supplementing the lube on RF ammo to reduce leading?

[NoZombies]

I'm wondering if I can reduce the leading I'm getting in a few of my rimfires by adding lube. My initial thought is to tumble lube them with JPW and see how that works.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tread this path and might have some advice?

[stubshaft]

I have never owned a 22 that had a leading problem. What are you shooting.

[35remington]

I wouldn't tumble lube the whole cartridge.

What brand of cartridges are these? Sometimes the cheapies don't have sufficient lube, but any quality brand should have no leading whatsoever.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, NoZombies. I don't get much leading from rimfire either..what brand are you using? You might try some good match ammo..Eley seems to have alot of lube..sometimes too much..especially on a hot day!
You asked about past practice...The old master himself, H.M. Pope said he used to re-work all his rimfire ammo for more consistency. I have read the 1930's prone match shooters had all kinds of home-made concoctions..as a matter of fact..over on www.rimfireaccuracy.com..some of those guys are still doing it!
If it is still online, over on www.pronematch.com..there is 1930's movie camera footage of smallbore match between Britan & US, one shooter is clearly seen picking up ctg. from box, twirling it between lips..before loading! I guess points were of more concern in those days than lead contamination!

[Nobade]

Some of the local guys would put white lithium grease on their bullets with a little paintbrush to reduce leading and shoot better. I don't think they do that any more, but for a while around here it was kind of a fad. Dust sticking to your bullets is pretty hard on barrels as some of them learned.

That said, the only time I have had leading problems with a 22LR is when I got some really cheap ammo that didn't have any lube on it. I suppose you could dip them in warm Recluse 45-45-10 lube to see what that did for you.

[uscra112]

I've had leading in .22s, but it's always been some mechanical defect. I have one old boys' rifle that leads due to worn and very rough throat.

I've read about the practice of licking bullets. Apparently it didn't actually do any good. Was an old wives' tale that got started and couldn't be discredited enough to make people stop doing it.

I rework bulk ammo, like CCI MiniMags, by swaging the bullet (actually the whole cartridge) to increase and uniform the bullet diameter. It has made a measurable difference in a 10/22. Did nothing whatsoever for Wolf Match.

I have also tried to see if adding a bit of Lee Liquid Alox to bullets would make any difference to accuracy. It didn't, in any of the .22s I shoot, which is several. And it certainly does nothing at all for my Iver Johnson plinking revolver, which leads the throat ferociously no matter what I do. It's got a mis-machined frame, I've concluded. Centerline of barrel is not the same distance from the base pin as the chambers in the cylinder are.

[Jack Stanley]

Maybe Imperial die wax might help ???

Jack

[azrednek]

I honestly don't know if there is any truth in what I was told by a shooter in an adjacent lane I had a brief conversation with at the range. He claimed he sprayed his 22's with Hornady One Shot at least a day or two prior to shooting. He claimed it improved the reliability and stopped the leading in his older Sears 22 auto. The Sears rifle looked like a High Standard but it is just a guess. His ammo was loose in a coffee can and I don't recall the brand or type being mentioned. I haven't tried it so your guess is as good as mine if it will improve anything. The brief period of time I watched him shoot I didn't see any jams. I suspect the lube may build up in the chamber. Possibly like licking or lipping the cartridges he may have heard a wives tale and it only improves things in his mind. On the other hand possibly it really does improve things.

[NoZombies]

Well, I'm shooting 10/22's, and the leading only occurs in the first 5-6 inches of the barrel. I have tried 4 barrels, and they all lead with all ammo tested.

I suspect that it's because the gun is running at 700+ RPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvYzxPtbLc&feature=plcp)

I'm thinking that I'll probably try a test batch of 50 rds dipping the bullets in JPW and see how it goes. Now I just need to find the box the JPW got packed in before we moved.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have never experienced leading in any .22 I have owned or shot. All the .22 lr's from the previous era had a wax coating on them. New stuff doesn't appear to have this.

I just cleaned the bore of my Mauser ES340B rifle for the first time in 40 years. there was not the slightest trace of rust due to the coating of wax in the barrel.

The only leading I have ever seen in a .22 is when you shoot lots of Shorts in a gun with a LR chamber. You usually get some lead buildup right at the front of the chamber. However this has never been a problem or lead to a stoppage of any kind.

On your 10/22 are you just blazing away until the barrel is so hot it melts the lead? 700+RPM?

If that is what is happening then I would say slow down to about 60-100 RPM which is all the faster anyone I can shoot accurately anyway. This would explain why 4 barrels did the same thing.

This one is news to me. I think you are trying to fix the wrong problem.

