Any Machinists out there?

[John in WI]

I have been trying, without much luck, to drill perfectly centered hollow points in some semi and full wadcutters. Mostly I'm getting wander and runnout and ended up throwing the whole bunch back into the production pot.

I would really like to get my mould professionally converted, but I am a "broke college student" and $80 or so for that service is out of reach at the moment.

I read a while ago on the web about a guy who modified his mold by machining a piece of steel to the exact dimensions of this boolit. Then he used a lathe to bore a hole EXACTLY centered through it.

I thought this was clever--he then used the hole through the steel boolit to index and align drilling the hole through his mold, so the HP pin would be exactly axial with the boolit. He bored the hole, then made a pretty standard looking HP pin to fit it.

(of course if I could afford a mill, I would afford to get my mold professionally converted!)

Do you think I could do a similar conversion, using a regular cast boolit instead of steel? I have an aluminum Lee mold, so it seems like if I could get the hole started in the right direction it would be easy!

Lacking a mill, I was thinking I could chuck the boolit in a drill press after using the same press to align a drill bit and clamping it into a machinist vice. In theory, if the boolit was turning axially the hole would come out perfect even if the drill bit was slightly off center.

I'm pretty good with (basic) fabrication and was able to use these primitive tools to build an AK a while back. Of course the AK isn't known for it's perfect tolerances!

Has anyone done a home HP conversion? I'd be interested to hear successes as well as failures. The mould was pretty cheap, but it makes nice boolits so I would hate to destroy it doing something stupid. (Like taking a drill press to it probably is!)

[GLL]

Contact Buckshot ! He will HP your mold for significantly less than $80 and do an outstanding job ! He has done a dozen for me.

http://www.fototime.com/48F5B23791A6340/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/764FE0DF38E319D/standard.jpg

Jerry

[John in WI]

Thanks for the head's up Jerry--Buckshot is a member of Cast Boolits?

I would hate to do it myself and either end up with a really sub-standard result, or worse yet, converting a 2 cavity mold into a 1 or 0 cavity mold

[GRUMPA]

Click this link it will take you to Buckshots profile page and then PM him.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=67

[runfiverun]

yeah he is.
just search him out in the members list at the top of this page.
send him a p.m.
i'd bet he is close to half.

[John in WI]

Thanks for the link. I just sent him a PM and will be interested to see what he says.

Maybe you guys have thoughts on this. What I'm hoping for is something along the lines of the old "backwards HBWC". I like the huge expansion, but would prefer it to be a little tamer. Also, that the skirt didn't blow off and obstruct the barrel.

So I'm thinking a WC with a wide, deep hollow, but leaving quite a bit more "meat" than the standard HBWC has. I suspect it would work well, but was also wondering if having the hollow pyramid shaped would help even more. Sort of selectively weakening the nose of the boolit along 4 lines but keeping enough meat in the longitudinal direction to hold it together.

[theperfessor]

If you get your mold HP'ed, you can try different pin sizes and shapes. The pentagonal cross section pins are supposed to help expansion by creating fracture lines to peel back into petals.

[MtGun44]

If you do it with a drill press, the odds of disaster are quite high. Not impossible
to get it right, but improbable.

Bill

[John in WI]

Yeah--I did some more reading, and a drill press is NOT the tool for this sort of thing. If there was a way to ensure that the base of the mold was exactly perpendicular with the boolit cavity, then maybe. But if it's off, even by a little, and there is ANY wander, then I'm dead in the water.

I think it's a bad idea. Maybe I'll try it if the molds get worn or damaged in the future. I'd hate to ruin the mold as it's been making me a LOT of excellent quality boolits already. From the website I saw, using the steel insert to align the HP pin was a very clever idea--but I don't have a lathe and I can't really see another way.

[GLL]

John:

Here is a WC mold Buckshot modified for me. He made a couple different pins with conical and hemispherical profiles .

