STI vs RIA

[DrCaveman]

Being that I see more wisdom and less mindless loyalty on this forum than most on the net, I wanted to query you gentlemen and ladies regarding 45 acp 1911 choices.

These two makes seem pretty similar in price (STI a bit higher on average) as well as reputation. Does anyone who owns or has shot a version of each have any words of advice?

About the only tangible difference I can't discern is that the RIA is made in phillipines (under guidance of old American GIs) and the STI appears to be made in Texas, a plus for several reasons.

Any thoughts? Thanks. Please don't tell me to go look on 1911forum. I am asking for personal testimonials or hearsay, not research advice.

[jameslovesjammie]

STI made their name by building 1911 Raceguns. They know how to build quality guns to tight tolerances.

I've shot a plain Jane RIA in .45 but have only shot STI Raceguns in .38 Super, 9mm (major and minor), and .40, so my comparisons are not really apples to apples. I can't compare a $450 RIA to a $1,900 Edge.

I will say that the RIA I shot was 100% reliable with ball ammo. I can't comment on HP's since we didn't have any that day. Fit and finish seemed fine for what it was. Accuracy was pretty much anything you're going to get out of a sub $1,000 1911.

[saz]

I own a "GI" spec Rock and I love it for what it is- a $385 1911. It will eat any RN profile without a hitch and is stone reliable with it- reliable enough that I carry it for CCW often with RNHP's. Now when you start messing with SWC's it took quite a bit of tinkering to get them to feed well. Now I have run a couple hundred rounds through a STI Spartan IV (one of their more economical 1911s) side by side with my Rock at the range and there is no comparison. Like I said, I love it for what it is- a $385 1911. The STI is way more refined, more along the lines of a Kimber. It all depends on what you want, and you are willing to spend.

[Mud Eagle]

The STI Spartan, which is the STI at a comparable price point to the Rock Island, is for the most part the exact same pistol.

As in, both pistols slides and frames are made in the same Factory in the Philippines.

[historicfirearms]

I bought a rock island to use as a project gun in a NRA summer gun smithing class. After seeing how soft the frame rails were I just couldn't bring myself to keep it. I know lots of people on the Internet rave about rock islands but I wonder how much these same people really know about them. It was a good shooting pistol, reliable and good accuracy. I just don't think they are built to last like a Colt.

[saz]

The STI Spartan, which is the STI at a comparable price point to the Rock Island, is for the most part the exact same pistol.

As in, both pistols slides and frames are made in the same Factory in the Philippines.

Put them side by side- NOT the same pistol.

[bruce drake]

Put them side by side- NOT the same pistol.

MudEagle is right. They are both made by ARMSCORPS in the Phillipines. STI imports their model and has Roll Stamps placed on them. ARMSCORPS imports their own as RIAs. Same people run the CAD machines that produce both these pistols.

I own a RIA Govt. Model and it feeds and functions just fine (its my Avatar)

Bruce

[saz]

I could have the model wrong- the STI I was shooting was quite a bit more of a quality piece than my RI- great trigger, full length guide rod etc. Didn't mean to get anyone's feathers ruffled if I did.

[DrCaveman]

Great info so far guys, since I think it was the spartan that I was considering.
If the frames and slides are made in the same factory, then where would the differences show up?
Stock sights & grips are probably similar... Beavertail safety?
Do STI factory mags run better than RIA, which I understand to be a weak point?
RIA assembled in phillipines, STI assembled in Georgetown?

I should look into a '1911 options for dummies' sort of thread. Surely many exist and I am not really up to speed on the subtle differences between the options.

[Lloyd Smale]

Only experience i have is with the sti trojan 9mm i used to have. It was a great gun and at a grand in price in my opinion it compared to guns that cost twice that.

[tomme boy]

I have had a Spartan an a Citadel. I still have the Citadel. The only difference is the STI has adjustable target sights. I had to send the STI back 3 times. They replaced the entire gun 2 times. The last time they replaced it, I would not accept it back at the dealer. He gave my $ back.

