1903 Springfield sights,

[Four Fingers of Death]

I took my 1942 made Remington 1903 to the range for the first time today. Not using cast yet,but shooting off a lot of milsurp ammo (also made in 1942! few ftfs,but most ok, I will pull the rest).

Boy, the sights are complicated, lol. Need a driver's license to operate them.

Our shed is a bit dark and with the sunlight streaming in the graduations, etc are all but invisible to me. I take it you aim with the sight which is at the base of the triangle for shorter ranges and the upper one for longer ranges. Is the hole in the sight ever used as a peep?

Any links to useful info re the sights and a source for a 1907 sling?

I wouldn't mind gettign a spare sight leaf/flap/ upright or whatever you call it that I can open up with a file to suit my elderly eyes and keep the original with the rifle toput backon when I'mtoo old to shoot it. I will try and take some pics tomorrow.

It is a lovely rifle, original throughout and no cheesy stamped bits, very impressive.

[WineMan]

See if this helps:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080517110711/http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/1903/index.asp

Dave

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The link provided by Wineman has a good picture of the rear sight and a clearly marked explanation of which part does what. Before I had corrective cataract surgery I could only use "d" as shown (the triangle) and not the peeps. You could bore the peeps out to be larger, but it will depend on your visual acuity as to whether it will improve things and how much. The sights as explained are set up for use primarily in battle/combat situations although excellent target scores are possible with the use of milsurp ammo especially match quality stuff...and/or carefully prepared target grade reloads. If using cast bullets and that's all I use in my 03's, the original yardage specs for the rifle's sights become useless and depending on the bullet weight and the MV, the new points of impact will be significantly lower. Not to worry because it means only using higher settings than were used with GI ball ammo. "V" type sight is somewhat easier to use than peeps especially for (my) aging eyes, but if they are made larger that helps. The topmost setting of 2750 yards is silly cause you would need such a huge target at that distance in addition to not being able to see anything at that range, so work with what can be adjusted. It will take some work to figure out what works best for you personally so don't worry about what "they" or others used for whatever they were doing. Keep notes on which sight and what combo of components you use for your reloads and you will successfully have what you need/are looking for.You don't have to use the peeps (although they are optically more precise), but unless you either modify them (if practical) or use shooting glasses with an adjustable iris (used by some bullseye shooters) it will be difficult to do so. A substitute leaf is a good idea. You can also use some white chalk or paint to rub into the graduation markings to improve their contrast/visibility for the low light situations (it can be easily removed with solvent on a rag. Good shooting. LLS

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks for that!

[Dutchman]

You can buy cheap m/1907 sling reproductions but the absolute best m/1907 reproduction is the Turner sling. http://prostores3.megawebservers.com/turnersling_com/-strse-1/M1907-Military-Rifle-Sling/Detail.bok

Original m/1907 slings are rather old and tend to be dry and cracked. Really nice originals can be very costly. I have a Turner m/1907 sling on my Springfield and there is none better. I prefer the WW2 version with parkerized hooks. The WW1 version had brass hooks.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/temp/1903_Springfield_1911_Manual.pdf

Dutch

[Uncle Jimbo]

Four Fingers, my father died in June and I have been going through his things at my mothers request and ran across this rear sight. I do know it came from a 1903 30-06 because my dad sporterized it,(is that a word) and used it for long time until the bolt handle broke. I have it now and have tried cleaning it up, it had rust from just sitting around in his shop for years.
But, if this what you are looking for, you can have it if you want to pay for the postage to get it to you.

[Multigunner]

Jimbo you are a prince among men, and one of the people who have made this site one of the very best places to belong on the net.

I hope you can get your dad's old sporter back in great condition.
My dad passed away near 35 years ago, at about the same age I am now. Mom lived to be 93, and I'm still working on getting over the loss.
My nephew recently passed away at an early age from cancer, just before he passed over his sister was at his bedside and heard him talking in his sleep, he was speaking with my mom. I know he is in heaven because mom was there to show him the way.

