35-55?

[Boomer Mikey]

It looks like a reamer can be made to create a more versitile 35 caliber for 30-30 actions.

The original wildcat was called the .350 Maine Guide.

With friendly and available reformed 30-30 and 38-55 brass for cast loads and heavier 375 Winchester brass for Jword bullets this cartridge has all the potential of becoming a more versitile cartridge than the 35 Remington.

180-200 grain jword bullets and 180-250 grain cast boolits should work well with a wider range of powders like 4198, 322, 335, 4895, 2400, etc.

The cartridge length would feed fine in 30-30 actions meaning a 357 magnum barrel screwed onto a 30-30 action and rechambered to .350 Maine Guide would make a perfect woods gun for North America, the 35-55.

Boomer :Fire:

[357maximum]

Mikey you has a winner idea here, I think so anyhow...keep us informed.

[6pt-sika]

I've seen mention before of the 35/30-30 .Most of what I've read said it was an option for shot out 30-30 and 32 Special barrels as opposed to rebarreling .

This 35/38-55 sounds kinda intresting , thou I must admit I had never heard of this approach until just now .



It seems when Winchester "came out" with the 375 WIN ( aka a revamped 38-55). There were also drawings on the table for the 408 Winchester . And this 408 was supposed to be based on the 30-30 case . There plan was to unveil the 408 WInchester if the sales for the 375 WInchester were good .

Well we all know how that went ! Sales for the 375 WIN sucked , so the plans for the 408 were deep sixed .

Now with all that said I would be up for a rimmed 35 be it based on the 30-30 or 38-55 . And of course I would be intrested in the never seen 408 Winchester [smilie=1:

[Scrounger]

I still like the .358 JDJ, a .444 Marlin necked down. Should work through the 94 Winchester or 336 Marlin.

[Blackwater]

Just FWIW, a buddy came across a real intriguing rifle not too long ago. It was a Marlin 336 that had been bored out from .35 Rem. to a straight cased (slight taper actually) version taking .40 cal. pistol bullets. The 200 gr. bullet was alegedly a real killer on our whitetails here. It was stolen from his brother's pickup after he had a pretty good fender bender, and forgot the rifle was in the truck. Dies had to be made, but the 'smith who made it did that, too. I think it was for a friend of his (the 'smith's). It headspaced on the case mouth, apparently. The .35 Rem. is a bit larger in diameter than the .30/30 case, so should hold a touch more powder, but if you're going to go the .35 route on the .30/30 case, why not Ackleyize it too? The .30/30 case is pretty steeply tapered, and getting the taper out and lengthening the powder chamber a bit ought to add more good stuff to the mix .... maybe? The .30/30 Ackley apparently gives some significant improvement in ballistics, but the round nosed bullets can't carry that advantage out as far as one would initially think. Too ballistically "inefficient." Lever operated .35's aren't designed for real long ranges anyway, though, so .... and the smaller more tapered case may (?) feed a tad better??? Won't have to use as much powder to get a killing load with the smaller, non-"improved" case, so it'd be cheaper to shoot.

Isn't vascillation fun when it comes to these decisions?

[Boomer Mikey]

First of all, I'm not a gunsmith but I have built 4 rifles so far. A 338-06, 243 Winchester, 45-70 Rolling Block, and the little 30-30/375 Winchester you see in my avatar. I have all the basic tools needed to do my own work, a lathe, vertical mill and some experience.

The lousy chambers in my 10" and 15" TC Contender 357 Remington Maximum barrels with their 0.400" long "cone shaped throats" have continued to haunt me for the last 15 years. There's no way you can touch rifling with a 200 grain bullet in a TC Contender chambered for 357 maximum.

My goal is to cut a decent chamber into my existing 357 maximum barrels to obtain a mild mannered, powerful 358 cartridge that's flexible enough to get the job done with a wide margin of safety, not a solution that tries to take my head off like the 444 variants do in the pistol configuration.

The 357 Herrett has plenty of power but the 357 Herrett is too short to cleanup the original chamber. I had 10" and 14" 30 Herrett barrels... making brass for those was a PITA. I want to run a 38-55 case through a full length die producing a case ready to run through an "M" die and load.

I don't profess to be re-inventing the wheel but I'm hoping to make good use of the wheels I already have, then move on to the lever gun.

I believe I can take a set of 38-55 Hornady dies; modify the full length sizing die to use a custom steel neck size bushing and make a new seating die sleeve.

So... all I really need is a chamber reamer, and in a pinch I can use that to make sizing and seating dies too.

Anyway, enough daydreaming for now,

Boomer :Fire:


Thumbnail of RCBS 35-200-FN that can't reach rifling in 357 maximum.

[Marlin Junky]

Bellm claims all one has to do in order to create his .358 cartridge is run .444 Marlin brass into a Lyman made .358 Winchester FL die and presto... the .358 Bellm. Actually I am considering this conversion on a .357 Magnum Handi-Rifle depending on its condition when it comes back from the NEF repair folks.

