160 grain 1911 failure to feed

[.5mv^2]

I am getting a fairly regular problem with shooting my 160 grain boolits in my 45 1911. I have the Lee RN FP 160. The second from the bottom round in the mag will go nose up.

I think it is because the rounds are too short and the round slides forward from recoil and the clips release it from the magazine before it centered in the chamber.

I have tried loading them longer but there isn't much boolit for the brass to hang on too.

I like the way they shoot. I am at about 1090 fps. They shoot to point of aim on two different stock 1911's. They don't seem to have any issues when shot in my High Point. The HP shoots them very accurately as well at about 1045 fps.

Any thoughts?

[.5mv^2]

I just realized that I shot both 1911's with the same mag....

[35remington]

If the round is bullet up, that's called a "live round stovepipe."

The round will be pointed bullet up, and is trapped between barrel hood and slide.

What you call "clips" are properly referred to as the magazine's feed lips. What type of magazine are you using? What is the cartridge overall length?

I may point out that this bullet was never intended for a 1911 and in general isn't a good idea. The shallow seating depth also occasions high shot to shot velocity variations. The short bearing surface also makes it more prone to setback, especially since the overall length of the cartridge tends toward Ka-chunky feeding that makes it more likely the bullet will be set back in the case.

The live round stovepipe means the round isn't rising in time and is being struck in the extractor groove rather than the rim. Overall length of the round may also be a problem. A weak magazine spring may be the cause. If it isn't a live round stovepipe, the round is caught at an angle between breech face and chamber, and this is a magazine release timing issue, as well as overall length of the round. Which one of these two is it?

[.5mv^2]

Have you shot the 160's in your 1911? You are talking like you have done so. The rounds actually shoot great. Impact is at point of aim and groups are tight. The SD is 10. I am not getting any set back. Yep the guns were made for 200+ grains.

The rounds release from the clips before the cartridge is centered in the bore. Yep I call them magazine clips you call them feed lips. Obviously you understood my definition of what I was saying and could have left the comment out. The nose of the cartridge is in the chamber and the back is still at the level of the mag.

I don't have one in front of me but I can assure you that they are shorter than the 200 grain RN FP that I have been buying. Many times everything goes great with the 160. Almost no failures just boom boom boom. But once in a while there is this glitch.

The point of aim is great. Accuracy is great.

My plan is to trial an other mag as I mentioned. I am thinking that the mag has released the round before the bullet had snuggled up into the chamber enough to cause it to slide in.

In this day and age of lead prices going through the roof who could blame me for wanting my bullets to use less of the material.

[prangr51]

Im going to guess its the magazine, I load my 255s (heavier I know...) to a pretty short length of 1.137" and I have nose dive issues above all else.

[km101]

If you are experiencing this with the last 2-3 rnds., you probably have a week magazine spring. A new Wolf spring will cure it probably. Mag. springs will weaken if the mag is left loaded a long time, and a stovepipe is the result. Change it out and it should go away.

[blackbike]

They told me not to stresch my mag. spring. but it worked.
Search 1911 feed proublems, there are a few, and its a good read too.
BB

[.5mv^2]

Obviously the shorter rounds with a shorter radius ogive stretch the limits of the mag.

I think my mags are welded together I have about 8 of them in different brands. My wife shoots a Taurus with mags that come apart. She wasn't shooting those mags when her Taurus had trouble with feeding these short rounds.

Over penetration I know won't be an issue with these short bullets. It doesn't really need a highly technical bullet in a 45 like it does in a smaller caliber.

[6bg6ga]

You might also polish the feed ramp if you already haven't done so. A while back I was having all kinds of trouble with a Colt Officers 1911 in stainless. Tired of all the problems and ready to take a cutting torch to it I ran it over to my neighbor whose brother is a gunsmith. Despite the fact the gun had only experienced a 50 round life he replaced all the springs in the gun and it came back to me working almost perfect. It still experienced feed problems when trying to feed 200gr semi wad cutters or anything lighter than that. I had a drimmel and ended up polishing the heck out of the feed ramp and it now feeds and shoots like my Gold cup.

When I had experience problems with the inability of the officers to feed I also had a shock buffer installed and those in the know here told me to remove it. Well, I did and the problem still continued. After checking the ramp angle and the ultra polish of the feed ramp the gun function correctly WITH or WITHOUT the shock buffer pad.