I looked over the Citadel very carefully before I bought it. The problem with the other one was the barrel was missing the rifling the last 1/4" of the barrel, the sights were not straight. Looking down from the top, the rear sight was twisted to about 1 o'clock. Then looking from the rear, it was also twisted to 1 o'clock on this plane as well. The front sight was the same way. I sent it back, they replaced the barrel and then told me it is a cheap gun an they could not do anything about the sights being canted. I tried to shoot the gun and before I could even get the first mag shot, the gun locked up solid. Eric forgot to peen the link pin. I told Eric that I wanted a new gun when it went back. He said he would look over all the ones they had there to make sure I would get a good one. Same twisted sights as the first. Sent it back. They send another one an tell me if I don't like it they are going to give me a Trojan model that they build themselves. This one is just as twisted as the other 2. Then they tell me they are not going to replace it with the upgraded one. And Eric left a nasty voice message on my phone. He thought he was calling the dealer instead of me.

So, I will never recommend a STI anything after all of this happened.

Do as you wish, but my Citadel has been great. The mags that come with them an the Rocks are good. The problem is the magazine catch not holding the mag. It is either too high or too low. Once you get that figured out you will not have any problems. It will show up right away by not feeding the first round. Sometimes the slide release is too fat and the bullets in the mag will hit the slide release and lock the slide back. These are just typical things that happen with 1911's.

[Lonegun1894]

I have shot a ex-coworkers STI, and own a RIA Compact. The STI looked better overall, and had adjustable sights, but didn't shoot any better than my RIA, and I paid less than half of what he did. I only fired about 40-50rds through his, so can't claim that this was an extensive test by any means, but it was relaible and shot reasonably well. Now for the RIA... Mine is the compact with the GI sights. It is great now, but wasn't when I pulled it out of the box. Now keep in mind that these were all easy fixes and parts swaps that I did myself, so may or may not be something you're willing to do yourself depending on how comfortable you are with a 1911 and modifying it yourself. I hated the smooth wood grips mine came with, so replaced them with some rubber ones that allow a good grip, but will someday replace these with some kind of checkered ones. That replacement was about $10. The recoil spring in mine was too weak to strip a round out of the magazine and fully close the slide to chamber it, so got replaced with a 20# spring from Midway, which cost $6-7 plus shipping, but I tend to order several things at once so shipping is spread out over many items and not just for the springs. It is now very relaible and eats any ammunition I have tried, ranging from various hollowpoints, to my usual 200gr SWC practice load, it eats them all and asks for more. The last, and what may cost you the most unless you fix it yourself like I did, was the trigger. Mine was very inconsistent. The lightest it would be was about 8-9lbs, and then would jumo to about 15, and within 4-5rds from the magazine would get so heavy that I was literally unable to pull it hard enough to drop the hammer. Well, I stripped the gun apart, and found some uneven and fairly rough machining work in the hammer/sear area. After about 20 minutes with some fine files and stones, I now have a very consistent 3lb trigger on mine with no creep that just breaks like glass. This trigger is literally better than the one on my Springfield, which still beats any trigger I have seen on any Kimber, which are considered to be some of the best by many people. Long story short, I will, and have put my RIA (or my Springfield for that matter) up against any other brand of 1911 out there, and expect it to do well. Wanna make some Kimber shooters mad? Beat them and their $1500 Kimbers with a $400 RIA Compact, both for accuracy and reliability. Just so you know though, several friends of mine have bought the RIA Compact after shooting mine, and we have done the same modifications, due to the same problems, on EVERY SINGLE ONE. This has only cost about $20 per gun plus a little time, so it isn't a big deal, but it is an annoyance. A few have also bought the full size versions, and we have yet to do anything except a triggerjob on any of them, and the one triggerjob was just because the guy wanted a lighter trigger on his full size to match his compact. So the fullsize ones, at least in my experience, have very few if any problems, and all the ones I have seen shoot very well.

[trickyasafox]

I have a citadel compact and an RIA tac in 9mm - no experience with STI. I did have to have the barrel recut on the citadel. it wouldn't feed all JHP and some fat lead reloads. After 2 bucks to send it back, its been fantastic. The RIA tac has been awesome from the first shot. I have no regrets about either purchase, and frankly would like to pick up another RIA in the future.

[Scout800a]

The STI Spartan, which is the STI at a comparable price point to the Rock Island, is for the most part the exact same pistol.

As in, both pistols slides and frames are made in the same Factory in the Philippines.

They aren't the same. I have an STI spartan, I think it's the best gun for the money out there. The Rock's seem to do well. But notice that everyone qualifies what they say about them by mentioning the price. The Spatan is a great gun period. one of the main things you get with the STI over the Rock Island's is an STI trigger, All the trigger internals are STI, the same ones you get on their higher $$$ models.