Is the .444 necked to .358 (it has a nice long neck) too much case for your purposes? Mike Bellm said he would convert the .357 H-R to .358 Bellm for $135.00 which included the extractor work.

MJ

http://www.bellmtcs.com/BellmTriad/358BellmData.htm

[bdoyle]

I have a TC barrel in 35 rem rimmed. The brass is made from 30-40 Krag trimmed back and run thru a standard 35 rem die. Seems you could leave em a bit longer to clean up any remaining chamber and still use standard dies. Brass is 2.3 long to start.
Just a thought...
Brian

[Boomer Mikey]

Bellm claims all one has to do in order to create his .358 cartridge is run .444 Marlin brass into a Lyman made .358 Winchester FL die and presto... the .358 Bellm. Actually I am considering this conversion on a .357 Magnum Handi-Rifle depending on its condition when it comes back from the NEF repair folks.

Is the .444 necked to .358 (it has a nice long neck) too much case for your purposes? Mike Bellm said he would convert the .357 H-R to .358 Bellm for $135.00 which included the extractor work.

MJ

http://www.bellmtcs.com/BellmTriad/358BellmData.htm

Yes,

I believe the 358 Bellm is actually easier to make and a simpler conversion for TC’s and the Handi-Rifle but I don't want the 444’s extra case capacity. Mike Bellm is using the 444 case to clean up 35 Remington chambers and a look at loading density for the loads listed reveals a hint of too much case capacity. Mike Bellm's work and reputation is outstanding and I was going to send him my Max barrels for the 358 Bellm conversion until I saw the .350 Maine Guide cartridge drawing using a 38-55 case. This project isn't intended to compete with JD Jones or Mike Bellm's work in any way.

I don't want to modify the bolt face and feed parts on the 30-30's for the larger 444 case either. 38-55 and 30-30 carrier and feed parts are the same in all the lever guns. In other words, a simple lever gun conversion any competent gunsmith could do and be completely reversible by re-installing the original barrel in less than 30 minutes.

I don't plan to blow the case out with a minimum body taper either... just a 38-55 case with a neck long enough to hold a 200-250 grain bullet without being in the powder room. This isn't intended to exceed 35 Remington ballistics but should produce better ballistics than the 357 Maximum while staying in the safe pressure range of the 38-55. I'm guessing this would push 200-250 grain cast bullets at 2000 fps without any difficulty in carbines. Giving the chamber the Ackley treatment could be a future option to compete with 35 Remington ballistics.

Boomer :Fire:

[felix]

It it were me, I'd use just the plain old 30-30 case and be done with it. The only qualms, for me anyway, would be your objective of using 250 grainers. I would limit the whole shootin' match to 180 grainers, and go for a 20 twist. Shows how I think. I prefer velocity over weight to make for a longer point blank range. ... felix

[Scrounger]

Felix, why not just stay with the .30 caliber? The 180 to 200 grain bullets would give you the best of both worlds. That's the reasoning I've used to talk myself out of .35 Remingtons for years. What we want is an emotional urge; what makes sense is a whole different animal...

[lovedogs]

Years ago a gunsmith friend of mine developed a similar wildcat to be used in the Contender. He just took a Contender .357 Herrett and reamed the chamber to accept a necked down .375 Win. It's called a .35/.375 KAP. I had one for a few years and it worked great. The .375 brass is a bit hard to come by these days but one could use .30-30 brass. Those .375 cases worked great and lasted forever. It handled all the .35 cal. bullets well but wasn't much fun to shoot from a Contender when you got above 200 gr. The pistol would shoot Hornady 200 gr. J-bullets at 2000 FPS from a 14 inch tube and was used to take six head of elk. Darn good caliber. In a rifle it'd be wonderful.

[felix]

The only reason, Scrounger, is to use the 357 pistol molds laying around doing nothing except for an occassional outing with the 38/357 revolters. I do have a rossi that is fun to 1800, but the reason for the larger case would be to get 2400 and that would be the ONLY reason. Worth it? Not hardly, except for emotional reasons like you say. Need 2400 with a 200 grainer? Use the remmie 35R. ... felix

[scrapcan]

Sounds to me like he has a platform to make meet his needs, and the camber is in 35 cal. When I get the urge to do something like this I get out the manual of cartridge conversion and go looking for reamers to rent. Then I put book back on the shelf and file the stuff I found. The go shoot something that is fun. Kind of like horses, too many good ones to have to mess with a problem unless you real have the mind too.

[9.3X62AL]

I was all about having a 35-30 AI barrel made up for an old takedown Savage 1899 I once had in 25-35, along with 30-30 AI and 38-55. Getting the 9.3 x 62 in 2002--coupled with its fine work using 270 grain castings--has taken the steam out of the 38-55 and AI levergun ideas. The 9.3 can cover a lot of ground, and my energy for experimentation isn't what it once was.

