deer hunting with a 32/20

[bubba15301]

does anyone here use a 32/20 for deer hunting ? if so what bullet do you use?

[9.3X62AL]

I don't use the 32/20 for deer hunting, though in its high-velocity form from a rifle it would be marginally adequate for the coast blacktails out this way. The caliber is legal for this use in CA, provided a softnose or expanding bullet is used. I would lean toward either a jacketed or cast softpoint of 115-120 grains in weight. I'm sure that a lot of deer have been harvested with this caliber, but equally sure that many have been wounded and lost due to marginal hits. Be sure of your shot placement, get as close as possible, and you'll have venison on Thanksgiving.

[Jeff Michel]

Deer certainly have been harvested with a 32-20 and even smaller calibers. in my opinion, there are much better choices. If you must, 311008 would be one with a nice sized meplat. You are limited with the type of rifle also. Big difference between a 1894CB Marlin and an original 1873 Winchester. Stick with published data, and limit your shots to "right on top of them"

[olde sarge]

Bubba, Though I am sure deer have been shot with a .32-20 many times I will give you a first hand experience account. When I was ten years old my grandfather took me hunting in central Vermont where we lived and had me carry the old Marlin that was my grandmother's rifle. We sat in cover to eat lunch in a small apple orchard where we could see probably 75 yards. As we ate we could hear something slowly moving twards the apple trees. Eventually a deer stepped out in our sight and I could see it was a spike buck so I said"gramp it's a buck". His answer was "I don't know is it"? Finally he could see the 4" spikes and told me to shoot it. I forgot the practiced tension on the trigger so it would not click as I cocked the hammer in the excitement. The deer spooked and started running away from us. The old man gragged me by the seat of the pants and lifted me to a standing position and said "shoot now". When I sighted and fired the deer dropped like it had been poleaxed. I was shaking and the old man was so excited he talked out loud which he never did in the woods. We got to the deer and could see no sign of a wound and the deer was still breathing so he said to shoot it again at the lock of the jaw so I did. We got to looking for the first shot and finally found the bullet bedded at the base of the horn and not a drop of blood. The hunting gods had been looking out for me that day. Because of the poor penetration of that bullet I say it is not a deer caliber and should not be used any more than a .22 rimfire. Your opinion may differ and that's what makes the world go round. John

[JeffinNZ]

I would happily use mine on small deer the likes of fallows. Not on our reds however. I got in on the NOE group buy of the 314008 mould. It drops the top side of 120gr in 40-1 alloy and I think this would do well on small deer given the correct shot placement and limited range.

[9.3X62AL]

That's quite an account, Olde Sarge!

The 32/20 in both standard velocity and high velocity form is a great varmint caliber. I have other calibers with greater power or larger caliber that get the call for deer hunting, though. I would risk the 32/20 on deer if it was the only rifle I had on hand, but others I do have are far better choices. Few better coyote calibers for the lever rifle have ever been birthed, AFAIC.

[onceabull]

Paco Kelly's idea of a Big game" bullet for the 32/20 rifle..Probably can still find the article in the archives on his website,but I don't remember the title.. If found I would take 8-10 % off his top load until proved OK in you rifle... Onceabull

[bubba15301]

i am shooting an 1889 marlin

[35remington]

bubba, if the gun is that old I'd definitely park it and use something else. You ought to be using only fairly mild loads in it, and mild loads are not what the deer need to kill them quickly.

[bubba15301]

i am loading 8 grainsof 2400 anda 95 grain bullet

[35remington]

Then you ought to pass on using it.

[btroj]

I have a Marlin 32-20 and I have considered using it for deer. I just haven't found a load I find acceptable. Yet.

I want a 120 gr or so GC bullet wi a flat nose in the 1700 fps range or so. Need to make sure I hunt in a place where a 25 yard or so shot is likely and tracking is easy.

[bubba15301]

Then you ought to pass on using it.why should i pass deer arent bullet proof

[Jeffrey]

why should i pass deer arent bullet proof

Because you do not want to track your deer hundreds of yards on a blood trail that gets heavy when it lays down then ends at a road. It is irresponsible to the deer and to the rest of the hunters that would harvest the deer with an adequate calibre and have full use of the deer's meat, hide, etc. Trust me. You do not want to remember your first deer shot wondering if it lived or died but knowing you did not recover it. Been there, done that, NEVER AGAIN. As a wise man once said "Use enough gun."

[dk17hmr]

I have used a bolt action 32-20 for rabbits and squirrels, my dad wouldnt let me use it for deer since I had a 25-06 and 308. I would consider HUNTING deer with a 32-20, get in close like you were bow hunting and punch one through the lungs. I would probably use either a cast hollow point or a WFN.

The quickest way to see if something will work is to tell someone it wont or cant.

[bubba15301]

going to the gunshow next weekend to see if i can find some 115's

[1Shirt]

Ya know, it is very interesting today to see the meantality of some who just have to have a 300 Winny or better for deer. They have that Weatherby meantality, which quite frankly disgusts me!!!! They are the ones at the range who walk up to you and tell you that you shouldn't shoot cast. That cast will ruin your rifle!
That a 30-30 is not adequate for deer, and for sure anything less than is inhumane. And then they shoot three to 5 rounds, into a 6-8" group (maybe), and then they are ready for deer season. I would rather see someone who is really a hunter take a deer with a 32-20, than to see some nimrod with a 300Winny(who is scared to death of it), gut shoot and loose a deer. If all I had was a 32-20, and it was deer season, would not hesitate to use it within range, probably not over 25 yds. Not that I have an opinion!
1Shirt!

[bubba15301]

i have used a .22 sav hipower for over 20 years . i guessthat istoo small also. it shoots a 70 grain bullet at 2850 fps. never saw the need for a magnun rifle for deer sized animals - destroys too much of the eating parts

[bronte454]

I've got a contender 10" 32-20 that I've loaded hot 14 grns H110 and 110 grn gas check boolit that is close to 1700 FPS. I would put that on our small TX whitetail . I would not want to use much less of a load . I have never tried it but that load has turned some tx rabbits into red mist an fluff batting with soft nose boolit . Considered taking a deer with it but have always opted for more diameter or power. 7x30 , 41maggie , 44 mag , 45 colt , 454 , 308 , 30- 06 , deadest deer I ever shot though was with a 357 contender 125 grn PMC softpoint when I was 16 when the recoil came down I asked the kid with me where the deer was an he said its still there . 75 yrds frontal shot bang flop and found the bullet under the hide of the left hip .

[35remington]

bubba, I'd rather see you run a 110 at near 2000 fps for deer rather than the 1400-1500 fps you're getting with your load. Maybe deer aren't bullet proof, but I'd rather tear a larger hole to drop them closer to where they were hit.

Your load won't make much of a hole. If you're going minimum, don't make it minimum minimum.

Make sure the 32-20 is allowed in your state for deer hunting. Some states have energy requirements. Nebraska, for example, says 900 ft/lbs. at 100 yards to be legal. A 32-20 will barely get that at the muzzle with hot loads, and has no chance at 100 yards to meet the requirement.

I can't see how a load that produces 450 ft/lbs. with a relatively small diameter bullet is all that adequate. I'd rather double that if I was hunting with a 32-20, and get a chance to make a bigger wound with an expanding bullet. An ancient Marlin doesn't seem to be a prime candidate for hotrod 32-20's, and the loads you are shooting are pretty meek.

[bubba15301]

no energy requirements in Pa. any centerfire is legal for big game

[quilbilly]

I did terminal ballistics tests on my 10" Contender in the 32-20 caliber just to see what its and the boolit's (113 gr lee RNFP-GC) performance would be at 40 yards and an MV of 1400 fps. The boolits got 16 inches of penetration and perfect expansion in soaked phone books with an 1/8 inch of plywood veneer inserted 3" in. With the Speer 120 gr jacketed hollow point I got 9" of penetration using the same load. From that I concluded that the 32-20 is adequate for deer with a live weight up to 120# out to about 75 yards with proper shot placement. Since I hunt deer purely with my muzzleloader, this was an academic exercise but very enlightening.

[btroj]

Penetration alone isn't going to do the job. You need velocity to increase wound size. You need a flat nose or expansion to create a large wound also.

Honk of the difference between shooting a deer with a broad head or a target point? Both may pass thru but which will kill cleaner?

Like 35 Remington said, if you are going to use a minimum cartridge then make sure you maximize the load.

[1Shirt]

Yep, agree on the minimize and maximize! Just common sense!
1Shirt!

[9.3X62AL]

I'm in full agreement with 1Shirt's post concerning the Magnumizing of the deer woods. At risk of carrying this discussion far afield from the OP's question, I would submit that the 30-30 WCF might be the most efficient venison harvesting caliber ever birthed. I hunt in varied country in CA, but to this day EVERY deer I've ever taken could have been felled with a 30-30. The caliber combines light recoil, flat enough trajectory for 90% of game shots, sufficient accuracy for its ranging capability, and an uncanny match of its impact velocity to the simple and affordable cup-and-core jacketed bullets most often loaded in this caliber.

[19112TAP]

I use a Marlin 1894CL with 311008 & 31133HP at 1700 fps and have not had a problem with at least a dozen does by now, I just keep my shoots in the vitals at or under 50 yds. Most don't leave blood trails that a blind man could follow but all have not went very far and I had acouple drop at the shots with neck shots really close.

[JeffinNZ]

Oh, I was leant a 31133HP and cast a heap of boolits. They are brutal on small game at that velocity. Mine are in WW so probably a bit brittle for big animals.

[helice]

I can't help but ask why? Why would you want to use a gun that so many consider marginal at best. Deer aren't big & tough skinned but why use something that may or may not do the job? Why not use a 30-30? or a 32/40 or a 32 Special or a 38/55? Those were the deer rifles of the late 1800s and the early 1900s. Pardon my ignorance - but it just don't make sense to me. Why take that chance?

[bubba15301]

I can't help but ask why? Why would you want to use a gun that so many consider marginal at best. Deer aren't big & tough skinned but why use something that may or may not do the job? Why not use a 30-30? or a 32/40 or a 32 Special or a 38/55? Those were the deer rifles of the late 1800s and the early 1900s. Pardon my ignorance - but it just don't make sense to me. Why take that chance?

because i dont have those calibers

[JeffinNZ]

Because not all deer are equal. Big difference between a roe deer and an elk.

