Quick question to 629 owners

[HDS]

Here I am again with my problem child of a revolver. This time I just want to know if you could be so kind as to check your revovlers cylinder chambers. Look at the taper into the throats, is there a sharp ledge at the start of the taper, or is the transition smooth?

Does it look like this in other words:
http://i49.tinypic.com/23lckro.jpg

Or does it look like this?
http://i45.tinypic.com/334lt7d.jpg

Mine looks like the first one and I sure don't think that's how things are supposed to be. It looks like the chambers of a 625 instead, they have those edges at the start of the taper because they head space on it. All it does for me is shave lead.

Now I am looking if I need a chamber reamer or not. Brownells seems to have one but I am not sure if it just reams the chamber or if it also reams out the taper?

[Jim]

I wouldn't make a pimple on the butt of some of the pistol gurus on this forum, but I'll tell ya' what I'm thinkin'.

First, I'd slug the barrel and caliper the throats to see what the fit differences are. Seems to me that, if those 'ridges' are shaving lead, the boolits might need to be sized down a bit. As I understand it, the throats should be equal to the groove diameter or about one K over. If the boolits are gettin' shaved, that means they're way bigger than the throats and the throats are sizin' 'em down on the way out.

There are some guys on this forum that are way more knowledgeable than me on this. I'm sure they'll chime in on this shortly. They'll help ya' straighten this out.

By the way, that's pretty good work with the camera gettin' that throat in focus!

[HDS]

The throats are not the issue on this gun, that was measured and corrected around 8 months ago, they are now all .4305" and I size to .431".

The leading that occurs in this case happens with full wadcutters and it happens on that sharp edge in the form of slivers of lead that stick out from that edge. It's pretty clear to me that the sharp front edge of the wadcutters are impacting on that sharp edge and shaving off slivers. In what I understand to be a properly reamed cylinder, the bullet should instead hit the taper and be sized down into the throats without any lead shaving, there should be no edge for it catch on.

This problem seems to be one related to the chambers and how the taper into the throats is designed. I just want other 629 owners to verify for me what their chambers look like.

From what I have found out, it would appear that .44mag cylinders are not supposed to have a sharp edge before the taper starts. I think something was done incorrectly or some step forgotten when this gun was made.

[HDS]

Here's a kind of diagram I made to illustrate the issue, my gun looks like the chamber below, while a proper design seems to be the above one:
http://i46.tinypic.com/suubs8.jpg

[2ndAmendmentNut]

You might try fire lapping the gun. The polishing compound should take the edge off the sharp places you are talking about.

[btroj]

I would change to a different bullet, if you have a mould for one without this problem.
I will always change moulds before modifying a gun like that.

[HDS]

Yeah I wont.

[jwp475]

Yeah I wont.



I agree the revolver should be correct and not need band aids. Send it to a quality smith or back to S&W

[HDS]

Smith is an option, S&W won't touch it I know that from before, so I am pretty much on my own. Smiths can be expensive so buying the reamer myself is an option I am investigating as well. It doesn't look hard, the biggest question mark I got is how I am going to get the reamer to the same depth every time. I don't have a lathe or mill to work with.

My purpose with this thread was mainly to verify that my chambers are the odd duck out when it comes to 629s.

[bobthenailer]

I have 3, 629s and a old 29 and all have cylinders chambers like your #2 photo .
and all of them have shot the Saeco #944 full wadcutter excellent.
Perhaps a Flex hone would fix your problem ?

[Marvin S]

I looked at my 629 classic and its hard to tell but would assume it is like yours. A stop collar will control the depth of a cutting tool if you had a mind to do something like this.

[HDS]

I looked at my 629 classic and its hard to tell but would assume it is like yours. A stop collar will control the depth of a cutting tool if you had a mind to do something like this.

Thanks! A stop collar, thatt's precisely the kind of thing I was looking for, this might be doable after all.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The throats are not the issue on this gun, that was measured and corrected around 8 months ago, they are now all .4305" and I size to .431".
Just curious, what do you mean by corrected ?
and who did the correcting ?

I'm just guessing here, but whoever corrected it (reamed it out ?)
maybe have left what I believe with you , the incorrect edge of the throat.