[Pilgrim]

I would be sorely tempted to ream the 10" barrel with an Ackley .30-30 reamer using a .357 pilot. Use that barrel to fireform plain old .30-30 to an improved .35/30. Saves lots of cash re: brass, and will give you nearly as much case capacity as the necked down .38-55. I suspect that it would give you about all the case capacity you could usefully use in a 14" barrel. If the 10" re-chamber works out well, then you can do the same thing with the 14". That would also give you a case that would for sure feed in a .30-30 rifle as well re: length, etc. FWIW Pilgrim

[Marlin Junky]

Boomer Mikey,

Since the .358Bellm is too much case for you and probably for me too on the H-R, (I already own a .358 Winchester and a .35 Remington) the .350 Maine sounds very good. Actually, the other way I may go on the H-R is a .35-40 Maynard which I understand can be made from the 38-55 and is a straight tapered case, 2.06" long. With a 16" twist it should handle anything from pop cans to an occasional cow elk using soft 250 grain boolits. I would also like to get a chamber that is paper patch friendly so I'm asking for something very esoteric on a rifle that pretty much qualifies for a kid's first centerfire. If the 35-40 Maynard conversion doesn't pan out, I'll either unload the H-R (comes with a Whelen barrel too) or go with a 35-30 Winchester conversion, which can likely be handled by a local gunsmith.

Good luck with your conversion and keep us posted.

MJ

[Boomer Mikey]

Actually, the 356 Winchester is a perfect solution for the 30-30 action but just a little short of cleaning up my 357 Max chambers. It may be more practical from the standpoint of dies and chamber reamers too... I see e-gunparts has 356 Winchester barrels for Winchester 94AE's in stock.

A few checks with load from a disk show the following results in case capacity:

358 JDJ 71.518 grains of water
358 Winchester 57.191 grains of water
356 Winchester 56.394 grains of water
350 Guide 1 53.182 grains of water
35 Remington 51.000 grains of water
35/30-30 50.562 grains of water
35-30 46.982 grains of water
357 Herrett 45.271 grains of water
357 Maximum 34.500 grains of water


The biggest disadvantage for the 35 Remington is the short throat.

The 35/30-30 looks like an excellent choice too as Clymer has reamers and RCBS has dies available and it's long neck provides lots of options with bullet sizes.

This really puts things into perspective.

For my lever gun project I'm looking more toward the 356 Winchester and the 35/30-30 because of die and reamer availability.

With half a grain difference between the 35 Remington and 35/30-30 in case capacity I would prefer the 35/30-30.

Boomer :Fire:

[45 2.1]

If your going to rechamber to the 350 Guide, consider short chambering it slightly so you can form standard 30-30s and have to trim the case slightly.

[Marlin Junky]

I don't understand the difference between the 35/30-30 Winchester and the 35-30 Winchester. "Cartridges of the World" 10th Edition implies the names are interchangeable. Is the 35-30 a straight taper version while the 35/30-30 (what an awkward name!) is technically a bottle neck version?

MJ

[Boomer Mikey]

Cartridge: Water Capacity: Neck Length: Case Style: COL: (est)
358 JDJ 71.518 grains of water 0.310” Bottle Neck 3.080”
358 Winchester 57.191 grains of water 0.365” Bottle Neck 2.780”
356 Winchester 56.394 grains of water 0.365” Bottle Neck 2.560”
350 Guide 53.182 grains of water 0.343" Bottle Neck 3.045”
35 Remington 51.000 grains of water 0.326” Bottle Neck 2.540”
35/30-30 50.562 grains of water 0.364” Bottle Neck 2.550”
35-30 46.982 grains of water 0.359” Taper 2.940”
357 Herrett 45.271 grains of water 0.380” Bottle Neck 2.400”
357 Maximum 34.500 grains of water NA Straight 1.990”

It looks like the 350 Guide and 35-30 would be excellent TC Contender cartridges but not suitable for lever guns due to their long COL.

35/30-30 and 356 Winchester still look hard to beat in the lever guns and will cycle through standard 30-30 actions fine.

I'm leaning closer to the 35/30-30 for my 30-30 lever gun conversion and the 350 Maine Guide for the 357 Max barrels.

Boomer :Fire:

[Marlin Junky]

Boomer,

If you have QuickLoad, and don't mind the effort, why don't you see what kind of ballistics you can come up with using all the .35 cal conversions on the basic 38-55 case? Use a 180, 200, 225 and 250 grain boolit. Perhaps you can even throw in the .35 Remington for the sake of reference.

MJ

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer,

If you have QuickLoad, and don't mind the effort, why don't you see what kind of ballistics you can come up with using all the .35 cal conversions on the basic 38-55 case? Use a 180, 200, 225 and 250 grain boolit. Perhaps you can even throw in the .35 Remington for the sake of reference.