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/E92CDCFCEF2173B/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F361B8224E257B5/standard.jpg

[ClassicCannons]

If you give me the exact dia of your mold with a mic i can turn some steel for a drill bushings for you for free let me know the size you want the hole to be. Then put the bushing in the die tighten her up and drill the hole. Since your only doing 2 hole's the bushing doesn't need to be hardened.same as you mentioned in your post but steel PM me your address. If you feel funny about me doing it for free just make a donation to the forum thanks Austin

Or if you have a set of drills take one that fits in the mold perfectly and put your mold in the vise and line them up in to the cavity if the molds are perpendicular with the outsides of the mold it should work. then clamp the vise to the table and use the drill size you desire. But make certain that the table is securely locked in place the drill that's the same size as the mold cavity should go into the cavity freely but if the mold is cast aluminum it may be off from the cavity to the side and you may have to shim it up until it goes in smoothly with out hitting the mold sides. If that works do the next cavity

[John in WI]

John:

Here is a WC mold Buckshot modified for me. He made a couple different pins with conical and hemispherical profiles .

Jerry


Wow Jerry--that is EXACTLY the profile I was imagining.

I can't tell what caliber that is, but do you suppose something along those lines would work out well in a .38spl (or hopefully a .357 if funds ever allow)? I was thinking with a good, soft alloy it should hit like a sledge hammer. Kind of like the backwards HBWC, but not nearly as fragile.

[HORNET]

According to post#1, it's an aluminum LEE mold guys. There are going to be problems with the hardened steel cross-pins used for vertical alignment. Those pins do NOT drill well and one would probably need to be shortened to clear an HP pin.
If you could talk ol' Buckshot into it, you could remove both pins, install one of the pin/reciever sets used in the 6-banger Lees, and HP BOTH cavities, maybe using something like the NOE RG setup.THAT would be nifty...

[GLL]

I missed the "LEE" in your first post !
Is it a 2-cavity? If so, I would not bother with the expense of having it converted to HP. I have a decent old LYMAN WC mold I will send you to "play with". Drop me a PM.

Jerry

[imashooter2]

Here's a sticky that you may find of interest...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=123677

[John in WI]

I just got word back from Buckshot, and sure enough, with a 2 cavity Lee it's not going to work on account of the pins (as mentioned above).

Apparently this isn't a problem with a 6 cavity mold (which I should have bought--but was saving money on the 2 cavity). Of course, at this point I would just buy the boolits but they don't seem to be commercially available either!

Thanks for all the information and links--I will continue to read up on it and figure something out. I think it would be something worth pursuing.

[Buckshot]

..............I clicked on this thread simply because of the title, Any Machinists out there? .

It is VERY interesting just HOW many folks who are interested in firearms are also either machinists by trade, or are or have been hobby machinists, or who BECOME hobby machinists simply because of their infatuation with firearms. Without a doubt there are many fascinating aspects to firearms that are attractive to the person who also leans toward the love of making stuff.

Of the 3 main machinist forums out there I've frequented (2 aimed more toward home/hobby guys and one toward pros) they all 3 have a firearms forum. There are even a couple firearms BB's that have a dedicated machining forum :-) The two subjects are very intermingled and interrelated. I recall several years ago on the Home Shop Machinist's BB, someone asked a question as to the relationship and the thread went on for over 30 pages :mrgreen:

Another interesting issue with those so afflicted is that why in the world would I drive to Lowes or Home Depot and buy something for $19.95 when I can spend ALL FREAKING DAY making it myself for nothing[smilie=w: Plus I have half the tools I own involved in it's creation, that I'm too tired to put away until tomorrow when I'm done?

..............Buckshot

[Rangefinder]

Another interesting issue with those so afflicted is that why in the world would I drive to Lowes or Home Depot and buy something for $19.95 when I can spend ALL FREAKING DAY making it myself for nothing Plus I have half the tools I own involved in it's creation, that I'm too tired to put away until tomorrow when I'm done?

LMAO!!!! Man, why is it so difficult for my wife to grasp such pure, straight-forward, simply logic??? It makes such perfect sense to me!

[.22-10-45]

Hello, John in WI. I think Forester still sells hollowpointing drill for their case trimmer..loaded round is held in collet & drill is fed in to depth.

[Elkins45]

I bought an old South Bend metal lathe ($500) so I could reduce the headspace on a Mauser barrel. The spindle bore is too small to chuck it through, so I spent another $100 on a steady rest. I've probably spent another $250 on reamers, chucks, centers and other various tooling and another $100 on stock. I've also picked up several used books on machining from Amazon.

