.44 Mag question

[Lonegun1894]

This may be a goofy question, but here goes. I have a H&R Handirifle in .44 mag, with the slow 1:38" twist. I currently shoot Lee 240 SCWTL plain base boolits unsized, and it does very well, better than I expected, over a medium load of Unique. Having said that, and yes, I will test and find out for myself, but does anyone have any idea how slow I can drive these bullets, or possibly any others for that matter, and still maintain stability with the slow twist in this rifle? Thank you very much for any help you can provide. The main idea is to have a subsonic load, and the slower I can get it, due to the reasonably large bore providing internal capacity to act as it's own suppressor, to have a 25-50yd, garden gun that will work on garden varmints of say 10-15lbs or smaller. The largest things I have to deal with are possum and armadillo, and I'm hoping the large bore of the .44 and the fairly heavy (esp when compared to the pelletguns and .22s I usually use) slug should anchor them in place instead of having them run off and die someplace else. I wish this barrel has a faster twist considering my desired use, but do have to admit that it shoots very well at higher velocities, more like those that I think it was intended for.

So, how slow would y'all recommend? Based on experiments with other guns, some of which worked great at 400-500fps, that would be great, but the twist has me wondering if this is possible.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Not a perfect answer, but I have been loading (just in the past couple weeks) Ranch Dog's 432265 over 5 grains of Red Dot for my Rossi 92' in 44 mag. I don't have a chrono but I am guessing they are in the 700-800 fps range. The Rossi is a 1/30" twist. I haven't papered them, just plinking for now, but they stabilize just fine at 50+ yards. They sound like a standard velocity 22 and the noise they make hitting a steel target is louder than the shot. I don't think any small critter would go very far with a good hit! It might be best to stay up around the 700 fps range to avoid sticking a boolit. I've never played with Unique so I can't tell you if it minds being downloaded that far, but if it does, you may need a faster powder such as Bullseye, Red Dot, ect to get a consitant burn.

[Larry Gibson]

I shot a lot of the Lee TL 240s with 44 SPL loads (5 gr BE) in a 38" slow twist 16" M94 I had. The shot quite well at 825 fps. Winchester factory 44 SPL 246 RNs also shot quite well at 20fps less. That Lee TL bullet is pretty short and squat so it should stabilize down at an even lower velocity.

Larry Gibson.

[Lonegun1894]

Ok, Went out and experimented a little today with my H&R .44 Mag. I loaded three loads, all with the Lee 240gr SCW TL. The top load was pushed by 10.0 grs Unique, as I was thinking this might be a good close range deer/hog load. Accuracy was excellent until my scope croaked and groups started wandering. I was getting 1" 50yd groups with this rifle, which actually kind of surprized me as I was expecting to get leading and for the accuracy to drop off after a few rounds. It took 50 rds for my old scope to die, but it is old and low enough quality that it doesn't even have a manufacturer listed. I have been expecting it to, so not a surprize. Next up was 5.0 grs Unique, but I cant speak for groups due to the bad optics. It wasn't horrible, and did not keyhole at 50, but I had my last load to try and see if it would perform. This last one was 2.7grs of Unique, and keyholed at 50 but not at 25yds. Now the good news is that accuracy was about 2" at 25yds, so good enough for varmints in the garden, and the really good news is that with this 22" barrel, this gun/load combination sounds like a pelletgun. Now I just need to do some penetration/field testing. I know the boolit caliber/weight is more than I need for pests, but need to make sure this thing won't ricochet like crazy so it is safe to use. I will report back when I get more testing done and know more about this one's capabilities. The shooters on the range when I was there all laughed and gave me a hard time that I am not supposed to be using pelletguns and kids cap guns on the range. A few took me up on offers to try it and they all just giggled whn they shot it. I have no idea what the velocity is, but it is very slow. The few times the sun came out through the cloud cover we could watch the bullet fly to the target even at 25yds.

[rhbrink]

There is some round ball loads listed in the castpics section which would work very well for you too. But it would be my guess that any of these low velcity rounds would be ricocheting son-of-a-guns.

RB

[Iowa Fox]

Lonegun, Keep your eyes open for a Lyman/Ideal 429303 mold. Thats their old pointy bullet which makes nice 44 mag Super Colibri loads. I have a 26" 44 mag Encore barrel that I shoot that bullet with 5grains of Bullseye. It makes a nice quiet garden gun that gives me all the penetration I need with light loads. I have a 16" 44 mag Contender barrel but I get more noise with the short barrel.

[curator]

I have the .44 Mag Handi-rifle too and it has never shot the Lee .44/240 SWCTL boolit worth a darn. For raccoons, feral cats, and armadillo, my favorite vermin load is 3 grains of BullsEye and a Hornady .440 round ball pushed through the Lee .430 sizer. These are tumble lubed with 45-45-10 and pushed down into the unsized (fired) case with a #2 lead pencil. There is a barely audible report with a good "thump" on the receiving end. Soda cans, Muscovy ducks, and tree-rats are not safe out to 25 yards with iron sights.

[Lonegun1894]

Ok, back to the drawing board on this one. A comment was made anout the Lee 240gr boolit not shooting well. I put another scope I had laying around on this gun, and with the idea of testing accuracy due to the previous comment made, I went out again. The most accurate load was 10.0grs Unique, and at 50yds, armed with 20rds left after zeroing the Simmons 3x9 scope, I fired two ten round groups. The first measured 7/8" across, not center to center. The other gave me 3/4" across. That is just two groups, so I will count this as a fluke until further testing proves it as fluke or not, but I have my hopes up. Maybe I just got VERY lucky and either got a great barrel, or stumbled into a great load, or hopefully both. I started off thinking I would be very happy if this gun would give me 3-4" 100yd groups, but these two groups have me wondering if I should expect much better out of it. I do know that the warmer loads are quite a bit more accurate than the subsonic stuff I was playing with and trying to make work, so maybe I should be trying to increase the speed instead of decrease it like I was trying to. Go figure. I had a 50/50 chance of going the right way, and as always, I go the wrong way first before I learn.

[Wolfer]

I don't have this gun or caliber. I'm just going to throw out some random thoughts.
1. Your groups are not flukes
2. In this case size 8-10 gr is where unique likes to be
3. If you want to shoot faster go to something like 2400
4. If you want to go slower use bullseye or clays etc.
I'm pretty sure you can get a accurate , near silent load but I don't think unique is your best choice.
One way to know how low you can go is get you Dow rod ready, start with a light load of BE and start loading it down until you stick a boolit in the bore. You'll be surprised at how low it may be. Then always load a little above that.
With your gun it's easy to look down the bore and confirm the boolit cleared.
When you hear the hammer fall over the shot these loads are still very deadly to small game.
The round ball loads previously mentioned may be your best bet. It sure is a lot of fun finding out.

[fcvan]

I'm going to chime in on the use of round balls for garden pests. I have an H&R 1871 Classic Carbine in 45 Colt. It can be loaded warm like the 44 Mag, or down like you are seeking. I load a 454 RB over 5 grains of unique which is going about 900fps. It sounds like a .22 when fired and hits with authority. A soft lead round ball, lubed with liquid alox does quite well in the slow twist barrels. Your tumble lube boolit should do fine with Unique or Bullseye but round balls are a hoot. My next 'play load' will be to take some fired brass, primers, black powder, and round balls. A case full of BP with a RB pressed into the case mouth should do great. Frank