MJ

I don't, so I won't.

Like Cat says, think for yourself.

Boomer :Fire:

[Marlin Junky]

I don't, so I won't.

Like Cat says, think for yourself.

Boomer :Fire:

BM,

If I owned "QuickLoad" or "Load From a Disk", I wouldn't have bothered asking.

[Boomer Mikey]

BM,

If I owned "QuickLoad" or "Load From a Disk", I wouldn't have bothered asking.

I downloaded demo versions of both for the first time yesterday.

Quickload's learning curve is too long for me.

Load From a Disk was easy to use.

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

I sent requests for chamber drawings to three major reamer manufacturers and received an answer immediately from Dave Manson. I've done business with his company in the past... a first rate guy.

Chamber drawings for the:

Maine Guide #1

Maine Guide #2

35/30-30


The 35/30-30 and Maine Guide #2 are virtually identical except for:

Shoulder angle; (30 degrees on the 35/30-30 and 15 degrees on the Maine Guide #2)

Throat freebore length; (0.075" on the 35/30-30 and 0.100" on the Maine Guide #2)

Neck Length; (0.364" on the 35/30-30 and 0.343 on the Main Guide #2)


Both are based on 30-30 WCF or 32 Winchester special cases.

Very interesting,

Boomer :Fire:

[6pt-sika]

CH4D has 35/30-30 dies listed for about $72 plus shipping .

And for what its worth , they also have dies listed for the 408 Winchester [smilie=1:

Wonder how hard it would be to make a 408 Winchester on a marlin 336/1895 action [smilie=1:

[Grandpa Dolan]

Boomer send me your e-mail Addy. I got too much to say about that cartridge and what happened for a post. But will do it latter. I would like to tell you a long story about this 35-30/30 that I am not sure even I believe.....wlgal@sbcglobal.net....Grandpa Dolan

[Boomer Mikey]

CH4D has 35/30-30 dies listed for about $72 plus shipping .

And for what its worth , they also have dies listed for the 408 Winchester [smilie=1:

Wonder how hard it would be to make a 408 Winchester on a marlin 336/1895 action [smilie=1:

Thanks for the heads up on the dies... I'll bet if you ask Dave Manson for the chamber drawing of the 408 Winchester he'll e-mail it to you.

I'm ordering a 35/30-30 reamer with 2 pilot bushings and "GO" "NOGO" gages in the morning. The 2 pilots are for the T/C 357 Max and standard 358 barrels. T/C's are typically undersize.

Now, to find a 336A with a bad bore,

Boomer :Fire:

[Frank46]

Mikey, there was another 35/30-30 cartridge. As if you didn't need another. Think it was called the 35 Rose. Supposedly it was just the 30-30 case necked up to 35 caliber with no other changes. And if my memory still is working, its the 35 rimmed cartrdige on the front cover of one of the supplements to the NRA cast bullet book.Then again this may be about some of the cartridges you mentioned and my memory has finally gone to pot. Frank

[No_1]

Gosh Grandpa,

I would like to hear that story too.

R.


Boomer send me your e-mail Addy. I got too much to say about that cartridge and what happened for a post. But will do it latter. I would like to tell you a long story about this 35-30/30 that I am not sure even I believe.....wlgal@sbcglobal.net....Grandpa Dolan

[AnthonyB]

Me too! I tried to send an e-mail but it bounced back. Tony

[JDL]

Oh, come on Grandpa, we all want to hear! :-D -JDL

[Scrounger]

The correct email address is w6gal@sbcglobal.net

[Grandpa Dolan]

Looks like , in my bumbling around, I did it wrong again So I post this tryin, to get it right!!! Bear wid me. First I again owe my old friend Scrounger a thank you for all the help. ...Now the 35-30/30...For some reason I do not understand I shoot lever action silhouette, lots of it almost every week some place. If gas getts any higher I may have to cut back. Thats another subject. with all that shootin' my lead pot is warm most of the time. Now it is my opinion that heavy bullets, up from 200 grains are needed to insure rams at 200 Yd. go down, but lighter ones at the shorter ranges, caues of recoil..I had a 35 Rem. once it worked fine. 'sept I also think the longer barrel, sight radius, is a must. Also the heaver bullet s in the 35 stuck to far down in the case. That 35 went away.
So for some 6 months I've been lookin at what info I could find on, and for a 35-30/30, oh 47/70s and 38/55s came and went. I just wanted a 35-30/30, Don't
have to explain it....Scrounger found me an 1893 30/30, Dies coould be found at Horanady, RCBS did not want to make me a set. I was about to send the barrel off to be rebored when for no good reason I checked Gun Broker to see what else could be found and low an behold there was a 35-30/30 in auction, from a gun smith I knew in Idaho. I called him. We talked. I hit the "buy it now button. " It is now on the way to my FFL dealer. Dang CA laws. It should be in my hands in about 2 weeks. Oh, This purchase will be a saving of a $200. and many many weeks. Then there is all these posts on cast boolets. Just don't believe it, even tho I did go to church lase week. Take time to pllay Grandpa Dolan

[Boomer Mikey]

It looks like Grandpa Dolan and I are on the same page in several ways:

We like Lever Action Silhouette

We love Cast Boolits

We're going to experience the 35/30-30

We're Ham Radio guys... I'm WA6YXV

Sounds like family to me!

