38-55 with home made gunpowder

[Nobade]

Today I tried out my JES 38-55 rebored 336 with some home made powder, and was pleasantly surprised that it hit to the same point from 50M to 200M as my usual KIK loads. I didn't shoot it over the chronograph to see what it's really doing, but it seemed to hit the steel swingers plenty hard. Groups were the same as usual, about 3 inches at 200M. The home made powder is not as dense as factory made, I can only get 34 grains of it in the case compared to 43 grains of commercial. So it can't be going as fast but it doesn't seem to matter at least as far as I tried it today. I'm sure at longer ranges it would start to fall behind but that rifle just gets used for cowboy silhouette so 200M is the max anyhow.

Now I need to load up another box full and shoot it in next month's cowboy silhouette match to see how I can do. This is just too much fun, making the boolits, the lube, and the gun powder.

[John Boy]

*** was pleasantly surprised that it hit to the same point from 50m to 200m as my usual kik loads.
*** the home made powder is not as dense as factory made, i can only get 34 grains of it in the case compared to 43 grains of commercial.

hugh?

[1874Sharps]

Nobade,

Great job! The BP I made and shot in various guns was not quite as energetic as KIK or Goex, etc., and like your BP, was not as dense. Also, my BP left a bit more fouling than the commercial stuff but worked just great in my shotgun for CAS matches. I think if I milled it a bit more the above problems would level out a bit. How was fouling with your BP?

[looseprojectile]

You thinking Heffner?
I have not made any of my own black yet.
This is a good testamonial to the fact it can be done at home.
I gotta get with the program.


Life is good

[Nobade]

Nobade,

Great job! The BP I made and shot in various guns was not quite as energetic as KIK or Goex, etc., and like your BP, was not as dense. Also, my BP left a bit more fouling than the commercial stuff but worked just great in my shotgun for CAS matches. I think if I milled it a bit more the above problems would level out a bit. How was fouling with your BP?

I don't have a working ball mill yet. I am anxiously looking forward to getting one going, and anticipate being able to make much more energetic powder once that is done. This powder is mixed by passing it repeatedly through a 200 mesh screen, then wet with water and dextrin, kneaded like dough, and granulated through a kitchen colander.

Curiously, the fouling seems to be less than with commercial powder. Possibly because there isn't as much there to burn, but so far no problem. I ran 50 rounds of it through my Ruger 44 spl last weekend and had no problems with foul out with that. When I try shooting a 40 round match in this heat we'll see how the theory holds up...

As for John Boy's question, like I said I only shot to 200M. I would assume as the range increases the difference would become more apparent. The velocity in the 44 spl. was noticeably lower than with KIK, but I didn't see a whole lot of difference in the rifle today. It's certainly close enough for cowboy silhouette, but those targets are pretty big.

[Boz330]

You might try corning it, that will make it denser. I think the ball mill is damned near a must for good powder. From my 40-65 I was getting 1200fps from 50gr of HM and that was a case full compressed .250" under a 405gr boolit. My normal competition load is 65gr of Swiss 2F under the same boolit which gives 1275fps.
I tried getting more powder in the case by doing several compressions with smaller amounts of powder but the groups went to hell in a handbasket.

Bob

[Nobade]

Yep, a ball mill is about top of my list of things to get going. And a H-frame press for making pucks is right on up there. Learning this stuff is great fun - just like learning to paper patch boolits, this is a evolution to go through in steps. But thanks to the wonderful help of folks on this forum, this one seems to be going a lot faster!

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement, keep 'em coming!

[Springfield]

Nobde: do you weigh your charges?

[Freightman]

I do have a ball mill and it does make a difference! I also ad 5% Dextrin as a binder makes the grain better and it doesn't turn to powder with handling. I shoot it in my 45/70 and right at 1200 fps with a 500gr boolit, I get 70gr in if I compress it 1/2 full then when I finish with a compression die. Yes I weigh every charge as it isn't consistent without it. I also used willow charcoal.

[bigted]

MAN!!!!!!! just GREAT!!! i knew better then to read this thread.

[Boz330]

Yep, a ball mill is about top of my list of things to get going. And a H-frame press for making pucks is right on up there. Learning this stuff is great fun - just like learning to paper patch boolits, this is a evolution to go through in steps. But thanks to the wonderful help of folks on this forum, this one seems to be going a lot faster!

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement, keep 'em coming!

Nobade, you don't have to have an H-frame to make the pucks. This simple set up will make them just fine. Big trick is to not get the green meal too wet just a little lumpy will work fine, otherwise you have a black mess oozing out of the PVC. I use a 50/50 water, alcohol mix to wet the meal.

A hydraulic press may make the powder denser though, but you have to get it out of the die afterwords.

Bob

[Nobade]

That's a good idea with the vise! At least I could press it some to see how that works. I'll give that a try.

Have you tried using red gum instead of dextrin? I haven't yet but the writeups at Skylighter seem to indicate it works well.

And to respond to Springfield, I did try weighing charges a bit but it didn't seem to matter whether I did that or just used the Lee dipper. Basically stuff the case full, compress it to the desired height, and put a bullet on top. Drop tube didn't seem to matter either, like it does with commercial properly granulated powder.

[I'll Make Mine]

Everything I've read says red gum is better than dextrin for binding powder, but the advantage of dextrin is you can make it in your oven (most likely without even upsetting the wife).

Get a one pound box of corn starch at the grocery store. Spread it evenly on a cookie sheet (doesn't matter if you use one of the wife's; this stuff is food going in and edible coming out, and will wash off more readily than burnt-on cookie dough) and put it in the oven at 400º F. Check it every half hour, and stir it up to turn it over so it heats evenly. When it has turned a golden brown (likely between one and two hours), somewhat lighter than a perfect biscuit, pull it out of the oven and scoop it into an airtight container, preferably while still hot.

Clean up behind yourself, for marital bliss (and to avoid being banned from the kitchen in future).

The dextrin produced above will work anywhere dextrin is called for, and unless your electric rates are incredibly high, it's a lot cheaper than buying it.

[cal50]

I would omit the dextrin or any binder. It will only slow your burn rate. I use a good ball mill and a 20 ton press and die to compress my powder before corning/ graining and never needed a binder. Use a good charcoal and ball mill with a press die& you get a very good BP.

[rbuck351]

I've been using a 12 ton press with a die and squeezing it to the max and the puck comes out pretty hard and almost dry. I then just chop it up pretty fine and I'm getting almost IMR BP speeds from my Pietta 44. My charcoal isn't the best, it's just unburned pieces of cotton wood charcoal from the wood stove. I'm going to try some better charcoal to see if it makes any difference.

[Boz330]

As Cal 50 said, with the pressed puck you don't need the binder. It is a good idea if you are running it through a screen. I have some corned that I made last summer and it hasn't broken down at all.
I had a huge difference in velocities in a cartridge between the screened and corned powder. The corned was almost 200fps faster. In a ML there is plenty of space to get the weight you need for velocity but not so much in a cartridge. The other thing is that you aren't shooting a RB but a heavy for caliber slug.

Bob

[cal50]

I'm going to try some better charcoal to see if it makes any difference.



Charcoal is the life blood of BP........


http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html

[cal50]

A nice write up on cooking your own.....

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal.html


I have a willow tree I cut down a year back and plan on cooking some charcoal from it. The willow I had used before was purchased and my homemade BP rivals any Goex or Elephant brand I have purchased.