So... Coulda Ya Use...

[GRid.1569]

Zinc WW as a core material for swaging jacketed bullets?...

what am I missing?..

..It's just adding core weight.... Yes ?...

[DukeInFlorida]

NO

The core material needs to be soft and squishy, so that it can get swaged into shape INSIDE the jacket as the jacket forms in the point forming die.

ZINC is hard, and not able to get swaged into shape. If you get it hot and cast it, you can pour it into a mold. But, at room temperature, it is hard and brittle, and NOT a proper core material at all.

Try using some wire cutters and cut into zinc wheel weights, and you'll see how UN-yielding they are.

I don't even like lead WHEEL WEIGHTs as material for cores. The antimony and tin are added to wheel weights to make them stiffer, so that they don't deform when your wheel is bouncing through potholes in the road, and go flying off. Much too hard for cores in my book.

I much prefer a right proper SOFT lead, say pure lead, or some "range lead". All of my current cores are being made from melted down jacketed bullets, where the lead from the cores is very soft.
Those easily form wonderful cores, and brilliant finished bullets.

[Reload3006]

Duke in principle is Correct. Any thing can be squeezed into place with enough pressure. But for the Home swager Zinc is not a good choice at all the dies needed and press needed would make it financially unattractive.

[I'll Make Mine]

Duke in principle is Correct. Any thing can be squeezed into place with enough pressure. But for the Home swager Zinc is not a good choice at all the dies needed and press needed would make it financially unattractive.

Well, yes and no. The crystal structure of metals determines their ductility; if you try to swage or cold forge zinc, even if you have tens of tons of pressure available, the metal will crumble before it will flow, where lead acts almost like a liquid under that kind of pressure, even at room temperature. This different is because zinc is a "hexagonal close packed" metal -- the atoms are as close together as possible, like balls in a triangular brass monkey or 00 buckshot in a 12 ga. shell. This structure is shared with titanium, where it accounts for the great strength and difficulty in working that "high tech" metal.

Lead, by contrast, is "face centered cubic" -- a structure that's the best available for easy deformation (it's also the structure iron and steel assume above their transition temperature, which is why a smith can easily form red hot iron, but make only a little change once the metal cools too much). Face centered cubic metals are the most malleable -- copper, silver, and gold all share this structure, which is why they can be beaten into extremely thin sheets, draw into very fine wire, etc.

Bottom line, then -- no matter how much pressure you have, you'll never get zinc to swage the way pure lead can. Beyond that, zinc is less dense than lead, so a zinc core (say, cast into place in a preformed jacket -- reasonably possible for some bullet forms) would weigh only about 2/3 what the same volume lead core would.

[DukeInFlorida]

.... which is why lead is always chosen as the projectile material... You want the smallest package, which means more dense (lead)

[Reload3006]

Well, yes and no. The crystal structure of metals determines their ductility; if you try to swage or cold forge zinc, even if you have tens of tons of pressure available, the metal will crumble before it will flow, where lead acts almost like a liquid under that kind of pressure, even at room temperature. This different is because zinc is a "hexagonal close packed" metal -- the atoms are as close together as possible, like balls in a triangular brass monkey or 00 buckshot in a 12 ga. shell. This structure is shared with titanium, where it accounts for the great strength and difficulty in working that "high tech" metal.

Lead, by contrast, is "face centered cubic" -- a structure that's the best available for easy deformation (it's also the structure iron and steel assume above their transition temperature, which is why a smith can easily form red hot iron, but make only a little change once the metal cools too much). Face centered cubic metals are the most malleable -- copper, silver, and gold all share this structure, which is why they can be beaten into extremely thin sheets, draw into very fine wire, etc.

Bottom line, then -- no matter how much pressure you have, you'll never get zinc to swage the way pure lead can. Beyond that, zinc is less dense than lead, so a zinc core (say, cast into place in a preformed jacket -- reasonably possible for some bullet forms) would weigh only about 2/3 what the same volume lead core would.

Yes I know I am a tool N die maker you can swage and extrude any metal with heat and pressure. I know all about ductility.

[Lizard333]

Not to put a wrench in the works but what about depleted uranium? Military seems to like it.....

Where do I get that as a core??
;)

[nicholst55]

Not to put a wrench in the works but what about depleted uranium? Military seems to like it.....

Where do I get that as a core??
;)

You can handle and work with DU if you want to. Me? No thanks - it kills people, any way you go about it.

I realize you were joking, but DU is nasty stuff, and definitely not a joking matter.

[MUSTANG]

You can handle and work with DU if you want to. Me? No thanks - it kills people, any way you go about it.

I realize you were joking, but DU is nasty stuff, and definitely not a joking matter.



Just put that DU on the shelf and wait a few million to billion years. U-238 will decay to 206Pb, Th-232 will decay to 207Pb, and U-235 will decay to 208Pb. :groner:

[I'll Make Mine]

If you want a hard penetrator, hardened steel or tungsten carbide are much safer to work with than depleted uranium (uranium is one of the most chemically toxic of naturally occurring elements, even disregarding its beta decay which is a strong carcinogen if even a trace of the stuff winds up inside your body). What I haven't figured is how to get a penetrator to be perfectly centered inside the lead and jacket. I know it's possible; I've got a round thousand steel core bullets on hand and they're made by the millions for military ammunition. I just don't know how you'd begin to center the penetrators in a home swaging setup.

[Lizard333]

Seems like it is do easy to get surplus or pulled rounds of AP, it seems silly yo try to manufacture it. The logistics just seem much.

On the other hand.....

What about a steel ball bearing in a core? It would almost be like a Nosler partition. You would first place the BB in the jacket with the lead core on top and then proceed to point form.....

The lead would deform on the initial contact, but the steel would continue to push. With the correct size BB, you would not have any problems with centering it.

Am I nuts?? Well maybe, but does this sound more feasible? Better than depleted uranium I guess ....

[DukeInFlorida]

a "bb" would be less dense than lead, and would be pointless.

tungsten penetrators and steel ball bearings are very different densities.

Trying either type is a waste of time and effort, for all general purposes. As was suggested, buying AP bullets makes more sense than any way of trying to make them yourself.

[perotter]

My $0.02 on using anything other than lead would be to use mild steel. The reason for that would be to extend a given supply of lead. It would add more steps to making a bullet.

[Reload3006]

centering the steel or tungsten core in a round would be fairly easy. Just get a core seat punch with a hole in the center that would allow for a slip fit of the core. it would penetrate the lead core while seating and should be centered. another way would be to have hollow cores. but that could prove tricky. after the core is seated point form as normal. the part that I would think would be tricky would be not getting an air pocket in the projectile that would make for a very inaccurate bullet. then again you could melt your cores to bond while a spacing fixture centered the core still you would need a hollow core seating punch. but I can see how it would be doable.