Like many I prefer military rifles in their original configuration, but I also appreciate a fine sporting rifle made from these classic actions.
Custom sporting rifles based on the Springfield action are a true bit of Americana, and they can be and usually are the best of the breed.

[Bent Ramrod]

It is possible to run a small center drill bit into the rear peep to get a little more light through it without making a noticeably larger hole. When I did this I didn't regard it as "cheating" since most peep sights are closer to the eye. The modification definitely helps, and I believe there was a special fatter "Marine Corps" front sight that gave a squarer profile easier to spot through the rear peep.

I always liked Capt. Ned Crossman's extensive review and critique of the sight, in his The Book of The Springfield which concluded with:

"All in all, the '05 Springfield rear sight is quite an accomplishment. It has a peep which is much too far from the eye, and some open sights which are much too near. It is cursed out by target shooters as having too few fine and accurate adjustments for target shooting, and by military experts as having too many. You cannot see a prone enemy in a neutral colored uniform on a non-contrasting background through the peep sight, and if you shoot at him with the battle sight you miss him by a foot. There are numerous and confusing aiming spots when the leaf is upright, while the graduatons on the sight are so close together that the rattled shooter, all hell, and the fileclosers cannot read 'em to save their necks. The slide does not lock itself, when locked. Outside of these few minor details, it is a good sight."

Of course, it is a good sight, in its way. My rifle performs very well with it at 600 yards, on a black circle. It is definitely helped by my Paddy O'Hare sight micrometer at longer ranges. It's just that the sight, like the rifle itself, was designed by a committee, with all the amendments and riders that such a group would compromise on as a matter of course.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Four Fingers, my father died in June and I have been going through his things at my mothers request and ran across this rear sight. I do know it came from a 1903 30-06 because my dad sporterized it,(is that a word) and used it for long time until the bolt handle broke. I have it now and have tried cleaning it up, it had rust from just sitting around in his shop for years.
But, if this what you are looking for, you can have it if you want to pay for the postage to get it to you.

WOW! That's mighty generous Uncle Jimbo! Trouble is, I live in Australia and I think if your customs didn't pick it up and confiscate it, ours would. Too good to have it end up in the rubbish.

That is exactly the same as my sight too.

Maybe someone here who is restoring an 03' would appreciate it.

Thanks again.

Mighty funny, Bent Ramrod!

[W.R.Buchanan]

FFOD: Mick +1 on Dutchmans recommendation of the Turner M1907 sling. They are absolutely the best.

You can get cheepys from Cheaper than Dirt for $20 US, or ones by Triple K for $20 from Cabelas. The cheaper ones have brass hardware which turns green over time. I am also partial to 1.25" wide slings as opposed to 1" wide slings. just because there is more surface area to spread the load out on your shoulder. This actually makes a difference carrying around a 9.5lb Garand. I have both (you can see both in the safe)

Or buy the good Turner ones, from Brownells, Midway or better yet Creedmore Sports for around $50.

Creedmore sells all things National Match related. And R. Lee Ermy is on their shooting team, so they are the most cool!

You'll note that the Turner sling on my Garand, is strapped (installed) the "Marine Corps way" with the hooks on the inside of the sling. This allows you to exit the sling by just pulling on the tag end, whereas the "Army way" with the hooks on the outside does not.

The Turner ones are made from the best supple leather, and will last a long time. They are an absolute joy to use. Also you'll need to get a book on using the thing as in order to get the most out of a sling there are many little nuances that must be learned. There are many sets of instructions for the M1907 Sling on the web for free download. I assure you there is more to it than meets the eye, but the increase in accuracy obtained is significant.

This is an absolute must have item on a Springfield Rifle. Even my Sportized Springfield 03A3 has this type of sling. It is just part of the gun.

All that said Turners are the best so "Buy the best , only cry once."

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks WR, I have an Aussie made 07' sling on my M17 and it looks very similar to the Turner sling, real well made. I might let my head go and import a Turner or two.

