BPLube

[PuppetZ]

Hi gents and sorry if this has been asked before. I have this 45/70 rifle that I used to shoot with smokeless but finally was able to lay my hands on some goex FFg. Big question is, do I absolutely need a dedicated lube for this particular application or could I use my already lubed boolits to try it out. My current lube is made out of beeswax, vaseline, engine smoke treatment and ATM fluid.

Thanks

[hickstick_10]

Try it!!! I rencently waved goodbye to smokeless in my 45-70 sharps and am quite pleased, you wil like it alot.

Im fooling around with the beeswax and tallow mixes, but anything greasy works to an extent.

Cant be worse then when I tried using lee liquid alox!!!!:brokenima

[Chicken Thief]

If you shoot little and clean often you'll do, BUT!
Anything petrochemic and BP will lead to severe/hard fouling.
So:
Beeswax
Veg oil
Veg fat
Lanolin

Is the way to go, unless you just buy a stick or two from those who makes.

[Kraschenbirn]

Depends upon how many boolits you've got on hand with your old lube and how much you're planning to shoot. If you've got just a few boolits already lubed for smokeless, go ahead and shoot 'em but figure on swabbing your bore every few rounds. Once they're gone, switch to a BP lube...either a homemade like Emmert's lube (run a search here for the formula) or a pre-mixed commercial like SPG. BTW, Emmert's also works just fine with smokeless (below 1300-1400 fps), too.

Bill

[hickstick_10]

Theres a pretty good thread somewhere on the shiloh forum were alot of the guys WERE using petroleum goop in their lubes.

Its worth a check there as well.

['74 sharps]

You might try shooting a few to see how difficult it is to clean. If the barrel cleans up easily, you should be good to go.

[Kermit1945]

I don't use any petroleum products in any of my guns that shoot BP. Learned from long experience. Stay away from it.

[PuppetZ]

Well shot them today over 63gn of goex FFg. I Prelubed the bore with sheep wool wax(that's what it says on the can....) and shot 4, ran a few patches soaked with rubbing alc. shot a few more and gave it a good cleaning at the end of the day with MAP cleaner. Bore came out squeaky clean.

It was my forst time ever with BP. I was damn surprised at the sheer amount of crude it would leave in the bore even after 1 shot! Hot diggidy, I'll be damned if I ever saw a dirtier barrel. Almost had a stroke when I ran the 1st patch through and scales of crude fell of from the muzzle!

In the end I had a lot of fun shooting that thing. The reactions from the other people that were there and, I guess, never saw anyone make so much smoke were priceless. When I explained what it was, they gave me the "weird" look. LOL! I think I may be in love with the smell of the thing. And with BP, the 45/70 recoil is suprisingly mild.

[chuebner]

Real BP in a Sharps is addictive. Smokeless is just a passing fad anyway.

Charlie

[John Boy]

I don't use any petroleum products in any of my guns that shoot BP. Learned from long experience. Stay away from it. Kermit, don't be too hasty because I do ... it's called Paraffin and is 40% of my lube mix. And if you can do this with your BPCR reloads with no petroleum products in the lube - show me better pictures
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0

Paraffin wax is a mixture of alkanes with a carbon number more than about 22.It is obtained from crude oil by distillation then purified by solvent refining.
The technical wording:
The simplest paraffin molecule is that of methane, CH4, a gas at room temperature. Heavier members of the series, such as octane, C8H18, and mineral oil appear as liquids at room temperature. The solid forms of paraffin, called paraffin wax, are from the heaviest molecules from C20H42 to C40H82.

[DaveCampbell]

I'm sure that many of you guys have more experience in this than I do, but I am using beeswax, peanut oil with a dash of original STP in my BP guns and have had no problems with cleaning or accuracy. In fact, with my CAS guns cleaning is easier than with smokeless, primarily because the loads are mild and leading is non-existant.

[PuppetZ]

Well my petrol based lube worked pretty much flawlessly so I'm not changing it. Maybe if I were shooting a lot without swabbing the bore but right now, I shoot a group, swab, rince an repeat.

Although I dont really have previous experience with BP, I didn't notice very hard crude lining the bore. There is a lot of it but it come right of with a patch rolled around a bronze brush, soaked with brake cleaner. When I'm done, I run 2 patch of MAP then brake cleaner until it come out clean, then oil it with my mutton wool wax stuff. Seems to work satisfactorily.