[9.3X62AL]

because i dont have those calibers

There ya go. Run what ya brung.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I have a Marlin CL, I shot the RCBS 115gr SWC w/GC sized .313 over 10gr of 2400. I get 1.75" groups at 150 yards. I keep my shots to 100 yds on slow moving or stopped animals. The .32-20 leaves them dead as door nails. I wouldn't use it on elk but I'll kill Michigan whitetails all day long with it. The rifle is a joy to carry, recoil is nill and it works!

[smoked turkey]

bubba15301 I appreciate your determination and grit. If confidence in your equipment to do the job has any bearing, you just might be able to pull it off. From the posts I've read so far on this thread, I think we all agree that the .32-20 is capable of doing the job and now the rest is up to you. Whether its a 30-30, 30-06, or a .32-20, shot placement is the key. Ofcourse boolit energy is also important so keep those shots fairly short and I have no doubt you'll be eating vension after season is over. We want to see pictures when the time comes.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Here in the Land of Lincoln a center fire rifle is not yet legal for deer. But if it was having used a 32-20 for many years to pop ground hogs and other critters of that size I think I would use a 32-20 on a deer if that was what I had at the time and knew for sure I could place it through the ear or into the neck / spine area.
My old Savage Sporter 32-20 is more than accurate for that shot at the river bottom ranges I hunt and plenty zippy with 125 GC grainers. Only real question for me would be whether said target was absolutely still and not going to move at the shot ?
I happily am not dependent only on a 32-20 for whopping larger than ground hog sized critters. But that really means nothing here in the state of ILL that so lovingly looks out for us residents with such restrictive care.
Mike in ILL

[cuzinbruce]

Look how many whitetails are killed with bow and arrow. I would think that a 32/20 is a better killer than an arrow. Maybe I should take my S&W 1905 hunting this fall. Sure would beat lugging around a Model 70 Winchester.

[horsesoldier]

An arrow is a little bit different than a 32/20.I have driven an arrow through both shoulders of a large cow. 1 3/8 inch cutting diameter and they bleed out fast.You just have to have an arrow that is matched to your bow just like a proper bullet in a rifle

[PS Paul]

Bowfin, it sounds as if your State's fish and wildlife folks actually made a good decision based on logic and reason. Out here in WA, they (WDFW) are notorious for bad wildlife management decisions- all the time.

[bowfin]

Paul,

I have been greatly pleased with some of the decisions made by our Game & Parks Commission over the last few years. They have sat down and asked, "What will get more people out fishing and hunting? What do they need?"

A good example: For me, finding a time to go hunting actually kept me from purchasing fall turkey permits. Now, the Game & Parks run the season from September 15th to January 31st!!! A guy out hunting anything should buy a permit and put it in his back pocket because he'll eventually get a chance at a turkey.

[bubba15301]

going to the gunshow next weekend to see if i can find some 115 grain cast bullets.

[JeffinNZ]

going to the gunshow next weekend to see if i can find some 115 grain cast bullets.

Just be careful. Anything you find at a gun show has the potential to be hard cast and will not do what you want. IMHO you require a boolit that will mark very easily with your thumb nail. I would merrily send you some suitable boolits but from the bottom of the world it is likely costly for postage. Maybe a US caster can help out.

[PS Paul]

Well, I am rootin' for the underdog on this one and am really lookin' forward to hearin' tales of how the hunt went with the venerable .32-20!!

Agree or disagree, fighting for Bubba's right to do it and put his skill to the test sure seems to be the position I want to be in regarding Bubba's choices!
Paul

[quilbilly]

One of the outcomes of my admittedly academic exercise testing the terminal ballistics of the 32-20 with a 113 gr +gas check rnfp at 1400 fps was a comparison with the 45 patched round ball muzzleloader my wife and i have killed over 20 deer with in the last 25 years. The 32-20 boolit is comparable to the 45 round ball in weight and the 32-20 boolit expanded to greater than .45. Velocities are similar as well with the 32-20 boolit having the advantage beyond 50 yards. Admittedly all the shots we took were carefully placed plus less than 100 yards with the 45 PRB and none of the deer went farther than 30 yards before expiring. In a couple weeks I will be out there with my trusty T/C 45 cal Seneca again shooting round ball.

[NSP64]

bubba15301, have you slugged the barrel to get a true measurement?

[bubba15301]

Just be careful. Anything you find at a gun show has the potential to be hard cast and will not do what you want. IMHO you require a boolit that will mark very easily with your thumb nail. I would merrily send you some suitable boolits but from the bottom of the world it is likely costly for postage. Maybe a US caster can help out.

i am shooting hardcast bullets now sized to .313

[runfiverun]

the soft alloy is good advice.
out to about 75 yds or so the 32-20 will kill a deer.
i done it with a 30 carbine revolver and a 98 gr boolit. [using trimmed 32-20 brass and the rcbs 98 gr 313 sized boolit]
the deer was bout 150 live weight,
and 75 yds away 4 steps and face plant.
broadside shot,the wound chanell wasn't huge,but it did give full penetration through both lungs just over the top of the heart.
internal damage was about the size of a quarter through the soft tissue and just over that on exit.

[bubba15301]

bubba15301, have you slugged the barrel to get a true measurement? i am loading.313 bullets now with 8 grains of 2400 and a 95 grain bullet . shot into 2 inches at 50 yds . with factory winchester ammo i got a couple of keyholes .factory ammo was .310 bullets

[singleshot]

My experience matches quilbilly. I've tested 327 federals at 1400 and 93 grain boolits. From everything I've seen, it will kill a deer with a double-lung shot.

[Bullshop]

Just be careful. Anything you find at a gun show has the potential to be hard cast and will not do what you want. IMHO you require a boolit that will mark very easily with your thumb nail. I would merrily send you some suitable boolits but from the bottom of the world it is likely costly for postage. Maybe a US caster can help out.

Do I hear an opertunity calling?

[9.3X62AL]

Bullshop, it sure is good to see your posts gracing these pages again.

[bowhunter]

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/olskool1/IMG_3240.jpgi know there is a lot of people here have real world hunting exp. but, it always amazes me to here people tell me how small calibers won't kill deer. here where i live in SC we can hunt with almost anything, our deer season is kind of long on private land. aug.15- jan.1 no limit on bucks and no tags, so we get a lot of time to try different cal. i am 55 and have been hunting all my life here, my dad and his friends all hunted with what they had. i have saw him kill more deer than i could ever remember with a gun that all the experts say was not humane and just could not do the job. a 22 hornet, he did not lose deer either, all through the 70's i used a 223 and a 22-250 most when shot with either will drop on the spot. bullet placement is the key. a deer shot in the vitals will no go far. i would have no problem useing a 32-20 at the correct distance. i will guarante a cast bullet will not bounce off but will most likley go slam through. please let us know how it does.

yesterday i was shooting my 30rem. in my model 14 carbine with a 170 lyman getting it ready to use on some deer. man i hope is powerful enough! :smile:

[LIMPINGJ]

bowhunter I would think the deer would be lining up to get to be shot with such a great looking classic.

[bowhunter]

thank you for your kind words sir.

[richhodg66]

Wife's grandfather used to hunt deer in S.C. with an M1 Carbine. I still have the rack from one he killed in his last few years when she and I started dating, huge deer. I always cringed when he talked about using so light a gun, but he carried one in WWII and liked it. That was in heavy woods with a very long deer season, so it may not be comparable to your situation.

Though I don't think it was legal, I knew a lot of people who killed deer with .22s while growing up. I know bowhunters now who will get a deer or two a year and routinely get in spitting distance of them, I do too during our muzzle loader season. You could do it, but make sure you have the patience and self restraint to not take a shot that is anything less than perfect.

[bowhunter]

a deer shot with a 22 hornet through the lungs looks like a bomb went off inside. three or four jumps and they are done. if you look at one shot the same way with a 243 you can't tell the differents from a hornet. of course the hornet has a lot less range. po ackley killed goats, deer, and even black bear with a 17 ackley mag. it was a 222 mag. necked down to 17 cal. useing a 20-25 gr. bullet. common sense and shot placement is the key. bad shot placement with any so called deer caliber will lose you a deer most of the time.

[35remington]

The OP is suggesting using a 95 grain nonexpanding bullet at about 1400 fps. A good deer caliber it is not, with those ballistics. Wound channels are small.

Just pointing out the context. We're "minimum minimum." It's not surprising that many are advising against it.

[btroj]

It comes down to having a decent sized wound. A 22 hornet into the Lu's is going to makes a mess. A low velocity, non expanding 32-20 bullet won't create near as large a wound.

A 32-20 needs speed to be a more reliable killer. Think of what a hornet might do at 1400 instead of 2200.

Velocity does matter

[Bullshop]

Thanks Al. Good to see you still touting your affection ( and mine) for the 32s.
Here is an interesting tidbit to ponder. I read somewhere of a servey done as I recall in 1950 in Wasington state questioning elk hunters on what cartridge they were using.
There was a smattering of 30/40s 30/30s and 32 spl and even a 30/06 or two but the most used cartridge revealed by this servey was of all things a 32/20. Go figure!

Also I would like to mention two instances in which I have head shot deer only to knock them unconcious and not killing them. One was shot with a 38 spl wc at about 20 feet broad side bwtween the eye and ear hole. The other was shot with a 6mm Rem shooting the 60gn Sierra HP and the range was 300 yards and hit in the same place.
In both instances both deer regained thier feet very slowly and wobbely and seemingly would have recovered enough to get away if allowed to.
In the case of the 6mm there was a crator in the flesh the size of a quarter but it did not crack the coconut. The soft 38 wc just flattened on the skull with little visable damage other than a 38 hole.
I wont take sides but will say that I have taken plenty of deer with lesser cartridges than the 32/20 in the past but in the future will use greater because I have better things to use. However I must add that if all I had was the 32/20 I most certanly would not be going without meat. I would dare even to say the same about the 25/20.

[357maximum]

I find it hilarious how them there deer got so tough since the invention of the 30/06. I really find it funny how deer have evolved into kevlar coated indestructable mythical beings since belted mags showed up in the glossy gun rags. I know in my hands a 32/20 would put venison on the table just as regularly as any other caliber I own.

