Got a .41 AE?

[dualsport]

Once in a while I bust out my .41 AE barrel for the Tanfoglio conversion. The gun is a TA90, great shooter with either 9mm or .41 AE. I'm wondering how many others have one, AND can't get ammo or brass! When you do find it it's a buck for an empty case. What if Hornady picked it up? Would you buy some? They load for some obscure guns, couldn't be any less demand for .41 AE than some of the stuff they sell. What about IMI bringing out a special run? They were all set up for it to begin with. How do we get Starline to get on board? They told me no way, not ever. Now I know I could just get a .40 S&W and have an almost as good cartridge, but that's not what I want. For now I scrounge my brass back up like a jealous maniac.

[ReloaderFred]

I have one, along with a good supply of factory ammunition and virgin brass.

Fred

[Moonie]

I had a friend that had one many years ago, I reloaded ammo for him at the time. I was distressed to learn he passed away last year, he wasn't that old...

[frankenfab]

I've always wanted one. I'm a sucker for the poor oddball orphan calibers.

[Gunslinger1911]

Ha ha - I'm also a sucker for odd ball calibers - 41 AE (conv bbl for P35) bought some brass from the last run Starline made.

400 Cor-Bon (conv bbl for 1911) - 45 acp necked down to .40 (pain to re-load !)

Haven't seen ammo or brass for 41AE in years !! I think your Tangfo and the Jerico(essentually same gun I believe) were just about the only guns so chambered. Bbls for P35 is all I remember for conversion.

Neat concept , was the 40 s&w before there was a 40s&w.

I load 210 swc from my 41 mag - really puts some "smack" to a Hi-Power !!

[bowfin]

Between my son and I, we have five .41 action express pistols (all EAA/ Tanfoglios) and a conversion kit each for a 1911 and a Browning Hi-Power.

Prices have shot through the roof on both brass and ammunition these last six months. I don't know if that is confined to just this cartridge or if the same could be said for others as well.

CDNN sells .41 action express conversion kits for $49.99. They are for EAA Witness pistols.

We have been fortunate to lay in a good supply of ammunition and brass.

[dualsport]

Ha ha - I'm also a sucker for odd ball calibers - 41 AE (conv bbl for P35) bought some brass from the last run Starline made.

400 Cor-Bon (conv bbl for 1911) - 45 acp necked down to .40 (pain to re-load !)

Haven't seen ammo or brass for 41AE in years !! I think your Tangfo and the Jerico(essentually same gun I believe) were just about the only guns so chambered. Bbls for P35 is all I remember for conversion.

Neat concept , was the 40 s&w before there was a 40s&w.

I load 210 swc from my 41 mag - really puts some "smack" to a Hi-Power !!

So Starline did make brass! Ah ha. That means they had the tooling. I'll keep my fingers crossed they make another run. I think of my .41 AE as a kind of .41 Special semi auto.

[matsu]

I sent my stash of .41AE to a friend in Ohio last 1000 round of samco 200gr I had

[ReloaderFred]

I don't believe Starline ever made .41 AE brass. I talked to them several years ago about making it and they told me they never had, and never would.

Speer used to make the .41 AE, but also told me they would never make it again. The only person I could get interested in it was Dan Scharch, when he owned Top Brass. He asked for 10 pieces of virgin brass and I sent it to him, but he decided there was more money to be made making 10mm brass instead. He's since sold the company.

Quality brass makes it, but only grudgingly, and only when they get an order for it. They said it pains them to turn $6.00 a pound brass into $2.00 a pound scrap when turning down the base to 9mm size.

The last company to make a sizable run was IMI, Isreal Military Industries, several years ago. The entire run was sold to Widener's, and sold out very quickly. IMI says they have no plans to make another run of it. My supply of virgin brass and factory loaded ammunition came from that run.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[rromeo]

I have a Jericho 941 with the 9mm and .41 barrels. In almost 20 years, I still have never fired the .41, and still have the box of ammo that came with the gun.

[Gunslinger1911]

ReloaderFred - you got me !!
I had to look at some cases - all IMI. Jeeze can't even remember things from 15 or so years ago - damn !!!

