Freedom Arms Warning

[cbrick]

There has been a lot of FA bashing going on. Shooting revolver cast boolit groups like these with top end loads is proof positive of what a terrible, horrible company Freedom Arms is and what junk they produce.

Freedom Arms 10" 41 Mag. 10X Burris from the bench. 235 gr Leadheads GCTC @ 1520 fps. 5 shot, 150 meter group. The high shot was a called flier.

http://www.lasc.us/DSCN1478-8.jpg

Freedom Arms 9" 357 Mag. 10X Burris from the bench. RCBS 180 gr Silhouette @ 190 gr. @ 1525 fps. 5 shot, 150 meter group.

http://www.lasc.us/Feb2006.jpg

If FA would stop producing junk like has been discussed in other threads on this forum perhaps respectable groups could be shot with them. For that kind of money I expect better. http://www.lasc.us/smiley4.gif

Rick

[danski26]

Thank you for the warning. Your warning is genuine and has more facts in it than other "warnings" I have seen recently. I for one will heed your warning and only shoot my FA when I need extremely small groups.

[sundog]

Cbrick, good range report, but how do you call a flyer?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Very useful information, even if it is tongue-in-cheek. [smilie=1: :mrgreen:

I've long admired the Freedom Arms, but I must say their website developer needs some help... For example, I can't really determine what is what with their models, calibers, availability and real differences between models.

For example, it APPEARS as if the 97 is a smaller-framed pistol than the 83, but how much smaller? Can someone describe for me the difference, and if possible, what they feel like in the hand?

And, if Premier Grade and Field/Silhouette grade are made to the same manufacturing tolerances, and (it is implied) the only difference between grades is the finish and sights, why does FA only give a 1-yr limited warranty on most grades, but on the Premiur Grade, it's a Lifetime warrant, whereas all other grades are 1-yr warranty... If the quality of the materials and workmanship is the same, why the difference in warranty???

I seem to remember at one time, that the FA was the only production-gun that had carefully aligned and measured throat-to-barrel alignment. Is this still correct? How does FA handle/adjust-for hand/ratchet wear over time?

What I'm looking for in a Freedom Arms is a very accurate and reliable handgun that can be carried relatively easily, with good workmanship, accuracy and reliability. I would like a 5 or 6 inch barrel, 6 chambers in the cylinder, adjustable sights (with the option of replacing the front sight blade to a Keith gold-bar one), and 44 Magnum or Special caliber. (The Silhouette-grade sounds perfect - dull, non-reflective finish and adjustable sights, but that lifetime warranty on Premier sounds attractive and implies they are better-made mechanically...)

[cbrick]

sundog, When I fired that shot I messed up allowing the gun to move, then thought the follow through was poor also and thought I'd missed the target completely and said so. The guy watching through a spotting scope was looking at me like I was nuts, I looked at the group and there it was, out of the group but on the target. Less than a second of brain fade almost ruined my whole day.

[targetshootr]

For example, it APPEARS as if the 97 is a smaller-framed pistol than the 83, but how much smaller? Can someone describe for me the difference, and if possible, what they feel like in the hand?As a comparison, the 97 cylinder is slightly thinner and shorter than a Ruger mid frame 357 cylinder. Or a Colt SAA. But it's a lot more stout.

[onceabull]

cbrick: Rick, your findings are just IMPOSSIBLE,give that both of those revolvers were produced after the younger Mr.Baker took over !! and we KNOW the only thing he cares about,don't we ?? Over on the arab's board,things weren't quite as restrained as here,but then the infamous "Monte" checked in there to join the Freedom bashing....... Onceabull

[leftiye]

Actually, I don't think the threads about Freedom Arms here could be called bashing. Even as here on this thread, the reports (thread starters) have been factual. That is, a report of say barrel and throat diameters, or an experience with a patricular gun that wouldn't shoot. Or a bad experience with FA's customer service. These don't go away because other FA's are acceptable. Nor did Mr. Baker's lack of any real problem solving effort help much.

AND, we DO want to know what's what with all the various products, now don't we?

Inversely, there to me is little need to defend freedom arms, many of them are first rate (plus it doesn't make any real impact on the problem). Be that as it may, Freedom Arms must in the final analysis weather the storm, produce product worthy of their reputation, or suffer the consequences.

[cbrick]

AND, we DO want to know what's what with all the various products, now don't we?

Inversely, there to me is little need to defend freedom arms

My post is to show my experiences with FA revolvers far more than an attempt to defend FA. I agree, there is little need to defend them. Their record speaks for itself.

I have been buying, using and working up loads for FA's almost since the first 454 hit the market and the examples in my above post are typical. I have needed FA customer service only one time and it was exceptional, 1 1/2 weeks turn around including shipping time with no charges to me. To get this exceptional customer service took one phone call to FA (yes, I paid for the call).

The other posts here on FA are a far cry from know what's what with all the various products, now don't we?.. Anyone not familair with FA reading those posts would certainly have the impression that both the company and it's products are the worst possible. Nothing further from the truth could be true. In every one of those posts that I read I had the feeling that there was a side to this that wasn't being explained and it soon became a personal agenda against FA.

I am not defending FA or myself here, just posting my experiences with an outstanding company and it's product.