[Lonegun1894]

Scout,
You're definitely right about the price. Having said that, I also did a trigger job on my Springfields when I bought them, and have done the same to friends 1911s of various brands, including Kimbers, Colts, etc. So either I just can't leave well enough alone, or sometimes, it's not just a matter of having good parts, but also making sure that they're fitted well, regardless of what's stamped on the side. I'm really glad to hear several good reports on the STIs though, because I have only had a chance to shoot one and was wondering how they are in general.

[gefiltephish]

I have 2 RIA's, one CS and one FS "Tactical". I like 'em both. The only problem I've had was with the FS was slam firing 2 rounds. I sent it back to the distributor who not only fixed the problem (weak sear spring) but also polished the ramps to better feed swc's and replaced the recoil spring - all at no charge to me. As I recall, it was about a 3 week round trip. It's worked perfectly ever since. The distributor has an excellent reputation and that was one of my reason's for choosing the RIA.

Since trying out my CS, my oldest brother decided to get one, which he now carries. He really likes it. Prior, he had a Para. Both of my brothers and I shot the RIA's side by side with my (other) brothers Kimber. While hardly a conclusive test, we all felt that though the Kimber had unquestionably better fit and finish, it did not shoot any more accurately than the RIA's, and the trigger definitely had more creep.

Oh yea, we have small hands and found the Hogue wrap around rubber finger grips to be the hot ticket. Also, my FS came with a 16lb recoil spring, but I found that I prefer the 18.5lb spring better for my ammo.

Yeah most folks qualify their like for this brand with the low price, and I do as well. I'd say that most of us who buy them are well aware that it is what it is and not in the same class as the high cost brands. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to rely on either of mine for defense which is what I got them for. I also wouldn't hestitate to buy another. In a nutshell, they're relatively inexpensive, reliable, accurate enough guns that are backed by a quality distributor. That's been my experience anyway.

[Moondawg]

I have owned two STI pistols that I shot in IPSC, one a 45 and one a 40S&W. Both were limited guns, not race guns. Neither was cheap, but fit and funtion of both was flawless. After a several years aging joints and eyesight made me quit the IPSC game and I sold both guns, for a very good price and both of them had many thousands of rounds through them. STI has a very good reputation among competition shooters that put a lot of rounds through a gun, often hundres of rounds a week just in practice. In the shooting world you generally get what you pay for. Yea, a inexpensive 1911 may initally shoot as good as an STI, but which one will still be shooting good 50,00 or 75,000 rounds down the road? My money is on the STI. And yes STIs are made in Texas, except for their economy model that is made in the Phillipines.

[crabo]

Only experience i have is with the sti trojan 9mm i used to have. It was a great gun and at a grand in price in my opinion it compared to guns that cost twice that.

I had a Trojan also in 9mm. Great gun, but since I have a tricked out 38 Super, I sold it for what I had in it.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I bought my Para P-14 45 acp more than eighteen years ago. I don't know just how many rounds it has down the barrel, but I do have a 3lb coffee can full of spent primers I saved from IPSC/IDPA matches and plinking.

[practical_man]

Being that I see more wisdom and less mindless loyalty on this forum than most on the net, I wanted to query you gentlemen and ladies regarding 45 acp 1911 choices.

These two makes seem pretty similar in price (STI a bit higher on average) as well as reputation. Does anyone who owns or has shot a version of each have any words of advice?

About the only tangible difference I can't discern is that the RIA is made in phillipines (under guidance of old American GIs) and the STI appears to be made in Texas, a plus for several reasons.

Any thoughts? Thanks. Please don't tell me to go look on 1911forum. I am asking for personal testimonials or hearsay, not research advice.

Can't comment on STI at all. I have a 5 inch RIA 45 that I bought NIB for $326. I bought on a lark just to see how it would shoot. I was also very surprised at how good the trigger was right out of the box. 3.5# long roll trigger that I promptly converted to a short roll. But I like roll triggers...

It feeds ball ammo and HG 68 LSWC with boring monotony. Groups are a little disappointing but it will hold the black on a Bullseye slow fire target at 50 yards. I will replace the barrel bushing one of these days.

I did have to do a little work to square up the barrel hood, but not much. I also put a 10-8 rear sight on it because I had one in the box and the factory sights are pretty hard for an old man to see. Also put a new recoil spring in it because the stock one just looked like hell - painted thin steel wire that did the job just fine. Guess I just felt better about putting a Wolff spring in it.

