Small Base die for 30-30 brass

[Nrut]

Back in the 90's I ordered up 2000 once fired 30-30 cases as they were cheap...they came from Winchester test firing from what I was told.....Well last night I started reloading for a Uberti Low Wall in 30-30 and I counld'nt size them down small enough to chamber ......tried some one fired Federals same deal...The unfired Federal factory rounds fit fine....Well being the thrifty person I am [smilie=1: I got to pondering how I could make some of those Winchester once fired fit....I don't think anyone makes a small base resize die for the 30-30......would "shorting" a 38-55 cheap(er) LEE resize die work?........your thoughts?.....:)

[versifier]

I believe RCBS makes them. 1-800-533-5000
I don't see how you could rig something with the proper taper. Shoulder diameter .401", head diameter .422". If you have a lathe, you can make your own small base die with a chambering reamer, which you can rent.

[Johnch]

If it the stop is a over sized base , just above the rim
If you could find a extra 375 winchester sizing die at the gun show or someones junk drawer
I would take a few thousands off the bottom and try sizing till the 30-30's would chamber



Johnch

[floodgate]

Nrut:

...Or, look around the gun-shows for one of the old Ideal "hand-sizing" dies (you squeeze the [lubed!] case into the die right up to the rim in a vise [see the "vice" thread from the past couple of days], then use a spacer (like a 1" nut) and the knockout rod to squeeze it back out again). S - l - o - w, but effective. These dies usually go for $5 or so at gun-shows; or I might have one in the Ideal "cigar box" out in the shop I could loan you.

floodgate

[Lloyd Smale]

id be interested in buying some of those once fired brass if youd like to replace some of it with new brass.

[Dale53]

I have a suggestion that will cost absolutely NOTHING to try. Get a shellholder that you can sit the case on (I use a .22 Hornet shell holder). Remove the decapping rod completely from the 30-30 size die. Push the 30-30 case clear up into the proper sizing die with the rim flush with the dies bottom. Then use a dowel (that's why you MUST remove the decapping rod before you size the case) and knock the case out of the die. Be sure and lube them properly before trying to size.

The theory (and fact) is shoving the case up into the die will size the area just in front of the rim. Normally, this never gets sized because the rim inside of the shell holder prevents this.

This little trick had worked for me when I ran into the same problem with a C. Sharps 40-65 that suffered from the same problem with NEW cases. You only have to do it once and it lasts for the life of the case. After you get rolling, it really doesn't take all that long to accomplish and remember, you only have to do it once.

Good luck and let us know if this solves the problem for you.

Dale53

[felix]

I wonder if the neck base will be pushed back too far? The BR type of knockout die would be perfect for this. ... felix

[Dale53]

Felix;
The case will almost certainly have the shoulder moved back "too much". However, we are dealing with a rimmed case here and shouldn't present a problem (this method would cause excess head space with a rimless case).

The shoulder will be set back when sized, but will then be blown back where it should be on first firing. It shouldn't create a problem. It IS something to watch, but with a rimmed case giving normal headspace, I wouldn't worry overmuch.

Of course, this common problem with the 40-65 doesn't have that complication (it is a straight tapered case).

Dale53

[scrapcan]

Floodgate had the option I would be looking for. You could also buy a lee loader in 30-30 and do the same thing. Ony willing to loan a lee loader Looks like floodgate offered the use of a lyman FL knockout sizer.

I think the 310 shop had the 30-30 listed for FL knock out sizers. Floodgate could tell if Randy has had a chance to get setup after his recent move.

[floodgate]

Nrut:

I looked in the "cigar box" and found a loose (slightly dinged outside, byt interior is perfect) Lyman .30-30 hand-sizing die body (it needs a knockout rod, but I can make one up from scrap) . You can have it - for keeps - for $5.00 (to cover postage, etc.) if you will PM me with your address.

manley:

Yes, Randy Davis is back, up and running at his new location in Tombstone, AZ. See his current list at <http://www.cnyauctions.com/the310shop.htm>.

floodgate

[Hackleback]

Get an old 30-30 sizing die, remove the decapping pin and drill the top half oversize. Next file down the bottom till it fits the chamber. The though is to make a die that only sizes the body. This would make sizing a two step/die process, but I think would still be faster than knocking each piece of brass out with a rod. I would think one could pick up a 30-30 die set for not much money at a local gun show.

Just a thought.

[Sundogg1911]

id be interested in buying some of those once fired brass if youd like to replace some of it with new brass.

Lloyd,

I have a bunch of once fired 30-30. How many are you looking for?
I bought some virgin Winchester cases, and then my Brother-in-Law gave me a big bag of once fired for some cast boolits. I'll never use them all.