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

I’m trying, like most of us, to get the best combination of things to accomplish what I want to do at minimum of cost and effort:

Make my T/C 357 Maximum barrels useable with chambers I can reach rifling in. I’m interested in maximum flexibility not maximum velocity and I believe the 30-30 or 38-55 cases have plenty of volume for anything in North America… especially steel rams without trying to take my head off.

Make some lever gun conversions to produce guns with a real throat and greater versatility and flexibility with a greater number of bullet types in 35 calibers.

I would like to accomplish this with one chamber reamer but I’m willing to go with 2 reamers if necessary. I’m pretty sure the old 35/30-30 wildcat will get the job done but I’m not quite sure it will clean out the T/C’s 357 Maximum’s chamber and throat completely but it’s worth a try and I don’t see how it could get any worse than the current chamber’s condition. If the 35/30-30 doesn’t get it all it looks like the 350 Maine Guide #1 reamer could follow the 35/30-30 reamer to produce a completely new chamber.

I think the 35/30-30 is the most practical and logical wildcat chambering for 35 caliber cast bullets in 30-30 lever actions.

Dies are my main concern; none of this will get off the ground without dies at a reasonable cost and since RCBS changed hands well… I don’t really want to make die sets too. Since CH4D offers dies for the 35/30-30 it makes my decision easier.

I ordered a 35/30-30 finish reamer with replaceable pilot bushings and a set of “GO” “NOGO” WCF gages to get me started. One pilot bushing for the T/C 357 Rem Max barrels and another for Wind River or Green Mountain 0.357” barrels. (I think the 1:20" twist rate of the Green Mountain barrel might handle 200's ok but 1:16" would be better and 1:14" for 250's).

Now wait 2 months for the reamer, that gives me time to gather up an old Marlin 336 or have one of my Winchester 94's 30-30 barrels recut to 0.357" and order some dies.

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

I wanted to see how my favorite 35 cast bullet for silhouette looked in this 35/30-30 case so I made an expanding mandrel for my Sinclair mandrel body and expanded a few 30-30 cases.

The RCBS 35-200-FN looks like a perfect fit and there’s room for a larger bullet too like the Group Buy 360-220.
The Group Buy 360-180’s may find a home here too.

Left: RBCS 35-200-FN at 2.50” COL

Right: Series of different bullets from left to right:
RCBS 35-200-FN at 2.50” COL
RCBS 35-180-SIL at 2.45” COL
SIERRA 180-SIL at 2.45"
Bear Creek 180-TC
Lyman 358665 160 RNFP


Boomer :Fire:

[No_1]

Those look great. You are going to make the rest of us want to build one. Did you polished those up just for us?

R.


I wanted to see how my favorite 35 cast bullet for silhouette looked in this 35/30-30 case so I made an expanding mandrel for my Sinclair mandrel body and expanded a few 30-30 cases.

The RCBS 35-200-FN looks like a perfect fit and there’s room for a larger bullet too like the Group Buy 360-220 and the Group Buy 360-180’s may find a home here too.

Left: RBCS 35-200-FN at 2.50” COL

Right: Series of different bullets from left to right:
RCBS 35-200-FN at 2.50” COL
RCBS 35-180-SIL at 2.45” COL
SIERRA 180-SIL at 2.45"
Bear Creek 180-TC
Lyman 358665 160 RNFP


Boomer :Fire:

[JDL]

Dad blame it, now y'all have rekindled my lust for a .35/30-30! -JDL

[Grandpa Dolan]

wA6yxv, May I be so bold as to say you might find that 1 in 20 twist a good one for the cast bullet shooting in lever action siljhouette. My experience is the 32 special with its 1 in 16 twist does a good job as far a accuracy is concerned. My 35-30/30 has a 1 in 14 twist. I would have passed on it had it been a 1in12. I will have a barrel re-bored one of these days and a 1 in 18 will be it. Also I found the lyman 358665, with its full rounded nose. best for the first three.35 Rem. I tried many that did not do so good and the Lyman is a plain base. with all the shooting in silhouette gas checks get to be a bore. W6GAL

[6pt-sika]

Mikey and Grandpa ,
I also have the lever silhouette bug :???:

As a matter of fact to have anywhere to shoot the big guns close , I am putting on 3 matches this summer at my club . We won't be NRA sanctioned this year , but if we have a decent turn out we will next year .Also possibly I'll shoot the pistol caliber event as well next year .