Bottom line, it is a reliable pistol but a far cry from a race gun. I have no idea what the hardness of the metal is, but it doesn't show any unusual wear. It did run better with a little mobile 1 oil during break in -- just a bit on the rails, upper lugs, and barrel bushing. It works with any magazine except the Wilson's. I don't think I would buy one in 38 super, but the 45 is just fine.

Hope this helps you decide.

- John

[Adam10mm]

RIA is the perfect truck gun. A beater .45 ACP that works most of the time, shoots accurate enough, but won't win any beauty contests.

STI is everything the RIA isn't.

[KYCaster]

Can't comment on STI at all. I have a 5 inch RIA 45 that I bought NIB for $326. I bought on a lark just to see how it would shoot. I was also very surprised at how good the trigger was right out of the box. 3.5# long roll trigger that I promptly converted to a short roll. But I like roll triggers...

It feeds ball ammo and HG 68 LSWC with boring monotony. Groups are a little disappointing but it will hold the black on a Bullseye slow fire target at 50 yards. I will replace the barrel bushing one of these days.

I did have to do a little work to square up the barrel hood, but not much. I also put a 10-8 rear sight on it because I had one in the box and the factory sights are pretty hard for an old man to see. Also put a new recoil spring in it because the stock one just looked like hell - painted thin steel wire that did the job just fine. Guess I just felt better about putting a Wolff spring in it.

Bottom line, it is a reliable pistol but a far cry from a race gun. I have no idea what the hardness of the metal is, but it doesn't show any unusual wear. It did run better with a little mobile 1 oil during break in -- just a bit on the rails, upper lugs, and barrel bushing. It works with any magazine except the Wilson's. I don't think I would buy one in 38 super, but the 45 is just fine.

Hope this helps you decide.

- John



John, I'm not familiar with the term "roll trigger". Would you please explain it to me?

Jerry

[bruce drake]

Well, I'm just a guy who likes simple but functional. No fancy bells and whistles needed but it still gets the job done. Two pictures of my favorite pistols. My RIA Govt. Model in 45 ACP and my FEG/Browning Hi-Power Clone in 9mm.

Yeah, I'm partial to J.M. Browning's pistol designs. If I could find a 32 ACP 1903 Colt without breaking the bank, I'd get one of them too.

Bruce

[DrCaveman]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226995069d095a56b9.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6885)

I finally got to the store and was able to compare the Spartan to a RIA full-size. I also auditioned an entry-level Springfield along with a "Desert Eagle" 1911.

Although the Desert Eagle felt very refined and nice, the Spartan seemed much smoother and easier to manipulate than the RIA or Springfield... to me.

Add to that, the Spartan was $325 cheaper than the DE, and about $75 cheaper than the RIA and Springfield, it was an easy choice. Yes, it was used, but very lightly it seems. For now I am sticking with the factory grips and magazine.

Gonna head out now and shoot it (after loading up a few hundred more rounds) and hopefully have some accuracy and chrono data.

[Lonegun1894]

Looks good to me. I mean, how can you NOT love a 1911? Hope it shoots well for you.

[practical_man]

John, I'm not familiar with the term "roll trigger". Would you please explain it to me?

Jerry

Jerry- sorry for delayed response.

A roll trigger is exactly the opposite of a crisp "breaking a glass rod" trigger. A fair amount of pre-travel, but very smooth. Great for bullseye. Less great for action sports, but I still like it. Then again, I like to shoot revolvers double action.

-john

[jh45gun]

I have a RIA tactical that is a great gun for the money. I get a kick out of the guys who say cast frames are not as good as forged frames as far as strength goes yet think nothing of buying an Aluminum framed Kimber. Not a knock on Kimber I would not mind a ultra carry. Just saying that Cast frames are fine nothing wrong with them.

[jh45gun]

Got to add on a lot of the 1911 forums there is a lot of love for the RIA guns they cannot be all that bad. I bought mine because of all the good comments on them forums. Plus their customer service is great I lost my Spring plug putting the gun back together it went flying and I could not find it. Their customer service sent me two of them no charge.

[saz]

I have a RIA tactical that is a great gun for the money. I get a kick out of the guys who say cast frames are not as good as forged frames as far as strength goes yet think nothing of buying an Aluminum framed Kimber. Not a knock on Kimber I would not mind a ultra carry. Just saying that Cast frames are fine nothing wrong with them.