I'd have the original "corrector" fix it, or find a gunsmith that will.
If a gunsmith has the reammer and the equipment to use it, I can't believe
it'll be cost prohibitive.

IF I am way off base here, and the Gun is stock, then I'd contact S&W or change boolit designs.
Jon

[HDS]

No that is not how it is. If it was I would not be having this thread. The gun looked like this stock, the smith who did the reaming did that part just fine, albeit expensively (192 euros). He's the only S&W smith in Finland so I guess he knows he can charge.

And no I can't turn to S&W, their local distributor / service center doesn't handle my gun because I bought it directly from Germany and shipping it back to germany is a legal nightmare and practically undoable anyway, the guy in germany didn't want anything todo with me either. S&W themselves don't seem to care either.

I really did think of all these options beforehand, indeed I did...

And no, not using wadcutters (and my recently purchased lovely mihec HBWC mold) is so far of the chart that everyone can just stop suggesting I leave this gun as is. It's not right this way and that is not acceptable. It's going to be corrected if it's the last thing I ever do. A new mold isn't going to help either, no wadcutter is ever gonna work with this so I could swap molds until the cows come home without any success. And I already got the best HBWC mold in the world anyway so why trade down.

[Char-Gar]

"And no, not using wadcutters (and my recently purchased lovely mihec HBWC mold) is so far of the chart that everyone can just stop suggesting I leave this gun as is. It's not right this way and that is not acceptable. It's going to be corrected if it's the last thing I ever do. A new mold isn't going to help either, no wadcutter is ever gonna work with this so I could swap molds until the cows come home without any success. And I already got the best HBWC mold in the world anyway so why trade down."...HDS

I have lived a long life without shooting full wadcutters out of any kind of 44 sixgun. Nobody designed these revolvers for such a bullet, so one should not be surprised they dont work very well in some sixguns, particularily one that has had the throats enlarged. all reamers I have seen to do that kind of work do not have a tapered shoulder on them. They just cut straight and I can see how that would leave a sharp edge on the forward part of the charge hole cone. Trying to fire a .431 wad cutter down a .4305 throat with a edge, is bound to produce some lead shaving.

Any frustration and angst you are experiencing over this issue is your own doing and comes from inappropriate bullet choice. Swim upstream if you must, but don't blame the sixgun maker or the gunsmith if you are not happy with your choices.

I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would want to shoot wadcutters out of a 44 Magnum sixgun. Now, I get the notion of shooting low end target loads out of a 629 as the pistol and the round are usually very accurate, it is just the wadcutter I don't get.

The wadcutter isn't the most accurate bullet out there. It was designed to cut clean holes in targets to aid in scoring. There are several traditional designed like the RN which will deliver as good and often superior accuracy as the WC. The WC also loose stability and accuracy at much shorter ranges than the RN or SWC. Unless a fellow is shooting Bullseye matches with a 629, wadcutters make no sense.

But, I suppose the novelty of the idea, has an appeal to some folks.

A wadcutter with a hollow base has two purposes. First it shoved the center of gravity forward helping the bullet reach the target with a smidge more accuracy. It is somethink like a shuttle cock. The second reason is to exand in the throat and barrel forcing cone to form a good gas seal with low pressure target loads.

The simple solution is to size those bullets .430 and let the hollow base do what it is supposed to do, expand to form a gas seal. You will never be able to tell any difference in accuracy between a .431 bullet and a .430 bullets and you won't have to screw around with the pistol any more.

[Firebricker]

Given your circumstances I think you'll probably be best going with the gunsmith you trust. You can get the tooling to do it by hand but it's too much for one use. Good luck,FB

[EDK]

Back in the late 1980s, S&W introduced the 625 in 45 ACP. The guns would shave lead off after a few rounds. It seems a new machinist ground the chambering reamers off the print he was given...and didn't know to gently radius the edge since the print didn't say to do it. (The old chambering reamers had been misplaced or destroyed.) The factory engineering people...aka new guys...scratched their heads and finally looked up a retiree for advice. After consultation, they made up reamers to correct the problem and distributed them to various factory warranty stations and informed people who had sent in warranty cards. I hadn't sent in the card, but consulted a gunsmith at the Masters pistol tournament in Barry IL. He did my guns in a couple of minutes and they're languishing in the safe since I got interested in VAQUEROS. It's been over 20 years and most of this is hearsay, but it is an entertaining story and has a lot of similarities to this one.