[Gunslinger1911]

Dang, I just looked at a box of Speer Lawman 180g i've had half of forever - guess what - the foam they use to cushion the bullet tips turns to mush after 15 years !!

I mean really, mush ! Kind of sticky, damn near impossible to get off the bullets !

Hmmm, learn something new every day !

[ReloaderFred]

Gunslinger,

When I first purchased a 9mm/.41 AE combo gun I searched high and low for brass and ammo. I contacted everyone that ever had anything to do with it, hoping they might have a stray bucket of brass tucked away in a back corner somewhere. It was about that time that IMI said they were going to make a short run of both brass and ammunition, and that it was all going to Widener's. As soon as it hit their website, I ordered 1,000 rounds of loaded ammunition and 2,000 rounds of primed brass. I've been offered as much as $80.00 a box for the loaded ammunition. I sold some of it, but the majority of it is still in my shop.

If you think things go bad after 15 years, wait until 68 years! My whole body is going to mush.........

At the match today, I shot like I was 20 years older than my age, with the exception of the last stage. I guess 1 out of 5 ain't bad........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[bowfin]

Dang, I just looked at a box of Speer Lawman 180g i've had half of forever - guess what - the foam they use to cushion the bullet tips turns to mush after 15 years !

I have found the same problem when I first opened my boxes. I called Speer, and they seemed to know of the problem, but they didn't offer any other information or fixes.

I ended up wiping each cartridge off with an alcohol pad.

By the way, those Speer .41 AE Lawman loads have a real impressive looking hollowpoint, but they have repeatedly shown zero expansion in both water and soft wood. Then again, I don't know if a .41 caliber bullet needs to expand much. They sure do penetrate.

I have both SAECO molds designed for the .41 AE. One is 175 grains and one is 195 grains.

I would buy a Jericho .41/9mm pistol pac if I could find one at a reasonable price.

[bowfin]

I've been offered as much as $80.00 a box for the loaded ammunition.

I picked up 2 boxes at a gun show two years ago for $9.00 a box. The guy said he would bring more the following day, and I did a package deal that netted me seven more boxes at $8.00 a box.

[ReloaderFred]

You did good! Quality Cartridge is making some, but only when they get an order. They're getting close to $100.00 for a box of loaded ammunition, and over $1.00 a round for new brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Gunslinger1911]

A dollar per piece of brass !! damn !!

I have about 250 - hoard em like gold (tarp on the ground at the range !).

[fcvan]

Reed's Ammunition & Research, LLC lists 170 and 210 grain loads at $75 a box, back order only. Midway lists brass at $62 for 50 but no back order.

Back when this cartridge came out I looked at getting a barrel from Barsto Precision for my S&W 459. At the time, they said it wouldn't fit. I was shooting a lot of .41 mag back then and even looked at getting a 170 grain mold. I started shooting and carrying a 1911 in .45 ACP and sold the 459. I carried the 1911 exclusively until my wife bought me a Glock 22C. 40 S&W pretty much killed the .41AE but enough interest might bring it back like the 38-40 and many other old cartridges. Frank

[SOFMatchstaff]

I believe I have supply of new primed IMI brass stashed somewhere under the bench, also a couple of P35 kits for the 41AE. If anyones serious about this round, drop me a PM and I'll see if I can find it.

This is my first post on this site, being a 41 addict it sorta jumped out at me. Did a run of 41 Avenger stuff years ago, then the AE caught my attention, played with it for a bit and then got wrapped around the Coonan pistols when they came out. Tooo many toys, so little time....

