Long Range 22RF

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Our club has insituted a long range facility for 22RF.

Our closest sihouette is set at 175 yards. From there we work out too 415 yards in seven steps.

This is challenging shooting with the light little 40-grain pills!

I shoot a Shuttelworth Stevens 44 1/2 - peep sights only - and we shoot strickly off the cross stick rest.

My question is; Which 22RF ammunition is the best for such an endevor?

Good evening,
Forrest

[jh45gun]

What ever is the most accurate in YOUR GUN. I would try different brands to see what your gun likes. Once you find a brand that shoots well try to get a bunch of that same lot.

[Hamish]

"try to get a bunch of that same lot"

Ahem-buy as much of that same lot as can be done without bankrupting yourself.

You're welcome:bigsmyl2:

[uscra112]

That sounds like a gas ! And you have the right kind of rifle !

Obviously ammunition that is highly consistent is the key. Variance in bullet weight, priming, powder charge, etc., etc., etc. will all give you variance in point of impact. The most consistent of the high-energy ammo that I've weighed, spindled, folded and mutilated so far has been CCI MiniMags. Yet to get any Auto Match. Wolf Match is even more consistent than MinMags, but you may need more energy to knock down a metal plate at those ranges.

Fit the the chamber will be something to think about. How did Shuttleworth chamber your Stevens? Good and tight, one hopes. Diameter .2235 to .2245 max. If it's got a "Bentz" chamber, first of all shame on them - that's a chamber for semi-autos, not single shots. Measuring a few fired cases will give you some idea. If it's .226, it's a "Bentz, and you will want to think about swaging the bullets a bit bigger, which has produced positive results for me when shooting MiniMags in a sloppy old Ruger 10/22.

I also weight-sort to cull out the 2% to 4% of the MiniMags that are more than 0.2 grains from the average. Tedious at best, especially since digital scales I can afford are barely able to discern 0.1 grains. I have a 50.0-grain check weight that is placed in the pan before and after every cartridge is weighed, and I'm re-zeroing the scale every couple of minutes. Still, it makes a difference.

Never ever dreamed I'd get so involved with the "lowly" .22 rimfire.


Phil

[taminsong]

I have done some testing with my 1451 Anschutz up to 175 meters.

Hitting targets 3/4 inch big up to 125meters is manageable but sometimes I can make good groups when the wind is in my favor, but at 175 meters my enemy is the wind. First shot goes to the right and I adjust my windage and then the wind stops so my second shot goes to the left, :)

My main goal was to know how many MILS to dial in my scope. Which is very rewarding when I do actual hunts. Shooting wild doves in the cornfields is very exciting when I know the range, if not, its either shoot high or low!

So far, I only test two ammo: Remington Target and CCI standard velocity.

Conclusion, I will stay away from Remington from now on!

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

Today I took the 44 1/2 up to the hill-top range in the morning.

The weather here in previous shooting has been quite hot - running to the high 80s and lower 90s. Today it was pleasently cool at 60 - 65 when I began shooting.

It didn;t take long for this cool temperature to make itself felt: By the time I began shooting at the 275 yard "Close Round" I had to set the sights 6 - 7 minutes higher than the setting that worked at warmer temperatures. By the time I got out to the 415 yard Diamond I needed 11 minutes additional elevation to get on the steel.

This is due, as we know, to the lessor Density Altitude that comes with lower temperatures.

I have seen it many times in the Buffalo Rifle shooting but never to this marked degree!

The current Lot of CCI Standard Velocity seems to be working very well: In the calm conditions at the 170 yard "Little Round" I got a good 6-shot group of around 2". This, fired on steel is not redily recordable but I remain encouraged.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Jack Stanley]

Forrest , what is the midrange trajectory when shooting four hundred fifteen yards ?

Jack

[Jon K]

Forrest,

What size targets are you shooting on this course?

Interesting report...what kind of conistancy are you getting @200-400.

I shoot a CPA 44 1/2, and have found Aguila Target(blue box) to perform well, right out of the box...no weighing, no measuring. This ammo also performs well in 3 other relined .22's I have. The only thing I found to group better is Lapua Midas L, BUT rings Rams @200(2/5 size)

Waiting to hear more, kepp us informed,
Jon

[FAsmus]

Jack;

I have not calculated anythng exact, but, judging by the time-of-flight (about 1 1/2 seconds) I'd estimate something around 40 feet above line-of-sight.

