Project: Pay for the press

[ngray]

So after several years of loading pistol with my 550, I finally stepped up to the plate to do some 223. What I've learned from listening in the past month, I cannot thank you and others enough for, I would not be looking at a pile of gauge-checked brass right now without it. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

So as I said, I started with the Dillon 550, loading my .40 cal for IDPA and Steel. I know, not the best caliber for either. What I've enjoyed the most has been the action rifle at my local club, but the ammo bite to do that and practice for it always put me off, almost as much as the thought of processing military brass. But about a month ago, I finally persuaded the wife, and called Profire Arms and Supply in Indiana, and got a 1050 complete with the trimmer.

So here's the rub. Sit down now. I *may* have explained to my wife that I'll be saving lots of money by having the ability to process military brass, but beyond that, I *may* have further explained that I can defer the cost of the press by processing 223 brass for others. Right. So you think you know where the post is going at this point. But no :)

I want to know that what I *think* I know about head stamp sorting, dent sorting, swage adjustment, shoulder/headspace, sizing, trimming, lubing, delubing is all correct. While I'm as pleased as can be with what I loaded for myself, and as confident as I am about it, I'm not so sure about slapping up brass for sale for others to use without getting some input first.

So I have an idea. I'm going to give away brass, in the hope of getting some constructive feedback. It's simple. You convince me in a post below that you know something about 223 brass, and I'll send you about 50 cases of fully processed Lake City military brass.

A couple rules.
1) I have an idea how much I want to give away, when it's gone, that's that! I'll close out the thread as soon as I have my list.
2) I probably won't pick everyone who responds, especially if you just bark 'first!' and send me your address. I'm not looking for a novel on your reloading experience, just convince me you have experience.
3) I am pushing my shoulders back for autoloaders, which is a couple thous past an ideal shoulder for a bolt gun. If you are a bench rest type, this may not turn your crank. With that said, this will almost ALL be Lake City brass. I already pulled out my WC, FC, PMC, Nato, and Hornady for a later run.
4) I pay for everything, no need to throw money. I'll probably send by media mail or small FRB.
5) Feedback within a week or so of receipt would be super. You can PM me or post here, whatever you're comfortable with. That's all I'm asking for, brass is yours to keep.

If you think this is a good deal, well I agree... for me! This has been a long learning process for me, and I hope that you realize that I value the feedback, and appreciate your time.

[EDG]

What method are you using to measure the shoulder position on the resized brass?
Can you tell the differences in the shoulder position when you vary the amount of lube, speed of the sizing stroke or dwell time at the top of the sizing stroke.
I do not know .223 brass that well but I have formed a lot of metric brass from more common US cases. When forming a new case for a bolt gun from a longer case I have found that the items in the second sentence can all be detected. I give forming a new case a lot of attention to get the shoulder just right to ensure maximum case life. When forming new cases I have a lot of time as well as money invested. As a result, I will lower the case slightly and rotate the case 1/2 turn and resize again slowly with a 2 to 4 second dwell at full up. I can usually get all cases in a lot sized to the exact same dimension to the limit of resolution of my calipers.

[LUBEDUDE]

What a gracious idea. I have no input other than welcome to he forum. :-)

[jmorris]

I'm not looking for a novel on your reloading experience, just convince me you have experience. They say a photo is worth 1000 words so videos should be worth a bit more. I've been where you are at and don't need your brass but I'll be glad to tell you how you did with it. Don't need 50, just a few will do.



These are the machines I have used for 223, in the process of switching everything over to the setup in the last video. One pass for process and another to load.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/th_an1.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/?action=view&current=an1.mp4)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/trimmer.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_1050.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=1050.mp4)

This one is also a video
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_VIDEO0114.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=VIDEO0114.mp4)

[ngray]

#edg - You just blew my mind :) "Can you tell the differences in the shoulder position when you vary the amount of lube, speed of the sizing stroke or dwell time at the top of the sizing stroke."
I have varied the amount of lube, but predominantly to control the force required to size the brass. As far as the speed of the stroke, I would say it's less than the Dillon advertised 1200/hr, as I found that the shells feed from the casefeeder more reliably with a very even upstroke. As far as the downstroke, I simply focus on 'smooooth'. As far as the sizing dwell, I had never thought of that, but I could see how that would have an impact. I'll give it a shot, but can you tell me how substantial an impact it has had on 'routine' resizing, as opposed to completely reforming the case to another caliber? I'd surely appreciate it. As far as measurement, I use a dillon gauge, and hornady lnl headspace gauge on my 6" calipers.

#lubedude - Thanks, If I blow a local etiquette, clue me in :)

#jmorris - Man, you're my idol. I watched those videos a few weeks ago, and I'd be lying If I told you there weren't 3 ATMegas sitting on my desk right now along with encoders, microswitches, and ir and piezo rangefinders. I'm going to use them to collect motion data off the press, and basically do alarms. That's for the next couple weeks, once I get the process golden.

[jmorris]

If you think that blows your mind you should see the rate the form aluminum cans from a pill size hunk of aluminum, or how factory ammo is made.

What we are talking about is really slow relitive to production methods.

The 1050 is a great machine but pretty far from perfect. Not bashing it, as its far better than 30k for something better.

[Blammer]

I shoot 223 in a variety of firearms, everything from bench guns for prarie dogs WAY out there to the AR15 for bulk blasting ammo.