I've got the MIHEC hollow base wadcutter mould in 44...357 also. They are both great...like everything Miha has made for me. I shoot a lot of them in the 44 VAQUEROS. One of my former co-workers...I retired in January...likes shooting the 44 boolit at his local indoor range. The newbies freak out at a black man shooting a SUPER REDHAWK and shooting tight groups with big square boolit holes in the targets. The regulars know Ernie and like to watch the reactions and whispering.

:redneck: :cbpour:

[HDS]

"I have lived a long life without shooting full wadcutters out of any kind of 44 sixgun. Nobody designed these revolvers for such a bullet, so one should not be surprised they dont work very well in some sixguns, particularily one that has had the throats enlarged. all reamers I have seen to do that kind of work do not have a tapered shoulder on them. They just cut straight and I can see how that would leave a sharp edge on the forward part of the charge hole cone. Trying to fire a .431 wad cutter down a .4305 throat with a edge, is bound to produce some lead shaving.

I don't understand why you focus on the throats or their enlarging here, that procedure did not cause this sharp edge, the throats don't lead either. No throating reamer I have ever seen could have created a sharp ledge where the chamber ends. And the reamers I have been discussing are chamber reamers, not throating reamers. And plenty of the chamber reamers I have seen include a taper for easing into the throats.


Any frustration and angst you are experiencing over this issue is your own doing and comes from inappropriate bullet choice. Swim upstream if you must, but don't blame the sixgun maker or the gunsmith if you are not happy with your choices.

I don't blame the gunsmith, I do blame the maker. I didn't even experience any angst until this thread to be honest. I would do this mod even if I never shot another wadcutter in my life or even picked up the gun again. It's not right and it shall not remain like this. Shoddy work on the makers part. Shoddy.


The simple solution is to size those bullets .430 and let the hollow base do what it is supposed to do, expand to form a gas seal. You will never be able to tell any difference in accuracy between a .431 bullet and a .430 bullets and you won't have to screw around with the pistol any more.

That won't help. They'll still get caught on the sharp edge in the chamber despite what their size is, they are already smaller than the diameter of the chamber and its in the chamber they get caught and shave lead, not in the throat. With a properly reamed taper in the chamber they would easily feed into the throats without shaving at the chamber end.

[5shotbfr]

i have a sharps rifle that has a sharp edge ( case stop ) a lot like your cylinder .
i found 2 ways to make it not shave lead

1. longer cases , so there is no room for lead in that area

2. i seated the bullet so a grease groove was right at the area of the shoulder . so the space between the end of the case and the shoulder got filled with lube upon firing and not lead .

i cant say that either solution would be easy to do with a revolver .

first thing i would try is a switch to a softer lube .

i would try everything i could think of that doesnt require removing metal that can not be replaced


and before we start blaming the manufactorer for shoddy work , keep in mind that reaming the throats will cause that sharp ledge as others have pointed out .. that entire area from the ledge forward is the throat

[HDS]

and before we start blaming the manufactorer for shoddy work , keep in mind that reaming the throats will cause that sharp ledge as others have pointed out .. that entire area from the ledge forward is the throat

I would really like to see the evidence for this. Sounds to me like some people haven't understood the issue.

Here's a throating reamer:
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/l_513000071_1.jpg

How can this create a sharp ledge at the beginning of the taper, how can it literally add metal in relation to the proper chamber specs?

Also they where always there from the start, I just thought it was normal back then and didn't know better. So the throat reaming did not cause this, so we can put that to bed.

[5shotbfr]

its late and i cant sleep so curiosity kicked in .
i took my bfr out of the safe removed the cylinder and looked .. it looks just like your chamber .. sharp edge and all .

again id try changing my lube .. i dont have any leading issues with this revolver at all .. it does collect lube and fouling there though .
i do use a rather soft lube
check all other possible issues before blaming the gun

pics not as good as yours but you can get the idea .

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/1346738040.jpg

[HDS]

What caliber is your gun?