[bowfin]

For those of you (us) reloading and shooting the .41 Action Express, here is a group buy going on for a boolit I think will be a good one in this cartridge:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=152938

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/artsmom/411640HPs.jpg

[bobthenailer]

Try Quality Cartradge they list it @ $59.00 per 50 ct . in stock?
they are the vendor to Midway

[MikeS]

I have a Tanfoglio GT41 in 41AE. I have both of the SAECO moulds that were made for it, the 170gr and 200gr. So far I've only shot the 170gr boolit, and it shoots great. I have some IMI loaded cartridges as well, but I've never shot any of them yet. My solution to the lack of available brass was to make it from 40S&W brass. I know that technically the 40 brass is a bit shorter, and not the right diameter, but I had gotten some 40 cases when I bought some 45ACP brass, and some 40's were mixed in. I looked at the cases, measured them with a micrometer, and the fired cases were expanded to more than the 41AE's diameter! So I took a case, chucked it into a drill press, and using a file I trimmed the rim down to the correct size, then I loaded them (I don't recall the load details other than it was with the 170gr SAECO boolit) and took them to the range where they all fired great, in fact I couldn't tell the difference between ammo loaded into real 41AE brass (both IMI and Buffalo Arms), and the stuff loaded into converted 40S&W brass. I've since gotten about 100 40S&W fired brass that I've modified into 41AE and reloaded them 2 or 3 times with no problems.

I also got a 9mm barrel for the gun from a forum member here who was generous enough to give it to me at no cost, along with a 41AE magazine for the gun. When I had got the gun it came with a 9mm magazine that I was told would work for the 41AE, but it didn't, so it was a good thing that forum member gave me a proper magazine! I've since bought a couple more 41AE magazines from CDNN as they had them on sale for $16.00 Now I want to get a few more 9mm magazines, as it's kind of hard to shoot a match of any kind with only one magazine. I wouldn't want to shoot the 41AE cartridge in a match, as I would loose too much brass that way.

I also have a brand new Action Arms 41AE barrel for a 1911, unfortunately it's for a Commander, not government model, so I can't use it. I have a Taurus PT1911, and I've been thinking that perhaps I should try and find a commander length slide for it. I did just buy a 400 corbon barrel for my 1911, so perhaps I'll just try and sell the 41AE 1911 barrel, one gun shooting an orphan cartridge (41AE) is probably enough.

[Expat74]

I hope to get my Jericho the week after next.. some kind of a partial trade with a guy who wants to buy my Remmy 700. I found a die set as new on some classified ads board here in Switzerland and the guy said he had four IMI factory rounds left and 15 IMI once fired he'd throw in the box too.. kind enough of the guy.

I heard about someone reforming 7.62x39, trim to length and turn down the rim like you describe above. Someone else said .40 S&W would be not suitable to convert, but if you say, Mike, it worked, the better, I will try that too. The cases are almost as plenty (and free at the range) as 9mm.

BTW .40 S&W.. the Jericho is also available in this caliber. For the magazines, can I use these as spare in the Jericho even when "shooting" .41 AE? I mean not that I will ever have enough ammo to fill the mags to the top and have a blast, but just "in case".

Think I will also look into the Saeco molds..

[texassako]

I see another market here for Grumpa's niche brass business, especially now that he has a lathe.

[Expat74]

From the book: Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges:

98907

"Use factory brass".. why didn't we think about that before?

Anyway, 303 Savage PPU brass is available at a more reasonable, half the Quality Cartridge brass price, while double the amount of cases, in case someone wants to try, someone with a lathe.. [smilie=1:

[reed1911]

When we cannot get factory cases we use the .41 Mag and just turn the rim and trim, and ream the inside. Much less waste and cost than the .303.

[GRUMPA]

I see another market here for Grumpa's niche brass business, especially now that he has a lathe.

I don't have any plans to expand my line just yet. I'm still neck deep in 300BO brass orders and I still need to figure out a few things for the 25, 30, 32Rem brass which have to be Hydroformed. That's just part of it, I get requests for things all the time like 7.62x25 and the .401 for example. If it slows down I'll dive into other projects but 300BO brass orders are rather strong.

Edit: I just checked what Midway gets for those and all I have to say is they sure are proud of them at the price they want.

In order for me to make those I would need 41mag brass, die set, reamer and time. Then I would need to find the SAAMI drawing on them, that drawing in post 25 is OK but there's dimensions I need that aren't in the drawing. Then pricing.....that's always a toughie for me to figure when factory brass is over $1ea. Reaming I'm sure would need to be at a predetermined depth and I have no clue what the depth is. Top of the web maybe I don't know, but doing something like this isn't something you just wake up and think....I guess I'll whip out some 41AE cases.

