Corrosive primed steel cases

[I'll Make Mine]

In a few weeks, I'll be shooting several hundred rounds of inexpensive Russian surplus ammunition through my Mosin Nagant at an Appleseed shooting school. I'd like to preserve the steel/Berdan cases for conversion to shotgun primers and use for "cat sneeze" light plinking and small game loads, or primer-propelled 8 mm airsoft BB loads for indoor trigger time -- which will save me a bunch of money compared to tying up "reloadable" brass/Boxer cases.

Problem is, these are corrosive primed, and it's been my understanding that the steel will start to rust within, at most, a day or two after firing if not treated. I'm not worried about my barrel -- I do a full breakdown and cleaning with Hoppe's No. 9 and oiled after every surplus shooting session -- but it's not very practical to clean inside cases with Hoppe's, even if I had enough on hand to make this possible. Seems to me I should be able to drop the cases into a suitable water solution, which will dissolve away the potassium chloride and yet not itself promote rust inside the case (the copper wash does a pretty good job of protecting the exterior), but I don't know what I can put into water to offset the effects of dissolved chloride salts.

This isn't a swab through the bore with Windex (which has often struck me as silly, why not just go with Hoppe's, which was formulated a hundred years ago specifically to neutralize and clear out corrosive primer residue?), these cases will probably wind up sitting in the bucket or jar for up to 48 hours before I'll have time to rinse them and get them dry. It may not even matter, given the hottest load I'm likely to put in these will be a 47 grain round ball or 95-110 grain pistol boolit over a few grains of Bullseye -- but I'd like to remove as much of the corrosive salt as possible, as quickly as possible, and hopefully avoid blowing rust into my bore when I later fire the light loads from these cases.

Any suggestions what I can put in the water, or another way to treat the brass to prevent rust from the potassium chloride residue?

[Multigunner]

Try ballistol with water to form a milky detergent wash.
Swabing the inside of the case with straight balistol afterwards.
Clean out any visible residue of the balistol before reloading the case, to avoid contamination and breaking down of the powder charge.

Balistol is great for cleaning any powder or primer residue, adding water helps in disolving primer salts, and the balistol forms a micro thin layer that prevents transfer of oxygen to any surface it touches.
Ordinarily a steel case would have some sort of laquer coating inside, but the heat from the burning charge would probably destroy that.

[I'll Make Mine]

Thanks, that's a good suggestion. Can I get Ballistol at the local sporting goods or gun shop, or will I have to order it online?

[Multigunner]

Thanks, that's a good suggestion. Can I get Ballistol at the local sporting goods or gun shop, or will I have to order it online?

It should be available at any well stocked sporting goods store that carries gun cleaning supplies.

One thing I really like about balistol is that its the safest solvent to use. So safe its used in cleaning meat cutting machinery and is recommended as a wound cleanser and disinfectant for horses and hunting dogs. Its also safe to clean leather equipment, it doesn't damage leather. I use it to clean my leather gloves if I have had to handle anything that might have germs, like moving a dead animal.

[omgb]

Hopes #9 will not dissolve corrosive primer residue, it won't period. Too many tests have proven it. It will leave an oil cooating in your barrel that might retard rust for awhile but that it. You need water and a little soap. Balistol works great, but so does Dawn. Wet, Swab, Brush, dry oil. That's it.

[I'll Make Mine]

Very good -- I'll check for Ballistol when I'm buying Prvi Partizan ammunition this payday, and I'll start using that instead of Hoppe's for my after-shooting cleaning (though I expect the sheer physical cleaning I've done with Hoppe's has removed the potassium chloride -- I ran a lot of patches with the Hoppe's because I'm still getting the old black/brown residue out of this barrel).

[texassako]

If I was going to convert the cases, I would look for some of the suplus that was brass cased. I would want something that I could work and clean easier and anneal than steel.

[KCSO]

Murphy's oil soap and water will get moost of it out then clean them good at home.

[Multigunner]

A bit od topic drift but should be of interest.
I found out a couple of years ago that some long range target shooters looking to push pressures to the maximum that the rifle can stand and still avoid case blow outs and be able to reload the cases had been making two piece cases, using the casehead from steel cases mated to the body of a brass case.
A commercial equivalent had been marketed many years earlier but didn't catch on.
The commercial two piece case had the bass body threaded into a purpose made steel casehead.
The homemade variety seems to be soldered in.

I don't think these would be of any particular use for mild cast boolits pressures, but might be of use when one has an older milsurp rifle with loose chamber, or has to make cases for a rifle whos original cartridge had a slightly bigger casehead than the nearest available cases.

[I'll Make Mine]

If I was going to convert the cases, I would look for some of the suplus that was brass cased. I would want something that I could work and clean easier and anneal than steel.

If I were converting Berdan to Boxer, I certainly wouldn't bother trying with steel cases -- they won't last long enough for the effort, especially when I can get brass/Boxer ammunition at a reasonable price. For whatever it's worth, though, I haven't seen any of the Yugo brass case surplus since I got my rifle (seven months ago); seems the last of the Soviet bloc countries found out steel was cheaper most of fifty years ago.