I've had maybe 10-12 different people check their guns now, everyone with a K/N/L smith in 357 or 44 has so far reported a taper without a ledge, one unsure (in this thread).

Here's a 357 chamber reamer that also recesses the chamber like on old smiths btw:
http://oi47.tinypic.com/14diu4n.jpg

[5shotbfr]

well to be fair its not a smith .. it is a magnum research bfr in .475 linebaugh , i have looked at my own smiths and none of them have the sharp shoulder .

i am just trying to show an example of the same style chamber .

[HDS]

Yeah thanks for checking. Appreciate it.

[5shotbfr]

i missed entirely that you was shooting full wadcutters . i have to change my mind on a lube change helping you very much if at all .

if you are bent on shooting wad cutters i would try changing my alloy see if that helps , doubtfull but it dont hurt to try .

how does it shoot ? if it shoots good and your able to reload it i wouldnt give that little bit of leading a second thought

[subsonic]

Try this. Take a wadcutter and seat it half way into a sized case. Shove it in the chamber. Does it fit? Does it hit that ledge? Size it .430 and try again.

Think about this: As the cartridge is fired, the rear end of the boolit should still be in the case as it is entering that throat and the case should provide some control and alignment on the rear end of the boolit. That is, unless you are shooting really short wadcutters and using shorter cases like .44spl or Russian. Are you using regular length .44mag brass?

I really think you need to try a .430" boolit and see what happens. If you shoot an oversize lead boolit through that throat, something has to give. You CAN taper that edge like you want to, but that is just increasing the length that the boolit has to travel before the throat "catches" it and provides support and alignment. I don't think accuracy will be as good.

Let me guess - you are shooting a really soft alloy as well that slumps and "obturates" with that hollow base that is designed to "obturate" better?

[Char-Gar]

"I don't understand why you focus on the throats or their enlarging here, that procedure did not cause this sharp edge, the throats don't lead either."

They'll still get caught on the sharp edge in the chamber despite what their size is, they are already smaller than the diameter of the chamber and its in the chamber they get caught and shave lead, not in the throat. With a properly reamed taper in the chamber they would easily feed into the throats without shaving at the chamber end."


Well, I only know what you tell us, and if I can read the below post correctly, you said you were putting .431 bullets down .4305 throats with lead shaving in the throats. The is the reason for my response on the matter. I guess you didn't mean what you said. When you ask for help, we only know what you say. Maybe it is a language issues..I really don't know.


The throats are not the issue on this gun, that was measured and corrected around 8 months ago, they are now all .4305" and I size to .431".

The leading that occurs in this case happens with full wadcutters and it happens on that sharp edge in the form of slivers of lead that stick out from that edge. It's pretty clear to me that the sharp front edge of the wadcutters are impacting on that sharp edge and shaving off slivers. In what I understand to be a properly reamed cylinder, the bullet should instead hit the taper and be sized down into the throats without any lead shaving, there should be no edge for it catch on.

[HDS]

That sharp edge is on the chamber side, before the taper into the throats even start, never had any throat leading problems even with the WC bullets. And firing a bullet .0005" over throat size is a problem now? A whole lot of people on this forum has been saying that's been a near ideal sizing condition and for me it has worked superbly.

[Char-Gar]

That sharp edge is on the chamber side, before the taper into the throats even start, never had any throat leading problems even with the WC bullets. And firing a bullet .0005" over throat size is a problem now? A whole lot of people on this forum has been saying that's been a near ideal sizing condition and for me it has worked superbly.

I will give this one more shot, then I am done.

a bullet .0005 or even a tad larger over throat size is a good thing...IF...the bullet used, has enough taper to it, to swage down, without shaving at it enters the smaller throat.

The wadcutter with the blunt fill diameter front end will not swage down and will shave lead on the sharp edge. The front of the bullet will be behind the cone(plus sharp edge) in the charge hole and hit that cone and sharp edge at a dead run when the powder charge goes off. The hollow base will also start to expand as it leaves the case and can cause further problems.

I surmise, you don't fully appreciate the differences between a wadcutter and other bullet designs. In YOUR handgun, a bullet with a nose will make all the difference and cure all of your problems.