[rromeo]

My wife has a 40 cal EAA Witness, and I use the Jericho 41 magazines in it. Presumably the opposite would work.
I hope to get my Jericho the week after next.. some kind of a partial trade with a guy who wants to buy my Remmy 700. I found a die set as new on some classified ads board here in Switzerland and the guy said he had four IMI factory rounds left and 15 IMI once fired he'd throw in the box too.. kind enough of the guy.

I heard about someone reforming 7.62x39, trim to length and turn down the rim like you describe above. Someone else said .40 S&W would be not suitable to convert, but if you say, Mike, it worked, the better, I will try that too. The cases are almost as plenty (and free at the range) as 9mm.

BTW .40 S&W.. the Jericho is also available in this caliber. For the magazines, can I use these as spare in the Jericho even when "shooting" .41 AE? I mean not that I will ever have enough ammo to fill the mags to the top and have a blast, but just "in case".

Think I will also look into the Saeco molds..

[GRUMPA]

Did some checking and 41Mag cases wont work because they use a Large primer were the 41AE uses a small primer. But I did have just a couple of 41mag cases and went out to the shop and did a couple.

98933

[reed1911]

The large pistol primer works just fine, you cannot use the same load data you worked up in the factory case with small primers, however, you would not do that in any event since you are now working with a case that has different ID's and would start from the beginning again anyhow.

[ReloaderFred]

I have about 500 virgin IMI .41 AE primed cases for .60 cents each, shipped, if anyone is interested in factory original brass in this caliber. Just PM me if interested.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Expat74]

Just back from the LGS where I got a barrel for my Jericho, .41AE. I was told I was the first in about 10 years to even ask for something in that caliber. Surprisingly he even had a magazine in .41 (with markings) lying around which I also pocketed. Good to know he has also a good load of spare parts for it.

What I noticed was the barrel is a "conventional" one with lands and grooves, while the 9mm Luger is polygonal.

Oh and.. I got in touch with PPU / Prvi Partizan, and they kindly replied .. unlike others. They said they will keep the caliber in mind for future product launches.

So, uhm, Write PPU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) www.prvipartizan.com

[Mohillbilly]

Never did get a Jericho but wanted , I liked the 9mm AE idea . That looked like a good way to make major . A .41 AE necked to 9 . Then came a .357 Sig barrel for my 92 Beretta , it scratched that itch ,I got a .40 &W slide, barrel , and magazines drop in ... I did find an Auto mag III , which was .30 Carbine , and , could be converted ( with a complete upper ) to 9mm Winmag , I have brass from Winchesters original run , and figured I just cut down some .223 cases when i need more . Now the .50 AE was a great idea too , I like my .50 Grizzly MK V . The Desert Eagle is no slouch either . My hunt for the grail is a .440 corbon barrel for either , .44 slug out of a .50 AE case , Whew !! ...... There were some Macs or what ever that could have 9 Mac ,9 luger, or 7.62 x25 / .30 Mauser . Wish I had gotten into that with a few extra barrels to do strange things with , 9 AE comes to mind , depending on barrel chamber thickness. I did the 400 Corbon out of a 1911A ...Like the man said " I'm a sucker for the poor oddball orphan calibers. " So many things to do , so little time ....... Think all this hotrodding to make a pistol shoot the equivalent of a 351 SL , or a 35 Marlin .....

[SOFMatchstaff]

Mohillbilly, it's like we fell off the same apple cart on opposite sides of the country. I just cant leave a good conversion un-tried. The AE wasnt the first, but it was the easier of the batch that has passed thru the shop. The 9mm mag in a 1911 38 super/9mm, loaded to wadcutter specs is a cheap and accurate route to a target paper puncher.

I just finished a P35 from a parts pile and its gonna be a dedicated 41ae, no hesitation on this one, its already had a good run as a 9 metermiller


ReloaderFred, are your cases some of the ones Evan was selling years ago with the red stained bases?