I've processed more than my fair share of milsurp rounds. I used to have no money and lots of time so I took 1,000 rounds of LC milsurp and made them into match brass for my bench guns. deprime, resize, trim, swage out primer pocket, clean, tumble, wt, then measure internal capacity for each, sort etc... etc.... and come up with 'groups' for match shooting.

I think you have a great idea to process round for your fellow shooters and suspect that if you visit the AR15 site you may have more work than you want. :)

I think I could give you a fair estimate of your quality of work.

Darrell

[ngray]

Still looking for more.

[EDG]

[QUOTE=ngray;1847033]#edg - You just blew my mind :) "Can you tell the differences in the shoulder position when you vary the amount of lube, speed of the sizing stroke or dwell time at the top of the sizing stroke."
I have varied the amount of lube, but predominantly to control the force required to size the brass. As far as the speed of the stroke, I would say it's less than the Dillon advertised 1200/hr, as I found that the shells feed from the casefeeder more reliably with a very even upstroke. As far as the downstroke, I simply focus on 'smooooth'. As far as the sizing dwell, I had never thought of that, but I could see how that would have an impact. I'll give it a shot, but can you tell me how substantial an impact it has had on 'routine' resizing, as opposed to completely reforming the case to another caliber? I'd surely appreciate it. As far as measurement, I use a dillon gauge, and hornady lnl headspace gauge on my 6" calipers. /QUOTE]

I use the Stony Point tool now marketed by Hornady to gauge headspace. My calipers are only good for seeing about plus or minus .001. I can detect changes as much as .002 due to the variations mentioned above when working on .30-06 and .303 brass. I form a lot of 30-06 military brass to 7.65X53 Mauser and to 8X57 Mauser. I form the .303 British brass to 6.5X53R Dutch Mannlicher. I use new .303 brass to make the Dutch round since firing brass even once in a Lee-Enfield damages it. Since the brass is new and there for expensive to start with I make sure that I size it to barely drag when closing the Mannlicher bolt. I can tell a difference of .001 with my calipers and I can tell the difference when closing the rifle bolt too. The first 100 .303 cases that I formed yielded 100 good cases even though I had to use 4 dies. I did however use about 10 old fired .303 case to set up the dies.
The 30-06 brass is tougher to form (but uses only 2 dies) and causes more variation so it is easier to tell when I did not use enough dwell or lube. Those make the headspace dim longer on the case from the head to the shoulder.

My press is a very rigid RCBS Rockchucker. To minimize variations the last sizing with a FL sizer die is done twice. I size slow and dwell. I retract the case from the die enough to spin it 180 degrees (without pulling it over the expancer ball) I then size again once more slowly and dwell about 3 seconds at the top of the stroke. Doing all of this makes the finished cases all come out exactly the same.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

ngray,

I wrote articles on rifle shooting/competition for Precision Shooting Magazine for nearly twelve years. I was a staff writer, on the masthead for eight of those years.

I've competed at the Super Shoot, the Schuetzenfest Regionals and qualified for their Nationals in Golden, CO, Wounded Knee,ND, and Raton, NM, for a number of years.

I shot Hunter Class Bench Rest for eight years, and finished in a tie for seventh in the nationwide TCL more than once. I finished in the Top Five at every match I shot in after five learning experience ones with a stock 700 Varmint Special in 308 Winchester.

I own and know how to use a ball head tubing micrometer. I use Neil Jones CPS powder measures for accuracy loading. I have an Arbor Press and Wilson dies, and I know how to use them as well.

That aside, I must congratulate you for finding an excuse your wife bought, to acquire a 1050.

Rich
Sua Sponte

[Blammer]

ngray,

That aside, I must congratulate you for finding an excuse your wife bought, to acquire a 1050.

Rich
Sua Sponte

I agree! that there is the true mark of a Genius! (getting new toys with the wife's approval. :) )

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Without looking at your setup, I can't entirely gauge, but I have done a lot of milsurp brass in that caliber recently

Some things to think about:

1. RCBS lube die ahead of your trim die on the press - great for progressives, tough to over lube
2. Lemi Shine, which can be found at Walmart in the grocery section/cleaning supply area - make hot acid bath, soak brass, dump out, dry and then tumble
3. Quality seating die, meaning Redding Match or equivalent
4. 50/50 mixture of corn cob and ground walnut media
6. Many types of sorting are not generally productive when it comes to .223/5.56 brass, so refine your sorting down to only those that are worth while.
7. Nothing beats a Dillon swager for military primer pockets. Make sure it's adjusted and cleaned. Swage after cleaning and sizing/trimming.

Just a few thoughts,

Dave

[ngray]

To those who sent an address, I'll be working on the lot today. Once I get those out, there were a few others I plan to request an address for. Thank you!

[375RUGER]

.

this will almost ALL be Lake City brass. I already pulled out my WC, FC, PMC, Nato, and Hornady for a later run.


Your Nato, FC and WCC will be very close to the same capacity as the LC.
I process all the above headstamps together.
Check the PMC, it can be small or large, the PMC I that have is the same capacity as LC and I process it the same.

I would not mix any of the above with Hornady, Federal, Winchester or R-P headstamps they will all have about the same case capactiy, much greater than the LC and others.

If the headstamp has a cross and circle it is NATO spec brass. I assume you meant the cross and circle when you said NATO brass.

Free info, welcome to the board.

[Blammer]

received the package of 50 today. PM incoming