I personally have used the so called under weight bullets in my 1911's and haven't experienced problem one. I for one would be willing to bet that with a good mag spring and a magazine feed lip your gun will chamber and function correctly.

[.5mv^2]

Polish the feed ramp, novel idea. I have only been loading these 8 at time. Take them out my back door and blast them into the berm. I have to admit that my testing has been minimal and I am hoping that something will make them work for me. I don't have much room to work on OAL, as mentioned they don't have much sidewall

I know I won't be using a dremel maybe starting with some 400 wet and dry on a dowel.

[6bg6ga]

Its all in your experience level and your comfort level. You can obtain good results using either method. A dowel rod with 600 grit would be a nice way to start with minimal ill effects. You might try valve grinding compound instead of water.

[35remington]

This is far from my first 1911 rodeo, and yes I've shot that bullet. The why has to do with my single shot Contender barrel in this caliber and was therefore curious about how it would work in my 1911's, but that's another story.

Proper nomenclature helps convey your problem correctly. Therefore it's important to call the parts of your pistol by their correct names. Calling magazine feed lips "feed lips" conveys that you are 1911 knowledgeable. I would and do think this has some value as you move forward with your 1911 experience and when you compare notes and experiences with other 1911 users.

First, stay the heck away from the feed ramp on the frame, as altering the angle or rounding the corner at the top of the feed ramp (even slightly) is likely to change feeding for the worse. This is the single most ill advised piece of advice given to 1911 owners. Please do not modify any part of the pistol itself until you understand the consequences of botched "improvements." Doing this incorrectly can lead to a serious repair bill. If you want to know the "whys" I can further explain.

When a pistol jams, it is virtually never a "feed ramp smoothness" issue. Stay away from polishing it. Address the cause of the problem that the jam is indicating. Since the nose of the bullet is in the chamber and not stuck on the feed ramp, feed ramp angle or finish is not the cause of your problem. Again, leave it alone, please.

Your description of the jams is conclusive. Why? Because the position of the cartridge when it jams indicates the cause(s) of the jam. It has to do with magazine release timing. Your mixture of magazines confuses the issue, as it is possible they have different feed lip shapes and release timing.

If this occurs, is it with some of the magazines or all of them? If it is all of them, your choice is to either quicken the release timing, which is possible only by modifying the magazines that will allow modification, or to choose another bullet. If it is only some of those magazines, your decision is simple: set those aside when using this bullet.

Rather than modifying the pistol in areas that are not warranted by your description of the jam, let's go after the problem in a more specific fashion.

Try your extreme spreads with powder near the bullet and powder near the primer when chronographing and report back. Such powder position variations often occur when the pistol is drawn from a holster prior to firing. Just somethiing to be aware of.

[35remington]

BTW, be certain when diagnosing the jam that the breechface's bottom edge is not against the cartridge's extractor groove. If it is, weak springs in the magazines are the probable cause. If the rim simply has not slipped under the extractor, and the rim is against the bottom of the breechface, it's a release timing issue as I have indicated.

Release timing can, of course, be addressed by making the round longer but you've already indicated you can't do that.

[35remington]

And finally, the horrors of Dremel tools and frame ramps:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=12190

Don't modify anything yet!

[35remington]

Please read this as well, in its entirety:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=26853

[6bg6ga]

In the hands of the untalented unskilled person a dremel can destroy but then again so can a screwdriver. Can't say that I agree with everything you have to say but then again thats the great thing about this forum. We can agree to disagree. Polish a ramp carefully yes I have a without a problem many times I have and will continue to do so.

[Char-Gar]

John Moses Browning designed the pistol to cycle with 230 grain bullets. The pistol will work just fine with bullets in the 200 to 230 grain range.

Trying to shoot 160 grain bullets is asking the pistol to do something it was not designed to do. You should expect to have problems. Just because Lee sells something does not mean it is a good idea and you need to buy it.

I certainly would not jack with the pistol trying to get it to feed those things. Not a good idea..but it is your pistol, so have at it, if you are so inclined.

[35remington]

For this particular problem, polishing the ramp is not relevant. Advice to polish a ramp without mention of the problems that occur in so doing may allow the uninformed to make an error. Just trying to prevent that from happening here.

"Polishing the ramp" has done more harm to 1911's, probably, than it has ever helped. That's why the Dremel tool has attained considerably notoriety among those who work on 1911's. And not in a good way.