Rick

[chevyiron420]

well guy's, here is my opinion. freedom makes some real nice accurate, beautiful stuff, and as there is no problem everything is great. when there is something wrong they may take care of it, they may not. what they base there dicision is unknown to me because in my case it didnt have anything to do with weather they screwed up or not. to me it doesnt matter what product it is, small or large, its how they treat a customer. they turned there back on me when they were clearly at falt and didnt care and still dont. i reciently p.m.ed him and re-explained the problem. i gave him my email and invited him to talk it over. he wouldnt even email. that tells me that a customer would have to sue them to get service. i cant afford to do buisness with people like that.-phil

[cbrick]

what they base there dicision is unknown to me because in my case it didnt have anything to do with weather they screwed up or not.


they turned there back on me when they were clearly at falt and didnt care and still dont. i reciently p.m.ed him and re-explained the problem. i gave him my email and invited him to talk it over. he wouldnt even email. that tells me that a customer would have to sue them to get service. i cant afford to do buisness with people like that.-phil

Now what's wrong with this picture? No countin for an agenda I guess.

This is just what I have been talking about with these posts, agenda driven bias for who knows whatever reason.

Rick

[Glen]

Rick --

I don't know how you put up with guns that shoot like that! Trash like that ought to be thrown away. Heck, I'll even provide the trash can for you to pitch them out in!

[cbrick]

Thanks for the offer Glen but I'm still trying to get FA to get them to shoot well. FA however doesn't seem too interested in my dilema and I might have to sue them. :rolleyes:

They seem to think that groups like that at 150 meters are within specs. Can you imagine that? http://www.lasc.us/smiley4.gif

Rick

[leftiye]

As someone once said (psychology professor?)- funny how our emotions color our perceptions.

[doghawg]

I've been following these threads with interest because I was planning to buy a FA. When the original poster took a couple of personal shots at Bob Baker a while back and followed that with numerous "errors" in his posts.....well, the credibility of said poster evaporated for me. I suspect there are other issues in question here besides FA quality.

And.....I'm still gonna buy one and am sure it'll shoot just fine.

[Lloyd Smale]

good luck with the law suit. ive never seen fa gurantee accurcy or dimentions anywhere in there advertising. If i would have sued ruger everytime i got a slug from them id be in court till i died. Best bet is to ride it out and pray that dealing in a decent way with them resolves it or pawning the gun. Personaly i think your throwing your money away going to court and are just asking for more stress in your life.

[cbrick]

Lloyd, that was a joke.

Look at the groups again and I think you'll get it http://www.lasc.us/smiley4.gif.

Rick

[BruceB]

By coincidence, there's a thread running on the General Gun Discussion Board over at www.thehighroad.org concerning a lawsuit against Freedom Arms. Thread title says "(OH) man sues firearms company after leg amputated".

Seems some klutz managed to put a .454 bullet through his leg from a holstered FA revolver (in through the calf, out through the shinbone...betcha THAT smarted some!).

Just as in the anti-Ruger single-action lawsuits a generation back, which brought forth the "New Models", it seems that single-actions are just tooooo danged COMPLEX for today's sub-intelligentsia....notwithstanding their being around since about 1836.

Sheesh.

[chevyiron420]

Now what's wrong with this picture? No countin for an agenda I guess.

This is just what I have been talking about with these posts, agenda driven bias for who knows whatever reason.

Rick

of coarse i have an agenda, and its to get then to fix my gun, and stand behind there product, and sure im biased, if parts flew off your gun after fireing your first normal factory round, and freedom talked to you like they did me you would be biased too. there is no secret voo-doo going on here with me, im just warning people that if they have a problem its a crapshoot weather or not freedom will have any interest in covering your gun. my problem with freedom isnt realy about specs and the like, its about customer service. any company can produce something with a problem i dont care who they are, its how they handle the problem that im concered with.
take it for what its worth guy's your companionship is more important to me than this, so ill drop it now.--phil

[cbrick]

Well Phil, your post didn't mention any of that but it did have a very clear contradiction it:

in my case it didnt have anything to do with weather they screwed up or not.

And then,

they turned there back on me when they were clearly at falt.

Sure is strange how FA with most people eagerly and happily take care of problems (like with me) and with others just as clearly refuse to. Strange indeed. Sure does tend to get a guy thinking there's a good deal more to the story than comes out in these threads.

The only instance of FA refusing to pay for a problem that I personally have is when a friend of mine bought a used FA. He got it cheap because the previous owner had really butchered it when he got a bullet lodged in the barrel and used a screw driver to pound it out severely gouging the bore. FA refused to repair this field grade model 83 under the premiere grade lifetime warranty and FA also stated that it was mis-use. Imagine that? My friend is furious with FA over charging him for a new barrel and he gets mad at me every time I tell him he's nuts.

Now I do have a legitimate gripe with FA service but I would imagine that any mfg. would be about the same. My silhouette model 357 has an outstanding trigger job, it breaks clean, crisp with zero creep at 10 ounces. This is a competition gun used in matches only and will never be carried in the field but should I send the gun back to FA for any problem unrelated to the trigger I would still get back a lawyer proof 5 pound trigger.

Rick

[chevyiron420]

hey Rick, im sorry, im a very poor writer. what i mean by that is they were very obviously at falt on my deal. they new it and so did i, but it didnt matter to them at all. im trying to say they must not base there dicisions on what to cover, on weather it was there fault or not. maybe they roll the dice?? phil:castmine: