience where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red before I spend the money.

[62chevy]

I live in Europe and collecting ingredients would cost me about $100 or so. In some reason we don't have Johnson's Paste Wax, can't find Lucas red lithium grease also. Importing these from US rising the price too much unfortunately, so I'll be very grateful if somebody share experience where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red before I spend the money.

What I would do is find the MSDS for both products on the internet and look for something local that is the same or similar.

[just_shooter]

I prefer to stick to the original recipe. Searching substitutes will ruin what someone already achieved.
The price is not a problem if I know the lube will meet my needs. So I only want somebody to share where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red (considering lead fouling and accuracy).

[RobS]

Hi, Ben! Appreciate your effort and thanks for sharing.
Where is the velocity limit of this lube? How about using it in .223 at about 2300-2500f/s?


Shooting 2300-2500 fps with a tight twist is going to very difficult to achieve no matter what lube you choose. Velocity limit with cast boolits will have more to do with other variables and lube wouldn't be at the top of the list. Having said that though a good lube can bring all the bits and pieces together.

[Ben]

I prefer to stick to the original recipe. Searching substitutes will ruin what someone already achieved.
The price is not a problem if I know the lube will meet my needs. So I only want somebody to share where is the velocity limit of Ben's Red (considering lead fouling and accuracy).

I feel that asking someone to mark a " velocity limit " is a tall order. Barrel twist ,barrel quality, bullet alloy, bullet design, loading techniques, bullet diameters, etc., etc . can distort data and information provided to you by any single cast bullet shooter. When you try to duplicate what has been done you may or may not be able to do it.

What an individual says doesn't mean as much to me as what 100 or 500 shooters say on a subject.

Shooting cast rifle bullets at near jacketed velocities will be a big challenge for any cast bullet shooter. As has previously been mentioned , by the time you've reached 2,400 fps, lube is only 1 of 20 or more factors that will be acting in unison to dictate the fate of the outcome of the high velocity experiment.

Ben

[DukeInFlorida]

Ben is exactly on the mark here!
In fact, any success with any lube absolutely depends on at least two other things being right: Bullet hardness for the speed traveling, and bullet diameter for the barrel the bullet is shot in.

The lube doesn't "fix" mistakes in the other two things. The lube is merely one of the basic three essential ingredients for success with shooting cast lead bullets.

Using the information in Glenn Fryxxels book, it becomes obvious that the lube works in several ways, presuming all else is right, to provide the proper lubrication for the casting down the barrel. A poorly designed bullet, from the lube groove perspective, isn't going to carry enough lube to do it's job beyond a certain speed (the bullet would simply run out of lube early), regardless of how wonderful the lube is.

There isn't an absolute science to any of this. As Ben points out, it's up to you to do your own testing, with your load, your castings, in your gun, with Ben's recipe, and see if it works for you.


I feel that asking someone to mark a " velocity limit " is a tall order. Barrel twist ,barrel quality, bullet alloy, bullet design, loading techniques, bullet diameters, etc., etc . can distort data and information provided to you by any single cast bullet shooter. When you try to duplicate what has been done you may or may not be able to do it.

What an individual says doesn't mean as much to me as what 100 shooters say on a subject.

Shooting cast rifle bullets at near jacketed velocities will be a big challenge for any cast bullet shooter. As has previously been mentioned , by the time you've reached 2,400 fps, lube is only 1 of 20 or more factors that will be acting in unison to dictate the fate of the outcome of the high velocity experiment.

Ben

[Ben]

Well spoken..................

[Hardcast416taylor]

Ben. Just so you can get a chuckle today here is my question. Have you broken your Red formula ingredients down into oz`s and lbs. for people like me that have a hard time doing percentages of a additive?Robert

[Ben]

24 oz beeswax
14 oz Lucas RT
4.6 oz JPW
5 1/3 tablespoons STP
5 1/3 tablespoons ATF

[taco650]

24 oz beeswax
14 oz Lucas RT
4.6 oz JPW
5 1/3 tablespoons STP
5 1/3 tablespoons ATF

Thanks!

[benellinut]

Ben, Have you ever tried substituting the STP with the Lucas "Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer" oil treatment? As a mechanic for many a year I used both and I personally think the Lucas has better lube properties then STP. I do believe it's a better high pressure lube, slicker and stickier, wouldn't be surprised to learn they use it in the Red N' Tacky, that too is great stuff! Lucas also makes a great gun oil, it's the "original oil" thicker, sticker and also red. One of the things I find it works well for is storage, it holds in the bore well. They have a lot of firearm lubes and cleaners, good stuff.

http://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/heavy-duty-oil-stabilizer

http://lucasoil.com/products/out-door-line/gun-oil

http://lucasoil.com/products/out-door-line

Oh yeah, one other product I love. I don't think you can find a better injector cleaner then the Lucas. I should buy stock or get kick backs LoL. Seriously they make some fine products, I've used a lot of brands over the 25 years to twisting wrenches, Lucas brand is in my garage and on my gun bench.

[Ben]

Have never tried it..........

Ben

[Hardcast416taylor]

Ben. Thanks for the conversion to weights from percentages of componets from all of us `percentage` challenged people.Robert

[flyin brian]

I'm fixing to try this tomorrow... wish me luck!!

BTW, where do you guys get your beeswax and what does it cost? I'm a beekeeper and I have been stacking wax in the shop so maybe it's time to put some on the trader.

[35Whelen]

Well had a good day today...didn't have to travel the 100 km round trip to get the products I needed to give Ben's Red a try. I went to the local Lordco store and was pleasantly surprised to find Lucas Red and Tacky #2 for half the price of another major store. Got it for $4 a tube...then went back to get more today and found it is 16 ounce tubs that will make it easier to remove from the container than a grease gun tube. $5 for the tub. Once I get rid of two feet of snow in the yard out comes the hot plate and old pots. Here's a pic of the product . Pic shamefully stolen from the net.
http://content.speedwaymotors.com/ProductImages/484105741_L_ec60973f-d50f-4621-81a4-e443b6db9ad8.jpg

[AKholicBubba]

Ice been thinking of trying a few that I've cast withthese types of waxes