First rule of thumb in fixing a problem is to leave the gun itself unaltered while investigating the problem. Second rule of fixing a problem is to be sure the recommended remedy is actually the correct one.

Both those things apply here. Always, always suspect and check out the magazine first when diagnosing a feed problem.

Don't alter anything that cannot be undone! A feed ramp is a prime example.

Before ever touching a gun, especially a 1911, a person should be well versed on the importance and specifications of the various parts, and just why they are as they are. Just attacking things with a Dremel or sandpaper is not the way to do it.

[6bg6ga]

John Moses Browning designed the pistol to cycle with 230 grain bullets. The pistol will work just fine with bullets in the 200 to 230 grain range.

Trying to shoot 160 grain bullets is asking the pistol to do something it was not designed to do. You should expect to have problems. Just because Lee sells something does not mean it is a good idea and you need to buy it.

I certainly would not jack with the pistol trying to get it to feed those things. Not a good idea..but it is your pistol, so have at it, if you are so inclined.

Its attitudes like this that tend to keep progress from happening. Just because it wasn't designed for a specific bullet doesn't mean it can't be designed or modified to use the lighter bullet. A lot of different wildcats were designed from the tried and true calibers. With all due respect I simply do not buy this.

Remington you sound like you make a living from working on 1911's and are possibly thinking you might loose a sale. Ease up a little buddy, ok? A simple light polish isn't going to bring the roof down on someones head. There is a difference between butchering and a light polish. In my neck of the woods where a lot of us shoot some comp the ramp job goes with the trigger job as its a necessity. Every part of the guns we shoot are hand fitted so performance, reliability, and accuracy are at the highest level possible. Kinda like balancing and blueprinting an engine. The best do and the rest watch.

[35remington]

With all due respect, the wise learn and watch......and then do. The best recommend the proper fix for the problem. If the car's brakes fail to stop the car you don't work on the engine.

The ramp job simply isn't necessary most of the time, nor here. Since you didn't bother to explain how to polish the ramp correctly, my intervention was needed. Butchering is all too easy to do, and "easing up" won't do the OP any service.

It is important to understand the compromises that come about in trying to get a design to feed a cartridge it was not designed to feed. In feeding a shorter than standard cartridge, the feeding angle is increased due to the later feed ramp strike and necessarily higher angle of approach the short cartridge must assume to make it into the chamber. This makes the rim approach the extractor at a steeper angle as well and does, in fact, make it less likely that the rim will find its way under the extractor. The quickened release timing of magazines designed to feed short rounds increase the angularity of cartridge feeding in most instances as well.....and again, make it less likely the rim of the cartridge will find its way under the extractor.

It is important to understand that going outside a design's preferences does, in fact, increase the likelihood of misfeeds and no amount of "improvements" will change the fact that the odds of proper feeding will often go down the further from those design limits one goes. The relevant physical dimensions of the pistol itself cannot be changed to any great degree.

So Chargar is quite correct in his point.......you can only go so far, and so short, and expect a good level of reliability. If you want to go beyond that, you're talking about changing the magazine length front to back and distance from the frame ramp to the rear of the magwell, and increasing the top round's height in relation to the chamber might help as well. At that point it's no longer a 1911.

You do need to "buy that" in respect to this design. And it is inarguable that this bullet was not intended for the 1911. If OAL gets too short, even the early releasing magazines may not release early enough. With these nonstandard designs, the best you can do is often not enough to get some of these pistols to feed reliably.

That needs to be acknowledged. The 1911 isn't a blank check for any bullet design you can stuff in the case.

[MtGun44]

You probably have what 35Rem is saying - weak mag spring. Also make sure the mag
has the early release point design, not the original GI lips. Either right or left works
best with short rounds.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=2355

Bill

[6bg6ga]

As one that HAS used 160's in the 1911 I can attest to the fact it can be done and done reliably. Yes, I could elaborate on how to polish a ramp but then again I know how to do it and do not feel a need to start a polish 101 thread here on this forum.

With all due respect, the wise learn and watch......and then do.

My experience and skill has allowed me to do what others generally have tried and failed to do. My experience as both a machinist and inspector over the last 40 plus years has served me well and allowed me to do what others generally don't have the ability to do.