[btroj]

In the hands of the right hunter the 32-20 is fine. Need a patient hunter who will get close and wait for the right sof.

The deer aren't tougher since the invention of the 30-06, the hunters just aren't as willing to wait and get close. We stopped being hunters and became a nation of deer shooters.

To me hunting wi a 32-20 isn't much different from using an open sight handgun or a bow. Be patient, know the area, and wait for the right shot.

[bubba15301]

It comes down to having a decent sized wound. A 22 hornet into the Lu's is going to makes a mess. A low velocity, non expanding 32-20 bullet won't create near as large a wound.

A 32-20 needs speed to be a more reliable killer. Think of what a hornet might do at 1400 instead of 2200.

Velocity does matter what caliber do you use?

[btroj]

It varies year to year. Last deer I shot was a 350 cast p froma 45-70 at 1600. Before that I used a 45-70 with a 425 at 1700, same rifle with a 350 at 1700. I also used a 30-30 with a 311165 RD by NOE at 2000. I used a 45 Colt Marlin with a 265 at 1500.

I have a Marlin 357 I would like to use but this ear I decided my primary rifle will by a new to me CZ 500 in 375 H &H with a cast 265 grainer somewhere between 1600 and 2100, haven't settled on exact load yet.

My personal preference is a decent sized flat nosed bullet in the 1500 to 2000 fps range. I like to hit en hard.

Longes shot I have taken on any of the deer I listed was 80 yards, closest was around 15 yards.

If I could find a good 1700 fps load with a flat nosed cat 120 gr or so bu

ER for my Marlin 32-20 I would give it a go. I generally get short range shots and can place the bullet where it needs to be.

Biggest issue each year is deciding what gun gets to go hunting. May need to use the SRH in 44 mag again soon.

[35remington]

There is nobody, and I mean nobody, who is a greater fan of the cartridges like the 25-20 and 32-20 than I am. I have a thread going on marlinowners that is, essentially, a homage to the 25-20, which is one of the most under rated and useful small game and varmint cartridges ever in my opinion. I shoot a great many of these every year.

It is the cartridge everyone needs, I think, that does any amount regular shooting. I've got a lot of experience in what cartridges of this class will do.

However, I have to point out that ballistics like those mentioned as being considered for deer hunting (95 grains at 1400 fps or so) are what we call "meat savers." While they kill small game and up to reasonably sized critters well (woodchucks, raccoons, etc.) this is because the wound channel is decently sized given the small size of the vital organs of the target. Even at that it isn't all that large, and certainly doesn't carry much excess.

It is often stated you can "eat up to the hole" when eating game shot with such loads and you can. I have shot many small edible critters with such ballistics.......and I like these ballistics a lot, for small edible critters and pelt saving loads for the medium varmints. They are much better than a .22 long rifle.

But I am also very conscious of the fact that not a lot of tissue is damaged, either edible or vital, compared to something with more speed. When tissue damage not sufficient, the critter shot runs a longer way because the hole in the vitals is small enough that bleed out is not fast.

Being more than a little aware of the relative damage these sort of rounds produce, if I was inclined to use them, I would run them at the range where the wound channels get larger.

1400 fps isn't it. I'd rather have near 2000 plus with a small lead or jacketed bullet approximating 95 grains. Energy requirements for deer hunting cartridges cannot, in my opinion, be regarded as useless and irrelevant, because they are not. Nebraska's, for example, can be viewed as reasonably sensible in light of the type that are commonly used.

Suggesting 450 ft lbs with a small diameter, likely nonexpanding bullet isn't the greatest deer ballistics doesn't make me a "bulletproof deer magnum bigger is better guy" because it hardly takes a big rifle to better these ballistics. Just a reasonably adequate one.

I'm not asking for all that much. Just more than "eat up to the hole" ballistics.

[35remington]

I stand corrected. I looked up my load notes for the 32-20 and 8 grains 2400 in a 92 Winchester produced 1220 fps with the RCBS 90 grain Cowboy bullet. Not the 1400 fps I thought I remembered.

I would very strongly urge the OP to reconsider using this on deer since his stated load is with 8 grains 2400 and a 95 grain bullet.....even more vehemently than I did before. It is not a good idea.

It's a .30 caliber 22 long rifle.....and that's about it. Lung shooting deer is not its forte, and that's vastly understating things.

On edit: Assuming his rifle gets the same velocity with his 95 grain bullet, this is 315 ft/lbs. which is short of many .22 magnum loads, and about equal to a .38 special pistol witih +P loads. Not good. This meets nobody's minimums.

[Bullshop]

I remember a time when I was treasure hunting with a metal detector at a site that had been logged for mine timber financed by the old ivory poacher Marcus Dailey.
It was at the top of the divide climbing up to the Big Hole out of Anaconda at a historic sight called The Mule ranch.
As I was following the remnance of the dual narrow gauge rail tracks that brought the timber down the mountain I came upon a natural mineral lick in a large opening in the timber. I couldnt help thinking WOW! what a great place to hunt elk. After about another 25 yards of walking into the clearing sure enough I jumped several elk that had been beded around a little peninsula of timber from where I had entered the clearing.
Now here is the very interesting and amusing part. On one end of the clearing my detector picked up an object that turned out to be a spent 44/40 casing. From headstamp and interior condition I assumed it had been a black powder round. Now the frosting! Across the clearing at possibly 75 yards away I found a spent 44/40 boolit. Since it is hollow base I assume it also was from a black powder round. So if you put 2 and 2 together what do you get?
BTW At the very top of the mountain I found some real treasure. At the site of what remained of a cabin at the upper end of the tracks as at a few other cabin sites along the rail line the most comon sight was broken whisky flasks. Not unusual knowing loggers. But two items found that are interesting are one a gold cuflink dated 1884 and a solid copper pendent that says, Anaconda the capital of Montana.
Now history reveals that Anaconda was never the capital of Mt. but it also reveals that old Marcus Dailey known as the copper king having his base of operations in Anaconda campaigned hard to have the capital moved there. A real treasure indeed! Maybe so in actual cash value but as I hold the old 44/40 components in hand and let my mind wander I derive far more pleasure from them than any cash value could compair.
BS

[clintsfolly]

bubba your best bet is to post in the Want to Buy Here. Clint

[PS Paul]

That's a great little story there, Bullshop. Makes me feel like I was almost there....

[Bullshop]

I am just getting set up to start casting again and could run some 32s of about any hardness desired.

I have to wounder if that old 44/40 slug went through an elk.

[Plinkster]

Also coulda gone through the guy who accidentally broke the last whiskey keg, knowing loggers lol.

[bubba15301]

would 14 grains of 1680 and a 95 grain bullet be a better load?

[runfiverun]

that would be up to your gun to decide.
but it would pack a bit more velocity.
no matter which way you go you will still have a limited range rifle, just work with that limitation and keep the shot in the vital area.

[Bluehawk]

Several things come into play here. First I also hunt PA. I have killed ONE deer with an 1889 Marlin also . BUT it was in 38/40 NOT 32/ 20 I also have ( well sorry just sold ) a WIin . 92 in 32/ 20 so did a lot of testing on that for deer . I WOULD NOT use the 32/20 for deer MY SELF !. I just think it is too marginal ESPECIALLY in a very old gun like the 1889. You just cant get enough "UMPF" out of that old gun NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITION . MY 1889 IS in TREMENDOUS shape But it was made in 1893 ( by serial number) and even though it is marked SAFETY STEEL I don't trust the steel from back then to be as good as today. The doe I shot with the 38/40 was hit PERFECTLY at 20 yards and still managed to go over a mile before dying I jumped her three times but could not get another shot any time . That was with a factory 180 Win. bullet pulled and reloaded to about 150 fps faster than factory loads .
MY 32/20 was left for Turkey hunting in the fall and ground hogs in the spring Until I picked up a 25/20 Marlin 1894 CL and replaced that 32/20 for those purposes .
If I was limited to the 32/20 I'd use the heaviest bullet I could get , and concentrate on shooting the deer at no more than 35 yards with a perfect broad side shot and keep cranking that lever and hitting it as many times as I could before it got out of site .
I ALSO KNOW that many deer have been killed wit the 32/20 so its not impossible but it is certainly not the preferred weapon .

[9.3X62AL]

Bubba, my thoughts on the matter are to use a 115-120 grain boolit (Lymans #311316 or #311008 come to mind here) cast as a soft-point. I would be reluctant to push such a boolit much faster than 1873-level ballistics in that fine old rifle, that being ~1300 FPS.

[bubba15301]

the place i have in mindto hunt 50 yds would be the farthest shot

[bubba15301]

how about a case full of triple 7 and a 95 or 115 grain bullet
'?

[leftiye]

I would load an xtp jhp to the nuts and have done with it. Lung shot city.

[Junior1942]

The OP is suggesting using a 95 grain nonexpanding bullet at about 1400 fps. A good deer caliber it is not, with those ballistics. Wound channels are small.

Just pointing out the context. We're "minimum minimum." It's not surprising that many are advising against it.Back in the days of open range here, I killed over two dozen hogs with a Lee 358-140-SWC in WW alloy @ 1400 fps from my Rossi 357 carbine. None ran more than a few feet, best I can remember. None lived more than a few seconds after bullet impact, I remember clearly.

[Junior1942]

An added thought: if you were to ask the average hunter here in north Louisiana to name the minimum cartridge for deer hunting they'd answer 30-06 or 270. However, some would answer 300 mag. One I know would answer anything 7mm but with "ultra" or "super" in its name. Arguments/comments like those here are what cause laws to be passed. So let the OP deer hunt with his 32-20 and hope he has the skills to do it. Otherwise, people who have never seen a wild deer except on the side of the road will introduce laws saying a 308 Win is the minimum cartridge allowable for deer hunting.

[kir_kenix]

My grandfather did alot of hunting with the 25-20 Winchester and .22 Hornet back in the day. This included deer and blackbear in the lower 48, and a variety of game in Alaska. Now, I'm not saying that I would want to tangle with a big Alaskan Bruin with a 25-20, but people used what they had back in those days. He never complained about the killing power of either of these "varmint" rounds.

I think that a well placed shot from your 32-20 is more than adaquate for a short range, broadside shot on a deer. Lots of deer have been taken cleanly and responsibly with cartridges in this power range. Heck, lots of deer get shot every year with .22 lr and .30 carbines...just make sure you know your range well and place that boolit in the boiler room.