In the big-bore long range shooting we shoot the 834 yard distance and the time-of-flight is long enough to move to the spotting scope and spot your own bullet arrive on target.

In this shooting there is nowhere nearly time enough to do that.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Jon;

I have not measured the silhouettes - and I should.

For now I can say that they seem Plenty big when you're out there painting them. They are also large enough to see well through the iron sights. However, when the wind huffs & puffs as it does they seem to jump out of the bullet's pathway rather easily.

When I was out last time in initially calm near-perfect conditions I was able to stay "in the white" of the targets on out to 375 yards with the CCI Std Velocity ammunition.

At 415 yards the condition became variable and, as I was shooting solo I could not spot misses. ~ I never "found" the steel due to this problem.

However, in the past, shooting with other men this distance has not been any rougher than most any other "guess the wind" problems we've seen out there on the fring line. ~ In other words, so far the CCI seems to be doing well enough to perhaps buy another 500 rounds.

Just for the fun of it though, where do you find Aguila Target?

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Excess650;

Ah!

What was the difference you saw in Hi-Velocity and Std?

Good evening,
Forrest

[Jon K]

Forrest,

I have been getting the Aguila from Cheaper than Dirt $3.01/bx

Jon

[MT Chambers]

I just read, on another site, a new record for score on 200 yd. target at "Etna Green", 245-8X, CPA rifle, Unertl scope, Fiocchi ammo!

[Jack Stanley]

Forrest , thanks for the estimate . The reason I was asking is the shooting you are doing sounds like something I was trying to talk a friend into just recently .

We were talking about the Billy Dixon shot and I suggested he try to reduce the range and set up a match for twenty-two rimfire rifles . Since he lives on Nantucket island he said he'd run out of island first even with tha reduced range . I thought that maybe four hundred and fifty yards with 22LR might give a similar trajectory as the fifty two and a half inch has at fifteen hundred . A mathematician I'm not and I can't even fake it either :mrgreen:

Jack

[FAsmus]

Jon;

You say; I have been getting the Aguila from Cheaper than Dirt $3.01/bx

Me: That is wonderful stuff - but Where do you get it?

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Jack;

You say: Thanks for the estimate. The reason I was asking is the shooting you are doing sounds like something I was trying to talk a friend into just recently..

Me: Sure, long range with the 22RF is right in there for challenging, inexpensive fun. And the chance to get it done inside a reasonable rifle range given today's congestion is a real plus.

We have plenty of room out here but everyone is tired of the tedious procedures necessary to cast/reload the big stuff.

As I have become familiar with this shooting I believe it could be first-rate enjoyment even with only 300 yards or so available. The shooting at our 375 and 415 yard distances shows a certain "break" ~ 375 is feasible, 415 is pressing the envelope enough that pretty much any significant wind turns it into shear guess-work.

~ Kind of the Billy Dixon shot ...

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Jon K]

Forrest,

www.cheaperthandirt.com (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com)

Jon

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks Forrest , that narrows it down even better . the boys on the island might have some fun with this .

Jack

[DanWalker]

Forrest,
Sounds like a heck of a good time. Where is this range at?

[FAsmus]

Excess650;

You say: HV had less vertical stringing.

Me; Yes, we have seen that too but Std seems to drift somewhat less in the same condition.

Thanks for the post, good morning,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Dan;

You say; Sounds like a heck of a good time. Where is this range?

Me: I live in Sheridan, Wyoming. We have center-fire long range targets to 1000 yards.

The RF is a new deal and thus-far the distances are still estimates - but fun.

Good evening,
Forrest

[DanWalker]

I live in Casper. just may have to stop up that way some time to beat up on some steel with ya.

[dualsport]

.22 Mag allowed?

[4060MAY]

FASMUS
I get Aquila from the CMP
http://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=AMC

[4060MAY]

Ram at 200yds with Aquila ammo
Uberti lowall in 22lr
Hoke rear sight, Pedersoli front sight w/aperture
Cross sticks no rear rest
switching winds about 4-6mph...lots of Mirage


plastic table cloth with ram spray painted on

[FAsmus]

Dan;


You say: I live in Casper. just may have to stop up that way some time to beat up on some steel with ya.