I know right! People will bash lots of stuff. The only thing I can say about my RIA is that it is not the same quality as my Kimber. IMHO it ist the best $385 I have ever spent! It takes a little tweaking sometimes to get it to feed anything other than RN profile boolits, but if everything worked perfect right outta the chute, where would the fun be in that right? BTW, you should look into a Kimber Ultra- it is an absolute JOY to carry and more accurate than needed for a carry gun. It is a wonderful piece.

DrCaveman,
congrats on the new piece! Hopefully she is a shooter. It is definitely a looker! Keep us posted on how it shoots!

[jh45gun]

Too rich for my blood only way I could afford one is to win one in a raffle. Buying the RIA was an extravagance for me since I am on a fixed income.

[KYCaster]

Jerry- sorry for delayed response.

A roll trigger is exactly the opposite of a crisp "breaking a glass rod" trigger. A fair amount of pre-travel, but very smooth. Great for bullseye. Less great for action sports, but I still like it. Then again, I like to shoot revolvers double action.

-john



OK, I can relate to that.

I also like DA revolvers and often recommend them to people who have problems with trigger control.

Thanks for the response. Once again I learned something new on the best forum on the 'net. [smilie=p:

Jerry

[David2011]

DrCaveman,

Throwing a Springfield into consideration at the last minute? I have several 1911s from Mil-Spec to custom. The only one I've ever sold was a Springfield and I regret it to this day. It was the PX9109; the "Loaded" and Parkerized model. It functioned perfectly and after a few hundred rounds to break it in and smooth it out, it was very accurate. Accuracy was comprable to my STI Edge. I've worked on several Springfields since and would never hesitate to recommend them as my first pick in 1911s between $600 and $1100.

Jh45Gun,

I agree with your cast frame comments. Caspian frames are cast as are Rugers. They are both very high quality castings. Caspian makes frames for a number of very expensive semi-custom 1911 builders. Two of my 1911s are on Caspian frames and I'm very satisfied with them. One is glass smooth and can function with very light loads (light recoil spring and plenty of hand fitting required). The other hasn't decided what it will be when it is finished but it's been a basically stock configuration 4" carry gun for years. It will be fancied up at some point.

David

[Char-Gar]

Caveman...I hope your choice proves to be a good one and you gets lots of use and enjoyment from your 1911 handgun.

I dearly love the basic 1911 platform and tend to shy away from high end 1911s and all of the gee-gaws and do-dads folks seem to feel are necessary these days.

One the very low end, I am a big fan of the Norinco 1911A1 having 2 of them. They are good quality handguns, though a little shy in the finish department. They have forged frames and the slides are milled from one piece of good tool steel. They will accept any parts that will fit a Colt GM or USGI 1911A1.

I cleaned up the triggers, added sights I can see between, changed out the springs with Wolfe and replaced the barrels of one with a Colt SS barrel and bushing. I have a good used Bar-Sto on the way to put in the other, although the original barrels are of decent quality and chrome plated inside and out to boot.

When all is done, I will have less than $350.00 in one pistols and $400.00 in the other.

I also have a good Colt GM with ivory grips for my fancy, high end pistol, although I have less than $900 in it, including the ivories.

Enjoy your handgun. It will do anything you want a handgun to do and keep doing it for many years and rounds to come.

[Char-Gar]

Jerry- sorry for delayed response.

A roll trigger is exactly the opposite of a crisp "breaking a glass rod" trigger. A fair amount of pre-travel, but very smooth. Great for bullseye. Less great for action sports, but I still like it. Then again, I like to shoot revolvers double action.

-john

The rearward movment of the trigger before the sear and hammer came into full contact, was what we called "slack".
The rearward movment of the trigger after the sear and hammer came into full contact, was what we called "creep".

I guess vices get changed into virtues with a simple change of terms.

[Digger]

Was in a local hardware store here in Carson City and spotted a RI 3 1/2 inch , 1911 ,new for 450.00 .... was tempted but .......
Already have an old Charles Daly 1911 from back when they had them shipped in from the same outfit , cheap but fun .

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill add this. IVe shot ria guns that there a good gun for the money. Sure nothing fancy but they work. Ive shot a couple spartans and think there about the best bang for the buck in a 1911. Quality is up there with low end springfields and kimbers and there less money. Only real competition they have at that price level is the tauras. The tauars guns ive shot were good guns too. Maybe not a smooth as a spartan but they too work. I just cant stand the big billboard on the side that advertises you bought a cheap gun. Along with some real crappy experiences with tauras costumer service that scares me away from ever buying another of there products. Ill sum it up like this. The spartan is the starting point to me in a 1911 that i would trust my familys protection to.