[Bullshop]

I think of the 32/20 much like the 45/70 in that loading data will treat it as more than one cartridge at differing power levels.
If you look at old data for the 32/20 you find that the data will differentiate between rifle and pistol. Rifle data being for the 92 Win and not the 73.
There was even factory ammo with the same distinction between intended launch platforms. The ammo and load data for the 92 rifle is substantially hotter than that for pistol.
I would opt for the rifle data but I dont know how your rifle compares in strength to a Win 92.

[Marlin Junky]

I am just getting set up to start casring again and could run some 32s of about any hardness desired.

I have to wounder if that old 44/40 slug went through an elk.

Or drunken miner. Or perhaps it completely missed its intended target altogether.

MJ

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Low velocity lead slugs do not create a large wound since they do not expand much, but they do penetrate a fair ways. That is why the .22 LR kills way out of proportion to its "paper" energy. Same goes for standard .45 Colt and .38 Special. And, the .45-70 "factory" loads"? How much expansion? The .32-20 has taken much big game. Placement is the key. Nothing short of a howitzer makes up for sloppy shooting. And, the disclamer: Just my personal opinion.

[Junior1942]

As Robert Johnson sang, "I got a 32-20, boys, it do very well."

[35remington]

At 1200 fps with a 95 grain bullet, it won't do all that well, really. As I mentioned, shooting tender cottontail rabbits with such a load leaves a clean, small diameter hole.

Not really what you need through a deer's lungs. If you're going to use it, speed it up substantially. The bullet is fairly skinny and needs some upset, and the wound channel needs to be that obtained from rifle type velocities rather than pistol velocities. A 30ish caliber bullet doesn't make much of a crush cavity, and there's no temporary cavity at 1200 fps.

Ask the rabbits.

[dk17hmr]

The "dwell time" between a rabbit and a deer is a little different...no?

The bullet has more time in a deer to deform and expand even tumble, not to mention the muscle and body construction is substantially different. Comparing a rabbit to a deer is like comparing a mini cooper to a tank.

Cast the bullet soft, shoot it in the lungs/heart, eat venison.

[35remington]

Not all that much. If a bullet is going to expand, it does it very near the point of impact, whether the target be rabbit or deer. This is because bullet energy and deceleration are greatest at point of impact. It's usually figured that any deformation occurs within about the bullet's length after it impacts. Traverse of tissue beyond this is at lower velocities after the quicker initial deceleration of impact.

1200 fps 32-20 bullets don't expand much or leave much of a hole. I've shot enough critters to know. Even lengthwised through cottontails, squirrels, and varmints, where there is a lot more tissue traversed.

The expansion isn't much in most alloys. The 315 ft/lbs. also doesn't impress. Most likely, a deer shot through the lungs with such a load will have a much longer death run than if the bullet was speeded up 700 ft/sec or so. The vast majority of the lung will be undamaged, and the hole won't be large.

Rib shot deer also don't have a lot of resistant tissue to traverse. And quite frankly, 1200 fps is slow for expansion, even with a soft bullet, given that impact will be at 1100 fps and less even on a close shot.

But let the OP shoot a deer through the lungs with a 1200 fps 32-20. He'll figure it out, firsthand.

I think we can all agree to that, since his state lets anyone shoot deer with anything. Maybe that's how it should be everywhere. Even given that, I bet you don't find dozens of guys in that state shooting such a load, even though it's legal.

From here on out, I'll advocate the "try it and find out" line. I've said enough. The results of this season will dictate any further use.......or not.

[bubba15301]

Not all that much. If a bullet is going to expand, it does it very near the point of impact, whether the target be rabbit or deer. This is because bullet energy and deceleration are greatest at point of impact. It's usually figured that any deformation occurs within about the bullet's length after it impacts. Traverse of tissue beyond this is at lower velocities after the quicker initial deceleration of impact.

1200 fps 32-20 bullets don't expand much or leave much of a hole. I've shot enough critters to know. Even lengthwised through cottontails, squirrels, and varmints, where there is a lot more tissue traversed.

The expansion isn't much in most alloys. The 315 ft/lbs. also doesn't impress. Most likely, a deer shot through the lungs with such a load will have a much longer death run than if the bullet was speeded up 700 ft/sec or so. The vast majority of the lung will be undamaged, and the hole won't be large.

Rib shot deer also don't have a lot of resistant tissue to traverse. And quite frankly, 1200 fps is slow for expansion, even with a soft bullet, given that impact will be at 1100 fps and less even on a close shot.

But let the OP shoot a deer through the lungs with a 1200 fps 32-20. He'll figure it out, firsthand.

I think we can all agree to that, since his state lets anyone shoot deer with anything. Maybe that's how it should be everywhere. Even given that, I bet you don't find dozens of guys in that state shooting such a load, even though it's legal.

didnt say that was the load i was going to use .going totry 14 grains of a1680 with the 95 gr and the 115 gr bullet

[35remington]

Loading manuals suggest about 1400 fps with that load. Not a huge improvement.

But you go do what you gotta do in PA. I'm just wondering why you don't have a more suitable rifle. They are not all that expensive, especially used. The money spent buying tags, gas, annual leave from work, and what not adds up by comparison. A rifle is cheap and lasts for years......a one time expenditure of 200 bucks and you're set for life.

If I recall correctly, the PA guys like traditional calibers but the new ones in bolt actions are gaining ground due to stand hunting. Lots of guys shooting the 32-20 for deer there? Maybe I'm guessing wrong when I guess that there aren't many.

[35remington]

I see earlier in the thread where you used a .22 Savage HP. I think that would work a whole lot better and you ought to stick with it.

[fordwannabe]

Hey Bubba I'm gonna let you in on a little secret..ok ready, here goes ....we have wussy deer here in Pa. The deer here do not require a
600 wizbangdeerassasinsupermagnum to die.
Hell in this part of PA some of these yokels even use a stick with a string on it launching another stick with some foo foo feather stuff on it, and they kill deer...Honest I seen it! Use that as your guide and HUNT DEER- GET CLOSE, BE DAMNED SURE OF YOUR SHOT AND SHOOT. Last year I used a 1889 marlin in 44-40 for my PA deer and had a good friend who I respect a lot most of the time ask me if it would kill a deer. I responded prolly not I'm pretty sure no one ever killed a deer until the 30-06 was invented. Then we laughed when he thought about it because in 1889 a household probably only had one rifle and it was for food gathering,defense,predator eradication and everything else all in one.
Course I am an idiot so take it for what it's worth.:bigsmyl2:

[PS Paul]

HA!! Ford, THAT is pretty darned funny about the "no one ever killed a deer before the 30 '06 was invented"!! Now I am going to use that one at work for a while! Thanks, man!!

[PS Paul]

Further, I think Bubba is probably even MORE determined to do it "his way" even more now than ever before. I understand his deer season doesn't open until after Thanksgiving, so I really hope he lets us all know how he did cuz I'm goin' to be rootin' for the man.

[fordwannabe]

Hey Bubba as a side note I want you to know I am leaving for Colorado,6 weeks fom yesterday for an elk and mulie hunt, guess what I am taking for the elk part....1886 from 1902 in 33wcf, so I do know what it is like to want to hunt with the oldies. My PA deer for the last 5 years has been with a 100+ year old lever gun from either Marlin or Winchester, each year has been a different gun and caliber so i always have a rifle I have to develope a load for each year. I really am enjoying hunting more now that there is some challenge to it, iron sights and cast boolits don't cha know!

And to 35 remy YOU ARE RIGHT THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF PA GUYS USING 32-20 OR ANY DASH CALIBERS BUT THATS THE THRILL OF IT! I am not bragging but I have two LARGE gun safes full of rifles and last week I was at a private range shooting 450 yards with a savage in 308 and shooting honest 3 inch groups so if I can see a deer inside 500 yards I can say with a certain amount of satisfaction ,see deer, line up scope, pull trigger BANG FLOP. Yes I still enjoy hunting and yes I love seeing how small a group I can shoot but as for hunting taking a 100 year old rifle out to do what it was made to do brings me a ton more ejoyment than shooting a brand new plastic stocked cnc manufactured wonder gun. BUT THATS JUST ME! And again I hunt deer IE get close ,pass up marginal shots and have patience with my load developement and KNOW THE LMITS OF THE CALIBER AND RIFLE. I am limiting myself to a 100 yard shot with that 1886 this year because that is what I feel comfortable wit and it will have to be the RIGHT 100 yard shot...plus I have a bull annd cow tag so I can get either and be perfectly happy. Tom
PS GREAT THREAD!!

[bubba15301]

Loading manuals suggest about 1400 fps with that load. Not a huge improvement.

But you go do what you gotta do in PA. I'm just wondering why you don't have a more suitable rifle. They are not all that expensive, especially used. The money spent buying tags, gas, annual leave from work, and what not adds up by comparison. A rifle is cheap and lasts for years......a one time expenditure of 200 bucks and you're set for life.

If I recall correctly, the PA guys like traditional calibers but the new ones in bolt actions are gaining ground due to stand hunting. Lots of guys shooting the 32-20 for deer there? Maybe I'm guessing wrong when I guess that there aren't many.its kinda hard to buy a new gun when you are unemployed. PA hunting license$20.70 buck tag included. don.t know what you pay for license in your state but it must be expensive.

[bubba15301]

Hey Bubba I'm gonna let you in on a little secret..ok ready, here goes ....we have wussy deer here in Pa. The deer here do not require a
600 wizbangdeerassasinsupermagnum to die.
Hell in this part of PA some of these yokels even use a stick with a string on it launching another stick with some foo foo feather stuff on it, and they kill deer...Honest I seen it! Use that as your guide and HUNT DEER- GET CLOSE, BE DAMNED SURE OF YOUR SHOT AND SHOOT. Last year I used a 1889 marlin in 44-40 for my PA deer and had a good friend who I respect a lot most of the time ask me if it would kill a deer. I responded prolly not I'm pretty sure no one ever killed a deer until the 30-06 was invented. Then we laughed when he thought about it because in 1889 a household probably only had one rifle and it was for food gathering,defense,predator eradication and everything else all in one.
Course I am an idiot so take it for what it's worth.:bigsmyl2:

my cousins used a .22 hornet because that is all they had to use.