Me; That would be a great deal of fun!

We normally shoot the RF course on Saturday morning as a group. I sometimes shoot solo on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

PM me if you see the chance to come by - I'll work something out.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Dualsport;

You ask; .22 Mag allowed?

Me; You know, the question never came up.

I'd suppose that it would be feasable but not encouraged for the shooting done here in town.

We chose the 22RF for ease of shooting, economy of ammunition and the soft report of the rifles - never needing plugs or muffs. In all of these the 22 Mag presses the envolpe.

You, of course, may do what ever you wish. Here I'm sure we'll stick with regualr 22RF.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

4060MAY;

You share: Ram at 200yds with Aquila ammo Uberti lowall in 22RF, Hoke rear sight, Pedersoli front sight w/aperture Cross sticks no rear rest switching winds about 4-6mph...lots of Mirage.

Me; Well that is about what we do.

The deal is, though, to shoot steel silhouettes because of the (almost childish) joy that comes back as the silhouette rings when hit.

This sensation is enhanced as the distance to each target increases. I mean ~ when you hit the 415 yard diamond in challenging conditions the sound that comes back to the firing line when you hit it is a wondeful thing.

Good evening,
Forrest

[4060MAY]

We are shooting steel, hunter pistol targets
Chickens 50yds offhand
Pigs 100yds sticks
Turkeys 150yds sticks
Rams 200yds sticks

ALA NRA BPCR 22LR, rules

I have hit a full size ram at 500M with a 22, took a whole box


this is just a practice target because I am not allowed to shoot steel at this range

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

One of our members brought out his lazer-rangefinder he other day and we got the "Official" distances of all the 22RF silhouettes.

1. "Near Round" 135 yds
2. "Pig" 187 yds
3. "Sm Diamnd" 217 yds
4. "Ram" 266 yds
5. "Sm Rectgle" 290 yds
6. "Near Rnd" 324 yds
7. "Far Rnd" 371 yds
8. "Big Diamnd" 411 yds.

You will have noted that none of these distances are "standard" or round numbers.. we do that to keep things interesting. (and for appropriate back-stops)

On Saturday I was first at the range - this means that I have designated myself to paint all the silhouettes .. it is a semi-long walk up several hills and down a few draws. I and Ginger did the trip. She can't really help, having no hands she just spends the distance sniffing around for rabbits, enjoying the trip out and back.

My shooting went well but wound up pretty much proving that Standard Velocity ammunition really DOES have a high/low problem built into it somehow;

At anything beyond the 290 yd target unexplainable high/low misses were seen in the calm condition. Up closer than that the CCI Std ammunition did very well.

The other fellows are doing very well with Federal "Auto Match" Hi-Velocity. I'm going to go get some too.

Good morning,
Forrest

[fecmech]

Any ideas on why HV .22 ammo would have less vertical dispersion than std vel.?
It would seem to me as long as velocity was uniform it wouldn't matter, just more clicks up on the sight. I'm not arguing about it, just wondering why.

[FAsmus]

Fecmech;

I wish I knew.

My ammunition has been CCI Standard Velocity thus far - as I said I'll be trying some Federal "22 Auto Match" when I get the bucks to go buy some.

I wish I had 'Care Free' money enough to try some primo Eley RF Match. I found about 35 rounds left in an old box back a few weeks ago and it did very well. ~ I don't know what it goes for now, but it was plenty back 5 - 6 years ago when I bought it.

Good shooting to you,
Forrest

[uscra112]

Try some Wolf Match, (not Ultra Match). It can be ordered from :

http://www.championshooters.com/

I'm lucky to live close enough that I can drive there, but they ship for reasonable prices.

It's made in Germany, and has been pretty consistent for me.

[FAsmus]

Uscra112;

Thanks for the post.

I went there and - most importantly - found out that they may send me 22RF ammunition without a worry about adding a Hazmat fee!