At the moment I haven't decide what I'm gonna shoot in the june match .

I've been playing with a Marlin 336CB in 30-30 loaded with Ranch Dogs 30 caliber bullet . But have also been working with three different 444 marlin's shooting Ranch Dogs 285 grain bullet .

But what I'll most likely end up shooting is my old Marlin 1893 in 32-40 or my old Marlin 1895 in 38-56 .Also have an old Marlin 1895 in 40-82 that might get tested again , this one is already set up with a Marble's tang and globe front sight .

Heck might just take my 336CB in 38-55 loaded with the Lyman 264 grain GC bullet :drinks:

Way to many options and not enough time :roll:

[6pt-sika]

Thanks for the heads up on the dies... I'll bet if you ask Dave Manson for the chamber drawing of the 408 Winchester he'll e-mail it to you.

Boomer :Fire:

Mikey , does he have a web page or do you know his e add ?

[6pt-sika]

Mikey never mind ! Did a google search and found his web site and e is on the way [smilie=1:

[Boomer Mikey]

Mikey and Grandpa ,
I also have the lever silhouette bug :???:

Heck might just take my 336CB in 38-55 loaded with the Lyman 264 grain GC bullet :drinks:

Way to many options and not enough time :roll:

The 38-55 is a good caliber. Most of the guys around here are using 357 Magnums for cowboy silhouette and speer 180's (plated bullet) but the rams at the LASC are set properly and will fall with a solid 223 hit.

Last time I shot full size out to 200 meters I used my 45-70 Marlin 1895 Cowboy.

My 45-70 load is 25 grains H4198, RCBS 325 grain plain base sized at 0.459" with a heavy crimp and F210 primer in Winchester cases. This averages 1" to 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards, and one hole groups at 50 yards with my variable apature tang sight and a globe front from the bench. Typically, around 2-1/2" groups off hand at 100.

I haven't done it yet but I really want to use my Winchester 94 30-30/375 Win. conversion next time; (the one in my avatar) my favorite carbine by far.

Like yourself, I have many favorites. I'm working on 444 Marlin loads too... for our 500 meter "ULTRA 500" matches we hold a couple of times each year out here but I don't know if I can handle 45 shots of 444 at 2200 fps in a row.

This 35/30-30 should do well with the 35-200-FN and it's BC of .243 launched at 2000 fps.

Speaking of having fun, we're pulling out for Raton, NM on Sunday headed for the NRA National Long Range Handgun Match. I don't plan to shoot in the match, my handgun silhouette days were in the 80's and 90's; we had a blast going to a match just about every-other-week-end. We're going to visit with all our silhouette family friends during the week-long match, some of which, we've known for 30+ years. The next we're going to the OWSA National Match at the same range (there are 20+ ranges at the NRA National Range) and visit with the Cowboy Bunch. I'll probably shoot some of that and the cowboy silhouette and ULTRA 500 side matches. Most of the Cowboy Shooters are a fun bunch (the ones that don't care about winning).

Boomer :Fire:

Thumbnail of: left to right: 375 Winchester, 35/30-30 (35-30), and 38-55

[Boomer Mikey]

wA6yxv, May I be so bold as to say you might find that 1 in 20 twist a good one for the cast bullet shooting in lever action siljhouette. My experience is the 32 special with its 1 in 16 twist does a good job as far a accuracy is concerned. My 35-30/30 has a 1 in 14 twist. I would have passed on it had it been a 1in12. I will have a barrel re-bored one of these days and a 1 in 18 will be it. Also I found the lyman 358665, with its full rounded nose. best for the first three.35 Rem. I tried many that did not do so good and the Lyman is a plain base. with all the shooting in silhouette gas checks get to be a bore. W6GAL

I agree with you Grandpa Dolan. You may loose a little velocity with the faster twist but you can shoot 250's well.

I ran the twist calculator with an ogive bullet at 250, 200, 180, and 160 grains and a 1:20" twist is too slow for anything larger than 180's. I'm thinking of 1:16" twist rate to stabilize 200's. The RCBS 200 is my bullet of choice. If it doesn't work well I'll try the Saeco 200 TC. I prefer a 60% meplat for a better Ballistic Coefficient.

Are you shooting Cowboy Silhouette or long range rifle silhouette or both?

Boomer :Fire:

[Grandpa Dolan]

Sorri it tock so long to get back Boomer, any how I looked at the "new " 35-30/30 yesterday, filled out all the paper and who knows I may get it to shoot someday. Dang CA gun laws. I only shoot lever guns now Boomer. I quit the long range scope stuff a few years back, which I started shooting in 1973 (first national at Tuson). , BUT I can still see the open sights and love those Levers....& cast boolets...

