loading bp in the 45-70

[white eagle]

Is it as easy as dumping 70 gr bp in a case and putting a boolit on and shooting?
is it necessary to have a seperator between the powder and boolit?[smilie=w:

[Chicken Thief]

The main difference between BP and smokeless is the fact that better than 99% of smokeless turns into gas. With BP that is only between 33 and 40%.

So at time zero the BP nearest to the primer will ignite and push the rest of the BP column forward. In it's way is the bottom of the boolit. Dents, nicks and crannies are the result in the bottom of the boolit. As flat as possible is mandatory for accuracy, so a disc of some sort to take the beating is desired.

All the above regards a flat bottomed projectile!

If you use a hollow base boolit then no disc is better for accuracy, the chance is that it might lodge in the boolits cavity and alter it's flying caracteristics.

But no it is not nessesary, but aids in accuracy.
And no it is not that simple!!!
It is 150yrs+ of "science" and none of us mortals will master it to perfection in a lifetime!

[af2fb751]

It isn't really rocket science, unless you want high quality match grade cartridges or something fancy like paper patching. I use a card on top of the powder and then seat the lead. It goes bang. Loading 45/70 is just plain fun, IMHO.

[Don McDowell]

Is it as easy as dumping 70 gr bp in a case and putting a boolit on and shooting?
is it necessary to have a seperator between the powder and boolit?[smilie=w:

Yes it really is that simple. Sometimes it may be best to compress the powder before seating the bullet, so that the bullet nose doesn't get deformed.
No it's not necessary to have a wad of somekind between the bullet and powder, tho it may be quite helpful for long range loads, and it might help prevent lube migration from the bullet to the powder in some circumstances.

[jbrower]

The original 45-70 cases were so-called "baloon head" cases and they held more powder than today's modern cases. If you try dumping 70gn of FFg black powder into a modern 45-70 case without using a drop tube, chances are you'll have powder spilling over. You can probably get away with as low as around 55 grains instead of 70. The big issue with loading BP is that you don't want to have any air space between your powder charge and the bullet, otherwise you can wind up with a ringed chamber.

[725]

Check with castboolits member "Jr". He has lots of good advice.

[Don McDowell]

I pour 72 grs thru a funnel on the case on a quite regular basis , there's usually plenty of room to seat a fiber wad before running into the compression die, so to be able to seat 500 gr bullets. Only loaded about 500 for the wife to use in competition this year, using that system,other years have loaded closer to 2000 that way. When I want to go up to 75 grs for paper patched bullets I hold the scale pan above the funnel a couple of inches and pour slowly.

[Boz330]

The original 45-70 cases were so-called "baloon head" cases and they held more powder than today's modern cases. If you try dumping 70gn of FFg black powder into a modern 45-70 case without using a drop tube, chances are you'll have powder spilling over. You can probably get away with as low as around 55 grains instead of 70. The big issue with loading BP is that you don't want to have any air space between your powder charge and the bullet, otherwise you can wind up with a ringed chamber.

Depends on the brand of powder. Swiss tends to be about 10% heavier than Goex for instance. As Don said I can get 70gr of Swiss and KIK in a 45-70 case with no problem and have room for a wad.

Bob

[Baja_Traveler]

Unless you are shooting a Buffalo Match out and past 1000 yards, there is really no reason to beat yourself up with 70 grains. Use 60 grains and enjoy the shooting.

[wills]

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm

[Texantothecore]

I cleaned my black powder rifle this last weekend after some range time by slowly pouring 4 cups of cold water down the barrel. First dry patch had a slight shadow, the second patch popped out clean as whistle. Easiest cleaning job i have ever had on a gun. I used Johnson's Paste Wax for the boolit lube and that may have had something to do with. I checked the bore the next day and it was bright, which has been noted by others who have used Johnson's Paste Wax.

[joec]

The few I've loaded using black powder I went with 60 gr of powder behind a Badman Bullet hard cast RNFP 405 gr bullet. I loaded a couple with Swiss, Goex, KIK and Schuetzen all FFg. Longest range was about 100 yards but fired well and no wads just bullet compressed.

[alrighty]

Is it as easy as dumping 70 gr bp in a case and putting a boolit on and shooting?
is it necessary to have a seperator between the powder and boolit?[smilie=w:

It was for me!Up until a few weeks ago the only "black powder" I ever shot was pyrodex.I shot it in muzzle loaders for years and learned to live with the cleaning.I was always foolishly scared of the real thing and you could never find the stuff locally anyway.My father took on pawn an original 84 trapdoor about 20 years ago.The guy never picked it up.I have always wanted to shoot that rifle but didn't want to take a chance of not cleaning the pryrodex and corrosion setting in.I did not want to chance shooting smokeless in it either.I would just look at that old rifle and think someday.Luckily I stumbled upon this great site and quickly read everything I could about real black powder.I then bought a mould and some real black powder.Why oh why did I ever wait so long.I put 60 grains of Shuetzen behind a Lyman 457124,slightly compressed and had a blast.I honestly believe that was the most fun me and my father had shooting since the day I got my first .22.Since then I have also had fun bringing an old Stevens rifle chambered in 44 shot out of retirement by taking a 44-40 case and using the cci shot cups designed for the 44 special/ magnum.Now my father has purchased an original Colt lightening revolver in 38 long Colt and I am about to start loading for it.
If you are looking to start shooting 1000 yards in matches then yes it can be hard to be competitive I am sure.If you are just wanting to have a great time with an old rifle then yes it can be that easy.One thing is for sure after one shot you will be hooked.:lovebooli