This combined with the wide selection of bands and quality of RF available is going to keep things interesting for many months to come.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Silver Eagle]

Have you ran the rounds over a chrony to see how big the velocity spread is? With rounds vertically stringing it sounds like a velocity issue. This might be why the standard velocity CCI's are performing accectably well at the "shorter" ranges.
You might want to check into barrel heating as well. As the barrel heats up or gets "seasoned" the point of impact may change.
At these ranges for a .22 all variables need to be taken into account.
Do some reading over at the benchrest forums and see what technniques they are using. A lot of them should apply here as well. Items such as cartridge weight and rim thickness sorting come to mind.

[FAsmus]

Silver Eagle;

You ask; Have you ran the rounds over a chronograph to see how big the velocity spread is? With rounds vertically stringing it sounds like a velocity issue.

F: Well, no.

I have a chronograph but don't use it much. You're right in saying that the vertical dispersion must be due to velocity inconsistency. I had the same idea but instead of an electronic measurement I chose a calm day and fired at long range. The high/low splits convinced me that Standard Velocity has problems – even if I do not wind up with a Standard Deviation number to look at.

SE: This might be why the standard velocity CCI's are performing acceptably well at the "shorter" ranges.

F: The Standard CCIs do well at the closer ranges – say out to 270 yards or so. But even at the distances where they show vertical dispersion they show less sensitivity to condition as compared to the Hi-Velocity ammunition as is being used by the shooters to my left and my right on the firing line.

SE: You might want to check into barrel heating as well.

F: The biggest source of heat here is the sun. In the direct sunshine things do get hot – but – so far my rifle has shown no leading at all.

SE: As the barrel heats up or gets "seasoned" the point of impact may change.

F: I know about seasoning and all. Thus far it seems quite transient – going to stability within just a few rounds.

SE: At these ranges for a .22 all variables need to be taken into account.
Do some reading over at the benchrest forums and see what techniques they are using. A lot of them should apply here as well. Items such as cartridge weight and rim thickness sorting come to mind.

F: None of us have gone to the trouble of measuring cartridge weight or rim thickness as do the benchrest boys. The reason for this is that our shooting is not from the bench and deals almost entirely with condition estimation. ~ That is, everyone's rifle will shoot well enough to hit all the targets all the time .. IF we dial in the corrections for current conditions!

Good evening,
Forrest

[Silver Eagle]

One other thing to notice: At these ranges the bullets leaving the muzzle supersonic will be slowing down to below sonic on the way. This transonic shift will affect the bullets flight.
Not sure if any 22LR is going to stay supersonic all the way to the target at these ranges. Manufacturer data should tell you where they are going transonic.
Not sure if that is of help but, it is a point to consider when choosing ammunition.

Even if you are not shooting from a bench, it still might be a good test to weight sort a box of ammo and check the effects.

It definitely sounds like a fun and challenging experience.

[FAsmus]

Silver Eagle;

The deal about shooting through the transonic speeds is well known here ~ and the best reason that Std Velocity shoots with less drift than the Hi-Velocity 22RF does.

It does seem to me that the hi/low split is more toublesome than increased drift. I bought some Hi-Velocity ammunition yesterday and will be giving it a test-run in my rifle this coming Saturday.

SE; I'm not sure if any 22LR is going to stay supersonic all the way to the target at these ranges. Manufacturer data should tell you where they are going transonic.

F: Standard Velocity is listed @ 1040 ft/sec on the box. This is sub-sonic at sea level on a Standard Day but slightly supersonic here at the Density Altitude of 6000 feet.

In short, I don't think they are supersonic at anything past 100 yards. The Hi-Velocity stuff - well - it only starts out about 100 - 150 ft/sec faster anyway and those little 35 - 40 grain pills sure aren't going to hold their speed for long!

SE; Even if you are not shooting from a bench, it still might be a good test to weight sort a box of ammo and check the effects.

F: I might just do that. It might show some interesting data if nothing else ~ Find a light cartridge, shoot it and see if it impacts low for example.

SE: It definitely sounds like a fun and challenging experience.

F: Inexpensive too.

Good morning,
Forrest

[**oneshot**]

Wolf match target does great at long range. I've shot it out to 300yds with good results.

[crossdraw]

This thread is incredibily interesting. I've never heard of anyone actually shooting .22 beyond 150 yards, accurately. (Though, I've never researched it before.)