My suggestion is to acknowledge that it can be done but possibly not by everyone. It actually sounds like you know what you are talking about but do not discount the fact that others may also have an equivalent experience level or even possibly a slightly higher level. I will give you the change the mag spring and
install aftermarket or custom made feed lips and take care of the obvious first and then proceed. I go to the next step which has served me well and that is to polish. You have what works for you and so do I .

[2shot]

You probably have what 35Rem is saying - weak mag spring. Also make sure the mag
has the early release point design, not the original GI lips. Either right or left works
best with short rounds.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=2355

Bill



Bill hit a homerun with this!

My 1911 that I built for bullseye will feed H&G 68's all day long with the mag on the right (hybrid lips) or the center mag (GI). I get FTE with jams that are caused by the extractor catching the rim when I use these hybrid mags with eithe Lyman 452460's or even worse with Magnus #801 button nose WC. If I switch to the mag on the left (WC lips) the feeding problems go away with these two bullet styles.

It is a timing issue like others have said and the rim is getting caught on the extractor because it's (the cartridge) is getting released too soon.

Check to see if you're getting a burr on the rim the next time you have a FTF. IF you are get some new mags for it. That's the cheap way to correct this without damaging your gun. Checkmate has these mags for under $20. I use Checkmate all the time and have never had a problem with them!



2shot

[.5mv^2]

It is good to know that someone else has scienced the 1911 shooting the short bullet. Tks Mtngun44.

I have kimber mags, colt mags, springfield mags and taurus mags. I have only used one Colt mag at present. I will see of some of my other mags shoot better.

My cheap High point does great with these short bullets only loosing about 50 fps, I think do to it's blowback design.

Polishing the ramp, I don't see how it could hurt. I have done it many times on an as needed basis. Manufacturers finish their guns to various standards. I have some expensive guns with a nicely finished ramp some cheap guns with one carved with a coarse tool. I enjoy them all.

As far as positional effects of powder, I don't understand the importance to this conversation. Not sure why it was brought up. I am using .76 cc of Promo right now.

[35remington]

.5, if the ramp is already smooth, and I bet it is, the polishing won't help a bit and carries the risk of rounding the sharp top edge of the frame ramp or creating an irregularity. These sharp edges and uniformity of ramp slope are needed for reliability and it is all too easy to botch it. If it's smooth already, or even just reasonably smooth, what benefit is more polishing? The gun is more discriminating as to ramp angle than it is to finish.

The hybrid design magaziine actually predates the straight rear lip "wadcutter" style seen on the far left in the photo above. GI magazines were simply flared to create the hybrid style, and sometime later, in the 70's, Colt standardized it and offered it in seven shot format, included with their pistols.

If you have a seven shot Colt magazine you already have it. The hybrid, that is. It is improved with Wolff's 10% extra power spring. Excellent magazine, probably the most desirable all around magazine extant.

If you have an eight shot Colt (has to have the prancing horsie on the bottom of the seven shot or eight shot to be genuine, and probably made by Checkmate with a "C" on the bottom) you have the wadcutter lips. It probably also has the Devel follower with the short rear skirt, and, quite frankly, this is a really bad follower design that reduces the 1911's reliability just to get another shot in the mag. Not a good trade.

When it comes to release point, from latest to earliest, you have:

GI, then hybrid, then wadcutter. The wadcutter came about and was popularized in the target matches with the shortnose wadcutters used for target shooting.

There is a downside......the wadcutter magazine holds the cartridge rim low while the round climbs the feedramp, and the penalty is more kachunky feeding because the round approaches the chamber at an angle. It also presents the cartridges rim at the greatest angle to the extractor, and has a lower odds of getting there. Of the three designs, the GI and the hybrid feed the 1911 like JMB intended it to be fed. Of the three designs, the GI and the hybrid have the most controlled feed, not "letting go" of the cartridge until the other part of the gun has a secure grasp on it.

With some 1911 magazine designs, the cartrdige is "flung through space" rather than fed in a controlled manner. The wadcutter magazine is "semi controlled feed" in that the cartridge is released when the rim is still well away from the extractor. The hybrid and GI don't release the cartridge until it is very near and under the extractor. Sorta like shooting free throws from the line versus halfcourt......which one is more likely to go where it is supposed to?

Here is a picture I've shown several times, with a hybrid compared to a McCormick (wadcutter). Both cartridges are near their release points. Note that the hybrid lets the rear of the cartridge rise as it goes forward, placing the rim near the extractor and reducing the angularity and "ka-chunkiness" of feeding when the proper rounds are used.