[joec]

It was for me!Up until a few weeks ago the only "black powder" I ever shot was pyrodex.I shot it in muzzle loaders for years and learned to live with the cleaning.I was always foolishly scared of the real thing and you could never find the stuff locally anyway.My father took on pawn an original 84 trapdoor about 20 years ago.The guy never picked it up.I have always wanted to shoot that rifle but didn't want to take a chance of not cleaning the pryrodex and corrosion setting in.I did not want to chance shooting smokeless in it either.I would just look at that old rifle and think someday.Luckily I stumbled upon this great site and quickly read everything I could about real black powder.I then bought a mould and some real black powder.Why oh why did I ever wait so long.I put 60 grains of Shuetzen behind a Lyman 457124,slightly compressed and had a blast.I honestly believe that was the most fun me and my father had shooting since the day I got my first .22.Since then I have also had fun bringing an old Stevens rifle chambered in 44 shot out of retirement by taking a 44-40 case and using the cci shot cups designed for the 44 special/ magnum.Now my father has purchased an original Colt lightening revolver in 38 long Colt and I am about to start loading for it.
If you are looking to start shooting 1000 yards in matches then yes it can be hard to be competitive I am sure.If you are just wanting to have a great time with an old rifle then yes it can be that easy.One thing is for sure after one shot you will be hooked.:lovebooli

When I first started loading most of them was 45 Colt rounds using Pyrodex due to the fact I purchased some used equipment from a friend and he through in a pound of it. Now it shot fine but didn't care for the guns after cleaning and having to go back and clean again a few days later.

I still have a 1/2 pound of Pyrodex RS on hand with no plans to load it any more. Once I went to real BP it is just so much more fun with out the hassle of the fake stuff and less corrosive effects on the guns. Nothing quit like shooting the real thing and like it so much I even tried it in my new Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70 and worked up a decent deer load for it using BP and a 405 gr cast bullet.

[alrighty]

When I first started loading most of them was 45 Colt rounds using Pyrodex due to the fact I purchased some used equipment from a friend and he through in a pound of it. Now it shot fine but didn't care for the guns after cleaning and having to go back and clean again a few days later.

I still have a 1/2 pound of Pyrodex RS on hand with no plans to load it any more. Once I went to real BP it is just so much more fun with out the hassle of the fake stuff and less corrosive effects on the guns. Nothing quit like shooting the real thing and like it so much I even tried it in my new Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70 and worked up a decent deer load for it using BP and a 405 gr cast bullet.

I have about the same amount of Pyrodex RS and also an almost full pound of the Pyrodex CTG that came with a deal on some used reloading supplies.The real kicker is with the same deal I also got a can of Goex FFG in the deal.I never opened it for 20 years.I being edumacted ie:young and dumb, just knew if this Pyrodex was a black powder substitute it just had to be better.:groner:
It took me twenty years to find out the real truth.Of course it didn't take twenty years to empty that can once I shed all of the old wives tales.
I am now working up a load in my 45/70 contender rifle with the Holy black and the 292 gr Lyman 457191 for deer season.I agree the cleanup is a snap and it is just plain fun.

[oldred]

I love shooting BP and just can't understand why anyone would use a sub in a BPCR, seriously it is NOT BP shooting! I also shoot smokeless in my 45/90s and 45/70 and although I had been shooting BP for years in a TC Hawkin not too long ago I said I would probably never use it in my cartridge rifles, then curiosity got the best of me and I loaded up a few 45/90 500 grain rounds. Instant addiction! I now find myself shooting BP more and more and wondering why it took me so long to try it.

[wills]

Is it as easy as dumping 70 gr bp in a case and putting a boolit on and shooting?
is it necessary to have a seperator between the powder and boolit?[smilie=w:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13395&highlight=schools+thought

[alrighty]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13395&highlight=schools+thought

Thank you sir , great read.

[Ed in North Texas]

Depends on the brand of powder. Swiss tends to be about 10% heavier than Goex for instance. As Don said I can get 70gr of Swiss and KIK in a 45-70 case with no problem and have room for a wad.

Bob

That's also my experience with 70 grains (weighed) of KIK 1.5f and the .50-70. With a .030 wad there was lots of room to start the boolit without prior compression.

Ed

As an afterthought, we have at least one member who has been shooting .577-450 with air space between powder and wads/boolit for years, and in competition, with no ill effects. So perhaps we have something to unlearn about that subject too. But I suspect most of us are happy not to change, under the theory of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."