For conversion to 209 primers, however, with light "cat sneeze" loads or primer-only propulsion, and neck-only sizing or as-fired use, they'll probably last five or ten loadings, minimum (primer-propelled, they should last nearly forever, since the rim keeps the shoulder from setting back), which is enough to go through the fairly simple process of converting. I need to make up a D-bit reamer or spade cutter to get the center hole exactly right (the 209 primers I have are .242 body diameter, which is a little too tight to use a letter C drill at .240); I'll probably incorporate a flute to cut the primer base clearance (easier than using an oversize drill bit), but the ones I already have, drilled with 15/64" and lightly filed, then base clearance with a 21/64" just to full diameter, fit well enough to prove the concept.

I do need to come up with a decent way to chuck the cases in my lathe (I'll probably make up a compression collet that fits the case rim); once that's done, I can use a center drill to take out the anvil, pop out the primer with a small screwdriver, drill to size and form the base clearance, in three operations that, done in batches to save on tool changes, will take under two minutes per case. Once done, they'll be suitable for loads like .315" round ball over four or five grains of Bullseye, which might or might not require neck sizing, and I already know they work to shoot 8 mm airsoft BBs with primer propulsion (the Mosin Nagant version of wax or plastic bullets).

[JIMinPHX]

I'd just boil them in water, then dump them out into a screened bucket & shake off as much water as possible, then let the hot cases air dry.

I would prefer brass cases for reloading though. Cat sneeze loads in particular will not want to seal up a steel case against the chamber walls.

[I'll Make Mine]

Cat sneeze loads in particular will not want to seal up a steel case against the chamber walls.

Nice low cost suggestion, though I'd have to find a pot large enough to boil the cases that I could dedicate for that -- plus a sieve or colander to drain them in, also dedicated.

The cat sneeze loads will be either unsized, or neck sized only (depending what I'm using for a bullet; .315" round balls will probably seat in the case as fired). We'll see if there are problems with case blackening and such; I've got (or will have) so many of these fired steel cases around, it'd be a shame not to do something useful with them.

[MtGun44]

Soapy water should suffice. The corrosive salts are very soluable in water, so drop them
into something like a gallon milk jug half filled with a water with detergent solution and
soak for a while. Shake around good, then rinse a couple of changes of water.

Wash and spray with WD-40 (WD = water displacing) to keep them form rusting from the
water.

Maybe baking in the oven at 150F would dry them better.

Bill

[I'll Make Mine]

I'll need more than a half gallon -- the Appleseed information page tells me to expect to fire approximately 400 rounds (per day, I think, and it's a two-day event -- I'm planning to take a bottle of acetaminophen with me, just in case, though I think I've figured out how to beat shoulder pain and likely the instructors can help). I have several cat litter buckets I can prefill; two of those per day should be overkill, but I don't want to concentrate too many cases in a single bucket, so as to avoid getting the KCl concentration too high.

I like this solution; much cheaper than a can of Ballistol (I have one and a partial refill size of dish soap under the sink), though I may get that anyway, since I'll need to clean my rifle at least twice for the event (after each day's shooting) and I'm being told Hoppe's No. 9 is completely worthless for cleaning after corrosive primers -- odd, since that's the only kind there were when it was formulated.

Honestly, I'd shoot this event with a .22 (like virtually everyone else does) if I owned a rifle in that caliber or could afford to buy one (and a thousand rounds of decent ammunition -- call it a $250 outlay) before the event, now less than four weeks off, but the only .22 I have is a High Standard Sentinel Deluxe (6", nine shot revolver), and I'm pretty sure the tiny "long range" simulation targets would be in no danger at 25 yards with that revolver, even though I can routinely hit a man-sized silhouette at 50 yards from a braced position.

[NuJudge]

After 800 rounds of 7.62x54R in 2 days, you will probably want to shoot some light loads

[I'll Make Mine]

After 800 rounds of 7.62x54R in 2 days, you will probably want to shoot some light loads

There's a strong likelihood that on the first weekend of whitetail season (starts here on November 3), I'll still be hoping not to see a deer. I've got a butt pad on my rifle (the molded one that's shaped like the original plate), and the rifle doesn't hurt me if I keep it down on the meat of my shoulder where it belongs (first session after I bought it, my last string I got the butt up onto my collarbone trying to rest on the shooting bench, and wore a really spectacular bruise for about three weeks) -- we'll see.

Other side is, if I can shoot my Rifleman score early on the first day, I'll be off the hook for the rest of the day, and can quit if I feel I need to. Second day is the long range targets (first day is at 25 yards with targets sized to simulate range changes), for those who made Rifleman the first day -- more resting and fewer rounds, I'd expect, since it takes rather a while to walk out to 200, 300 and 400 yards to score and change paper...