[6pt-sika]

Mikey , Manson sent me prints for the 35/30-30 and the 408 WInchester .

Think I might have to look into this 408 thing a bit more .

You got any info on it by any chance ?

[6pt-sika]

I have a circa 1965 Marlin "Glanfield" 36G sitting here for rebarreling to 7-30 Waters .

That may get put on hold a bit longer and this doner might be for the 408 WIN [smilie=1:

[Boomer Mikey]

Mikey , Manson sent me prints for the 35/30-30 and the 408 WInchester .

Think I might have to look into this 408 thing a bit more .

You got any info on it by any chance ?

Load From a Disk lists the following:

Case Length 2.030"
OD at Base 0.445"
OD at Mouth 0.430"
Case Capacity (grains of water) 57.327
COL 2.730"

Base diameter looks too large for 30-30 brass with a standard 0.421" base OD.

Weather at RATON was crazy with daily thunderstorms, rain and wind gusts up to 62mph.

Boomer :Fire:

[snowtigger]

Sounds like my .280 Rem story.

I always liked the Jap rifle. My dad had one when i was growing up. His was .308 Win.
I decided I wanted to build a .280 Remington on a 7.7 Jap. I found a "Bubba'd" 7.7 for less than $100.00. shipped.
I started looking around for a barrel, stock , gunsmith ,sights. etc. THEN I went to gunbroker and,lo and behold, there was my rifle, all done, new barrel, stock, re-blued, everything made to order. EVEN HAS A SCOPE!!
Price? About the same as having the work done minus the shipping, plus, no waiting.
This thing is a tack driver!!
The lesson is, always check GB and other sites before leaping.
PS; I now have a "Bubba'd" 7.7 Jap in my safe. I bought dies, brass bullets and loaded 50. I have yet to shoot it. May keep it as a "loaner".

[Boomer Mikey]

I ordered a set of dies from CH4D for 35/30-30 and a tapered "M" die expanding plug to expand 30-30 cases to 35 caliber and changed the shoulder angle of the reamer to 15 degrees to match the shoulder angle of the dies and the parent cartridge (30-30) in addition to making the base cartridge diameter 0.420" to provide a maximum of 0.004" - 0.005" case clearance in the chamber with my new Winchester brass.

I received my Load From A Disk program today and ran the load calculations for RCBS 35-200-FN bullets.

TC 10" barrels can reach 2000 fps with 90% loading density.
TC 14" barrels can reach 2100 fps with 85% loading density.
20" Carbine barrels can reach 2225 fps with 85% loading density.

At 2000 fps from a 10" TC you would have 1847 pounds of energy at the muzzle and 968 pounds of energy at 200 Yards. This sounds like plenty of power for a 10" handgun.

At 2225 fps from a 20" carbine you would have 2286 pounds of energy at the muzzle and 1028 pounds of energy at 250 yards.

All of this at normal 30-30 pressure levels with 35 grains of powder or less while equaling or exceeding 35 Remington factory load ballistics and the flexibility to use larger bullets.

BTW 250's can reach 2000 fps with H322 at 95% loading density providing 2220 pounds of energy at the muzzle and 1282 pounds of energy at 250 yards from a 20" carbine.

200 and 250 grain bullets from a 20" carbine at 2200 fps and 2000 fps respectively have a Taylor Indexes of 20 and 21 at 100 yards making the little 35/30-30 suitable for Elk and as effective as a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets at 100 yards.

This is looking better all the time.

Boomer :Fire:

[Grandpa Dolan]

Well Guys The 35-30 Imp. that I found on gun broker has found a place in the "first" Gun safe.. It took a while to get the bugs out,, most of which I made, , but man does that old lever gun shoot lead. 14 grains of SR4759 and the Lyman358665. plain base. It shot 4 rounds into 2inches at 100 Yds on the bench and thats better than I can see with Peep sights.. 1350 Ft/Sec "estimated".the rest of the amo.was saved for off-hand at Silhouetts...The case looks like a rimmed 35 Rem. That brings up the only Neg. part of that wild cat. The neck is just a little shorter than the 35 Rem. But I'll live with that, considering how it shoots.
The 14/4759/358665 was also used in the 35 REm with good results. If anyone has a good load for the 35 with plain base lead I would sure like to try it..Thanks and take time to play,,, Grandpa Dolan....

[Boomer Mikey]

Well Guys The 35-30 Imp. that I found on gun broker has found a place in the "first" Gun safe.. It took a while to get the bugs out,, most of which I made, , but man does that old lever gun shoot lead. 14 grains of SR4759 and the Lyman358665. plain base. It shot 4 rounds into 2inches at 100 Yds on the bench and thats better than I can see with Peep sights.. 1350 Ft/Sec "estimated".the rest of the amo.was saved for off-hand at Silhouetts...The case looks like a rimmed 35 Rem. That brings up the only Neg. part of that wild cat. The neck is just a little shorter than the 35 Rem. But I'll live with that, considering how it shoots.
The 14/4759/358665 was also used in the 35 REm with good results. If anyone has a good load for the 35 with plain base lead I would sure like to try it..Thanks and take time to play,,, Grandpa Dolan....