The difference is quite noticeable.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/johnnyrem/Feedlips.jpg

The pistol is more reliable when it is fed as JMB intended it to be fed.....who woulda thunk it? That's hybrid and GI with rounds suited to these magazines. The hybrid works as an all arounder with a bottom limit of about 1.200" or a bit under.....I've actually had good luck feeding 1.185" shortnose SWC's with them too, but shorter is dicey. Both release too late, probably, with the short Lee bullet, and the GI definitely does. The GI is most suited to ball, but it feeds like silk. Again.....a magazine feeding the exact round at the exact overall length it was designed to feed.....and it's super reliable. Just as JMR intended.

Who would have guessed?

We have forgotten that. Not all magazines all equal. Most fail to feed as JMB intended the 1911 to feed.

I mentioned position sensitivity as it goes hand in hand with shallow bullet seating and greater space for the powder to move around, but I must say I applaud your use of Promo with this round. Not only is it bulky, taking up a lot of the case space, but it also is fairly position insensitive. A good combo, so you are not just saving money, but probably using one of the very best powders for the application of a shallow seated bullet.

Kudos to you, sir. Well done. I can name several other powders that don't do as well. Titegroup is another candidate for low extreme spreads under such conditions.

[35remington]

Here's a picture of a GI modified to a hybrid style, as the armorer used a tool that gradually flared the lips in the middle, but the release point is the same as the later, purpose manufactured hybrids Colt offered.

It is the magazine in the middle, and it was obviously originally a GI magazine. A new Checkmate GI is on the right, and a new Checkmate hybrid magazine with the more abrupt flare in the middle is on the left. All are tapered lip magazines, which the 1911 was originally designed to use.

I got the magazine from my father, and it was modified, likely, sometime in the late '50's or early '60's. It is well worn, and semi retired. The follower shelf, as you can see, has locked back a lot of slide stops in its time. Labeled as "magazine #1" in my collection, and I first observed it was the most reliable magazine I owned long, long before I understood exactly why that was so. I suppose I could freshen it up with a new follower but it has earned its retirement. I cannot even tell you how many rounds have gone through it, but it probably is well into the five figures.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/johnnyrem/hybridMGiGi.jpg

[bobthenailer]

Actually JM Browning orgionaly designed the pistol to fire a 200 gr bullet ! it was the armed service brass who wanted a 230 gr bullet. so it was changed !

[.5mv^2]

I looked at my 1911 mags and all but one were the WC type. One was a GI.

It is pretty complex to see how the bullet jumps into the chamber with the barrel kneeling down to reload. Wait too long and the barrel is getting out of position.

[Steel185]

I have a SWC 160gr .451 bullet that i cast often (2K rounds shot), and at first 100 rounds with this bullet i was about to give up. I had a random FTF, looking at loads, COL, brass, alloy mixture, even bullet lube, until i realized this happened every so often and i have 7 different mags. I numbered my mags and "#5" caused this problem, FTF on the last or second to last round.

easy fix, ordered more mags.

[.5mv^2]

Thanks Steel.

I have shot 4.9 to 6.2gr of Promo. Like how they shoot.

[35remington]

As wadcutter magazines are the earliest of the release point magazines, if the round won't feed with these, there's probably not much you can do. You can't speed up or adjust a wadcutter magazine.

A 1911, properly fed, doesn't have the rounds "jump" into the chamber. They get handed off from one controlling surface to the next and never "fly through space."

The barrel doesn't get out of position as it awaits the arrival of the round. It doesn't move much during the feeding event. Rather, the rim of the cartridge must pop up in time to engage the extractor as the round breaks over to the horizontal.

If the rim doesn't get under the extractor, it results in a jam like you've been seeing, known as a three point jam. That's release point timing, usually. If the bottom of the breechface is in the cartridge's extractor groove, that's a BOB misfeed. Weak magazine spring. Eight shot magazines are more prone to this, and it happens on the last or second to last shot in the magazine. The slide is outrunning the magazine.

As a controlled feed device, the 1911 requires a certain amount of bullet length forward of the case mouth as it makes it more likely the rim will find its way under the extractor. Said another way, a short round hits the frame ramp too late.

What is the overall length of the rounds you are loading with the Lee bullet? That matters a lot.

There's pretty much no way a GI magazine will work with the Lee bullet. Not 100 percent, anyway. In fact, the Lee 160 may not be a 100 percent bullet with any magazine you've got.