I'd like to see photos of the rifles being used and scopes. I might have to try something new with my 22. I only have access up to about 300 but I'll try it.

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

I did go buy a 325 round box of bulk Federal "22 Auto-Match" the other day.

On Saturday, as I hoped, the WX was good and I tried it out for the first time.

I worked it through all distances, from 135 yards on out to the 411 yard "Big Diamond".

The rifle grouped well on the 135 yard target but seemed to loose its mind at the 187 Yard "Pig" - tossing uncalled flyers in the calm condition. I was discouraged but didn't give up.

I worked up to the 217 yard "Diamond" and it seemed that the "seasoning" of the rifle with new ammunition fell into place and things settled down to very good shooting.

This continued on out to the "Far Round" at 371 yards. I was and am pleased.

The final distance, our "Big Diamond" at 411 yards was tougher, mostly because the wind had gotten up. I got on the steel with a subtantialy lower elevation than the CCI Standard Velocity needs but the wind required about 28 minutes of adjustment to get hits. ~ That is about 9 feet of windage correction at 400 yards folks!

The wind was fairly consistent, allowing us to get hits anyway, but certainly not with every shot. ~ I was pleased to see, as was the intent of this initial shooting with Hi-Velocity ammunition, very little vertical dispursion.

I will check and re-check these results with the remining rounds in the box.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Cross Draw;

We shoot off the cross-stick rest. No scopes, iron sights only.

Good day,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Sliver Eagle;

In the shooting descibed above there was one shot at the 266 yard "Ram" that sounded funny and hit about 5 feet low.

This was the only error in the ammunition I have found so far and your advise came to mind about weighing cartridges!

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Jon K]

FAsmus,

Did you check the brass...you may have ruptured the case.

Jon

[FAsmus]

Jon;

Thanks for the post.

I did check the fired case and it appeared normal. ~ Nothing else happened out of the ordinary.

Good morning,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Then WX was good this Saturday for shooting the Stevens 44 1/2 in 22RF.

I had 100 rounds of Federal "22 Auto Match" ready to go in the box and the targets were all painted by the time the rest of fellows arrived for shooting.

We had a good group for the shooting - some five shooters joined up on the line with various kinds of singleshot 22's and we made it a very good day.

My Stevens was in its stride, shooting the Auto Match very well from close in at 135 yards all the way out to the "Far Round" @ 371 Yards.

The group I fired at 135 yards was quite nice and I had confidence that the ammunition would do well all the way out - it did.

The 22RF shooting is different than the big-bore center-fire we're all used to. Lots more shooting can be done because lots less reloading has to be done in preparation. Thus we all hammer away until the targets are so covered with hits that nobody can tell where the most recent hit lands. ~ Then we move on to the next distance.

After awhile a fellow showed up with ( shudder ) with a match quality blow-back operated 22RF. Not only that he had a huge 24-power Mil-Dot scope mounted on it.

All of us singleshot fellows wasted no time at all at showing him that all the technology of the modern world was no substitute for intimate "feel" for conditions. ~ It was fun for everyone.

Good evening,
Forrest

PS; My last shot was a hit on the 371 target.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Here is a shot of the 22RF firing line -

54847

I'm not there since I took the picture - but you get the idea.

~ F

[FAsmus]

A shot of a 22RF target. This one set at 290 yards - with my friend Ginger for scale.

54848

~ F

[FAsmus]

Again, here is Ginger at the 411 yard Big Diamond - that rings very nicely even when hit by a mere 22.

54849

~ F

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

It is getting colder these days. Recently I did some shooting at around 40 degrees with the Federal 22 Auto Match and found that it didn't perform the way it did at say, 50 degrees or warmer.

Does anyone out there have experience with 22RF at temperatures of 40 degrees or less? ~ I'd hate to give up shooting RF until next spring some time!

Good evening,
Forrest

[birch]

I got into long range .22 when I got my Remington 513T. The farthest I can reliably win bets with friends it 225 yards. At that distance, I can hit coffee cans 10 out of 10 times with little to no wind. It is funny seeing people's reactions who think a .22 is only a 75 yard gun. In my gun, Blazer 40 grainers are amazing.