[Hip's Ax]

I use Turner slings on all my NM service rifles but, they are not THE best. National Match across the course shooters agree that Les Tam makes the best 1907 style NM legal slings. They are a little more then the price of a Turner.

http://www.lestam.com/

[Four Fingers of Death]

I use Turner slings on all my NM service rifles but, they are not THE best. National Match across the course shooters agree that Les Tam makes the best 1907 style NM legal slings. They are a little more then the price of a Turner.

http://www.lestam.com/

They look good! Thanks, Mick.

[MtGun44]

5 month waiting period on Tam slings.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

5 month waiting period on Tam slings.

Bill

Thanks, I saw that, worth waiting for apparently.

[JeffinNZ]

That sight is a thing of engineering beauty be anyones standards but I can't help but think is was WAAAAYYYY too complicated for your average foot soldier. Still, for those that still have one it's your gain.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yep for a reasonably smart 19 year old with a cool hand they would have provided a deadly tool. For a dumb klutz that was frightened out of his wits, they were probably a bit too involved.

[Bob Busetti]

I also have been gifted with a Springfield rear sight from a forum member. When my aunt left me an 03A1 rifle it had no rear sight. I was thankful to get a free rear sight after offering to pay for it. Great people here.
Bob

[gew98]

Yep for a reasonably smart 19 year old with a cool hand they would have provided a deadly tool. For a dumb klutz that was frightened out of his wits, they were probably a bit too involved.

I beg to differ. Those sights are likely the most delicate and most easily damaged of any battle rifle of either world wars. Practical combat sights like on the german , Russki and some english rifles were considerably more effective and rugged. Same can be said of the optics mounted to 03's in both world wars....pathetic !.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Trouble is when in the trenches with th eHun at your doorstep, most would have been dumb Klutzes! I know I probably would have been, The KISS principle would have been more appropriate there.

[Reverend Recoil]

Ron Brown makes good 1907 slings. Ron learned sling making from Les Tam. They both get their leather from the same source. I have two of Ron's slings. One on my AR14 service rifle and the other on my M1.

http://servicerifleslings.com/

[Kestrel4k]

Four Fingers, my father died in June and I have been going through his things at my mothers request and ran across this rear sight. I do know it came from a 1903 30-06 because my dad sporterized it,(is that a word) and used it for long time until the bolt handle broke. I have it now and have tried cleaning it up, it had rust from just sitting around in his shop for years.
But, if this what you are looking for, you can have it if you want to pay for the postage to get it to you.


WOW! That's mighty generous Uncle Jimbo! Trouble is, I live in Australia and I think if your customs didn't pick it up and confiscate it, ours would. Too good to have it end up in the rubbish.

That is exactly the same as my sight too.

Maybe someone here who is restoring an 03' would appreciate it.

Thanks again.

Good timing on this thread. My Dad just passed away earlier this summer and I spent part of the past weekend cleaning out his old Rock Island 1903 (1909 mfg). In a few spots the ancient oils had turned to varnish and it's been a handful getting it all off. I've been giving the barrel one 'wet' patch per day and I have no idea when I'll finish getting the copper fouling out of it.

Unfortunately the rear sight had been broken some time ago, I read prior posts here in this thread with great interest as I would love a replacement rear 'ladder' sight assembly if Jimbo or someone else could offer one if they had an 'extra'. I would be more than happy to cover the the shipping costs, it would mean a lot to me to get the rear sight functional again on my Dad's rifle.

My Dad told me a number of good stories about this rifle; He killed many moose with it while he was a trapper up in AK, he finally retired it when he heard about the 'low-serial #' Rock Island 1903's. He was a WWII veteran that trained with both a 1903 and an M1 Garand. Being a 'leftie' was one reason that he liked the M1's more - back in the '90's I purchased an M1 from the CMP and one good memory I have was giving him the opportunity to shoot it as he hadn't shot one for ~50 years.

I know that folks love pics so when I get the rifle back together I will definitely post pics in this thread.

Thanks folks,

[Four Fingers of Death]

Wow Kestrel, that is one special rifle. I tried to get my Dad to come away hunting once and he declined, saying "the only thing I have ever hunted is Japs and they won't let you shoot them any more."