[.5mv^2]

All of the failures I got were in one magazine and all on the second to the bottom round in two different stock 1911 type weapons. Neither one has ever failed with other factory or hand loads 200-230 grain.

If feed lips were the main problem I think I would expect to see more randomness in the failure. Low spring tension might be a better source of the problem. I understand that if the bullet is too short then the barrel is tipping back up before the nose is starting in very deep.

My reloads have varied between 1.11 and 1.18" (which doesn't give much purchase between the case and bullet.)

My symptoms are too much alike Steel185's to not consider his solution.
thanks


As wadcutter magazines are the earliest of the release point magazines, if the round won't feed with these, there's probably not much you can do. You can't speed up or adjust a wadcutter magazine.

A 1911, properly fed, doesn't have the rounds "jump" into the chamber. They get handed off from one controlling surface to the next and never "fly through space."

The barrel doesn't get out of position as it awaits the arrival of the round. It doesn't move much during the feeding event. Rather, the rim of the cartridge must pop up in time to engage the extractor as the round breaks over to the horizontal.

If the rim doesn't get under the extractor, it results in a jam like you've been seeing, known as a three point jam. That's release point timing, usually. If the bottom of the breechface is in the cartridge's extractor groove, that's a BOB misfeed. Weak magazine spring. Eight shot magazines are more prone to this, and it happens on the last or second to last shot in the magazine. The slide is outrunning the magazine.

As a controlled feed device, the 1911 requires a certain amount of bullet length forward of the case mouth as it makes it more likely the rim will find its way under the extractor. Said another way, a short round hits the frame ramp too late.

What is the overall length of the rounds you are loading with the Lee bullet? That matters a lot.

There's pretty much no way a GI magazine will work with the Lee bullet. Not 100 percent, anyway. In fact, the Lee 160 may not be a 100 percent bullet with any magazine you've got.

[35remington]

The barrel doesn't "tip up" before the bullet nose enters into it. The barrel does not begin to move forward until the breechface area of the slide contacts it. The feeding phase is long over by then, and all that remains is for the slide and barrel to return fully to battery.

Hand cycle your slide to verify this and watch how the parts interact. The barrel doesn't move much during the feeding cycle.

Unless......the bullet is striking the bottom of the barrel ramp and shoving it forward slightly, causing the three point. The barrel ramp is a clearance, and if the bullet hits it too low it can cause a three point jam. Properly fed, the barrel does not move in feeding.

The bullet hits lowest on the frame ramp when feeding the first round out of the magazine, and subsequent rounds "climb the ramp" and hit progressively higher, with the top rounds impacting near the top of the frame ramp. Your gun might be directing the last rounds into the barrel ramp and hanging up the pistol.

If one magazine malfunctions, do as I suggested very early in this thread and don't use it. All that remains is to verify reliability at your chosen overall length in all the rest of your magazines. This will take a fair amount of shooting.

Just to see if it is fixable, look to see the exact position of the round when it jams in the suspect magazine. Don't clear it before verifying whether the breech face bottom edge is in the extractor groove of the case or not. If it is, it's the magazine spring. If it's jammed with the rim on the breech face but not under the extractor it's timing.

If the round is hitting the barrel ramp there ought to be some evidence of that on the ramp by the marks in the soot. Take a good look at that as well.

1.11" is really, really, really short. It is as short as, or shorter than, the OAL of the Lyman 452389, which was a cylindrical wadcutter with a very short nose. Oftentimes tricks had to be done to get this round to feed, like opening up the extractor hook angle to permit a steeply angled rim to enter.

[Hamish]

First off, my hat is of to 35remington for his patience and exemplary attempt at helping the OP. I'm not so sure that I would have come back for a second helping after being snapped at for trying help someone learn proper nomenclature. Persistence and clear, precise posting made the case nicely.

.5, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iak3xMmjb0Q&feature=relmfu Until you watch the 1911 in slo-mo, you would never believe that the cartridge could do this and still end up in the chamber.

6bg, have you ever heard the term "showing out"?

[2shot]

Oftentimes tricks had to be done to get this round to feed, like opening up the extractor hook angle to permit a steeply angled rim to enter.[/QUOTE]


I have seen sharp edges on some extractors. What I do before opening the extractor hook is to round over any sharp edges on the extractor and see if that will correct the problem. I just did a big name longslide that the guy was having a problem with and didn't want to send the gun back and wait 6-8 months for the return trip. I got tired of his alibi's when shooting matches so I offered to fix the gun for him. I rolled over the edges of the extractor without changing any dimensions and it has worked perfect since.