Good deal Grandpa Dolan,

I tried making cases from 30-30 brass and the cases were 0.055" short so I'm making my cases from 38-55 brass. I'll need to trim them to length about 0.020". I also made a few minor changes to the reamer design and renamed the wildcat 35-55


I look forward to hearing how youdo at your next match.

Have fun,

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

My custom Dave Manson 35-55 reamer and go, no-go gages were waiting for me when I got home last night. I hope to poke a hole in one or both of my 357 Maximum Contender barrels this weekend and fire-form some cases.

Boomer :Fire:

[Jon K]

Boomer,

Going to LASC for the Extravaganza Match? If so bring the 35-55, I'd like to see it.

Jon

[Boomer Mikey]

I did poke some holes in the old 357 Rem Max barrels and fooled around with some bullets.

Left to right: Lyman 358665, 360-180-PB Group Buy mold, RCBS 180 SIL, RCBS 35-200-FN, 360-220 Group Buy mold. Lying down, 200 Hornady.

Cases made with 30-30 brass are 0.065" short but will work fine.

Boomer :Fire:

Thumbnails:

[Onlymenotu]

[smilie=s: been quitely following long on this one Mikey , Keeps us in formed on how it shoots...... looks to have been a great project gun :drinks:

:roll: [smilie=1: man that picture realy show's off the monster meplate on that 360-180 gb don't it ;).... that thing ought'a hit like a freight train

[Boomer Mikey]

[smilie=s: been quitely following long on this one Mikey , Keeps us in formed on how it shoots...... looks to have been a great project gun :drinks:

:roll: [smilie=1: man that picture realy show's off the monster meplate on that 360-180 gb don't it ;).... that thing ought'a hit like a freight train

Interesting,

I was thinking the same thing when I loaded it. I've been using the Sierra 170 JHC for over 20 years in my "Hammer of Thor" self defense loads and 357 Magnum hunting sidearm load over 15 grains of H110 but when the 360-180-GC molds get here I may need to change bullets.

It's impressive! 45 2.1 did a great job on this.

There are many design features in this bullet that aren't apparent until you start loading it in the various revolvers and rifles.

35 Remington owners are going to LOVE this bullet design, especially the gas check version.

I'm stoked! I may need to go to the LASC Extravaganza over the labor day weekend to try this out on the 200 meter rams.

Boomer :Fire:

Thumbnail of the Boolits showing the meplats

[Boomer Mikey]

This seems to be a good time to to make to make some comparisons.

How do my 357/358 cartridges compare to each other?

Left to right:
357 Magnum @ 1.675" COL fits Ruger Vaquero 15Grains H110, 1350fps.
360 Dan Wesson Magnum @ 1.800" COL fits DW360 DA Revolver 18.5 Grains of H110 1500fps.
357 Rem Maximum @ 2.025" COL for 10" TC Contender 21.5 Grains H110, 1925fps. (can't touch rifling)

35-55 @ 2.475" COL for 10" TC Contender 35.5 grains H4198, 2175fps.
(compare to 35 Remington 10" TC Contender 38.5 grains H4198, 2225fps. I don't have one... just a comparison)

None of these loads exceed recommended pressure standards with 180 grain cast bullets and I'm using the seated bullet length for the 360-180-PB group buy bullet in my guns. I believe there may be a better powder combination for the 35-55 than H4198 like H322 or H335 but I can't find any data; I'll need to develop some from starting loads for the 35 Remington.

Boomer :Fire:

Thumbnail of the 360-180-PB loaded in my cases.

[Boomer Mikey]

I shot these back in September with some 200 RCBS and 180 grain RCBS cast bullets with 30 grains of H322... BRUTAL! is the only word to describe the 10" Contender.

The 14" Contender was manageable but not something I would want to shoot a lot.

Accuracy was good at 200 meters but I quickly got tired of it beating me up.

This would be a fine cartridge in a levergun though... maybe next year.

Boomer :Fire:

[blasternaz]

Many years ago, (30+) when I was still in northern WI, a local gun shop made a habit of converting Winny 30-30's to "2 x 4's". Blown out 30-30 brass using .40 cal bullets. Mad a great woods gun for the timbered reaches of northern WI and the Upper Penisula. Just some backgrund on that "Maine" cartridge... vbg

It worked very well, from all the reports we got, both on deer and Black bear. With the barrels cropped to 16 - 18" they were well balanced and handy.

That 35/30-30 sounds like the easiest way to get rid of that looong throat. Let us know how it works out, please.

Blasternaz