Question on S&W 19

[Jim]

I've been told that, even though S&W model 19s are chambered for .357 magnum, they should not be fed a regular diet of such. I'm told they're rated for .38 Spl. all day long, but are intended to fire .357 Magnum only occasionally.

I have an old one in 4 inch nickle and would like to get it back in the game. What can I feed it on a regular basis?

Somebody school me, what's the RIGHT answer?

[KCSO]

For regular use don't go over +p 38 special loads, although a lot of 357 factory loads are at about that now. I liked 10.5 of 2400 for my 6" and this load didn't stress it a lot either. In the old days shooting PPC with practice and matches about 20,000 rounds of 38's with a mix of 357 duty loads would shoot a M19 pretty loose.

[376Steyr]

The M19 was designed back in the days when police trained and qualified with 38 wadcutters, then loaded with magnums while on duty. When departments started training with magnum loads the M19s began to loosen up quicker. To make matters worse, when the 125 jacketed magnum loads became popular the dreaded "barrel crack" began to appear; with the barrels cracking at the bottom of the forcing cone.
For a long and happy life with your M19, shoot as much 38 Special as you want and shoot magnums sparingly and then only with 158 grain loads. For a magnum load, I recommend Skeeter's load of the 358156 seated to the lower groove in .38 cases, with 13.5 gr of 2400 for around 1200 fps.

[Dan Cash]

I have a 19-2 snub nose that has seen an untold number of 158 grain and 173 grain cast magnum loads from 1977 to present. It seems as tight as when I bought it. It has not digested more than 12 125 grain rounds since I have had it. They are death to the M 19.
Check out loads for the .38-44 or old time super police loads. I am shooting such loads exclusively in my K and N fram .357s. My load is 10 gr. 2400 under a 358429 bullet that drops 173-175 grains in a relatively soft alloy. It works well and kicks as hard as I want for a service load.

[9.3X62AL]

FWIW.......the "Skeeter Load" mentioned above by 376 Steyr matches up closely with the W-W 357 Mag 158 JHP load. Mine are put up in 357 cases, and crimped in the upper groove.

My old shop has done away with the W-W 158 grain load, and adopted the Federal 125 grain K-Frame Krackers. I guess I'll just have to muddle through with the 4" 686 now. Aw, shucks.

About the time that S&W started making their J-frame revolvers in 357 Magnum, SAAMI standards for 357 Magnum pressures were reduced significantly.......from the 42K PSI level down to 36K PSI. This can only help extend the service life of the K-frame 357s, though the Federal 125 grain load runs within SAAMI specs and still can cause damage. I don't recall seeing or hearing about a K-frame 357 being hurt by our issue W-W 158 JHPs during the 20+ years I helped with quals and training. For felon repellant, I think one load is about as good as another in 357 Magnum.

[Walt]

The HOT 125 JHP defense loads are what burnt up the M19s forcing cone back in the day. Stay away from the super high pressure light weight bullet loads and you'll be fine.

[MtGun44]

Try 5 gr of Unique, or a bit more if you like, under a 358429. Great load, fun to shoot,
accurate and to the sights for many fixed sight .38 Spls. Load this in .357 cases to keep
the chambers clean.

Bill

[2 dogs]

Looks like all good advice. The hot stuff in my experience will be very hard on the gun.

[Jim]

Tell me if I got this right: As long as I stay in .38 Spl. to .38 Spl. +P pressures, I'm ok, is that correct?

[Olevern]

Tell me if I got this right: As long as I stay in .38 Spl. to .38 Spl. +P pressures, I'm ok, is that correct?

Occasional .357 mag loads (such as for hunting) are O.K., but I would stay away from the light (125 grain) loads at .357 mag. velocities.

These are fine old guns and will last forever with reasonable loads up to and including +P 38 spl. loads.

I stick to 158 grain SWC boolits with mine, with occasional full wadcutter boolits lightly loaded for plinkiing and for the kids.

The major problem with these has been regular use of the hot 125 grain jacketed bullets.

If you feel the need to go there, trade up to an "L" frame (686 model)

[GBertolet]

Yes, Use the 38's for regular use, and save the magnums for special occasions. Do this and your 19 will last a long time.

[Jim]

THAT'S the answer I was lookin' for!

Thank ya', guys!

[MtGun44]

Load in .357 brass - keeps from building up hard crud in the chamber ahead
of the shorter .38 Spl brass.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Load in .357 brass - keeps from building up hard crud in the chamber ahead
of the shorter .38 Spl brass.

Bill

One easy route to 38 Special or +P pressures and ballistics in 357 Mag cases is to use 38 Special or +P data +10% in the Mag brass. I'm like Bill, I don't like the crud rings that can build up in 357 or 44 Magnum chambers from firing short brass in the long chambers.

On another tangent......the 110 and 125 grain jacketed bullets have never shown me the intrinsic accuracy of the 140 grain-or-heavier 38/357 slugs. They are certainly accurate enough for felon repellant at arm's length or across a room, but the longer bullets just shoot better. My belief is that the longer bullets are able to be fully engraved into the forcing cone while still being supported at the bullet base by the cylinder throat--the shorter/lighter bullets may lack this capability to varying extents. Just my dos centavos.