My gut instinct is like I have said and so have other people is, buy a new mag before trying anything else. Thery're cheap and if it doesn't work you still have a new mag.

2shot

[bobthenailer]

I have shot many10s of thousands of the Saeco #063 170gr swc bullet in several 45 acp pistols with no problems in some and others are a bit finnickey, so i use a 200gr #068 in them.
I bought this 170 gr mould when i put a compensator on a 1911 in 45 acp it was the rage at the time when the 38 super was begining to gain popularty , it is a very accurate bullet with the same bearing surface as the #068 but the nose section is scalloped out more and can cause a bobbel in some guns in others it runs fine!

[MtGun44]

+1 on post #31. We have had this subject discussed several times. Few understand the
1911 feeding system, and even then - individual examples will sometimes have a
preference. For example - my CCW Colt LW Commander will feed reliably but roughly
my preferred Speer Gold Dot 230 ammo with the modern WC parallel lip mags. If you hand
cycle it VERY slowly, it will actually park a round with the lower front edge of the HP
on the bottom feed ramp of the bbl AND STAY THERE if there is zero velocity. At any
velocity, it pops up the ramp and feeds. BUT with a GI mag, the nose rises as it feeds
up the tapered lips and it feeds silky smooth and will NOT stop at any point. This gun
in CCW service ONLY sees GI lip mags. It WILL work (so far 100%) with the others but
they really feel rough and wrong in slow motion hand cycling.

Slow cycle your gun with either dummies or with the FIRING PIN REMOVED, and see how
it feels and watch what the round does. Can be useful.

Bill

[.5mv^2]

I just read your post a few minutes ago so I thought, time for more testing. I had polished the feed lips and followers on all of my mags soon after I brought this up.

Stepped out my back door and shot 7 mags with these bullets in them and did not have a malfunction.

Am I out of trouble? I doubt it but it is looking more like a mag problem..

It makes sense that the tapered lip would be more gentle and keep the round more in line with the barrel than the shorter straight lips. At present all of the lips are smoother than they were before.

I have built many things from composite. Maintaining the correct shape always looks and works better than a highly polished but wavy contour. I wouldn't dream of using something like a dremel with a sanding tool. To work on the edges of the feed lips I used some folded up wet and dry paper and used it like a file.

Thanks to all those who replied.

[Char-Gar]

[QUOTE=6bg6ga;1848731]Its attitudes like this that tend to keep progress from happening. Just because it wasn't designed for a specific bullet doesn't mean it can't be designed or modified to use the lighter bullet. A lot of different wildcats were designed from the tried and true calibers. With all due respect I simply do not buy this.

To recognize the design limitations of a pistol is anti-progress? I don't know if you are old enough to remember the wildcat craze following WWII when everybody was jumping on the "lynx rufas" bandwagon. A few of the early wildcats like the 25 Neider which became the 25-06 and the 22-250 which became a factory round filled a empty space in the factory line-up. The vast majority of wildcats and there were hundreds were just an exercise in vanity and often foolishness.

I am over 50 years deep into the 1911 pistol and have loaded and fired well over 1/4 million rounds though various handguns of that model. I have learned the limits of good sense in dealing with this great old handgun which remains my all time favorite.

As I stated, I think anybody could do anything they want with their own property, as long as they don't endanger anybody else. Should they discover something new about the limits of the handgun they will certainly be heralded for the effort. But, there are many of us who have taken the handgun to it's limits. When we share those limits, we don't take kindly to being labeled as a barrier to progress.

[35remington]

.5, do not polish the followers. If you don't understand why, I can tell you.

Please do not undertake any further alterations until you understand the significance of those alterations. You may be and likely are messing with things that should be left alone.

Polishing the feed lips of wadcutter magazines will not alter their feeding characteristics for the better, no matter what you have found. The release point and feed angles are not altered by polishing.

Polishing the followers is detrimental. Please ask why before continuing further.

This is the exact reason why I did not and do not recommend polishing the feed ramp sans instruction or clearly defined need.

Do not fix what does not need fixing, and do not "fix" without understanding the consequences of said "fixing." You're throwing guesses around and not helping yourself.