So far I have managed to produce M dies for my 35 Whelen, 358 Win, 300 AAC and 44 mag. I've also made several push thru sizing dies dies and one 'nose squeezers' die to swage down a bore riding nose from a bullet I designed poorly.ive hollow pointed a Lee 45 mold to use with sabots in my muzzle loader and I'm about to make a .495 sizer so I can squeeze down REAL bullet to paper patch them.

Next up is turning a D bit for boring out an old single cavity Lee rifle mold to a smooth sided .352 paper patch boolet for 35 rifle.

Imagine the money I've saved! All these neat toys for only about $900! What a bargain :)

[Elkins45]

Yeah--I did some more reading, and a drill press is NOT the tool for this sort of thing. If there was a way to ensure that the base of the mold was exactly perpendicular with the boolit cavity, then maybe. But if it's off, even by a little, and there is ANY wander, then I'm dead in the water.

Are we talking about handgun boolets here? I think it would be an interesting experiment to cast up some boolets, then purpously drill a cavity a few thousandths off center and do a 'before and after' comparison. I wonder how much slop a hollow point can tolerate before the accuracy really falls apart?

[Nobade]

I bought an old South Bend metal lathe ($500) so I could reduce the headspace on a Mauser barrel. The spindle bore is too small to chuck it through, so I spent another $100 on a steady rest. I've probably spent another $250 on reamers, chucks, centers and other various tooling and another $100 on stock. I've also picked up several used books on machining from Amazon.

So far I have managed to produce M dies for my 35 Whelen, 358 Win, 300 AAC and 44 mag. I've also made several push thru sizing dies dies and one 'nose squeezers' die to swage down a bore riding nose from a bullet I designed poorly.ive hollow pointed a Lee 45 mold to use with sabots in my muzzle loader and I'm about to make a .495 sizer so I can squeeze down REAL bullet to paper patch them.

Next up is turning a D bit for boring out an old single cavity Lee rifle mold to a smooth sided .352 paper patch boolet for 35 rifle.

Imagine the money I've saved! All these neat toys for only about $900! What a bargain :)


Haha - this is why I started working as a gunsmith. I had been a machinist for many years but love playing with guns. So many shops, especially government ones, won't let you work on guns. So along comes this gun shop that needs help. It's not that I particularly get off on building one Rem 700 after another, but I get to use the tools to build my own rifles and try out new ideas. Plus it sure beats sitting in front of a CNC machine all day watching the same part be made over and over....

And what Classic Cannons mentioned, using a bushing to hollow point a mould, worked well for me. The only rub was having the bushing spin in the cavity and mark the nose a bit. But otherwise I put a hole dead center in a #311410 by using just the drill press and letting the vise float, just sitting on the table.

[Wayne Smith]

As I'm numerically dyslexic and hopelessly ADHD I will rely on Rick (Buckshot) and Austin (Classic Cannons) to do my machining! I learned long ago to do what I'm good at and leave the rest to those who are good at those things.

[deltaenterprizes]

..............I clicked on this thread simply because of the title, Any Machinists out there? .

It is VERY interesting just HOW many folks who are interested in firearms are also either machinists by trade, or are or have been hobby machinists, or who BECOME hobby machinists simply because of their infatuation with firearms. Without a doubt there are many fascinating aspects to firearms that are attractive to the person who also leans toward the love of making stuff.

Of the 3 main machinist forums out there I've frequented (2 aimed more toward home/hobby guys and one toward pros) they all 3 have a firearms forum. There are even a couple firearms BB's that have a dedicated machining forum :-) The two subjects are very intermingled and interrelated. I recall several years ago on the Home Shop Machinist's BB, someone asked a question as to the relationship and the thread went on for over 30 pages :mrgreen:

Another interesting issue with those so afflicted is that why in the world would I drive to Lowes or Home Depot and buy something for $19.95 when I can spend ALL FREAKING DAY making it myself for nothing[smilie=w: Plus I have half the tools I own involved in it's creation, that I'm too tired to put away until tomorrow when I'm done?

..............Buckshot

I resemble that remark! I went to machinist school to be able to repair my boolit casting equipment and work on guns.