[ovendoctor]

the 38=150 Keith loaded in to 357 mag cases works great with target loads
I bought ours in 1980 from the Flint Mi police dept wen they updated
as long as ya don't ''hot rod'' it the 19 will last a life time
its just like anything if ya beat on it, it will fail

Doc.

[9.3X62AL]

Roger that. I have 100 Starline cases loaded with Lyman #358477 atop 6.0 grains of Herco, and these are downright pleasant to play with......unless yer a VARMINT.

[pmeisel]

Jim, I have been using mine for years with a mix of full house 357 Magnum, and a "working load" that is hotter than 38 +P but down a little from max load 357. But -- I only use 158 grain and 180 grain bullets.

The 125s and lighter with full loads create the excess wear to the forcing cones.

Betcha Skeeter shot tons of 158s through his model 19s.

[jwp475]

When the M-19 gained the reputation for shooting loose with a steady diet af mag loads, the SAAMI average pressure was about 42,000 PSI plus or minus a bit. Today the 357 average is 36,000 PSI or there abouts.

I shoot nothing lighter than 158 grains and have had no problem

[bdutro]

I shoot nothing lighter than 158 grains and have had no problem

QFT

To my knowledge, sparse though it is, the M19 issues centered more around the 125gr magnum loads and not magnum loads in general.

[Jim]

QFT

To my knowledge, sparse though it is, the M19 issues centered more around the 125gr magnum loads and not magnum loads in general.

That's not the first time I've heard that. I think I'll just feed it 158s at about +P level. I won't beat up the gun or my elbows.

[MasS&W]

Let me un-muddy the water a bit. It has nothing to do with the pressures, but everything to do with bullet weight and velocity. A light bullet does not bridge the gap between the chamber and the forcing cone enough to prevent gas blow by and hardening of the forcing cone. Compounding this, the light bullets moving at high speed hit the bottom of the cone disproportionately from the top, due to recoil and the bullets inertia. Keep your bullet weights above 158 grains, and your loads within safe limits. Preferably, use 160+ bullets (I find they like heavy bullets better, anyhow). Never, ever, ever, use 110 gr, or 125 gr, as these are NOTORIOUS for ending your guns life very, very quickly. Save those for N and L frames, those forcing cones won't ever crack, come hell or high water.

[Jim]

Very well explained, thank you, Sir!

[MasS&W]

I'm the proud owner of a model 13, did some intense-ish research when my friend told me about this. Thank you :D

[Crash_Corrigan]

I shoot a lot. I am older than dirt and I no longer enjoy recoil at all. Even with an N frame Smith in 41 Magnum I keep the loadings light. The steel or paper targets do not know the difference.

I shoot a mild 45 Colt loading in my Ruger BH. Ditto on .44 Special loadings for both my Charter Arms Bulldog 2.5" tubed revolter and my Ruger Bisley BH with the 5.5" tube.

I shoot my 1911 with as light a loading as I can get away with. Ditto on my 9 MM loadings.

As far as loadings for my Smith 586 w/6" tube I also keep the loadings light.

I have factory loaded rounds ready for all the above for carry use but I do not shoot them very often.

If I want pain then I shoot my buddy's 500 Smith Magnum with the 450 gr slugs. One cylinder full is enuf for me.

[FergusonTO35]

I think the K-frame and .38 Special +P are pistol perfection exemplified. If you plan to shoot a lot of magnums of any sort you would probably be better off getting a larger gun designed for them from the ground up.

[rromeo]

Do .38 Special 125 gr +p loads affect K frames in the same manner?

[MasS&W]

To my knowledge, I have never heard of anyone managing to bust up a .38 K frame with non-magnum loads. Keep it under 18.5K PSI, and I doubt you will hurt anything.

[rromeo]

Thanks. I have a 65 and I shoot the high end of +p. I don't currently load anything but 158s, but it would be nice to broaden my horizon.

[km101]

With my model 19's I have fed them a steady diet of .38 ammo in std. and +P, and .357 ammo loaded to the same specs. But I try to use nothing lighter than 140 gr. bullets either cast or jacketed. I use facory 158 gr JHP for "serious social work". Stay AWAY from the 110 and 125 gr. jacketed bullets and you Mdl 19 will have a long and happy life! Mine have been going strong for 30+ years on this fodder.
The Mdl 19 Combat Magnum is one of the finest revolvers ever made! Treat it right and it will outlast you!

[9.3X62AL]

About 7-8 years back, my old agency had to switch out the long-used 110 grain JHP +P 38 Specials, because Winchester quit selling them. The back-stop was the Remington 125 grain JHP +P, and it remains the issue 38 Special load at present.

I called a staffer at the Academy in response to a question asked above concerning stress induced by these loads. He told me that to date none of the agency or personally-owned 38 Special revolvers currently in use (over 400) have shown any ammo-related issues involving the Rem 125 +Ps. The majority of the revolvers are J-frame S&Ws, BTW.

[fecmech]

I shoot a lot. I am older than dirt and I no longer enjoy recoil at all.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Any more all I want is a bullet with enough energy to move the steel around a bit to show the hits. I would not worry about a "K" frame with any level of .38 spl loading.