I noticed something, ask a question about cleaning or lubing and you get as many different answer as there are people answering. Conclusion, almost anything will work.....

[cajun shooter]

Well PuppetZ, There are tons of material on why a BP gun should not be fired with your lube but if your content then by all means keep doing it your way.
This site has several shooters who have 30 or more years of shooting BP rifles with the correct lube and have won National Championships.
In case you don't know it, the correct lube also has to do with where that rifle will shoot.
Reading some books like the BP CARTRIDGE RELOADING PRIMER by Steve Garbe and Mike Venturino and many others may help you out some.

[Don McDowell]

Puppet your lube recipe isn't that far off of what alot of folks use in their own recipes.
According to Ned Roberts Schuetzen rifle book, you could just use the beeswax and vaseline 50/50, use more beeswax in warmer weather to keep the lube from running.
As Cajun shooter said when you get down to getting serious about the best accuracy you may want to try different lubes as they can make a difference to your rifle.

[Baja_Traveler]

I use my own lube recipe given me by an old timer at LASC, it works really well for BP in all conditions we experience here in So. Cal (meaning I havent tried it in the snow).
It's 1 pound of Beeswax, 1/2 pound of Lanolin and 1/2 pound of vegetable oil - by weight. Simple as that, and it works on all my black powder loads from 45-70 to the .22...

[PuppetZ]

I really doubt my BP shooting will get anything near "serious". As far as I'm aware, I'm the only guy that use the real thing around here and that includes the muzzleloader guys. So BPCR competition is far from my mond for now. I do this more because I can and I find it funny to see the reactions of ppl around when that thing goes off.

My rifle is by no means a multi-thousand dollar sharps. It's a simple H&R BC. Seems to love the 457-450-F from Lee. My eyes are not so good so I sighted it at 50yds and I manage to keep the groups under 1.5 inch from the bench.

Accuracy is not a big problem with that lube, cleaning is quite easy and I can do it often. I simply see no reasons to fret over these details of little importance for what I do.

Thanks for all the comments. You are all very helpful as always.

:cast_boolits:

[montana_charlie]

Your lube may or may not have materials in it that make the (petroleum-caused) 'asphalt' which we all try to avoid. The ATM may be synthetic, and I haven't any idea what the 'smoke treatment' consists of (or how it could possibly aid in a bullet lube).

But, when you wipe between shots with 'brake cleaner' and a bronze brush ... I suspect you take out everything that might be harmful (or beneficial) to your barrel.

You remind me of a neighbor, here. The rest of us in the area agree that he does everything absolutely wrong ... but he still manages to bring up a really decent alfalfa crop.
All we can do is shake our heads and congratulate him on his expertise ...

CM

[Naphtali]

Hi gents and sorry if this has been asked before. I have this 45/70 rifle that I used to shoot with smokeless but finally was able to lay my hands on some goex FFg. Big question is, do I absolutely need a dedicated lube for this particular application or could I use my already lubed boolits to try it out. My current lube is made out of beeswax, vaseline, engine smoke treatment and ATM fluid.

Thanks
My black powder shooting is muzzleloader only. The closest I get to BPCR is shooting my .72-caliber Pedersoli Kodiak Safari double rifle. I mallet load lubed conical bullets.

I pan lube bullets with SPG. Load is 775-grain bullet (two lube grooves), 110 grains FFg, CCI #11 magnum cap. I can shoot 16 rounds per barrel (all I can take) without cleaning the barrel. I detect no deterioration of accuracy or consistency between shot #1 and #16. Accuracy from bench unsupported is (right-left only) holes slightly overlapping at 50 yards, two-shot group expands to three inches, give or take, at 85 yards. I have not shot beyond this distance.

I expect the block of SPG to last more than 5000 shots.

Hope this helps.

[PuppetZ]

But, when you wipe between shots with 'brake cleaner' and a bronze brush ... I suspect you take out everything that might be harmful (or beneficial) to your barrel.

You suspect right. I think that's what is probably happening.

I'm not claiming that I'm an expert nor do I suggest anyone try what I do, it's just that for my particular application, it does good enough, without me having to make things too complicated. Used whatever I had on hand as far as boolits and lube goes. Made myself a little stick with mark for the crimpe groove depth of the boolit, filled the case with BP 1/16"-3/32" over the marks and seated a boolit firmly on top of that and went to shoot. No wads,no nothing. It's not a 1000yds competition load but it'll satisfy my taste for smelly smoke for a good while.