A wadcutter could be used in your handgun...IF... it was seated out far enough, for the front end to enter the full diamter of the throat. But that would require sizing the bullet down to below throat size so it could enter with ease. Even then it would require a little jiggling of the round to get it to enter the throat proper.

You keep telling me the throats are not a problem and wadcutters don't cause leading. Well shaving off lead slivers IS the problem and that lead has to go somewhere. If these throats and the way they are cut are not a problem, what is the purpose of this entire thread. When I use the term "throat" I mean the entire cotton picking thing which includes the sharp edge which seems to be so perplexing for you.

I will close with a mini-rant and then you are on your own.

1. Somewhere you got the notion that full wadcutters were something good to shoot in your 629. I think that basic assumption should be questioned again.

2. Somewhere you got the notion that the 629 needed to have the cylinder throats enlarged. I think that basic assumption should be questioned again. My 629 has .430 throats and .430 barrel groove and is the best cast bullet shooting pistol I own and I own scores of pistols. Time and time again, on these boards we see folks taking reamers to cylinder throats way before they discover for themselves if that is a need and solution to a real issue they have. If you go to a gunsmith and ask him to ream your cylinder thoats, he will ream them, whether they need it or not. That is what you are paying him to do. He is not there to catch you bad ideas and say no to them.

3. But you did what you did, for the reasons you did it and here you are. Your best route is to sell that mold to somebody else and get a Keith or some other design bullet mold with a nose on it.

4. I get the notion that you really dont have much experience with these matter, and are going from advise you get on the web. Bear in mind that many folks, who post on these sites, have no more experience than you do and the advise they give is often wrong. They are parroting something the read and hear without understanding the real dynamics of how these things work.

5. My experience with human nature informs me you will disregard what I say, that just seems to be the way of it.

There now, I am truly done with this.

Best of luck to you in the land of the Finns..Charles

[subsonic]

4. I get the notion that you really dont have much experience with these matter, and are going from advise you get on the web. Bear in mind that many folks, who post on these sites, have no more experience than you do and the advise they give is often wrong. They are parroting something the read and hear without understanding the real dynamics of how these things work.

:holysheep

But I think you're right.

[5shotbfr]

i cant find anything to disagree with in what char-gar said , it is very sound advice .

but how does the wad cutter shoot ? .. does the little bit of shaved lead affect chambering fresh rounds while shooting ?
if they shoot good and load good why make a mountain out of a molehill .
if they do not shoot good or load because if the leading take the advice above and use a bullet with a design that will work with your chamber

[HDS]

I will give this one more shot, then I am done.

a bullet .0005 or even a tad larger over throat size is a good thing...IF...the bullet used, has enough taper to it, to swage down, without shaving at it enters the smaller throat.

The wadcutter with the blunt fill diameter front end will not swage down and will shave lead on the sharp edge. The front of the bullet will be behind the cone(plus sharp edge) in the charge hole and hit that cone and sharp edge at a dead run when the powder charge goes off. The hollow base will also start to expand as it leaves the case and can cause further problems.

I surmise, you don't fully appreciate the differences between a wadcutter and other bullet designs. In YOUR handgun, a bullet with a nose will make all the difference and cure all of your problems.

No I agree 100% with how you describe the situation here and it is exactly how I had diagnosed the problem! To me however, this edge should not exist, it is a flaw from the factory. If it had been made properly the chamber would transition smoothly (or smoother at any rate) into the throat and there would be no thing for the WC nose to catch on. It might be of some interest to know that the nose is ever so slightly beveled though.

My proposed solution is to ream the chamber to the proper specs so that there will be no sharp edge, because there isn't supposed to be one, unless S&W themselves are in error on this now (yes I have talked to them now).

And I do shoot another bullet as my main choice, an H&G 503 copy by Mihec (http://i51.tinypic.com/2qake9d.jpg), I have no leading issues because it is long enough to engage the throat (long enough by far) and avoid catching on the edge.

I might never have known this flaw in my gun existed unless I had decided to shoot Wadcutters out of it you know.




A wadcutter could be used in your handgun...IF... it was seated out far enough, for the front end to enter the full diamter of the throat. But that would require sizing the bullet down to below throat size so it could enter with ease. Even then it would require a little jiggling of the round to get it to enter the throat proper.