[FergusonTO35]

I have no doubt that one of Ranch Dog's gas checked 115 grain slugs at high velocity in the hands of a real marksman (read: not me) would be an effective deer cartridge with proper shot placement. However I see no reason to do so if you have a more proven caliber available and can shoot it halfway decent.

[Bullshop]

I have read much about how the 22 hornet provided for folks during the depression.
Its was cheap, fairely quiet, and adiquate to become well known as a poachers pet.
Even though the folks that used it back then are going fast its reputation still seems to live on.
I am a huge fan of the hornet as well as the bee, and 25/20 but even though I have tried have never warmed up to the 32 as well as its smaller siblings.
Even though I am not old enough to have experianced the great depresion I have had similer use experiance with the hornet in my younger days of lawlessness.
I recall a shot of opertunity at a mid sized black bear while rabbit hunting with a 94 Marlin in 218 bee. I was shooting the light weight Lyman flat nose boolit of about 70gn and zipping it out the Marlin at somewhere about 2400 fps of I remember right.
I startled the bear at fairely close range and it lit out like a missel. My lead was less than perfect and the hit was too far back to have been called a good shot.
Luckily it was well centered in the liver and that vital organ was completely destroyed.
The bear made it through a small clrearing and the dissapeared into the timber.
I quickley followed into the timber and at maybe 30 to 40 yards distant could see a very sick bear still on its feet but not too motivated to run.
A second shot to the side of the head and just above the ear completely took off the top of the skull. Nope the 25/20 is not an every day bear gun but it sure was that day.
Nope this has nothing to do with the subject at hand but I enjoyed telling it just the same.

[Bluehawk]

I have shot several deer with Buck shot and my concern in using the 32/20 is that the hole( HOLES????????) would be small enough and react like the holes made in buck shot at almost the same velocity . THEY hardly ever leak !!! I have made MANY good hits on deer at close range with buck shot and had more tracking problems due to lack of blood trail with those hits than any other type projectile. I'M equating the two, I know, and not actually the same , but similar enough in size and velocity to warrant my concern
In the early 70s I was hunting a guys farm in SE PA. when that area was still a rifle use area. The guys farm we hunted used ONLY a 22 Hornet for deer for probably 30 or more years with NEVER losing a deer , till this once . SO i remember him proudly showing my brother-in-law and my self his new SUPER DOOPER MAGNUM deer rifle he bought to replace the 22 Hornet . Turned out to be a M788 Remington in 243 WIn . He was AWFUL afraid that the HUGE 75 grain bullets would be WAY TOO MUCH from what he was used to .
I'M SURE the 32/20 will KILL a deer but ESPECIALLY in PA , where if, a deer in rifle season runs more than 100yards he is liable to run into another hunter and you have lost your deer.

[runfiverun]

our hunting licenses are cheaper than our fishing lcenses the tags add up though.
our deer seasons are a bit skewed however.
bow hunt starts first and you use the same tag for the any weapon season,we no longer have a muzzle loader deer season.[they done away with it the year i bought my b/p rifle]
so if you want to hang from a tree and use a pocket knife during the any weapon season go for it.

[19112TAP]

I to have used a 22 Hornet for may years when I was in college and first married because it was all I had and it was legal being a centerfire and took many whitetail with it and I had a couple get away when I rushed the shot. Last year I was hunting with a model 71 .348 using 200 gr jacketed bullets and took a shot on a nice big body buck around 100 yds walking, I found blood pieces of bone but no buck. It goes to show you taht you can have good luck and bad luck.

[Bullshop]

19112tap

I have several boolit designs for the 348. If you find yourself needing some give a holler.

[35remington]

ford, the 32-20 loads contemplated here are a lot less than what your 44-40 puts out in both bullet weight and diameter.

In fact, they're a lot less than what has been mentioned as being used successfully on this thread. Everyone else mentions much higher velocities or bigger bullets, even when they were using their own "minimums."

The mentioned loads, if they are used, would set a new "low."

Yes, Nebraska deer tags cost more than Pennsylvania deer tags, a big part of which is that we probably don't have even 1/10th as many deer hunters. Not a lot of people live here, and several cities in PA have more people than are in our whole state.

FWIW.....if you believe in "bang flops" you haven't shot many deer. Nearly all will run some distance with a shot through the lungs. Even if your .270 completely removed the lungs on a 30 yard shot. Bang flops are the exception not the rule.

My comments have to do with minimal energy making such a small hole through said lungs that it takes the deer a long time, and a great distance, to bleed out. The lower the energy gets, the more likely it is to happen. Some other guy will put his tag on your deer if it runs off the property.

[fordwannabe]

First let me say I respect all the opinions that are flowing back and forth....AND I AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOU SAY 35 REMY(by the by I love the 35 remington caliber). I would not use the 32-20 as a first choice anytime that you had a better option! I shot a poor old doe 6 years ago with a 405 grain 45-70 load at 12 feet in the neck(AND SURE AS POOP IT WAS BANG FLOP), but that is the exception. I was exaggerating a bit with the bang flop but, I have not chased a deer more than 35 yards in the last ten years ....WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE YEAR ONE OF THE OTHER HUNTERS CAME RUNNING AT MY SHOT AND THE DOE THAT HAD BEDDED DOWN TO BLEED OUT GOT SPOOKED AND WE HAD TO CHASE HER FOR 100 YARDS OR SO, and that was a 30-30 at about 20-25 yards. I have hunted many places and grew up in Montana where the deer are a hardier breed just from staying alive through the winter.
The deer here are smallish and not as hardy.
Back to the subject , if I had a pocket full of 100's to spend would I PICK a 32-20 as a deer gun NO!!!! but would I feel grossly undergunned for PA whitetail with one IF I PICK MY SHOTS AND KNOW WHAT THE GUN CAN AND CAN'T DO AND IT'S ALL I HAD....NO again. I also think the hunting styles we are talking about may be different most of the shots at my camp are WAY under 50 yards cause we can't see throught the trees much farther than that! AND BEFORE ANYBODY GOES THERE..NO SUCH CRITTER AS A BRUSH BUSTER CAUSE THAT BULLET IS GOING SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN WHERE YOU AIMED!!!
I do think PA deer anbd Nebraska bruisers are a little different in what they take to kill them, but again THATS ME. I have seen deer shot with 22 long rifles that did bang flop(normally head shots and I did not say I was happy to see such things) and I have seen deer shot with 7mm mags run like they have not been touched, so we can't say for sure what it takes to take down a specific deer. I will however stand by my statements all the while listening to and appreciating your point of view.
Also caps are for emphasis not anger, yelling or Ramboism

[Suo Gan]

There is nobody, and I mean nobody, who is a greater fan of the cartridges like the 25-20 and 32-20 than I am. I have a thread going on marlinowners that is, essentially, a homage to the 25-20, which is one of the most under rated and useful small game and varmint cartridges ever in my opinion. I shoot a great many of these every year.

It is the cartridge everyone needs, I think, that does any amount regular shooting. I've got a lot of experience in what cartridges of this class will do.

However, I have to point out that ballistics like those mentioned as being considered for deer hunting (95 grains at 1400 fps or so) are what we call "meat savers." While they kill small game and up to reasonably sized critters well (woodchucks, raccoons, etc.) this is because the wound channel is decently sized given the small size of the vital organs of the target. Even at that it isn't all that large, and certainly doesn't carry much excess.

It is often stated you can "eat up to the hole" when eating game shot with such loads and you can. I have shot many small edible critters with such ballistics.......and I like these ballistics a lot, for small edible critters and pelt saving loads for the medium varmints. They are much better than a .22 long rifle.

But I am also very conscious of the fact that not a lot of tissue is damaged, either edible or vital, compared to something with more speed. When tissue damage not sufficient, the critter shot runs a longer way because the hole in the vitals is small enough that bleed out is not fast.

Being more than a little aware of the relative damage these sort of rounds produce, if I was inclined to use them, I would run them at the range where the wound channels get larger.

1400 fps isn't it. I'd rather have near 2000 plus with a small lead or jacketed bullet approximating 95 grains. Energy requirements for deer hunting cartridges cannot, in my opinion, be regarded as useless and irrelevant, because they are not. Nebraska's, for example, can be viewed as reasonably sensible in light of the type that are commonly used.

Suggesting 450 ft lbs with a small diameter, likely nonexpanding bullet isn't the greatest deer ballistics doesn't make me a "bulletproof deer magnum bigger is better guy" because it hardly takes a big rifle to better these ballistics. Just a reasonably adequate one.

I'm not asking for all that much. Just more than "eat up to the hole" ballistics.

That was a great post on the subject it really was.

[bubba15301]

got some cast 77 grain .32acp bullets , i could get some velocity out of those bullets.:Fire[smilie=l:

[runfiverun]

the flat nose and extra weight will be more in your favor.
you really need to make two holes.
nevermind the energy dump junk.

[bubba15301]

the flat nose and extra weight will be more in your favor.
you really need to make two holes.
nevermind the energy dump junk. i posted that tongue in cheek

[45 2.1]

FWIW.....if you believe in "bang flops" you haven't shot many deer. Nearly all will run some distance with a shot through the lungs. Even if your .270 completely removed the lungs on a 30 yard shot. Bang flops are the exception not the rule.

My comments have to do with minimal energy making such a small hole through said lungs that it takes the deer a long time, and a great distance, to bleed out. The lower the energy gets, the more likely it is to happen. Some other guy will put his tag on your deer if it runs off the property.

Most problems arise from the nut behind the butt through where he shoots the animal and what he chooses to put in his firearm. Bangflops usually do not occur with flat nose boolits, but they do occur with hollow points of a certain configuration when shot into an animal very near the heart. Some people have never seen a bangflop and do not believe in them, but once you know what it takes, it becomes much easier.... even with handguns....... rifles are a gimme......................

[bubba15301]

what if i hollowpoint the 95 grainers?

[crabo]

what if i hollowpoint the 95 grainers?

They become lighter....