This gun is just so much more pleasant to shoot with BP.

[Lead pot]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148746

There you go 62 pages but sort through the BS:bigsmyl2:

[Buzzard II]

I use SPG and it works very well! I also just switched from Goex to Swiss. A lot more money, but it is so much cleaner burning and I find it more accurate. Just my .02. Good shooting!
Bob

[GuzziRider]

I use SPG and it works very well! I also just switched from Goex to Swiss. A lot more money, but it is so much cleaner burning and I find it more accurate. Just my .02. Good shooting!
Bob

I went to SPG years ago for both BP and Smokless cast loads. Its a good lube and easy to obtain. If you buy it in bulk its reasonably priced to use. For me its not worth the hassel to make my own. If you are a person just starting out its a great place to start. Some of the guys I shoot BP with like to play around with making their own but to me its just easier to get it off the shelf.

[TXGunNut]

For my purposes SPG works great. No mess in my kitchen, no ingredient quests, just load it into my Lyman sizer and apply. Cleanup is so easy it's hard to believe, just a few passes with patches wet w/ moose milk or Windex w/ vinegar do an awesome job. Then a dry patch or two and one last patch with bore butter and I'm done.
Some folks make their own lubes around here and they work better for them, makes for interesting reading.

[TXGunNut]

I use SPG and it works very well! I also just switched from Goex to Swiss. A lot more money, but it is so much cleaner burning and I find it more accurate. Just my .02. Good shooting!
Bob

Have you tried KIK, Bob? It may not be as clean as Swiss but it seems very close to me. Price is pretty attractive as well.

[bigted]

what a fun post. dont know whether there was a question or not but here is a feller that is having fun and not breakin the bank doin it! im with charlie here as in you seem to be doin everythin a bit wrong but who can argue with your fun factor and when n if you want or desire to try for better accuracy then you can glean from all the advice you will find with any question.

as for your cleaning science...i think you are using some pretty harsh chemicals when it is not called for as plain dish soapy water cleans just as good and does no harm to the pores in the metal that have tiny lube particals kinda trapped. but you wash EVERYTHING out with your process...but if your happy then who am i to call your routene wrong.

just keep havin fun...thats what its all about and when the fun starts to dull in its luster then go back to where you had the best time as this is what the doctor called for.

[PuppetZ]

Well, I agree that the MAP cleaner is total overkill and I discontinued use because it caused flash rust even if left in the barrel for a few seconds. Toom much oxygenated compound. Since, I've been experimenting with a 50/50 mix of 99% isopropanol and murphy's oil soap. I do simply because soapy water freeze in the winter and that's a problem. The new mix seems to do a fair job and should be quite freeze resistant. I'll have to leave some in my freezer to confirm.

I'm really having a blast shooting the 45/70. I bought it expressely for BPCR. Wanted to experiment with it. This weekend, After shooting a few at 50 yds, I moved the target to 100 yds without changing the sights. Trying to guesstimate to correct hold-over was a blast. Seeing the boolits go right through the bullseye was even better.

Oh, and there was a question. In the OP I asked if I absolutely had to lube with a BP dedicated lube. I got a little carried away and lubed all of my 1st boolit batch with my lube I use for my '06. I was advised to try it. It shot good and wasn't very hard to clean. So I simply didn't see any reason to mix a batch of lube just for that application. The one I have already does a fair job and don't cause the problems I was told it would so..........

[bigted]

i totally concure with the freezing water mix...this is the primary reasson i went in search for a load that i could shoot as much as i wanted without the un-nesasary need for swabbing or blowtubing and i found my answer to my satisfaction for the cold doins i embrace here in the arctic conditions.

the lube question is yes ...in my opinion... for the best outcome you need the "special" lube made of natural stuff like vegi oil,,,rendered fat,,,bee wax,,,vegi shortening,,,lard,,,and so on. this will aid in the repeatable shots you seem to be in search of and delete the need for such toxic cleaning solutions. the most toxic cleaner i use in my bp guns is ballistol mixed with water which cleans and oils at the same time...then i dry inside n out and oil with a spray oil like rem oil...thats just my take that seems to work in a most exelent way...gleaned my procedures from others here with tons more experience then me.