I have been experimenting with that as well, by loading it further out for these exact reasons, by seating it further out it cannot catch on that unsightly build flaw. It might work, it might not.


You keep telling me the throats are not a problem and wadcutters don't cause leading. Well shaving off lead slivers IS the problem and that lead has to go somewhere. If these throats and the way they are cut are not a problem, what is the purpose of this entire thread. When I use the term "throat" I mean the entire cotton picking thing which includes the sharp edge which seems to be so perplexing for you.

As far as I am concerned the throats are just the end part of the cylinder, before that we have the chamber, from the chamber we have a taper into the throats. I thus segment the whole cylinder into three distinct parts:
1. Chamber
2. Taper
3. Throats

At any rate you mention the throat reaming earlier as a cause for my sharp edge, but this is incorrect because the edge was there before reaming, at the time I thought it was meant to be like this and gave it no further thought. Besides, the throat reamer never touched the area where the lead is being shaven, it's design makes it impossible to have created any edge in this area even if you heavily misused it.



1. Somewhere you got the notion that full wadcutters were something good to shoot in your 629. I think that basic assumption should be questioned again.

I would like to know why. I mean I know, it's not going to be as good as a .38spl because a bigger diameter wadcutter is going to have worse ballistics. But other than that I can't see any real difference between a 629 and K38 in their ability to fire this projectile. Both of these guns when properly made have a chamber, taper and throat to contend with, no edge like in mine.

I sure wish I could just buy a K38 and make it my wadcutter gun, but since guns on lifetime permits went bye bye here in Finland it'd only be like renting the right to own it for 5 years at a time, so I haven't been too keen on buying a handgun ever since. My 629 though is grandfathered in and thus will never leave my side even if I have to buy a whole new cylinder and replace every single part over the years until its no longer the same gun.


2. Somewhere you got the notion that the 629 needed to have the cylinder throats enlarged. I think that basic assumption should be questioned again. My 629 has .430 throats and .430 barrel groove and is the best cast bullet shooting pistol I own and I own scores of pistols. Time and time again, on these boards we see folks taking reamers to cylinder throats way before they discover for themselves if that is a need and solution to a real issue they have. If you go to a gunsmith and ask him to ream your cylinder thoats, he will ream them, whether they need it or not. That is what you are paying him to do. He is not there to catch you bad ideas and say no to them.

Yes the notion I got for reaming the cylinder throats was that they where .4275" (plug gage measuring) and the bore was .429" and it was leading like crazy. Since I reamed it 90% of the leading went away with my keith style bullets. I asked my smith what he thought I should do infact, raher than say I want you todo this. I also had him measure the throats and he came to the same conclusion, so maybe he just wanted to take my money? Would you consider noted CB posted Glen E. Fryxell to be one of those guys who gives out bad advice, his writings on cast bullets and revolvers was one of the sources I used to determine proper thoat size for my gun.

I only wish I have had dimensions as nicely fitting as on your gun, but alas my 629 seems to be put together by junk parts from a german aftermarket company going out of business.


3. But you did what you did, for the reasons you did it and here you are. Your best route is to sell that mold to somebody else and get a Keith or some other design bullet mold with a nose on it.

Yes and it was an improvement all around. Got two keith molds already thanks, it works superbly with them, it was quite a disaster before the reaming though...


4. I get the notion that you really dont have much experience with these matter, and are going from advise you get on the web. Bear in mind that many folks, who post on these sites, have no more experience than you do and the advise they give is often wrong. They are parroting something the read and hear without understanding the real dynamics of how these things work.

I am very critical of all sources of information, especially on the web, this includes you, how do I know you are the exception to this? To be frank I get the notion you have a lot of personal experience and are rather set in your ways, to the exclusion of academic or "dry" information by eggheads and such.

At any rate I spent a whole year looking into the process and how cast bullets in revolvers work before doing anything about the throat reaming, I will likely spend many months yet before deciding on what I will do here. I am if anything, patient.


5. My experience with human nature informs me you will disregard what I say, that just seems to be the way of it.

I have read your messages very carefully, I am still assessing the information and what I will do.