Randy

[crabo]

Pam non stick spray will work for some guns. My 39A shoots SK Standard Plus much better than the Federal AutoMatch. Here is a target at 50 yards with some Pam and without using AutoMatch. You just want to use a little in a small dish and flip it around to coat the boolits.(like 45/45/10) I don't spray more than I am going to use at that time.

It depends on the gun if the pam will help. It helps on the Marlin, but not on the Volquartsen or Shilen barrels.


http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w482/Crabo308/51ff1aa2.jpg

[NoZombies]

Pam non stick spray will work for some guns.

Thanks, I'll give that a try as well!



This one is news to me. I think you are trying to fix the wrong problem.

I appreciate the advice, but let me be clear here, the intent is to shoot at 700+ RPM, so the problem is the leading.

The rest of my .22's don't lead (except those with terrible bores). My goal is to get the leading to stop in this one. That's why I'm hoping that the lube will help.

[RACWIN375]

you should lap the bore not lube the bullets
my 10/22 don't lead the barrel and I run back to back 25 round mags all night for about 1000 rounds

I don't have a tack on my 10/22 so I don't know the RPM my 350cid will red line at 7500 RPM hehe

[357shooter]

... the intent is to shoot at 700+ RPM...

Easy to do that! Guns with a 1:16 twist run at 48,150 RPM at 1,070 FPS. Did you mean 70,000 RPM? My load spreadsheet is setup to calc the RPM for my guns & loads. However knowing it has never actually been helpful, just interesting. My loads don't approach the RPM that causes a bullet to exlode in flight.

[Hammerhead]

There's a guy on RFC who dips some of his RF ammo into liquid Alox. Just the bullets of course.

[W.R.Buchanan]

He means 700 rounds per minute.

Is this gun full auto? cuz I don't think you can pull the trigger that fast. Maybe the little crank thing? Bump fire?

700 RPM is 11.66 rounds per second.

I think your finger will get tired really fast.

Maybe a water jacket on the barrel?

Randy

[357shooter]

700 rounds per minute. wow

Not my cup of tea, sorry to barge in.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I know I'm an Ol'Coot, but what in the world do you need to shoot 700 rounds per minute for???? :Fire: :Fire: :Fire: :Fire:

Not even thinking of the $200 + dollars spent every minute for ammo.

Likely one bullet from the proper firearm will solve the problem and be waaaaaay cheaper!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[John Boy]

Dip the bullet in Liquid Rooster Jacket Lube and let it dry ...
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163345&MANF=1096

I lube my custom mold UMC Match 45gr non lubed bullets with it for my 22LR black powder reloads. The velocity of these reloads is 1030 to 1050 fps

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'll try the rooster jacket and see how it works.

As for the speed I'm shooting the ammo, I shoot enough single shot rifle to kind of even things out. ;)

[bobthenailer]

When fire lapping a 22lr barrel with a abrasive past the recomend to just put a bit on the nose of the bullet , something like a curl on a ice cream cone this may work for your lube problem but they would have to be single loaded into the chamber.

[NoZombies]

I have managed to effectively resolve my leading problem, here's what I tried, and the results:

Spray on pam:
I sprayed the rounds just before shooting loading the mags and shooting, as I wanted to avoid seepage contamination.

The gun shot fine, but still leaded after about 300 rounds. Changed barrels and moved on to the next one.

Dipped the bullets ONLY in Recluse lube:
I dipped the bullets of 400 rds in a thinned down version of recluse lube. 400rds and NO LEADING. So I left the barrel on, and tried the next one.

Rolled the bullet ONLY in JPW between fingers:
400 rds. NO LEADING.

So, I started to experiment with how many rounds needed to be lubed in each magazine to prevent leading. I started with a 1/1 ratio of non-lubed/lubed bullets, and fired 200 rds. Each progressive 200 rds. I would reduce the ratio. At 4/1 ratio (meaning 4 without additional lube and 1 with) I didn't get any leading. At a 5/1 ratio I did. To make sure it wasn't just the barrel heating up, I (after removing the leading) went back to 4/1 ratio, and fired 500 rds without leading.

The result would seem to be that by adding either recluse lube or JPW to about 1/4 of the ammo I'm shooting, I can alleviate the problems with leading.

So I would say that my experiment was successful. I don't know if anyone else needs the info, but I'm glad to know what I need to do to resolve my problems.

[Jack Stanley]

That's good to know so when I can finally get all the cash together for an American 180 I'll be good to go [smilie=l:

Jack

[crabo]

If mine was leading at this point, I would fire lap it. I use the 60 grain subsonic rounds for firelapping 22s.