I would suggest that everyone runs a brush and patch through the bore every 50 shots. It is amazing how wax and powder really affect accuracy when pushed past 200 yards. It sounds strange, but frequent cleaning is a must.
I had a CBC copy of the rem. nylon 66 when I was a kid that never saw a bore brush. I would shove a patch down the barrel from time to time, but never a good brushing. I bet I put a half a million bullets down that gun. It always got me squirrels with frequency so I was a happy boy!

[ROGER4314]

My friends and I shoot at clay pigeons placed on the 200 yard berm. It's about 204 yards to the berm. The .22 LR is deadly on those birds at 200 but we had to develop new shooting techniques.

We live near Galveston Bay so there is always a breeze blowing. That breeze varies a lot in velocity and direction. Several of us get ready to shoot and one guy leads off. We see his dirt fly so we know what bird he has targeted. Our first round tells us the wind direction and amount of Kentucky windage hold that we need. Once corrected for windage, we fire for effect and try to bust the bird before the lead shooter does. That works until the wind shifts again and we start over. We must see the dirt "puffs" to make our corrections so this only works when the ground is dry.

The birds are 4 1/4" in diameter so I consider smacking a bird at 204 yards pretty respectable at 200 yards! 50% hits are about normal. The game is guaranteed to generate laughs!

Ammo has been a problem. Federal Bulk is noticeably variable in velocity. Remington is a bit better. I have NOT tried more expensive ammo. The trick is to get consistent ammo so your elevation settings and impacts are reliable then you simply work the windage. You can actually hear the difference in report from the Federal bulk ammo and elevation at 200 varies up to 3 feet just because of the variance in powder charges.

For scope adjustments, it requires 77 -1/4 minute clicks to come up from 100 to 200 yard zero. It's roughly 19-20 MOA elevation correction.

Have fun!

Flash

[FAsmus]

Flash;

I was wondering how you could see the clay birds well enough at 200 yards for a decent sight picture. ~ Then I got down to the final paragraph where you mention using scope sights.. Isn't that cheating?

If 200 yards is all a man has to work with I can see the challenge and interest. ~ Here, with silhouettes on out to 670 yards the distance is so great that "normal" 22RF barrels have to be worked in gradually so as not to over-stress them.

You see, it is kind of like a track & field fellow who only ran 100 yard dashes - then is suddenly requested to run a 1500 meter race.. Before he stands a chance he has to work up to the longer distance carefully or he'll never make it.

Out here we know that if we just sit down to shoot at long range with a rifle ordinarily used at the typical 75 - 100 yard distances and then immediately try to get hits way out there something called "barrel strain" is introduced into the poor unsuspecting rifle. Then a fellow will be forced to take the rifle down to the Rehabilitation place for professional help..

Good morning,
Forrest

[popper]

My lowly model 60 really likes CCI std(LRN). Accuracy with anything plated was terrible @ 100. A fellow with a good BR target rifle gave me some Federal LRN to try and they were good but I've never found any to buy. Have you tried the Paco Kelly accurizer tool to swage the LRN for proper shape?

[ROGER4314]

.......final paragraph where you mention using scope sights.. Isn't that cheating?

With 66 YO eyes and cataracts forming in both of them, I don't think I'd call it cheating.....snicker! We don't have competition at the local Houston area club so we shoot any way that we want to, there.

At the Beaumont, TX club, a friend shot a 200 yard match with a .22LR Remington 513T from NRA positions with two stages of rapid fire and iron sights. His score? 477 out of 500! That's embarrassing as he is a few years older than I am and that equals my best NRA High Power Rifle iron sight score! His .22 LR match was MASTER level shooting at 95%! He was competing against AR-15's and similar HP rifles. I was there and saw him do it!

I did better with a Marlin 917V (17HMR) from prone at 200 and scored 499/500 and 500/500 but it was not from positions...prone only. We had two rapid fire stages. I have knee issues so they allow me to shoot prone if I'm having a bad day.

Flash

[Forrest r]

Keep your ammo warm in cold weather. Get a small cooler & use the small hand warmers that come in packets & a couple of towels to line the cooler. Only take out what you can shoot in a minute or 2 & even then keep those in a pocket with a warmer in it. Auto-match is a good ammo for this because it uses a hard wax for a bullet lube.