[bubba15301]

i think i will take it bear hunting this year

[rbuck351]

By all means. Come on up to Ak. We have plenty of little coastal brownies that need to turned into rugs. That 32/20 with some 90gr soft lead boolits should be just the ticket.:holysheep

[bubba15301]

QUOTE=bubba15301;1855547]i think i will take it bear hunting this year[/QUOTE]:smile::smile::smile::lovebooli

[bubba15301]

By all means. Come on up to Ak. We have plenty of little coastal brownies that need to turned into rugs. That 32/20 with some 90gr soft lead boolits should be just the ticket.:holysheep

when does the season start?

[45 2.1]

what if i hollowpoint the 95 grainers?

This goes back to part of my original statement :"Most problems arise from the nut behind the butt through where he shoots the animal and what he chooses to put in his firearm." One should know enough to use something appropriate to get the job done. That is for the person doing the job to decide. Then, if he decided wrongly, it's his body that gets vented on.

[9.3X62AL]

This goes back to part of my original statement :"Most problems arise from the nut behind the butt through where he shoots the animal and what he chooses to put in his firearm." One should know enough to use something appropriate to get the job done. That is for the person doing the job to decide. Then, if he decided wrongly, it's his body that gets vented on.

Agreed. All this time I thought Bubba was asking earnest questions--turns out, he's a bit of a troll. I'm done here.

[waksupi]

We do have some kids that show up here, that are not properly registered in. I think underage members are supposed to be under a moderated status of some sort, but I'm not sure. Problem is, how do you know how old they are? I suspect this is another teenager or younger.

[bubba15301]

I am.not a troll I was just trying lighten up the mood.on this thread soory if i seemed like a troll

[runfiverun]

he was just doin a little chain jerkin.
figured that out after the 77 gr comment.

[bubba15301]

i am going to use my 32/20 for deer seaon this year i was asking legitimate questions sorry if i ruffled any of your feathers

[PS Paul]

I know Bubba is legitimate on the original post. I do believe he was tryin' to do what he posted: lighten it up a bit- cuz it was gettin' a little heavy.....


So bear with a .32 20? Unlikely. A Pennsylvania deer? Well, I think he can do it provided he truly does get in a spot up close where he can take a very well=placed shot on a smaller (120 to 140 lb.) animal. I am in support of his abilities and hope he gets back with a great sto0ry once he is done huntin'!
Paul

[bubba15301]

some people dont have a sense of humor i guess

[quilbilly]

This is one of the most enjoyable threads in a long time. Agree or disagree, any one of you would be welcome in my duck blind on Quilcene Bay anytime! Just bring an extra sandwich and hot chocolate.

[bubba15301]

i am serious about deer hunting with a 32/20. as i said before i have a spot where 50 yds is along shot.

[btroj]

Get close and I have no doubt it will work. I would want a 120 gr bullet in the 1700 fps range, or faster!

If I ever get a 313316 mould that casts big enough I may just have to use one for deer.

I just have too many guns begging to shoot a deer.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, I assumed there was a little chain jerking going on. However, I would consider shooting deer from a tree stand with a 32/20 or for that matter I have even considered shooting our small Sitka Blacktail with my 25/20. Even that little bullet behind the ear should be a bang flop at 30/40 yds. But because there are big brown bears in most of the spots there are deer, I usually carry a much bigger gun.

[fordwannabe]

I know this is a cast boolit site but you might give the 100 grain XTP a look for that rifle. Yes I know j words are not good for an early barrel DONT shoot many but they should expand pretty well.

[runfiverun]

you need velocity for the xtp's to open.
hornady has a chart for recommended velocity window's that thier xtp's work in.
i wish they put one out for thier rifle bullets also.
i really started using cast in my leverguns in earnest when i had a couple of the xtp's fail to open, when i got some soft tiissue pass throughs on deer.

[badgeredd]

some people dont have a sense of humor i guess

Humor doesn't come thru sometimes in the printed word. :-)

As for using a 32-20 on a deer at 50 yards, I totally believe that a 120 grain boolit cast softish at 1550 fps or more would work very well if the shot was well placed. Energy calculations show a 120 grain boolit will have slightly more energy that a 357 magnum factory load and at least 100 ft-lbs more than the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP which are legal cartridges here in Michigan. Placement of ones shot will be a little more critical, but a man that knows his firearm can get it done, IMHO. Also assuming a .200 or better ballistic coefficient, if one zeroed his gun at 50 yards, the trajectory would still be within a 4" window from zero to 100 yards, and basically flat out to 70 yards (+/- 1.5").

I hope to see some pictures and a tale or two on your success.

Edd

P.S. We are now limited to a straight wall cartridge in my area, from a handgun,1.16" long case, 35 caliber or larger. Some of the cartridges I listed are no longer legal in my part of Michigan, but the 357 Mag is.

[Lloyd Smale]

kind of commical actually. Many who will badmouth a 3220 rifle will come to the defense of a 357 handgun for deer and bear. Up here lots of deer were shot with the 3220. It was the only rifle my grandpa used and he used anemic factory loaded soft points that are no where near what the 3220 is capable of doing with a handloaded cast bullet. Now i kill deer with alot of different guns and no the 3220 wouldnt be my first choise to have on me opening day of deer season but i have killed deer with it and it does work. Its every bit as effective at 50 yards as a 357 handgun with any load you could dream up. Ive also killed a bunch of deer with the 30 carbine. It was actually my first deer rifle. Luckily i wasnt told back when i was young that i was using a caliber that would bounce off of deer. I dont remember ever shooting a deer with the 30 or the 3220 that we didnt eat. Now i may be a bit of a hypocrit because these days i kill most of my deer with mag rifles of some sort but when doing crop damage shooting we seldom get a shot under 200 yards and its just not territory for lever guns of any kind. Point is before you lambasted someone for using a gun you think isnt capable consider that there hunting methods and hunting territorys may not be the same as yours.

[TCFAN]

This may not mean much but the largest deer I ever killed was with a 30 Cal. carbine using a Lyman 311227 boolit cast out of straight linotype. It weighed about 85 grs. Don't remember the load or velocity but it was enough to work the action.The deer was dead before it hit the ground with a shot through the neck at less than 50 feet. He weighed 180 lbs. field dressed and had 9 points.
If I had a good lever gun in 32-20 I would not be afraid of using it on the deer we have here in the Missouri Ozarks.......Terry

[MANGYCOYOTE]

bubba15301
good luck with finding a job and your deer! I'm looking forward to hearing about your successful hunts! I saw on another forum where a guy "proved" a 22LR was lethal up to
400 yards so your 32/20 may be too much gun. My old Remington 22 is the most accurate gun I have but its illegal for deer in OK. Keep us posted on your results please!

[HORNET]

It's not so much what you shoot them with as it is where you shoot them at. I knew a guy from West Virginia that claimed to have killed 22 deer in one year with a .22 LR by shooting them in the head from a tree branch over a trail. I've known a few that have taken deer with a round ball from a .32 muzzleloader. I used to have a link to an article reviewing an African poacher that was convicted of killing elephants with a .22 rimfire. Get close and place your shot right and they'll go down. Gut shoot them with a .300 mag and you may never find them. They deserve to be taken cleanly. It's your call on how to achieve that goal.

[NSP64]

bubba15301, I have a 30 carbine pistol (18" barrel) that I am loading 150 gr RNFP boolits in, @ 1600fps and do not feel under gunned, I may take it bear hunting also.
Our stupid state doesn't allow rifles and only straight walled cartridges in pistols, So, we do what we can with what we have.
I am limiting myself to shots under 300 yrds, because I only have a 2x scope on it.

[bubba15301]

bubba15301
good luck with finding a job and your deer! I'm looking forward to hearing about your successful hunts! I saw on another forum where a guy "proved" a 22LR was lethal up to
400 yards so your 32/20 may be too much gun. My old Remington 22 is the most accurate gun I have but its illegal for deer in OK. Keep us posted on your results please!

found a job . now i need to go hunting . i am going to take the 32/20 turkey hunting when the season opens in October

[leftiye]

Good fer you! Good luck on yer hunt too. Not for Turkey (any hit with most loads , head or breast should kill 'em), but load your 32-20 up some for deer. Use a RNFP or RNHP, or JHP.

[TXGunNut]

found a job . now i need to go hunting . i am going to take the 32/20 turkey hunting when the season opens in October

Congrats on the job! Hope you and your 32-20 have a great hunting season.

[bubba15301]

what load do you reccomend for a 1889 marlin

[bubba15301]

loaded 13.4 grains a1680 and a 95gr swc . also loaded same load with a 100gr wc will see how they shoot sunday. will have to chronograph them.

[TCLouis]

Some of Taffin's info here.

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt3220.htm

He did a different 32-20 "Tests" article in "American Handgunner" that may be of use

[429421Cowboy]

Been watching awhile.... Figured i better show myself in the now famous Deer hunting with a .32/20 thread...

I would wager that i personally could shoot a .32/20 rifle better than my pistol, and i do hunt with my handgun... So it does pass in the accuracy department, especially if limited to close range as mandated by the cartridge.
For power... It is tough to make any comparison to the .223/.22-250 or even the Hornet as these are light rifles, but the detionation that their light bullets at high velocity brings when hitting a deer lets them punch out of their weight class (unless anything but a good though-the-slats vitals hit is made, then they wound badly) on deer size game. I believe it was O'Connor that wrote about killing three grizzlys with a prototype .22-250 with three shots, unless memory fails me again. Here we are talking light bullets at fairly low velocity. If i had a .32/20 that i was dying to use on a deer i would wait for a close head shot with a flat nosed boolit going as fast as i could push it.
A solid lung hit would kill sure as anything, all you have to do is let the air out of them, but i wouldn't be sure the blood trail would be good enough to follow with such a small hole to make recovery a sure thing.
A head shot would be my choice (and i almost never take them for many reasons) with this caliber. I have seen many deer dropped with a .22 lr to the melon, they drop like a stone. I am sure enough in that that i would have no worries at all about using a Velocitor to put meat on the table if i had to. I also have seen two cows dropped at ranges out to 30 yards with the lowly .25/20 placed right in the forehead or, preferably, behind the ear. I certainly think a deer would drop dead as dead with a good shot. However with a bad shot the tables will totally change in a heartbeat and make you wish you had a gun capable of dropping that deer [I]right now[I] with no doubt.
I am not gonna tell you what to do, these are just some of my thoughts on the subject! Have at it!