But in the end it seems to me that the following points are all true
1. The edge in question, is not supposed to be there; 10+ verifications of this and S&W themselves have now told me as much.
2. It wasn't caused by the reaming of the throats, the physical design of the throating reamer prevented that.

So my gun is in my eyes, pretty much confirmed to be incorrectly made. I could possibly live with the gun being like this, or maybe I cant... We'll see!

[Char-Gar]

Glen Fryxell is a friend of mine and a very knowledgeable guy on these matters.

This is going to get you spun up, but so be it. I have never known of a Smith and Wesson 629 with .4275 throats. I had better stop there before I insult you and your gunsmith.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I only wish I have had dimensions as nicely fitting as on your gun, but alas my 629 seems to be put together by junk parts from a german aftermarket company going out of business.

We've never established how old you gun is. There were some machining quality issues with S&W back in the 1970s, there are tons of stories on the net if you look for them. I know this doesn't help you out any, but may answer what is up with your gun. A few years back, I bought a near new condition S&W mod. 25-3 Revolver (made in 1977) in 45 colt, the throats were oversized and different sized from each other. I have since learned that is fairly common back then.

I do think the edge/ledge shouldn't be there...Good Luck removing it.
Jon

[HDS]

Glen Fryxell is a friend of mine and a very knowledgeable guy on these matters.

This is going to get you spun up, but so be it. I have never known of a Smith and Wesson 629 with .4275 throats. I had better stop there before I insult you and your gunsmith.

I don't know why you would have to resort to insults just because of that? This gun is rather strange and unique anyway and wasn't made or put together the way most S&Ws are, but instead by a third party who took the base gun and swapped out parts, who knows what is original and what is not? I am for instance not sure if teh cylinder which is unfluted came with this gun from S&W, it looks like a 629 Classic that someone has bead blasted, put some extra laser engravings on and a new cylinder.


JonB_in_Glencoe, the stampings on the frame indicate it's a 629-5, which I believe puts it somewhere in this millennium at any rate.

EDIT: P.S. I said my throats where .4305" that was incorrect of me, that's what the gunsmith wanted todo but I had him do .430", I mixed up the measurements there but I got unsure so I went back and checked what the invoice said.

[44man]

The lead in to the throats looks normal to me. It is not a long taper. A boolit should enter the throat a little. Wad cutters are never right in any case. Even a Keith will enter the throats but can fail at the cone.
If you peel lead at the start of the throats your boolit is too soft and is expanding only to be sized again in the throat. Or your boolit is too far from it and is laying off center.
Change the boolit.
Throats should be at least groove size to a little over. You gain zero making boolits over throat size and might be the cause of lead peeling. Make boolits UNDER throat by .0005" or a nice thumb fit, NOT OVER. Not a single thing is gained going over throat.
Your wad cutter is laying behind the throat lead in, get the boolit to enter the throats.

[HDS]

The choice to go with .431" was mostly a marriage of convenience so I can use the same ammo in in my 1892 lever, it wants a bigger bullet. I have not found the .431"size to cause any throat leading with my Keith style bullets so I am happy with the outcome even though a .430" would be optimal.

I would like to know more about your opinion on what is normal for the throats design, it's not supposed to be a long taper from chamber to throat? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is it your opinion that my chamber and throat transition is normal and not a flaw, that the sharp edge in this picture (http://i48.tinypic.com/9usqj8.jpg) is not an error. Sure it might not be something that's wrong enough to require a fix, but is it actually right and proper according to specs?

Mind you this picture here and in my first post is an old one and the dirt in the chamber there is actually just powder residue from a light N110 load, no lead. I just realized a lot of people might have thought that picture was meant to show leading, when it was soley there to illustrate the sharp edge.

[shotman]

i have 2 and there is a very light ridge and then a taper in the cylinder. Check your brass and see if they match the length. could bee you may have a long cut cyl or short brass

[44man]

Every revolver I have ever seen has the same edge. It is only a slight angle.
You are OK.

[PbHurler]

As an answer to your original post;
All of the 629's I own & have owned, have all had smooth transitions from the chambers to the throats, there's been no step.

For what it's worth........

[HDS]

Thanks, it's a very interesting phenomenon in of itself to me now. Even if I let the step remain in my gun or not I am determined to find out why some have it and others don't.