Something else to check/consider:
Consistent ignition is key to any rimfire accuracy.
The cold brings out the worst in any firearm.
Some gun lubes are extremely poor performers in cold weather.
The only way to truely tell if you have any ignition issues (mechanical or weather/lube related) is with a chronograph.

I live in ne ohio & fine tune/test my rimfire firearms in cold weather (winter). I test different lots of target ammo in the summer & buy it by the case. I look for ammo that is accurate & has a low sd in a rifle & want to use that ammo in. When I test/use that same ammo in other 22's, the accuracy may change, the velocity of the ammo may change due to different bbl lengths/size/ect. The sd shouldn't change unless there's a problem with the rifle. That's how I find any ignition problems with a firearm.

Example: A type/lot/brand of ammo has a sd of 11 in 3 different rifles and has a sd of 47 in a new rifle I just bought. I retested the rifle/ammo combo & came up with a sd of 45 the 2nd time around. That tells me that I'm having ignition issues with that rifle.

I've seen this same senerio quite a bit with different rimfires & I wait until cold weather (20* to mid 30*) to test that rifle to dial/tune it in. It normally takes some bolt cleaning, a better lube, some polishing & a new fp spring to bring the rifles around. All the testing is done in cold weather with the rifle left out in the cold & the ammo kept warm either in a cooler or in a heated building 10yds behind the rifle range.

Come spring/summer, these rifes have killer ignition & in return get killer accuracy. It's nothing to shrink group sizes 30% to 40% by doing this.

[ROGER4314]

Those are great tips! Thanks for sharing them and I learned some new stuff!

My Marine Corps match shooter buddies shared their .308 and 30-06 loads with me. They actually change powders for climate changes. They use IMR4895 in summer and 748 in winter. Temp of the ammo apparently does make a difference!

Flash

[FAsmus]

Forrest r;

Thanks for the informative post; I can put your information to use not only in the RF line but some center-fire stuff as well since we shoot in the cold when the occasion comes along.

Good afternoon,
Forrest A

[barrabruce]

Interesting thread.
Thought I'd get me 'ol .22lr out and have some fun.
I was casing a coke can down the range last time I went with std velocity @ 200 yrds.
No dust to spray up so seeing misses sucked bad when conditions changed.

Had some fun today with half a pack of cci stf vel at 300 mtres (328 yds) sighted in at 50 yrds.

Got me rusty trifle out and the bloke next to be (new to the range) sort of quietly scoffed at its apperance. After a play and a greaseing up the bore at 50 yrds. Decided it was roughly right and settled in using a packet of cci std velocity I had up.
I find them to seem like they are transonic up to nearly cracking in my beasty and they don't go to sleep to well down the range and then start to shoot better if that makes any sense.

Was hitting the gong 24 inch cirlce plate 2-3 times in a row.
Then the wind 'd change and had to re- figure it out.
The bloke asked me how much elevation and I told him to the top of the first mountain range...Heee heee.
I think 5 or 6 in a row was my best.
Not bad for a old hacked of barrell to 9". Hasn't even got a benz chamber.
He asked about wind and it had just changed a bit in strength... I said well now with the wind as it is about an extra 10 feet up and about the same to the right.
Bang..........tink!!!!

Didn't say any more but was freindly.

He was having a bit of a quiet whinge and whine about how much he had to hold over with his 308 and 125 grain pills on the 300 yrd gong.
He stopped whinging and started concentrating and started to hammer the gong for a while.
Guess he got over it.

I might try a old aluminium plate hanging under a traget frame to see if I can get some distance and hear a hit or 2. Maybe even see how it groups.
Like I said I am enjoying this since me rifles not up to snuff for bench rest and looks crappy as all hell with a hacked stock, a socketed allan headed bolt for a bedding screw and to top it off a bloop tube made out of gal pipe bird **** weled to a nut for adjustment. The el'cheapo 3-9x scope with the rubber protectant rubbed off finishes its over all rural agg rough apperance. Which it is.

I suppose I'd better get a nice single shot with a peep if I can still use open sights. Least it'd look impressive.
and sound proper.
Barra