[bubba15301]

have to get some 120 gr bullets

[bubba15301]

gonna try 20grains of 4f and the 95 grain castbullet

[M-Tecs]

This is the only cartridge that will still kill a deer. http://www.chuckhawks.com/super-ultra-ultra_magnum.htm :kidding:

As a boy my father in-law used to kill two or three moose a year with a 25-20. He lived in remote Alaska. This was in the 20’s and 30’s. They had no horses or vehicles. They had a 303 and a 25-20. When moose came into the garden they let it eat enough to get comfortable then a couple of shots to the ribs with the 25-20. This did not would not scare it. In a minute or two it would wobble and fall over. If they shot it with the 303 it would run off and they would have to carry the meat back. He believes that the 25-20 is the best moose rifle even. I would like to argue with him but he has killed a lot more moose than I ever will.

[bubba15301]

picking up 120 grain bullets tommorow

[UBER7MM]

...If they shot it with the 303 it would run off and they would have to carry the meat back....

That's smart hunting!

[bubba15301]

loaded 13.4 grains 1680 and 120 grain rnfp

[badgeredd]

loaded 13.4 grains 1680 and 120 grain rnfp

According to Quickload, you'll be generating about 25,000 psi and should get around 1600 fps or more assuming you have at least a 20" barrel. Watch for pressure signs, but the load you are using should be perfectly adequate for 50 yards shots that are well placed. Good luck deer hunting with it. I'd like to see a success story later on.

Edd

[bubba15301]

tried 9.0 grains 2400 and a 120 grain rnfp , did not like the 1680 load.2400 load is more accurate.

[runfiverun]

i'd back the 1680 down a bit, i'm right at 11.5 grs in my win 25-20 carbine with plain base boolits
i'm also using sr magnum primers.
haven't shot them in the rifle version yet [i keep forgetting i have it]
if you are using plain base boolits the 1400 window might be all you get without a buffer[or even a filler] of sorts.
hard to go wrong with 2400 in about anything though.

[bubba15301]

i'd back the 1680 down a bit, i'm right at 11.5 grs in my win 25-20 carbine with plain base boolits
i'm also using sr magnum primers.
haven't shot them in the rifle version yet [i keep forgetting i have it]
if you are using plain base boolits the 1400 window might be all you get without a buffer[or even a filler] of sorts.
hard to go wrong with 2400 in about anything though. rifle did not like the 1680 loads might have been too hot. gonna use 2400 ,i have 5 lbs of it

[bubba15301]

tried 8.6 grains of 2400 and the 120gr Missouri cast bullet .shot under 2 inches at 50 yards

[FergusonTO35]

Driving on the wrong side of the road here: I have lots of fun shooting 115 grain boolits at .32-20 velocity out of my Marlin 336 .30 WCF. When modern gun season rolls around I switch to heavier slugs at faster speeds.

Long after I am dead, people will still be wondering whether you can successfully hunt deer with the .32-20 WCF.:popcorn:

[bubba15301]

deer season is the first monday after thanksgiving.

[runfiverun]

we would probably be hunting them on snow machines and snowshoes after thanksgiving.
you'll be catching the end of the rut though.

[bubba15301]

we would probably be hunting them on snow machines and snowshoes after thanksgiving.
you'll be catching the end of the rut though.

rut is usually over by then.

[19112TAP]

My litle Marlin 32-20 did the job on opening day of deer season, took a nice large doe at 50-60 yds broadside 31133 HP medium vel load, entrance wound was behing the right shoulder between a quarter and half dollar size opening up in the lung with the pedals shearing off with a 3/8" exit hole on left side finding pieces of the pedals under the hide she traveled about 50 + yds with a blood trail toward the end.

[IridiumRed]

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/olskool1/IMG_3240.jpgi know there is a lot of people here have real world hunting exp. but, it always amazes me to here people tell me how small calibers won't kill deer. here where i live in SC we can hunt with almost anything, our deer season is kind of long on private land. aug.15- jan.1 no limit on bucks and no tags, so we get a lot of time to try different cal. i am 55 and have been hunting all my life here, my dad and his friends all hunted with what they had. i have saw him kill more deer than i could ever remember with a gun that all the experts say was not humane and just could not do the job. a 22 hornet, he did not lose deer either, all through the 70's i used a 223 and a 22-250 most when shot with either will drop on the spot. bullet placement is the key. a deer shot in the vitals will no go far. i would have no problem useing a 32-20 at the correct distance. i will guarante a cast bullet will not bounce off but will most likley go slam through. please let us know how it does.

yesterday i was shooting my 30rem. in my model 14 carbine with a 170 lyman getting it ready to use on some deer. man i hope is powerful enough! :smile:

I really like your rifle there, I just LOVE the wood. Seems like a pretty cool package all around. One of the "rifle caliber" remington slide actions is somewhere on my list of "guns to buy one day". Not high on that list, but on there.

I think a couple of days in the woods with a rifle like that would be time well spent

PS. On a side note, that .30 remington is in a different league powerwise vs a 32-20.... I think its quite debatable whether a 32-20 is a deer cartridge, good points to be made on both sides, but anyone who told me that they thought a 30 remington was an inadequate deer cartridge (at least for closer ranges), well, I would probably think that person was an idiot...

[bubba15301]

deer season is only a week away

[xs hedspace]

A guy I know has a 32-20 M92 takedown model his grandpa used to poach deer with. Threads on the muzzle...legal for silencer around 1925. If he saw somebody coming, he would take it apart, stuff it in the knapsack. Fed a lot of people with it back in the day...says he doesn't know where the suppressor went.

[starmac]

A guy I know has a 32-20 M92 takedown model his grandpa used to poach deer with. Threads on the muzzle...legal for silencer around 1925. If he saw somebody coming, he would take it apart, stuff it in the knapsack. Fed a lot of people with it back in the day...says he doesn't know where the suppressor went.

This makes a guy wonder when game laws and seasons,and bag limits came about.
It seems like their were still market hunters long after that.

[bubba15301]

only 2 moredays untill deer season

[jlchucker]

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd445/olskool1/IMG_3240.jpgi know there is a lot of people here have real world hunting exp. but, it always amazes me to here people tell me how small calibers won't kill deer. here where i live in SC we can hunt with almost anything, our deer season is kind of long on private land. aug.15- jan.1 no limit on bucks and no tags, so we get a lot of time to try different cal. i am 55 and have been hunting all my life here, my dad and his friends all hunted with what they had. i have saw him kill more deer than i could ever remember with a gun that all the experts say was not humane and just could not do the job. a 22 hornet, he did not lose deer either, all through the 70's i used a 223 and a 22-250 most when shot with either will drop on the spot. bullet placement is the key. a deer shot in the vitals will no go far. i would have no problem useing a 32-20 at the correct distance. i will guarante a cast bullet will not bounce off but will most likley go slam through. please let us know how it does.

yesterday i was shooting my 30rem. in my model 14 carbine with a 170 lyman getting it ready to use on some deer. man i hope is powerful enough! :smile:

Nice looking model 14 you have there, Bowhunter. Don't know if it's powerful enough for deer though. They don't seem to write much about the 30 Remington in Guns & Ammo or the other gun rags much. But if I were you I wouldn't trade that model 14 for a bushel of shortymags in any configuration.

[PS Paul]

Okay, Bubba. I think there are a lot of folks on the board who want to find out how you did with your .32-20 and huntin' over the weekend? If you did any good, please let us know and I will keep an eye out for a post from you!
Paul

[bubba15301]

season doesnt start until monday

[Wolfer]

Ok Bubba, how did it go?

[smoked turkey]

Yes Bubba. Inquiring minds want to know. I have been wondering how it went?

[Wolfer]

Bubba ain't sayin much is he!

[Jeffrey]

Toilet paper on a branch above blood spots can help make it easier to see which way a wounded deer is traveling. Handy for soaking up tears too when the trail runs dry. Yes, the voice of experience. I'll never again shoot a deer with a 30 carbine.

[smoked turkey]

Well I can't say much on that issue. Today I shot at the biggest buck of my life at about 140 yards with my muzzleloader and I looked and looked and apparently missed him completely. I am some depressed tonight. Hopefully Bubba will have a better story than mine. If he has had no luck, I can tell him that there are plenty of us here that have had similar.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

hhhmmmm I too have been watching this thread from the start, how did it go?
I just realy hope your not still out there chasing the trail...:-?

[TXGunNut]

Mebbe he shot his computer.

[PS Paul]

You know, it became an inflammatory thread, but I was really rootin' for Bubba to go out and get himself a buck (or even a small doe....) with his .32-20. If he did any good, I think a LOT of us want to know, right??

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Yeah I want to know.
I've got no experience with deer, but when I did own a 32-20 it was a very good gun to bring down the bigger Roos. (In the day)
Cast boolits were'nt that reliable but a 100gn HP J word over a full dose of 4227 up close would open em up and bring em down.
( in the day, them roos are under a bit more guard now.)

[PS Paul]

Yeah I want to know.
I've got no experience with deer, but when I did own a 32-20 it was a very good gun to bring down the bigger Roos. (In the day)
Cast boolits were'nt that reliable but a 100gn HP J word over a full dose of 4227 up close would open em up and bring em down.
( in the day, them roos are under a bit more guard now.)

Do the hemp-smokin', croc'-lovin', labour-party libtards coddle 'em like fuzzy wee bunnies now? he-he

[HABCAN]

I've been following this thread too, and would sure like to know how it all worked out!! I'm sure my 10" Contender .32-20 will kill deer-size aminules.......from 10' up in a tree stand if the deer-size aminule will stand still directly under said tree and the scope's crosshairs don't wobble off the back of it's head.......but then, there's always that 'sporting chance'...........!! The only thing stopping me is finding a suitable big enough tree around here............! Yup, that's a real problem.

[Dan Cash]

Don't have a .32-20 but did kill a deer this year with a .30 mauser (105 gr cast bullet over 5.5 gr Unique). Some one has shot the deer's fore leg about 8 inches above the hoof so I was able to get fairly close. One shot, DRT.