[ReloaderFred]

SOFMatchstaff,

No, my primed cases came from the last batch that IMI exported to the U.S., and were sold by Widener's. The batch they had sold out in about 3 days, and never made to their website. I was on the forum that IMI had at the time and they posted that the brass and ammunition had arrived at Widener's so I called and placed my order, though it took two order takers to finally find out they had it in stock.

I just sold 200 rounds of brass to a forum member, and I recently sold all my loaded .41 AE to another member. I still have several hundred of the primed brass left.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[casterofboolits]

Yup! Bought a 9mm/41 AE combo Tanfoglio imported by F.I.E. TZ75 Series 88. A friend used his CNC machining center to recut three Lyman four cavity moulds to produce a 41AE-165-TCBB boolit. I have a thousand rounds loaded and a thousand virgin brass on hand.

[Expat74]

So I was just sitting at the table having my morning coffee when the doorbell rang and the friendly postman handed me a heavy parcel.

Inside I found..

100107

These were probably the last commercially available here in Switzerland, but I will keep looking for them.. the shop was so lucky they sold it, they weren't even charging me any s&h.

Must .. control .. itch ..

:bigsmyl2:

[Springfield]

I have a Jericho 9/41 which has had a 9mmAE barrel in it for the last 15 years. Used to carry it as my duty weapon when I drove Armored Trucks. Great round, always fed perfectly in my gun. VERY loud in my loading, which drove a 115 grain bullet to 1700fps. Probably not within SAAMI specs, but it worked fine for me. Took a bit of experimenting to get one to work properly without lots of primer flow, though. Haven't shot it in a few years, hate losing the brass. A few times I have thought of selling my brass but every time I get it out and look at it I change my mind. Have another Tanfoglio in 40 S&W/357 Sig I shoot, not the same though. But the brass is cheap and available.

[Expat74]

Hi all,

Yes, I know, it's J-words (but I'm tooling up for swaging) .. thing is, over here, I am thankful for anything in .41 I can get my hands on.

I have the chance to get 500 x Sierra 8530, 220gr FPJ at a very, very .. very good price. About half the normal. I was immediately thinking about my Jericho and her feeding, but before I just grabbed the stuff, I remembered I read an article from Taffin about .41AE reloading and he had problems with OAL vs. feeding/belling the cartridge and magazine compatibility with heavier bullets than 200gr.

Did anyone use the above bullet before to reload in the .41AE and can give some input whether this is suitable or not regarding the above mentioned.

Thanks folks!

E.

[reed1911]

I cannot comment about the 220g JFP, however the 210g XTP and 210g GDHP work just fine. I would grab them and give it a shot, worst case you can still re-sell them here or else where and still make a profit on them.

[Expat74]

The Sierra's work fine if anyone cares ;) they were loaded rather mild due to the powders I had available and the factory IMI rounds I shot were significantly hotter than my reloads.

[rromeo]

I just bought 52 IMI fired cases, for $11. Now on to dies, RCBS and Redding have specific die sets for almost $200, and others say to use .41 Mag dies. I think I'll try the .41 Mag first, because I won't be shooting this a lot anyway.

[sargenv]

I had this crazy idea that the 41 AE brass would be kind of cool to use in a moon clipped 41 magnum 657.. With the size of the rim being rebated, it would be a good candidate for the Polymer RIMZ moon clips, but the maker of the RIMZ probably would charge me a small fortune to come up with something like that.. I guess they might be a good candidate for the new printing/creation method... :) I soon gave up on that endeavor when I found out how much the brass cost..

[MrBFR]

I don't have any but I do wonder if the 10mm concept had originally been designed as a .41 cal instead of .40 and also the .40 S&W were a .410" (that is if it would have been invented anyways considering the existence of the .41 AE at that time) and seeing the popularity of the .40 S&W today, I think it would have helped the .41 Magnums popularity, as it's one of my all time favorites. Going back to the development of the 10mm in the early 80's I wonder why .400" was chosen over the .410" as back then the only .400" would have been the 38-40 and it would seem to me that basing it off the .410" 41 Magnum would have made more sense with those bullets, at that point in time, probably being more abundant than .400" ones.