[Nrut]

Thanks for the replies...Drawings in reloading manuals show that the 30-30 case measures .421-2" above the rim and .401+" at the shoulder...

**Versifer...I was mistakingly thinking that the base area near the rim was not resizing down enough, but after reading your post I took some measurements and found the (using Dale 53's method) sized web area to be .416 and the shoulder area to be at .400...I can now force the case to chamber but but must use a cleaing rod to knock it out with...
The Federal factory loaded round, which does chamber nicely, has a base meas. of .416+ and a shoulder meas. of .396+
**Dale 53...I thought your method(setting case on top of .22 Hornet shell holder) would work for sure as you are really cramming the case up into the die....I came up with the same base (.416) and same shoulder (.400) measurement as using a regular 30-30 shell holder...does'nt compute does it?..should have came out smaller......
**Floodgate....Thanks for the offer for now but I would need to know if your die will size down the shoulder of the case to .396" as that is what the Federal factory round has and it fits...
**Lloyd Smale...I live in Canada and even though these cases are made by Winchester I'm sure the "customs people" would frown on me shipping them back to the states with out a permit of some sort....wish I could send you some as I have more than I can use...looking at the shipping label on the box they came in I see they came from Precision Reloading in CT back in May of 1996....All I recall was that the shipping was about half the total cost as the price of the brass was cheap, cheap,cheap!...Looks like Sundogg1911 can help you though..

I ask if any of you fellows who are reloading for the 30-30 could you please measure the dia. of resized cases just above the "rim" and at the "shoulder"...I am using a LEE sizer now...perhaps some other brand "sizes" down more???....What I need is a resizing die that will resize the case to

Just above Rim= .416-7"
Diameter @ shoulder= .396-7"
Thats what Federal factory measures and it fits...

Thanks again for your replies,
cheers,:-D
Mike
Oh...as a side note I went to our little town yesterday afternoon and found the last bag of 30-30 brass they had....now I can play!:drinks:

[Dale53]

Nrut;
Congratulations! You now know exactly what the problem is. Now, you can look for a 30-30 die that will work for you. You might want to contact your die manufacturer and see what "he" has to say.

A number of years ago, a friend had a large batch of .45 ACP cases that were not sized correctly by his RCBS dies. He contacted RCBS and they had him ship his die to them and they exchanged it for one that worked. In his case the problem was with his brass (nothing wrong with the RCBS sizing die for typical cases but it wouldn't work with his cases). Just a matter of tolerances not working out. Much to RCBS's credit the problem was solved.

Try your die manufacturer, they may be of help.

Dale53

[floodgate]

Nrut:

I made up the knockout rod for the Lyman hand-sizing die and ran a Winchester case through it; came up with 0.415-6" at the head just under the rim, and 0.396-8" on the shoulder (the last a bit tricky to measure). The set is yours for postage cost via a PriMail packet if you'll PM me your address.

floodgate

[Nrut]

Nrut:

I made up the knockout rod for the Lyman hand-sizing die and ran a Winchester case through it; came up with 0.415-6" at the head just under the rim, and 0.396-8" on the shoulder (the last a bit tricky to measure). The set is yours for postage cost via a PriMail packet if you'll PM me your address.

floodgate
floodgate...PM with address sent and thanks for your generosity...

[uscra112]

I can recall having three or four .30-30 dies from different manufacturers, and finding to my amazement that the base diameter of a sized case was not the same for all of them. By 4 or 5 thousandths. This is all I can remember - which one it was that was small has escaped from my little grey cells . . .

Now, I know that "small-base" dies are common for rounds that can go into automatic or self-loading weapons, but for the .30-30 ? ? ?

[Duckiller]

Nrut: Got used 30-30 Lyman dies recently at gun show. Size at rim= 0.415" at shouder= 0.395' . This is measured on free brass that I believe has been well used.

[Nrut]

uscra112 & Duckiller thanks for your replies...Looks like my Lee resizing die is oversized, for this rifle anyway...it works ok for lever actions that I have so I'll just keep it...
Floodgate sent me his Lyman handsizing die that barely allows me to used the once fired cases as the lever on the falling block cams over on closing.....I'll see how this works out with reloads next time I go to the range....:)

[38-55]

Hello Nrut,
Hey I just happen to be reloading 30-30's at the moment and my lee dies size as follows...
Base ( just forward of the rim/extraction grove ) .414-.415
shoulder- .397
Have ya tried it with other brass ? May just be the brass you got is slightly out of spec or is 'extra' springy... I'd be curious to know...
Stay safe
Calvin

[woody1]

Nrut, you might try annealing a few far enough back to catch the shoulder area and see if that helps to eliminate some springback. Regards, Woody