[Tracy]

I know people who regularly fire multiple shots at deer, see the deer go down then get back up, fire more shots at the deer as it disappears into the brush or over the horizon, then follow the blood trail until it peters out. All of these people I can think of right now use at least a .270 Winchester; most use some kind of magnum rifle.
One guy in particular was hunting about a quarter mile from me when I heard a mag dump from his Remington autoloader in .270. A minute or so later, another complete mag dump. This guy is not a kid, either. He was about 50 at the time.
We did find that deer, and I helped him butcher it a couple hours later. It had two wounds: the one that shattered a foreleg, and the puncture wound into the heart by a bone of the foreleg as the deer tried to run away. I don't hunt with that guy any more.
I would have no problem hunting with a .32/20. And if I had to hunt in close proximity to the aforementioned guy again, I would prefer that he use a .32/20 as well, because an errant bullet might have less chance of making it through the brush and woods to me. He might even be able to shoot it a little better.
In reality I think "hunters" like him would do better with an autoloading .22 rimfire rifle, because they would stand a better chance of hitting the deer in the vitals. But people like him are the ones I most often hear proclaiming that a .30/06 is the minimum for deer, and a .300 WSM or .338 Win Mag is better. When they say that, I mentally translate it to what I know it really means: "I need something so powerful that any hit, even a hoof shot, will be instantly fatal."

[HABCAN]

Tracy, +1!! You said a mouthful. BTDT.

[rollingblock]

Can anyone tell me the difference in killing power between a 30--32 cal boolit weighing 115grs at 1600fps that goes straight through and a 220gr 30---32cal boolit at 1600fps that goes straight through. Seems to me that extra lead at the rear end of the boolit is just along for the ride and probably has minimal effect.

[Bullshop]

Can anyone tell me the difference in killing power between a 30--32 cal boolit weighing 115grs at 1600fps that goes straight through and a 220gr 30---32cal boolit at 1600fps that goes straight through. Seems to me that extra lead at the rear end of the boolit is just along for the ride and probably has minimal effect.
Well actually that extra weight in the boolit does have a very positive effect on killing performance. It has to do with terminal velocity the velocity of the projectile while penitrating. The boolit with the greater mass will retain a higher velocity through out its penitration that will the boolit with less mass, MOMENTUM! The boolit that retains the higher velocity while penitrating will create a larger perminent wound channel for the length of its penitration, splash effect!
So for two boolits of the same diameter at the same impact velocity the one with the greater mass will have the greater killing effect considering the same shot placement and same nose profile or meplate.

[john hayslip]

On a through and trough shot there is probably no difference. However. What if the shot is from 3/4 or worse, a "Texas Heart Shot" where you need penetration. I'd take the heavier boolit every time. If you are willing to limit the shot you take than the 32-30 will do the job. Here in Texas when I was a youngster it was legal to hunt them with a 22 LR and I knew some youngsters who took deer with them. It isn't now. Just because it can be done doesn't make it a good idea.

[rollingblock]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[NMLRA Guy]

Looks like bubba had a bad time! I have a .32-20 and feel that with the proper load/bullet and a well-placed load, there would be meat in the pot! I'd say that even the .30 carbine with proper bullets (not the full-patch military) would do as well.

[Idaho Mule]

I have been following this thread too, and wishing the best for Bubba. Deer can be killed and quite effectively but the guy behind the gun has to do his part. I have taken several (8-10) ?? if memory serves me correctly. All mine have been with an old Winchester 1892, shooting a Rem 100 gr. JSP loaded over 5.7 gr. of Unique. All were taken inside of 50 yds. and all were head shots with the deer standing stock still, usually head down, feeding position, place bullet right behind ear, or in ear, depending on angle. Don't reccomend it for everyone but it always works for me. JW

[onceabull]

22 L.R. Works perfectly in that application,also... Onceabull

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Do the hemp-smokin', croc'-lovin', labour-party libtards coddle 'em like fuzzy wee bunnies now? he-he

LMAO! Yep dems were da days, men was men and..............:redneck: :Fire: :-D

[leftiye]

Well actually that extra weight in the boolit does have a very positive effect on killing performance. It has to do with terminal velocity the velocity of the projectile while penitrating. The boolit with the greater mass will retain a higher velocity through out its penitration that will the boolit with less mass, MOMENTUM! The boolit that retains the higher velocity while penitrating will create a larger perminent wound channel for the length of its penitration, splash effect!
So for two boolits of the same diameter at the same impact velocity the one with the greater mass will have the greater killing effect considering the same shot placement and same nose profile or meplate.

Yup, IF the heavier one and the lighter one are going the same velocity, but they won't have the same velocity if fired from the same gun. In that case the lighter higher velocity boolit will probly do more damage (so long as it hangs together).

[wolfe28]

I did a little math, just because I'm curious about all this. According to castpics, 11g of 2400 will push a 115g boolet at 1679 fps. Also according to castpics, 12g of 2400 will push a 90g boolet at 1868. So, if those are accurate, I'm assuming that Bubba's load of about 8g of 2400 and a 95g boolet would probably leave the barrel about 1500 fps. If all of that is correct, the kinetic energy of his 32-20, at the muzzle is 644kJ, which is the same as a my 357 magnum shooting a 158g boolet with a muzzle velocity of 1163 fps.

All of that said, the smaller boolet would loose its kinetic energy (and penetrating ability) a lot faster than the larger one.

I hope bubba was more successful than I was; I didn't even see a deer this season.

D

[starmac]

Apparently the deer was successful and got Bubba, and I was pulling for him too. lol

[jimgun]

I used the 32-20 for years shooting steel silhouette targets with handguns. I had no problem knocking 70# steel rams down at 200 meters with a 10" barreled gun or for that matter, several doe during a special deer season. carroll pilant, of sierra bullets, gave me loading data for 150, 165, and 180 gr bullets for t/c contender barrels that matched the velocity and knock down power of the 300 whisper/300 acc blackout ie 30x221 fireball. I would imagine that a longer barrel would only improve ballistics, so i don't know why anyone would say it isn't a reliable deer cartridge, providing the correct bullets were used. if anyone is interested, let me know and I will post the email I received from carroll. thanks jim

[Jeffrey]

Deer are made of meat, not steel. It's not a simple matter of hitting an inanimate target on the right spot. When I first drew on a deer, my heart was making such a racket I thought the deer would hear it. Yes, deer have been taken by poachers with a 22LR who have no regard for the animal. That does not make the 22LR an adequate deer cartridge. I recently took a doe with a 50 cal 320 gr REAL boolit from a muzzle loader double lung hit. She went over 300 yards (recovered). I respect the animal too much to hit it with something that is not going to knock it off its hooves. It's been said that while more deer have been harvested with a 30-30 than any other cartridge, it has also been said that more deer have been mortally wounded and not recovered with that same cartridge. The first deer I shot was with a 30 carbine. I'll never forget the track, over 400 yards, didn't recover it (foamy blood - lung hit?). That will never happen again. My cast boolit cartridge of choice is now the 444 Marlin. Big hole all the way through, haven't lost one yet.

[bubba15301]

all i saw was a spike, not legal in pa

[PS Paul]

HEY! Bubba, glad to finally hear about yer hunt! Lots of us were rootin' for ya! Well, there's always next year, man!
Paul

[Idaho Mule]

Bubba, good to hear from you again, I was starting to think maybe the deer got you. Sorry about your bad luck, but as Paul says there is always next year. JW

[wolfe28]

all i saw was a spike, not legal in pa

You had better luck than I did. I didn't see squat.

Oh well. As the Cubs fans say "better luck next year".

D

[mpmarty]

Inasmuch as I HATE tracking wounded deer I limit my deer rifle to my '95 Marlin in 45/70 and have never had a deer take a step after the shot. DRT.

[Wolfer]

Well Bubba, that's why they call it huntin.

[ammohead]

When I was just 13, over 40 years ago. My cousins were up for deer season in NE WI. They had a slab side 1895 marlin in 45-70 and also brought along a almost identical (to my young eyes) model 1894 marlin in 25-20. Both had square bolts and long octagon bbls. While comparing the cartridges I commented on how small the 25-20 was. My cousin's friend Vern who's family owned the rifles since new said "Don't kid yourself, that 25-20 has taken more deer than all the family's rifles put together. Most were under the spot light, but that is a different story". Both rifles were old enough to have seen days before the creation of the Department of Natural Resources and the depression.

[bubba15301]

gonna try it again this year

[badgeredd]

gonna try it again this year

It CAN be done...check out this thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220054-Buck-Kill-with-32-20-ballistics

My wildcat based on a 38 Special case.

Edd

[Idaho Mule]

Ok Bubba, yer on!!! I am going to break out one of my 32-20's and go for it too. I think I will use the Marlin 1894, but I reserve the option of using the wife's older Winchester 92 if I deem necessary. This is not going to be easy as I have only 2 more days to hunt before I go for shoulder surgery. The 32-20 will be enough for the job if I get close enough. I think I will pack my old S&W for backup too. JW

[Idaho Mule]

Sorry to report no kills with the 32-20, I packed the Marlin. Did see a nice doe this evening but she would not stop (she was on to me) and at over 60 yards I was not going to make the shot. And with that, I am done for the year, shoulder surgery in the morning. JW

[bubba15301]

Got this last dayof deer season182665

[dk17hmr]

Dang that's a big deer.

[Hamish]

bubba,

I distinctly remember when you started this thread and all the garbage thrown own your way about using the .32-20.


[smilie=1: Nice pic sir,,,,,,,

[Silvercreek Farmer]

With the 32-20?! Looks like a solid lung shot from the pic.

[rodwha]

Elk not deer.

[Hamish]

Elk not deer.

sheesh, now everyone will know,,,,,

[leftiye]

Jack O'Connor told of shooting an elk with a 375 H&H and losing it. He later shot it - this time dead - again. It had a scar through the lungs from the .375. Just sayin'.

[BrentD]

Elk not deer.

An elk is a deer, but a deer is not necessarily an elk. Ditto for moose.

But taxonomy aside, Bravo! for that elk-deer and whatever it was killed with. Bravo! indeed!

[Lonegun1894]

Congratulations, Bubba! May I ask weapon and load specifics? Or at least what you're comfortable sharing with us? This ought to prove that whatever you used is plenty for any deer walking in range of you.

[Beaverhunter2]

The Jordan Buck was killed with a .25-20

Not my first choice but good shot placement is the most important thing.

John

In the interests of full disclosure I used a .450 Marlin in 2014, a .30-30 in 2015, a .30-06 this year, and I'm planning on using a 6.5 Grendel next year. [smilie=1: